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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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Oh wait theres more Chris news

The right loves Obamas executive orders right? Theyll love this guy!

Without fanfare, Gov. Chris Christie today signed 100 bills into law and vetoed 44, breaking a record for the most vetoes in at least a quarter century.

The newly signed laws — which take effect at different times — update Megan’s Law, exempt cosmetics related to breast reconstruction from sales tax, prohibit female genital mutilation, require emergency shelters to admit homeless people who don’t pose a danger and require public school students to be screened for dyslexia.

Some of the bills Christie nixed by letting them lapse without action — what’s known as a “pocket veto” — would require schools be equipped with a silent alarm connected directly to authorities, create a loan redemption program to encourage doctors to work in New Jersey, expand the DNA database of criminals who are finger printed, regulate “teen nights” at clubs and establish an industrial hemp license.

Over the past two years, Christie has vetoed 164 bills sent to him by the Legislature – breaking the record 138 vetoes set after the 2010 to 2011 legislative session. Based on records going back to 1988, no governor in recent memory has come close.
But Christie made no mention of the milestone today, instead issuing a press release simply listing the bills he took action on.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ss..._bills_vetos_others.html#incart_river_default
 
Australian dollars, though the value of the dollar doesn't matter much, since you have to exchange it at the point of sale anyway. The US is very liberalized with a lot of economies of scale and very low labour costs. Many things are over twice as expensive here compared to the states.

While I haven't seen any studies (if they even exist), I would have to assume that the US also permits far more externalities than other countries. The more a country forces business to eat the real costs of its business, the more expensive various goods will be (but the less society will have to collectively pay, which is fairer to individual consumers who avoid businesses that are more damaging to society at large).
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
The bathtub example helps a lot. But still you get buzzwords thrown about, gold, inflation, people won't hold dollars etc that I often take them time to answer but end up leading the argument down a defensive path instead of stating the simple observation that spending creates money and taxes destroy it, its not the water cycle

Can you or empty vessel expand on this argument, or point me to a resource (old post, website, whatever) that does so? I find it interesting.
 
I don't understand why he vetoed half those bills, especially the silent alarm one. That seems like a no brainer, schools get better protection without introducing more guns into the equation.

I assume his pockets werent greased?


This is the worst one:

Christie vetoed would require all police cars used in traffic stops be equipped with cameras (A4193),

Fuck you, America. This should be a fed law. Camera + audio 24/7.
 
While I haven't seen any studies (if they even exist), I would have to assume that the US also permits far more externalities than other countries. The more a country forces business to eat the real costs of its business, the more expensive various goods will be (but the less society will have to collectively pay, which is fairer to individual consumers who avoid businesses that are more damaging to society at large).

I doubt it, the UK is much less expensive as well and its politics are nigh identical to Australia's. There are many more trade unions and the supply of low skilled labour is more limited as immigration is strictly for high skilled labour. The US has an endless supply of low cost labour as it comes in from Mexico.

You can't get any economies of scale going in small countries, so Walmart and Amazon never happen.
 
Move over, New York: Donald Trump is now saying that he might consider a bid for the White House in 2016.
“It is something I would certainly look at. You know why? I’m unhappy with the way things are going in America,” Trump told Reuters in a telephone interview Tuesday


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/donald-trump-2016-election-102419.html#ixzz2r4qNFSgj
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/21/uk-usa-trump-idUKBREA0K0LR20140121

Please, we need as much GOP crazy as possible, again.


edit: Also, re: Hannity. I'm sure Fox will build him his own studio in Florida. lol. Free market owns your ass in NY, bitch.
 
You know what is odd . . . . conservatives have put up a much more effective fight against Obamacare than the liberals put up of a fight against the Iraq war.

That just seems so strange. How can people be so committed against helping some people get access to health insurance. It seems pathological.

The 'party of life' seems to be quite OK with death. Kill people in war, let them die with no healthcare . . . just don't let a fetus die! Eh, never mind. It is the eternal religious-conservative paradox.
 
Can you or empty vessel expand on this argument, or point me to a resource (old post, website, whatever) that does so? I find it interesting.

It was recently being discussed in the context of a thread on France's recent embrace of supply side economics here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751334&page=4

But the original source of the image I used (the bathtub) is from this article (which APKmetsfan might also be interested in, given that it is actually about trying to explain these concepts to others):

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/10/letter-to-my-brother.html

You should note that this understanding of a fiat monetary system is neither conservative nor liberal. It is basically a conceptual understanding of how the system works empirically (albeit simplified and reduced to its very basics). The volume of water (dollars) coming out of the spigot and allowed to fall through the drain is a policy choice. In real terms, this represents the size of the government. Economic conservatives and employers favor a small drain (low taxes) and a small spigot (low spending). Progressives and employees would tend to favor a larger drain (higher taxes) and a larger spigot (more spending). Note that both of those can effectively keep the tub at an economically optimized level.

Of course, which water particles are allowed to flow from the drain is also a very important question (i.e., how taxes are distributed among members of society), but note that it has no bearing on this understanding of the monetary system. It's a separate question.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
It was recently being discussed in the context of a thread on France's recent embrace of supply side economics here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751334&page=4

But the original source of the image I used (the bathtub) is from this article (which APKmetsfan might also be interested in, given that it is actually about trying to explain these concepts to others):

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/10/letter-to-my-brother.html

You should note that this understanding of a fiat monetary system is neither conservative nor liberal. It is basically a conceptual understanding of how the system works empirically (albeit simplified and reduced to its very basics). The volume of water (dollars) coming out of the spigot and allowed to fall through the drain is a policy choice. In real terms, this represents the size of the government. Economic conservatives and employers favor a small drain (low taxes) and a small spigot (low spending). Progressives and employees would tend to favor a larger drain (higher taxes) and a larger spigot (more spending). Note that both of those can effectively keep the tub at an economically optimized level.

Of course, which water particles are allowed to flow from the drain is also a very important question (i.e., how taxes are distributed among members of society), but note that it has no bearing on this understanding of the monetary system. It's a separate question.

Thanks for the links. Like I said, I think the argument is interesting, though I've never tried to read up on it much.
 
You know what is odd . . . . conservatives have put up a much more effective fight against Obamacare than the liberals put up of a fight against the Iraq war.

There were huge anti war rallies across the country, the media just forgot to do it's job and report about it. Unlike in 2009/2010 where every single loony Tea Party Glenn Beck protest got front page coverage.

Also remember that every single Republican in the country opposes Obamacare while Iraq pretty much split the Democrats, and many Dems still supported it well into 2004/2005. I still remember Harold Ford complaining that the Democrats didn't support Iraq enough.
 
Caifornia announced 500k private insurance enrollments last year. 125k more the 1st two weeks of Januaury for 625k total. This puts Cali about about 50% of the CBO's projection with just over half the time gone. DOOM!

580k medicaid expansion enrollment plus another 600k being moved over from another program for over 1 million.

Numbers indicate at least 6 million medicaid nationwide with 2/3 being new enrollees (so 4 million).

Death of Obamacare is coming!
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Caifornia announced 500k private insurance enrollments last year. 125k more the 1st two weeks of Januaury for 625k total. This puts Cali about about 50% of the CBO's projection with just over half the time gone. DOOM!

580k medicaid expansion enrollment plus another 600k being moved over from another program for over 1 million.

Numbers indicate at least 6 million medicaid nationwide with 2/3 being new enrollees (so 4 million).

Death of Obamacare is coming!

Will be an interesting couple of months.

Looks like that site tracking signups has evolved a little, making it a bit easier to parse the data

http://acasignups.net/graph
 
It was recently being discussed in the context of a thread on France's recent embrace of supply side economics here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751334&page=4

But the original source of the image I used (the bathtub) is from this article (which APKmetsfan might also be interested in, given that it is actually about trying to explain these concepts to others):

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/10/letter-to-my-brother.html

You should note that this understanding of a fiat monetary system is neither conservative nor liberal. It is basically a conceptual understanding of how the system works empirically (albeit simplified and reduced to its very basics). The volume of water (dollars) coming out of the spigot and allowed to fall through the drain is a policy choice. In real terms, this represents the size of the government. Economic conservatives and employers favor a small drain (low taxes) and a small spigot (low spending). Progressives and employees would tend to favor a larger drain (higher taxes) and a larger spigot (more spending). Note that both of those can effectively keep the tub at an economically optimized level.

Of course, which water particles are allowed to flow from the drain is also a very important question (i.e., how taxes are distributed among members of society), but note that it has no bearing on this understanding of the monetary system. It's a separate question.

I'm definitely gonna read up on that. I like a lot of MMT (I am aware that a lot of it isn't opinion but rather definitions) but my biggest issue is it seems to demand extreme rationality on the behalf of actors also I don't know how one democratically selects where to spend. It seems that it would create a technocratic command economy which I just don't see working out as its failed in other places, though I guess it could also use markets but lose its hypothetical ability to maintain perfect stability. I also think runs in to troubles internationally as other's countries's choices would affect another nations system. That's where I was trying to focus in the France thread. Only countries like the USA and China can get away with some of the more extreme possibilities suggested.
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
If I'm reading this correctly, aren't enrollments as a whole (nationwide) way behind the targets? 62% of the enrollment period elapsed, only 36% of the target achieved.

I don't think there was ever any question that enrollments were behind given the slow start caused by the website issues.

But, the other page has this note -

"Most sources don't specify whether enrollments refer to households or people, so it's possible that the actual number of people is somewhat higher."

and I imagine that there are a lot of numbers that will be get backfilled as time goes on. My guess is it will be early February before there is a more accurate picture of January, at which point it will be easier to determine whether momentum has softened and whether the targets are within reach.

At a glance though, it doesn't look great.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Caifornia announced 500k private insurance enrollments last year. 125k more the 1st two weeks of Januaury for 625k total. This puts Cali about about 50% of the CBO's projection with just over half the time gone. DOOM!

580k medicaid expansion enrollment plus another 600k being moved over from another program for over 1 million.

Numbers indicate at least 6 million medicaid nationwide with 2/3 being new enrollees (so 4 million).

Death of Obamacare is coming!

It gets worse:

“When they came to my office, Stephanie told me right up front, ‘I don’t want any part of Obamacare,’ ” recalls health-insurance agent Barry Cohen. “These were clearly people who don’t like the President. So I kind of let that slide and just asked them for basic information and told them we would go on the Ohio exchange” – which is actually the Ohio section of the federal Obamacare exchange – “and show them what’s available.”

What Stephanie soon discovered, she told me in mid-November, “was a godsend.” The business that she and her husband had launched … had recently received investor interest after being featured on an episode of the television series CSI. So she estimated to Cohen that their income would be about $90,000 in 2014. But even at that level, her family of four would qualify for a subsidy under Obamacare.

The Recchi family zeroed in on a plan with a $793 monthly premium, which would ultimately cost $566 a month thanks to the ACA subsidy. That was based on $90,000 income – if the family made $40,000, as it had last year, the premium would have cost them $17 a month.

All of a sudden, Stephanie Recchi, who’d previously seen “television ads and some politicians talking on the news,” saw the benefits of health care reform up close. “This is wonderful,” she said.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/critic-sees-aca-godsend

Another day, another God fearin' freedom loving family has jumped to the dark side. :(
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Caifornia announced 500k private insurance enrollments last year. 125k more the 1st two weeks of Januaury for 625k total. This puts Cali about about 50% of the CBO's projection with just over half the time gone. DOOM!

580k medicaid expansion enrollment plus another 600k being moved over from another program for over 1 million.

Numbers indicate at least 6 million medicaid nationwide with 2/3 being new enrollees (so 4 million).

Death of Obamacare is coming!

Great sign. I was really curious how the sign ups would go in January; seems it's nearly at the same pace as December in CA. Might be a good indication of the overall trends (toward socialism!).
 

Touchdown

Banned
So the former RNC chair Ed Gillespie jumped into the Senate race in Virginia against Mark Warner. The punditry has tripped over themselves to prop up one of their own and declare it an uber-competitive race. Here's the first poll:


JESUS WHAT A TOSSUP FUCK

OH HEY SPEAKING OF TOSSUPS NEW CLINTON VS CHRISTIE (NATIONAL) POLL COURTESY OF QUINNIPIAC


DEMOCRATS ARE DOOMED NOOOOO

Looks like another slam dunk for the dems. Nice.

airflotus.0_standard_709.0.gif
 
“When they came to my office, Stephanie told me right up front, ‘I don’t want any part of Obamacare,’ ”

I'll say it again . . . America was not ready for a black president. Yes, he got elected. Twice. But there is large percentage of lug-heads out there who just went nonlinear with Obama derangement syndrome.

Oh, yeah, people will say "stop calling me racist, I'm not racist." Well then you tell me why the fuck you oppose things that are good for you just because they have the name 'Obama' associated with them! People call you racist because when they look at the alleged non-racial reasons you oppose Obama things, they just don't make any logical sense.
 
Democrats have won the Virginia Senate seat vacated by Mark Herring - assuming the 9-vote lead (yup) in Ralph Northam's Senate district holds, Dems will essentially win control of the chamber. It's split 20-20 with the Lt. Gov tiebreaking.

DEMS IN DISARRAY
 

789shadow

Banned
Democrats have won the Virginia Senate seat vacated by Mark Herring - assuming the 9-vote lead (yup) in Ralph Northam's Senate district holds, Dems will essentially win control of the chamber. It's split 20-20 with the Lt. Gov tiebreaking.

DEMS IN DISARRAY
REMEMBER, YOUR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT
 
Democrats have won the Virginia Senate seat vacated by Mark Herring - assuming the 9-vote lead (yup) in Ralph Northam's Senate district holds, Dems will essentially win control of the chamber. It's split 20-20 with the Lt. Gov tiebreaking.

DEMS IN DISARRAY

btw she's the candidate who republicans threw the kitchen sink at, on abortion
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...ennifer-Wexton-because-what-else-do-they-have

So the GOP has already lost multiple elections fought over Obamacare and abortion...in Virginia. Even a pessimist of my caliber has to admit this is good news.
 

bananas

Banned
Democrats have won the Virginia Senate seat vacated by Mark Herring - assuming the 9-vote lead (yup) in Ralph Northam's Senate district holds, Dems will essentially win control of the chamber. It's split 20-20 with the Lt. Gov tiebreaking.

DEMS IN DISARRAY

This can only mean bad things for Hagan.
 

bonercop

Member
Faith in humanity once again at all time lows. So I was watching an Intelligence Squared debate, and the topic was about whether it was economically better to live in a red state as opposed to a blue state. The team arguing for it was WSJ hack, Stephen Moore and radio host, Hugh Hewitt (the latter of whom, I was surprised to see didn't present himself as much of a shithead as I thought he would).

This was done in front of a live audience and they were asked to voice their opinions both before and after the debate. Before the debate, the audience was split 57% to 24% on red states being better places to live. After the debate? It changed to 73% to 23%!

The kicker? The debate was taking place in fucking California! I weep for our future.

I'm sorry, but the "blue" side in that debate deserved to lose. Moore is an idiot, and just like every other prediction he's ever made, his claim about some glorious manufacturing revolution being right around the corner in texas is based 100% on magical thinking -- but at least he pretended to care about lower-class concerns. He pointed out that the overly large number of millionaire trash heaped up in California has made the cost of living ridiculous and the dems response to that was something along the lines "derpa durr hurr equal opportunity not equal outcome derp".

Fuck Clinton for popularizing that shit sentiment. I notice it's especially prominent in California.

btw she's the candidate who republicans threw the kitchen sink at, on abortion
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...ennifer-Wexton-because-what-else-do-they-have

So the GOP has already lost multiple elections fought over Obamacare and abortion...in Virginia. Even a pessimist of my caliber has to admit this is good news.

"Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth -lenin"

i don't--

why do these people keep making up lenin quotes?
 
So its time for the yearly: "most americans want abortion illegal" brouhaha in conservative media even though its not true.

(and even if 6 in 10 americans did would that change the fact the court found a constitutional protection for abortion in the 1st trimester and strong protections for it in the 2nd before viability?)

The shifting of the debate to questions about saving fetuses misses what courts are asked to decide. Can the law force someone to do something against their will to protect a fetus ? Pro-life is essential fetus rights > a women rights.
 
So its time for the yearly: "most americans want abortion illegal" brouhaha in conservative media even though its not true.

(and even if 6 in 10 americans did would that change the fact roe vs. wade found a constitutional protection for abortion in the 1st trimester and strong protections for it in the 2nd?)

The shifting of the debate to questions about the fetus misses what courts are asked to decide. Can the law force someone to do something against their will to protect a fetus?

To be fair, support for abortion seems to be dropping. The focus on banning it after x amount of weeks, instead of an outright ban, is catching on. Pretty surprising.
 
To be fair, support for abortion seems to be dropping. The focus on banning it after x amount of weeks, instead of an outright ban, is catching on. Pretty surprising.

No it isn't, you're buying into the spin from Pro-Life groups: if they say something and gain electoral success it must be true!

Its divided on demographic/religiousity lines. Overall its steady. Its the same as its always been, its an attempt to codify the concept of a religious doctrine (spiritual belief) in secular law and fight against growing secularization.

There's the right to life march this week in DC, they were all over union station. Its all bused in students from religious schools and religious groups.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/07/29/widening-regional-divide-over-abortion-laws/
 
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