True, we should celebrate his district being progressive enough to reelect an obviously gay Republican.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News
- Thread starter bananas
- Start date
- Status
Chickens coming home to roost.
I was arguing this briefly in the other thread, but I don't see how things get more gridlocked. What things that plausibly would have passed otherwise will not be passed now? Immigration reform has been dead for about a year. The time for that was in early 2013 when support for it among the establishment was strong and conservatives were disillusioned. Republicans know they're going to gain ground in the upcoming elections, so why try to hash out an immigration deal now and risk depressing the base? And if they do well in the upcoming elections, then America has come to its senses and it'd be dumb to compromise when they're so close to total victory. Anyway, any prolonged discussion of immigration is going to lead to a conservative revolt that negates much of the benefit of being seen to care about brown people.
It's not like meaningful VA reform was going to happen, much less increased funding to match increased demand for care. We stopped talking about that before all this POW stuff. And, for his part, Obama's pretty much said "fuck it" already. He's going to regulate carbon through the EPA, bypassing Congress. Establishment and Tea Party alike will hate that more than Obamacare, and it makes their excuse that they can't do X because they don't trust Obama to apply the law non-tyrannically more convincing. Maybe we'll have some more fighting over the debt ceiling, but Cantor wasn't on the side of sanity in that and probably we do better there if Boehner isn't worried about Cantor leading a revolt.
At this point, less-disguised Republican craziness only serves to drive non-crazies away from the party faster and insulates Democrats from random factors in 2016 and beyond.
Ted Cruz.
He's in the senate. Unless you're thinking Ted Yoho.
RIP Eric Cantor.
PhoenixDark
Banned
To be fair he's always bombing the extremists.
One thing is for certain: immigration reform is dead, probably until the next census redraws lines.
BTW now that they've truly drawn blood I wonder how Boehner will hold the tea party in line now. Will he finally stop appeasing them with temporary red meat (ie doing what they want for a few weeks before allowing the saner members to make the status quo move)? But then again...I kinda feel like Boehner might feel good about this. One less enemy to worry about.
jamesinclair
Banned
So help me God if it's Kevin McCarthy
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Its the souths revenge for Civil Rights.
What PD said, they can't be appeased with holding the line then relenting. They want it all.
Boehner's always denied that he intended to step down, but lots of people expect/ed it. How likely he still is to step down depends on to what extent he was intending to step down because he was worried that he didn't have the votes and to what extent he actually cares about not leaving a crazy person in charge.
I'm sure that Cantor getting primaried is going to fire up the Tea Partiers, but he was also the obvious replacement if Boehner were to step down or be deposed. So Boehner's probably safer now than he was, if that was a concern - he won't have to fight as hard to be Speaker. And if he cares at all about policy he might be concerned that stepping down as Speaker would mean that "someone even crazier than Cantor" would get the job. He can likely appease the Tea Partiers by taking on someone crazy as Majority Leader to show him the ropes or whatever and thus stick around for another term or two. He doesn't have to last very long before even the crazies become unwilling to depose a Speaker before a presidential election.
speculawyer
Member
Pfft. They are going to get high on their own bullshit this year. The lazy Dems and moderates won't arrive to the polls in 2014. Crazies will get into office.
And then they'll get blind-sided in 2016 with moderation when mass population votes.
Obama is lame duck at this point and it will be nothing but executive action & foreign policy for the next couple of years.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Riiiiiiiight. Just like "some Republicans were willing to do Healthcare reform." Immigration reform has been dead since Republicans took the House in 2010. Have we learned nothing from the last 6 years? The Republican modus operandi since Obama got elected was to feign a willingness to work on an issue, drag it as far to the right as possible, and then still not have a single member vote for it in the end (followed by bitching about the Democrats ignoring "bipartisanship" and "shoving legislation down America's throat").
The best thing to happen to the Republicans has been the popular acceptance of the Tea Party being something that supports anything other than exactly what every other Republican supports. There is no policy difference. Things can't get any worse. The Tea Party is just more open/honest with their insanity and racism, or as they like to say, "they're not media trained."
Sirpopopop
Member
speculawyer
Member
I think immigration reform has been dead since about 1990.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
If we learn nothing else then we must learn this -- there is no greater political force in the US than conservative talk radio. Fox has nothing on these pyschos.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
One other thing -- the endgame is pretty clear here. Whether it's 2016, or 18, or 20... nothing changes until moderate Republicans band together and paint these crazies for what they are. I'm just not sure how they can do it unless they all join together in a political suicide pact.
The only way they can save their party, and maybe the political process here in the US, is by giving a few elections away to force these nuts out.
The only way they can save their party, and maybe the political process here in the US, is by giving a few elections away to force these nuts out.
Here's my thought. I used to be Republican way back when, mostly because it's practically the default party of my state, before I essentially ended up non partisan. The issues are many with moderate Republicans:
- If you speak up, you're immediately painted as not conservative enough to really be Republican, or a RINO.
- If you start getting momentum, the rest of the Republicans dox/threaten/harass you into submission.
- The super right side of the party has cheerleaders and hero units in media faces and voices on radio and TV. They'll use their name to railroad you before you get anywhere. You'll get primaried out, or beaten to a pulp in the media.
If you're a moderate Republican, you're better off trying to pull Dems your way to get what you want, at no risk to you. If you try to do it via the Republican party, your life could quite literally be on the line.
And you can't reform as a third party because FPTP mathematically prevents third parties from existing.
As you said, the first people to start pulling the Republican party off the cliff are essentially signing a suicide pact.
Or they try to become Democrats.
I have a nightmare scenario where that happens, Wall Street joins them, making the dems pro-inequality+ pro-minority, and the right goes anti-inequality.
That would be a hard choice for me.
Seems like a small price to pay for the death of the far right wing. If the Democratic party ever became too conservative afterwards, we can always form a new Progressive party.
You can't be pro-inequality and "pro-minority" in America. That's like being for war but against battles.* The systemic discrimination against minorities is heavily tied up with economic inequality, and in fact, many of the structural components that enforce economic inequality started out as ways to disenfranchise and impoverish African-Americans. The things that need to be done to address institutional racism in a real way would also go a long way towards leveling the economic playing field.
* Insert drone joke here
Black Mamba
Member
Cantor being pushed out is hilarious, but it's also setting up the GOP's shellacking in 2016 I've been predicting for years here.
This is what the beginning of the end looks like. It's coming.
This is what the beginning of the end looks like. It's coming.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You need to stop the slide before you can start to see things go the other way. Republicans know they need immigration reform at this point, and the only thing stopping them is worries about their right flank. I think there was a foreseeable future where the primary threats died down and republicans could do what's best for them in the general election instead of the primary. Unfortunately that's no longer a possibility whatsoever.
Besides, at least they're passing debt ceiling raises and government budgets right now. That's about the one last thing they can just stop doing.
Remember when Cantor was against the idea of a shutdown while a relatively unknown Ted Cruz was pushing for it? Now Cantor is out of a job and Ted Cruz is one of the presidential front runners. There was a time when Cantor seemed as far right as you can get, and Ted Cruz one upped him and moved the entire party even further right. I would not underestimate the possibility that this slide continues and Ted Cruz gets one upped again with another crazy person forcing the party right.
This is the type of slide I'm most worried about. Cantor's open position alone is going to cause some pretty massive infighting which could bring the tea party more power and that much closer to causing extreme irreversible damage.
Would you prefer the "I can't stand to even look at Obama" Pete Sessions? Or maybe you'll take someone from the Hell No caucus like Jim Jordan? Or maybe you prefer the Ron Paul "end the fed" style Jeb Hensarling instead?
Seriously, Kevin McCarthy is the best we can hope for, which as far as I can tell, he's just another Cantor except with less speaking ability.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
The thing is, Cantor wasn't a challenger, but an ally. It's not like Cantor was the one leading the charge to get rid of Boehner. At best he was sitting on the sidelines, ready to jump in if Boehner got the boot. It also helped that it was obvious Cantor would eventually get the seat eventually anyhow, making it easier to just accept that Party Leader Cantor is good enough for now.
It always seemed to me like Cantor was the glue that kept the establishment and tea party together on issues like this. I don't know if a Boehner nearing the end of his rope can keep the establishment alive single-handedly while also carrying the dull, plastic Kevin McCarthy and Cathy Rogers on his back.
Black Republican
Member
Cantor lost? poor thing
Cantor was of those fake allies that is only friends with you until they have enough power to overthrow you. He was smart enough to know that he didn't have to the sway to overthrow him YET but was constantly biting on his heals and causing problems.
Coriolanus
Banned
Reading up on Brat in his site, fun stuff.
Particularly like how he's an economist and says Eric voting to increase the debt limit is some great crime.
Alas, a hillbilly he most certainly is not. Just... pretty much the embodiment of the republican stereotype.
*
HAHAHA oh wow, this slide is amazing.
Particularly like how he's an economist and says Eric voting to increase the debt limit is some great crime.
Alas, a hillbilly he most certainly is not. Just... pretty much the embodiment of the republican stereotype.
*
HAHAHA oh wow, this slide is amazing.
Speaking of those economics credentials:
Looking at the profile they have of him on Vox, this guy sounds great. I do love how both the nominees in this race are professors at the same college.
I thought this was an interesting comment, from Pelosi's ex-chief of staff:
@citizencohn said:
Looking at the profile they have of him on Vox, this guy sounds great. I do love how both the nominees in this race are professors at the same college.
I thought this was an interesting comment, from Pelosi's ex-chief of staff:
Because he world is, and America is a tapestry thereof.
He is definitely against a minimum wage, he's just trying to find a nice way of saying it.
Angry Fork
Member
As fun as it is to laugh at Cantor, this will only give more ammo to traitor liberals to defend Hilary and other corporate dems as the best/only alternative. If the left doesn't mobilize an actual leftist program that's big and unified fast, we're pretty fucked for a while.
Why such an angry fork?
TacticalFox88
Banned
Fork, I swear sometimes when I read your posts you remind me of Cenk Uygur and his shtick.
Lucky Forward
Member
Cantor Conquerer Caught Off Guard By Policy Questions In Interview
He sounds Cain-esque: I gotta go back to got all this stuff twirling around in my head.
He sounds Cain-esque: I gotta go back to got all this stuff twirling around in my head.
Angry Fork
Member
What is his shtick? Having principles? Defending democrats that aren't interested in upholding private enterprise over public welfare?
As for me I like Cenk but he is a center-left person who can't bring himself to support moderate French policies let alone Nordic where they're at least discussing a possible universal basic income. I'm basically a communist.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think there a ton of reasons for the left to fear a Hillary presidency. You don't have to have a schtick to see it.
Angry Fork
Member
It's not just Hilary although she's the main pig. It's all the potential Senate/House candidates that are going to lick the teet of wall st. but because they support gay rights/immigration reform everyone is going to say we should elect them, because economic rights don't matter to liberals anymore. Real economic rights, not $10 an hour over 5 year transition bullshit.
speculawyer
Member
Well . . . Hillary *IS* their best shot.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what wall st by and large wants. Wall Street doesn't have a problem with spending programs they just don't want to be taxed.
TacticalFox88
Banned
TacticalFox88
Banned
GOP in full blown civil war mode.
Ew.... As much as I hate him, I'd rather Boehner stay in that position while the GOP has the house.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked