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[Gotchaye]

I don't think the GOP has a problem voting for a minority they view as an uncle tom (not saying Rubio is one, saying this might be how some in the GOP view him).

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they'll jump on any opportunity to interpret liberal criticism of Rubio or of Republicans nominating Rubio as a claim that Rubio is an Uncle Tom. They're not going to pass up an opportunity to get on their high horses about reverse racism and real racists and so on.

Remember two things:

1. They've been convincing themselves for years that Obama's only popular because he's black and that Obama constantly "plays the race card" to evade legitimate questions/criticism.

2. They will not scruple to do something that they think is wrong if they see political advantage in it. Or at least they're very good about reversing their political principles when convenient, or they won't scruple to justify it as "turnabout is fair play" or similar.

Therefore, expect them to try trotting out really ham-handed parodies of race card style defenses of almost any criticism of Rubio, if he is nominated. Conservative commentary about Palin and women is probably a good preview, except they're even crazier now.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

I look forward to seeing Rubio send his white rich heterosexual male Christian family loving VP to various southern states as they realize racists ain't got time to vote for a brown person.

 

[Clevinger]

You're acting as if Romney went around and wore his Mormonism on his sleeve. It was a miniscule part of the election. Rubio can't white out his skin color or the topics he's going to want to discuss to hold onto any Hispanic vote.

Rubio has white skin and no accent whatsoever. He'll do fine with the GOP electorate.

 

[fallagin]

Therefore, expect them to try trotting out really ham-handed parodies of race card style defenses of almost any criticism of Rubio, if he is nominated. Conservative commentary about Palin and women is probably a good preview, except they're even crazier now.

Oh yeah, I remember that. They seriously have no shame when it comes to this kind of shit. They use everything at their disposal to screw over their opponents.

 

[Black Mamba]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that they'll jump on any opportunity to interpret liberal criticism of Rubio or of Republicans nominating Rubio as a claim that Rubio is an Uncle Tom. They're not going to pass up an opportunity to get on their high horses about reverse racism and real racists and so on.

Remember two things:

1. They've been convincing themselves for years that Obama's only popular because he's black and that Obama constantly "plays the race card" to evade legitimate questions/criticism.

2. They will not scruple to do something that they think is wrong if they see political advantage in it. Or at least they're very good about reversing their political principles when convenient, or they won't scruple to justify it as "turnabout is fair play" or similar.

Therefore, expect them to try trotting out really ham-handed parodies of race card style defenses of almost any criticism of Rubio, if he is nominated. Conservative commentary about Palin and women is probably a good preview, except they're even crazier now.

So long as the democrats and non-right wing media doesn't mention the whole "only trotting him out to get hispanic votes" they'll be fine. They have to ignore the topic completely.

No Sununus please.

Fox has done such a good job convincing old white people that hispanics and other 'others' are taking over the country. Do you really think they'll vote for one of those very 'others' in the primary? Maybe in Florida, but just about everywhere else Rubio is screwed.

Yeah, they'll vote for one of their own regardless. If Obama was black, a lot of those racist GOPers would be saying "yeah, but he's one of the good kind" or something racist like it behind closed doors.

The racism of today is a bit different than of 50 years ago. Not arguing it's not as bad, just it's a different form. The GOP can hold its nose and vote if it is in their best interest. Romney was their man, after all, and they don't like Mormons or NE liberals but he was their best chance.

Yeah, but the fact that he might not have a hard time int he primaries spells his doom later. If it's anything remotely near what we just witnessed, that's the whole problem. The primaries push people to the right. Right wing candidates aren't going to win anymore, because they say stupid things (in the primaries) and believe stupid things.

So I'm not saying he'll have a problem in the primary. I'm saying the primary will be the problem if he gets to the general election. And it will be for probably anyone that comes out of it, still.

yeah, but it's what Rubio believes. I don't think he has to move in the primaries, he's already there. His problems are already there.

 

[Gotchaye]

Yeah, they'll vote for one of their own regardless. If Obama was black, a lot of those racist GOPers would be saying "yeah, but he's one of the good kind" or something racist like it behind closed doors.

The racism of today is a bit different than of 50 years ago. Not arguing it's not as bad, just it's a different form. The GOP can hold its nose and vote if it is in their best interest. Romney was their man, after all, and they don't like Mormons or NE liberals but he was their best chance.

Uhh...

But yes, I agree completely. Republicans love black Republicans. It proves they're not racist. At least as long as the black Republican toes the line. Black Republicans are held to a stricter standard of conservatism, and any deviation is going to start a criticism/resentment spiral that ends up at Colin Powell.

Also - Racism today: not as bad as 50 years ago.

 

[Link]

Rubio is also firmly in the Tea Party camp, and by 2016, I expect the Tea Party and the GOP to to be completely fractured.

 

[Black Mamba]

Uhh...

But yes, I agree completely. Republicans love black Republicans. It proves they're not racist. At least as long as the black Republican toes the line. Black Republicans are held to a stricter standard of conservatism, and any deviation is going to start a criticism/resentment spiral that ends up at Colin Powell.

haha!

I meant if he was republican.

But yeah they loved Hermain Cain. If he was viable, they'd vote for him.

If the GOP thinks they can fix their latino problem with Rubio, they're going to be in for a rude awakening.

At the end of the day the 2 main issues will always be the economy and the ideas presented. Then you factor in likability. The GOP can pretend Obama won because he is black all they want, but if anything he won despite being black.

 

[Aaron]

Uhh...

But yes, I agree completely. Republicans love black Republicans. It proves they're not racist. At least as long as the black Republican toes the line. Black Republicans are held to a stricter standard of conservatism, and any deviation is going to start a criticism/resentment spiral that ends up at Colin Powell.

Also - Racism today: not as bad as 50 years ago.

There's a big difference between liking your 'black friend,' and electing him president. Cain's very short lived boost in the primaries was a combination of factors that was never going to last, even if he was air tight. Unless the Republican establishment fully backs Rubio, I expect he'll be gutted and tossed away during the primaries.

 

[jamesinclair]

Rubio has white skin and no accent whatsoever. He'll do fine with the GOP electorate.

His name literally means blonde/white

 

[Ecotic]

Seeing Fox News having to correct itself by firing Morris and seeing Republican shills like Morris having to admit their party's problems publicly in interviews just feels both strange and amazing to see us living in a time of liberal ascendancy. Obama's coalition just feels so much on the offensive it's becoming easy to take it for granted. It's hard to believe 8 years ago Bush and Fox News basically had this country in submission. Looking back I can't tell if the tenuous coalition Bush put together was actually winning the argument or if the Dick Cheney strategy of getting on camera and frightening America into removing their souls from their bodies like a limp sexual assault victim was working, but this country has definitely changed.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Dennis Kucinich is a Fox News contributor now? O_O

 

[Kali Ma]

The republicans have no problems accepting black republicans. We see this in the U.S. Supreme Court with Clarence Thomas. Plenty of cities have black republican mayors. I think the majority of republicans will have a hard time with a Mexican republican right now. Maybe in 10-20 years we might see one in power.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Dennis Kucinich is a Fox News contributor now? O_O

He fits their mould. Physically unattractive and easy to pigeonhole and make fun of. His actual opinions are secondary to the archetype of a feeble looking moonbat.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You're acting as if Romney went around and wore his Mormonism on his sleeve. It was a miniscule part of the election. Rubio can't white out his skin color or the topics he's going to want to discuss to hold onto any Hispanic vote.

A majority of republicans would have voted for Hermain Cain in 2012, give me a break. Rubio will probably have trouble in South Carolina but the other primary states will be fine with him, given his record of no votes.

 

[Tim-E]

If Rubio can survive a primary, the base that identifies as Republican will vote for him regardless in a general. Give me a break with that "all Republicans are racist" garbage. There's no doubt that much of the hatred toward Obama is race-related, but the Republican base will fall in line in a Presidential election. Saying that Republicans are against Obama simply because of race is the equivalent of conservatives equating Obama to Hitler. It's a disingenuous, lazy argument.

The republicans have no problems accepting black republicans. We see this in the U.S. Supreme Court with Clarence Thomas. Plenty of cities have black republican mayors. I think the majority of republicans will have a hard time with a Mexican republican right now. Maybe in 10-20 years we might see one in power.

Rubio is not Mexican.

 

[HylianTom]

Seeing Fox News having to correct itself by firing Morris and seeing Republican shills like Morris having to admit their party's problems publicly in interviews just feels both strange and amazing to see us living in a time of liberal ascendancy. Obama's coalition just feels so much on the offensive it's becoming easy to take it for granted. It's hard to believe 8 years ago Bush and Fox News basically had this country in submission. Looking back I can't tell if the tenuous coalition Bush put together was actually winning the argument or if the Dick Cheney strategy of getting on camera and frightening America into removing their souls from their bodies like a limp sexual assault victim was working, but this country has definitely changed.

It's changed, and it's scaring the absolute hell out of old, white, Republican America.

 

[Farmboy]

A majority of republicans would have voted for Hermain Cain in 2012, give me a break. Rubio will probably have trouble in South Carolina but the other primary states will be fine with him, given his record of no votes.

In fairness, Cain would've been up against another black man. But I agree that an insignificant number of Republicans would have a big enough problem with Rubio's race to cross over. More would probably have a problem with Christie's perceived lack of conservativism, I'd guess.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Republicans have shown for decades that they have no problem voting for minorities. Their governors are more diverse than democrat ones by a long shot, they've elected two Hispanic senators, multiple Hispanic congressmen, etc. It's disingenuous to suggest they couldn't possibly nominate a minority, mere months after they nominated a Mormom which IMO was far more unlikely given the Bible Belt.

It's like people aren't paying attention. Rubio has defused right wing radio/media in a way I've never seen before. The same people that torpedoed W Bush's plan are calling Rubio brilliant, thoughtful, worth respect, etc; he has them eating out his hand over a plan that looks almost exactly like the Bus and Obama plans. That's monumental. I'm fine with him throwing pot shots at Obama through the process as a means of covering his right flank. Republicans are openly discussing a pathway to citizenship yet Rush is not driving the opposition, in fact so far he has largely been irrelevant as Rubio unites establishment and activist types; even Steve King supports his plan. Things might change, but right now the party is completely behind Rubio. I can't think of a single issue senator Obama united anyone on, or led on - the same goes for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and other young senators who ran for president. He's making a major power play, and pretending like it doesn't matter would be stupid.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So, apparently, Rubio is delivering the rebuttal to Obama's STOU Speech.

Setting him up for failure, lol

 

[Tim-E]

Republicans have shown for decades that they have no problem voting for minorities. Their governors are more diverse than democrat ones by a long shot, they've elected two Hispanic senators, multiple Hispanic congressmen, etc. It's disingenuous to suggest they couldn't possibly nominate a minority, mere months after they nominated a Mormom which IMO was far more unlikely given the Bible Belt.

It's like people aren't paying attention. Rubio has defused right wing radio/media in a way I've never seen before. The same people that torpedoed W Bush's plan are calling Rubio brilliant, thoughtful, worth respect, etc; he has them eating out his hand over a plan that looks almost exactly like the Bus and Obama plans. That's monumental. I'm fine with him throwing pot shots at Obama through the process as a means of covering his right flank. Republicans are openly discussing a pathway to citizenship yet Rush is not driving the opposition, in fact so far he has largely been irrelevant as Rubio unites establishment and activist types; even Steve King supports his plan. Things might change, but right now the party is completely behind Rubio. I can't think of a single issue senator Obama united anyone on, or led on - the same goes for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and other young senators who ran for president. He's making a major power play, and pretending like it doesn't matter would be stupid.

Agreed 100%. While people like Christie have been attacking the party and getting flack from conservatives, Rubio is running with immigration reform and hardly anyone seems to be fighting it at this point. Establishment types realize that they can't fight this issue anymore, might as well try and embrace it now so they can look as good as possible in four years. While I still think that Democrats will still get a majority of Latino voters in the future, this is a smart play by the party that I think is going to help at least a little bit.

So, apparently, Rubio is delivering the rebuttal to Obama's STOU Speech.

Setting him up for failure, lol

Rubio is not the greatest speaker, but he's miles better than someone like Jindal.

 

[kehs]

Rubio ain't getting shit after he gives the SOTU response in spanish.

 

[codhand]

I can't think of a single issue senator Obama united anyone on, or led on - the same goes for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and other young senators who ran for president. He's making a major power play, and pretending like it doesn't matter would be stupid.

That's a horrible idea Mr. President!

Why Mr. Rubio, that is a brilliant idea!



Also, Bams, hated Senate, he felt he couldn't lead from that position, and he was right.

 

[Tim-E]

Rubio ain't getting shit after he gives the SOTU response in spanish.

Republicans are going to eat it up completely and use it to make them look like they are the party of diversity. It's going to work like a charm in terms of making Rubio look good to his party.

 

[codhand]

If Republican's strategy is to do what Democrats want, but pretend that it isn't, I'm OK wit that. Whatever helps them sleep at night.

 

[kehs]

Republicans are going to eat it up completely and use it to make them look like they are the party of diversity. It's going to work like a charm in terms of making Rubio look good to his party.

The same republicans clammering about having to learn english to be part of the country?

Sounds like a tough sell.

 

[Tim-E]

The same republicans clammering about having to learn english to be part of the country?

Sounds like a tough sell.

There's going to be a divide between what the party wants and what the base wants, but ultimately the party knows they have to move forward with this if they want to stay relevant. There may be a few stragglers still whining about it in a few years, but the party is going to have to embrace it if they want to be viable nationally.

 

[Marvie_3]

Agreed 100%. While people like Christie have been attacking the party and getting flack from conservatives, Rubio is running with immigration reform and hardly anyone seems to be fighting it at this point. Establishment types realize that they can't fight this issue anymore, might as well try and embrace it now so they can look as good as possible in four years. While I still think that Democrats will still get a majority of Latino voters in the future, this is a smart play by the party that I think is going to help at least a little bit.



Rubio is not the greatest speaker, but he's miles better than someone like Jindal.

There are few people who aren't better than Jindal.

 

[TacticalFox88]

That's a horrible idea Mr. President!

Why Mr. Rubio, that is a brilliant idea!



Also, Bams, hated Senate, he felt he couldn't lead from that position, and he was right.

Damn, now that I think about it...you're right.

In hindsight, were Obama still in the Senate, he'd be, most likely, pretty average, if not completely awful.

He was a junior senator who EVERYONE thought he was in over his head.

Honestly, who SERIOUSLY believed back in February of '07 that he had a serious shot at the Nomination, let alone that'd he go on and make history?

 

[PhoenixDark]

That's a horrible idea Mr. President!

Why Mr. Rubio, that is a brilliant idea!



Also, Bams, hated Senate, he felt he couldn't lead from that position, and he was right.

Because he wasn't interested in doing grind work. He did some good things with Lugar and Hagel but one could argue that was largely about raising his profile for a presidential run. Pete Rouse was planning a run from the minute Obama got into the senate, and most of Obama's actions reflected that (including all the present votes).

I expect Booker to act the same way when he gets to the senate.

 

[codhand]

Because he wasn't interested in doing grind work. He did some good things with Lugar and Hagel but one could argue that was largely about raising his profile for a presidential run. Pete Rouse was planning a run from the minute Obama got into the senate, and most of Obama's actions reflected that (including all the present votes).

I expect Booker to act the same way when he gets to the senate.

Agree on every count, wasn't it brilliant? I mean knowing the country was ready? Seriously. He did Senate, like going through motions, and was like you know what? I can't even pretend anymore, I'm out, I should've skipped this step entirely.

 

[kehs]

Panetta testifying about benghazi benghazi benghazi.

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Top-De...n-US-Consulate-Attack-in-Libya/10737437878-1/

 

[GhaleonEB]

Because he wasn't interested in doing grind work. He did some good things with Lugar and Hagel but one could argue that was largely about raising his profile for a presidential run. Pete Rouse was planning a run from the minute Obama got into the senate, and most of Obama's actions reflected that (including all the present votes).

I expect Booker to act the same way when he gets to the senate.

His work on nuclear containment in the Senate was because it was a topic he's been interested in for decades prior to being in the Senate, he did a lot of work on it in his college years as well. He clearly was moving up fast and was very ambitious, but don't sell him that short.

 

[XenodudeX]

Riight TIME

 

[PhoenixDark]

His work on nuclear containment in the Senate was because it was a topic he's been interested in for decades prior to being in the Senate, he did a lot of work on it in his college years as well. He clearly was moving up fast and was very ambitious, but don't sell him that short.

Got evidence? Not doubting you, I've just never heard that before. Rouse have him a list of pet projects including campaign finance reform, I never got the impression he truly cared about them.

 

[ISOM]

Riight TIME

That rubio cover would make more sense if it had a question mark.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Got evidence? Not doubting you, I've just never heard that before. Rouse have him a list of pet projects including campaign finance reform, I never got the impression he truly cared about them.

Here's a 2009 NYT piece.

Obama’s Youth Shaped His Nuclear-Free Vision

In the depths of the cold war, in 1983, a senior at Columbia University wrote in a campus newsmagazine, Sundial, about the vision of “a nuclear free world.” He railed against discussions of “first- versus second-strike capabilities” that “suit the military-industrial interests” with their “billion-dollar erector sets,” and agitated for the elimination of global arsenals holding tens of thousands of deadly warheads.

The student was Barack Obama, and he was clearly trying to sort out his thoughts. In the conclusion, he denounced “the twisted logic of which we are a part today” and praised student efforts to realize “the possibility of a decent world.” But his article, “Breaking the War Mentality,” which only recently has been rediscovered, said little about how to achieve the utopian dream.

He was writing and talking about eliminating nuclear weapons as far back as 1983. The piece kind of cobbles together his work on the subject from then through the Senate to the start of his first term. It's just one of the first I found on Google, but I remember reading several along those lines during the 2008 election. It's something he's been involved in or displayed passion about for over 20 years. It led me to believe his work on nuclear material in the Senate was born of genuine interest, even if it was also self-serving of his presidential ambitions.

In particular, the bit in the opening of that story, "....agitated for the elimination of global arsenals holding tens of thousands of deadly warheads," can be seen in Obama's push for New START as President, 25 years later.

 

[kehs]

Senator Ayotee is trying soooo hard to pin benghazi directly on Obama, lol.

e: Senator Grahm: How long did you talk to the president for....exactly

 

[Gotchaye]

It's like people aren't paying attention. Rubio has defused right wing radio/media in a way I've never seen before. The same people that torpedoed W Bush's plan are calling Rubio brilliant, thoughtful, worth respect, etc; he has them eating out his hand over a plan that looks almost exactly like the Bus and Obama plans. That's monumental. I'm fine with him throwing pot shots at Obama through the process as a means of covering his right flank. Republicans are openly discussing a pathway to citizenship yet Rush is not driving the opposition, in fact so far he has largely been irrelevant as Rubio unites establishment and activist types; even Steve King supports his plan. Things might change, but right now the party is completely behind Rubio. I can't think of a single issue senator Obama united anyone on, or led on - the same goes for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and other young senators who ran for president. He's making a major power play, and pretending like it doesn't matter would be stupid.

I think that's more because of the election than because of Rubio, although certainly Rubio benefits nationally by being the face of GOP moderation on immigration.

However, I don't see that the base will necessarily go along with this. Steve King is crazy, but he's still got an eye on Republicans' prospects nationally. It's going to be very easy for a Rick Santorum type (someone who doesn't have to govern right now) to run a primary campaign against Rubio once Democrats start campaigning on the same immigration reform bill Republicans voted for, in 2016 if not sooner. When the perceived necessity of immigration reform has passed, Republicans who voted for it may have to distance themselves from it in much the way Romney had to run from health care reform.

Plus Fox News and Limbaugh and the like will have a lot of reason to focus on how Obama is intentionally failing to execute the enforcement provisions and is only interested in bringing hordes of illegals across the border, and this will likely sour the base's opinion of the reform as a whole, and at least make them think of Rubio as a patsy.

 

[empty vessel]

Edit: yeah, about the whole drone memo thing, finally read it all up, fuck, congress need to man the fuck up and slap the white house.
The executive branch has gone mad.
This is bigger than the fucking debt ceiling.
Edit2: fuck lawyers, seriously.

I would support impeachment for it. There is partisan lesser-evilism and then there is inexcusable. This falls on the latter side of the line for me.

 

[Gotchaye]

I would support impeachment for it. There is partisan lesser-evilism and then there is inexcusable. This falls on the latter side of the line for me.

Yeah, I suppose I'm with you there.

So, questions:

If in the House, do you vote to impeach if you're the swing vote and everyone else voting to impeach is doing so because of Obama's assaults on the second amendment?

If in the Senate, do you vote to convict...

 

[Chichikov]

I would support impeachment for it. There is partisan lesser-evilism and then there is inexcusable. This falls on the latter side of the line for me.

As would I, though I think the better solution is to have sequel to the War Powers Resolution, maybe we can call War Powers Resolution 2: Tokyo (moral) Drift.

This should not be a partisan issue, I think most people would agree that we had some sketchy presidents in our history(they might disagree with who is on that list, but I think everybody hate/afraid of someone), this is not a power we should entrust with whoever wins the white house.
It's also un-American and unconstitutional, almost as bad as requiring background checks in gun shows.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm really pleased that Fox News has declined so much. It seems that the people are finally starting to realize the bullshit it spews. It truly is nothing but a propaganda station.

My grandfather voted democratic for the first time in 2008... Years before, him making you sit down and watch O'Reilly was like the passage to manhood.

I imagine there's a lot of conservatives with principles like him out there who cannot support the Republican Party as it is now.

As would I, though I think the better solution is to have sequel to the War Powers Resolution, maybe we can call War Powers Resolution 2: Tokyo (moral) Drift.

This should not be a partisan issue, I think most people would agree that we had some sketchy presidents in our history(they might disagree with who is on that list, but I think everybody hate/afraid of someone), this is not a power we should entrust with whoever wins the white house.
It's also un-American and unconstitutional, almost as bad as requiring background checks in gun shows.

How is justifying indiscriminate killing of citizens the same as making sure everyone double-checks that a loony is not getting a lethal weapon?

 

[airmangataosenai]

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Riight TIME

Too soon.

 

[Aaron Strife]

In fairness, there's nothing about buses in the Constitution.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Rubio might be bald by 2015 lol

 

[Link]

Riight TIME

The Taylor Kitsch of politics.

 

[gcubed]

How is justifying indiscriminate killing of citizens the same as making sure everyone double-checks that a loony is not getting a lethal weapon?

i think he was joking about the petty shit that has congress up in arms compared to this level of power run amok.

 

[Fuchsdh]

i think he was joking about the petty shit that has congress up in arms compared to this level of power run amok.

Ok, I mostly only lurk so I'm not dialed in to people's sarcasm