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[QuiteWhittle]

Doesn't Obama have fourteen people on stage everytime he makes a speech in the East Wing?

They are always people directly affected by the issue at hand and have specifically spoke before about it.

 

[Acheron]

I have this West Wing fantasy of Obama framing the debt ceiling as economic hostage taking from day one, and saying day one he won't sign anything but a clean bill and actually holding firm. Every day he uses his bully pulpit: "America does not negotiate with terrorists." Every day Democrats are on message saying the same thing.



Fantasies are nice.

The West Wing is not representative of reality, I don't know why so many expect Democratic presidents to measure up against Sorkin's cartoon characters.

 

[Officerrob]

So is it true, no deal was made? I cant watch the video as I'm at work.

Deal is not final

 

[Averon]

So is it true, no deal was made? I cant watch the video as I'm at work.

Got to pass the House.

 

[Clevinger]

The West Wing is not representative of reality, I don't know why so many expect Democratic presidents to measure up against Sorkin's cartoon characters.

You must have missed the word "fantasy."

 

[kingkitty]

We gotta get those 2t in spending cuts in there to even it all out. So deal isn't final yet.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Who is in the audience? "I'm gonna be president for the next 4 years" *erupts into applause and cheering

 

[Y2Kev]

Meh, it's gonna pass the House. :\

 

[pigeon]

The West Wing is not representative of reality, I don't know why so many expect Democratic presidents to measure up against Sorkin's cartoon characters.

Yglesias had a great series of tweets last week about how if Bartlett were real liberals would've freaked the fuck out about all his absurd compromises.

 

[el retorno]

Actually I'm a fan of this now. Sorry for the freakout roller coaster. I just fear now republicans are gonna see the fact that they've given up taxes for future spending cuts that won't happen are going to cancel this.

 

[RDreamer]

Ah, I see, he's already framing things for the next fight and any fight after that revenue from the wealthy has to come with anything and everything.

 

[The Librarian]

Obama's making it harder for a deal to be made. https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/285820795295526912

 

[HerbertFish]

Wow, that was terrible.

 

[slit]

Actually I'm a fan of this now. Sorry for the freakout roller coaster. I just fear now republicans are gonna see the fact that they've given up taxes for future spending cuts that won't happen are going to cancel this.

Why? What changed your mind?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Obama's making it harder for a deal to be made. https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/285820795295526912

McConnell wants an excuse to scuttle a deal.

 

[RDreamer]

Obama's making it harder for a deal to be made. https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/285820795295526912

Yeah this'll work for the Republicans. President comes out seeming reasonable and caring, and then Republicans come out foaming at the mouth. Good luck with that lol

 

[The Librarian]

Actually I'm a fan of this now. Sorry for the freakout roller coaster. I just fear now republicans are gonna see the fact that they've given up taxes for future spending cuts that won't happen are going to cancel this.

What changed your mind?

Yeah this'll work for the Republicans. President comes out seeming reasonable and caring, and then Republicans come out foaming at the mouth. Good luck with that lol

Either way they lose, which I think is the point.

 

[B-Dubs]

Obama's making it harder for a deal to be made. https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/285820795295526912

Isn't this the deal that turtle agreed to?

 

[el retorno]

Obama's making it harder for a deal to be made. https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/285820795295526912

I think thats bs and they are just reading this and realizing they're never gonna get their cuts and making up excuses to scuttle the deal

What changed your mind?

The boehner quote that if you don't do taxes and spending at the same time spending never gets cut. I think its true. It just made me realized I'm only freaked out about some future possibility that actually never has happened. I mean we didn't even get cuts out of the debt ceiling debate we got a deadline for cuts plus a few minor ones. Congress doesn't actually want to cut spending

With this deal all we get for sure is more taxes

 

[Fragamemnon]

reality check:

- Obama insists that there is no deal right now. The info from the Senate GOP piped through Rebecca Berg and co. has always been a bit fuzzy compared to reality in the past. No one in the GOP wants to negotiate after we go over the cliff because their hand is so much weaker, I am thinking that the currently discussed numbers are part of the same game they have been playing for weeks.

- No bill gets through the House without Obama's blessing because w/o it Dems won't vote for it and Boehner can't get the votes for anything right now.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Obama is an idiot. What the fuck was that?

 

[Synth_floyd]

Obama's bargaining position to the GOP should be "We can do a deal now or we can do a deal in a week when you have less power than you do now." Nothing bad will happen if taxes go up for 1 week.

 

[The Librarian]

Obama is an idiot. What the fuck was that?

Helping ensure that no matter what happens, Republicans get the blame.

 

[Incognito]

that was a very strange message and presentation by obama. i'm really confounded at what he was attempting to accomplish.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Helping ensure that no matter what happens, Republicans get the blame.

They already will, every poll shows that. His behavior makes no sense, especially in light of Biden doing all the work

 

[Chichikov]

I think that's a sound tactic, make them break the Norquist pledge now, then deal with it more seriously once you have a new congress while still retaining the upper policy hand by not raising the taxes on the rich as much as you promised during the election.

Obama's bargaining position to the GOP should be "We can do a deal now or we can do a deal in a week when you have less power than you do now." Nothing bad will happen if taxes go up for 1 week.

Taxes are not the issue, congress will fall over itself to re-cut them.
It's the spending that worries me.
Though I'm honestly not even sure how it will play out in practical terms.

 

[Black Republican]

E double not liking the deal

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/31/conservatives-should-kill-this-deal/

 

[el retorno]

I think that's a sound tactic, make them break the Norquist pledge now, then deal with it more seriously once you have a new congress while still retaining the upper policy hand by not raising the taxes on the rich as much as you promised during the election.

This is how I'm beginning to see it. I think this actually differs a lot from other caves. They're not "giving up" anything. Just not getting every thing they wanted.

E double not liking the deal

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/31/conservatives-should-kill-this-deal/

And exactly why I changed my mind

 

[TacticalFox88]

I still can't decide if Obama's caving or doing eleven dimensional chess.

 

[HerbertFish]

that was a very strange message and presentation by obama. i'm really confounded at what he was attempting to accomplish.

It was bizarre. He just made a hostile political environment more hostile.


And apparently he's not working with Biden or vice versa.

 

[pigeon]

Obama's bargaining position to the GOP should be "We can do a deal now or we can do a deal in a week when you have less power than you do now." Nothing bad will happen if taxes go up for 1 week.

This is only relevant to recalcitrant GOP reps, none of whom actually matter right now. The negotiations are already proceeding from a post-cliff framework, that's why $800 billion in revenue unaccompanied by any spending cuts is the starting position.

 

[Aaron Strife]

E double not liking the deal

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/31/conservatives-should-kill-this-deal/

Let's pass it then

 

[Chichikov]

This is how I'm beginning to see it. I think this actually differs a lot from other caves. They're not "giving up" anything. Just not getting every thing they wanted.

I think breaking the Norquist pledge is going to prove much like anal sex.
Hurt a lot at first, but after a while, you get used to it.

 

[Jackben]

I still can't decide if Obama's caving or doing eleven dimensional chess.

This is what I always think.

 

[The Librarian]

E double not liking the deal

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/31/conservatives-should-kill-this-deal/

I can totally see why, so far this deal:

-Raises at least 600 billion in revenue
-Has no entitlement cuts
-Has no spending cuts
-About 100 billion in stimulative tax policies (continuation)

 

[slit]

E double not liking the deal

http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/31/conservatives-should-kill-this-deal/

Well, now all the Libs will love it.

 

[B-Dubs]

I still can't decide if Obama's caving or doing eleven dimensional chess.

I honestly have no idea anymore. 12 dimensional chess confirmed?

 

[el retorno]

I can totally see why, so far this deal:

-Raises at least 600 billion in revenue
-Has no entitlement cuts
-Has no spending cuts
-About 100 billion in stimulative tax policies (continuation)

I think they're gonna realize this and stop the deal

 

[Black Mamba]

Bit busy. Anyone got a link to details of supposed deal. Or summary from someone unbiased such as pigeon? Thanks!

 

[RDreamer]

I still can't decide if Obama's caving or doing eleven dimensional chess.

11th dimensional caving

 

[Frank the Great]

Guys, if the deal is a few small tax raises on the rich and no spending cuts, it is a good deal. Fucking let Republicans push for spending cuts in three months. What cuts have they ever been able to name? They will just continue to act like children, appear to hold the country hostage, and poison their own brand. Meanwhile Obama and the Dems look like adults for compromising before the new year.

Shit, let them keep it up until 2014. Who cares? Democrats can only benefit from the tea party's kamikaze anti-spending tactics. The American people don't really want spending cuts, so if Republicans want to keep pushing for them every time the debt ceiling comes up, let them. Something has got to give eventually; they will either have to start naming cuts (which is a poison pill for them) or they will have to give it up.

edit: And if the deal has 100 billion in stimulus, even better.

 

[pigeon]

I just read Team of Rivals and was struck by the fact that Lincoln was accused of being a spineless conciliator and moving too slowly every time he did anything. You guys are playing right into Obama's hands here.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

The only thing I can make of this is that there are apparently some bad things to going over this cliff that Obama sees but no one else does...

Aghhhhhhhhh damn it, folding again ugh

 

[el retorno]

https://twitter.com/KhloeKardashian/status/285821332061556737

 

[KHarvey16]

The only thing I can make of this is that there are apparently some bad things to going over this cliff that Obama sees but no one else does...

Aghhhhhhhhh damn it, folding again ugh

Pay attention.

 

[ISOM]

Other than obama compromising/caving on the 250k threshold can anyone else tell me why liberals don't like this deal?

 

[el retorno]

I just read Team of Rivals and was struck by the fact that Lincoln was accused of being a spineless conciliator and moving too slowly every time he did anything. You guys are playing right into Obama's hands here.

Obama's not trying to keep the union together, win a war and end slavery. He's trying to raise taxes by 4%

 

[Aaron Strife]

If Obama endorsed a Republican proposal to avert the fiscal cliff, verbatim, and urged Democratic senators to pass it, Cantor and crew would still be accusing him of torpedoing the process.

They must really feel uncomfortable having a black president telling them what to do. Seriously, what the hell speech were they watching?

 

[The Librarian]

I can totally see why, so far this deal:

-Raises at least 600 billion in revenue
-Has no entitlement cuts
-Has no spending cuts
-About 100 billion in stimulative tax policies (continuation)

I just keep looking this over and, as a deal by itself, I'm like 75% behind it now. As a deal in context of how to handle the debt ceiling and other items? I'm more iffy on it.

 

[Clevinger]

I just read Team of Rivals and was struck by the fact that Lincoln was accused of being a spineless conciliator and moving too slowly every time he did anything. You guys are playing right into Obama's hands here.

But what good or big things has O gotten post-Republican House? I'm not denying they exist, I just don't remember them.

I sort of sympathize with him because Republicans are the most insane and obstructionist as they've ever been, but his leadership (or lack there of) makes the problem much worse.

https://twitter.com/KhloeKardashian/status/285821332061556737

That's deep, Khloe.