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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

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Goldwater's 1964 victory was a "shock" because it had come against the increasing trend of Dewey Republican domination that Eisenhower had pulled out of the gutter. If anything the party would, as Will noted, re-orient away from the "liberals" and towards Goldwater/Reagan.

Yes, that's exactly what i'm saying. I don't particularly care about which direction the reorientation takes you. I'm defending that getting crushed forces a reorientation.

Heck, if if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from rational men, we realize that politics is often a cycle of a party attaining dominance, then falling apart step by step and getting crushed by hubris, forcing another reorientation cycle.

tbh i'm starting to suspect that one or both of us is suffering from the backfire effect.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Why would Trump spend gobs of his own money just to help insure a GOP defeat? All so he gets to say "see I told you!" He'll say that even if Jeb won a three-way race with him in it.

Running independent and getting less than 10% in a general would do far more harm to his ego than bowing out after having lost the GOP race and being able to always talk about "what could have been" had he been the nominee.

Cruz doesn't need to be liked, he just needs to be dependent and integrated, which he is.

Trump is the sort of dude that lives for revenge and can never forgive and can never forget. If he thinks there is a chance at fucking over the GOP, if they do wind up doing him dirty during the process, then he will absolutely take it and burn them to the ground as he stands there saying, "You should have known better than to mess with me, I told you so."
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
That reminds me. I wonder what President Trump would do to the NFL if he had ultimate power.

Depends on how dirty they did him in the past. Dude still can't get over his feud with Rosie O'Donnell and that was a decade ago and all she did was say mean things about him on The View during one segment.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I guess I don't even know what we're debating now.

I don't particularly care what happens to the GOP either, I was arguing from the "establishments" point of view. For them, there's no reason not to call Trump's bluff if they believe the GOP can't win the Presidential election. Then the Party is the prize, and you don't hand it over to Trump.

You can grudgingly allow Cruz a bigger share of it because he's already integrated into the infrastructure. If you think of it as if they became President and were picking a cabinet. A President Cruz cabinet will look a lot more like a President Rubio or President Bush or President Christie cabinet than a President Trump or President Paul cabinet would.

It would be the same for the Party.

Cruz may go around Party leaders but he doesn't go outside the Party.

I was also disputing the idea that saying "fine have your guy" and him losing means anything to an ideology that favors Will's "it took sixteen years to count the votes" view. The conservative base isn't going to suddenly go "okay, you're right, lets support gay marriage and abortion and gun control and immigration and etc." and nominate Evan Bayh.

Trump is the sort of dude that lives for revenge and can never forgive and can never forget. If he thinks there is a chance at fucking over the GOP, if they do wind up doing him dirty during the process, then he will absolutely take it and burn them to the ground as he stands there saying, "You should have known better than to mess with me, I told you so."
I have no idea where this image of Trump comes from other than himself. He's a pussycat.

Depends on how dirty they did him in the past.
Trump did everyone else dirty, he moved the USFL's season to the Fall because he wanted to try and force the NFL into a merger, it killed the only advantage the USFL had and thus the league.
 

benjipwns

Banned
HERE COMES JEBMENTIUM:
As the first voting nears, however, the former Florida governor says he remains “an optimist about the mission I’m on, and an optimist about our country.” In an interview Tuesday, Mr. Bush said voters rarely ask him what he derides as “process questions, hardly ever. People don’t say, ‘How are you going to win?’ or ‘How are you doing with the left-handed Albanian vote?’ or ‘Why is Donald Trump winning?’ No one cares.” He says the Americans he meets wonder about the economy, and retirement, and health care, and now national security and world affairs—and thus the primaries may be taking a more substantive turn.

“There’s no tangible evidence of that necessarily in the head-to-head polling, but polling is the last thing to go. But I see it, and I sense it, and people want to know: ‘Do you have fortitude?’ ” Mr. Bush says. “These are serious times. We need a leader that has a steady hand and has a clear vision. Whether that’s me or not, I’m going to work hard to make it so.”

...

The Paris and San Bernardino terror attacks concentrated minds, in Mr. Bush’s estimate, amid general apprehension about the advance of Islamic State, the Syrian civil war, the nuclear deal with Iran and Vladimir Putin’s revanchism. As he sees it, this global decay is a consequence of President Obama’s lack of conviction in the worth and purposes of American power and influence. “Sometimes I get a sense that the president is so reluctant to engage that the only consistency he has is his reluctance,” Mr. Bush says.

“Consistency” in foreign policy is a theme Mr. Bush invokes again and again, which he means in two ways. One is simple clarity about how the U.S. will conduct itself overseas—“political, diplomatic, economic and military”—to promote order and stability. The other sense is more subtle. Mr. Bush also defines consistency as having reflected deeply about strategy, priorities and philosophy and formed a coherent if adaptive view of geopolitics. “I think it’s important to think things through beforehand,” he says.

“It requires constantly adjusting to the fact that the world changes. So we can’t fight the Cold War at the same time we’re fighting whatever we’re calling this war of our times, of Islamist terrorism,” he says. All the same, the question for a commander in chief is “in the midst of having to deal with things, do you have the fortitude? Do you have the guts, do you have the spine, whatever you want to call it? Do you have a clear vision on how to get there?” Mr. Obama and for that matter Mrs. Clinton, he says, are reactive: “They bounce off the walls, it’s all political, it’s all spin.”

On that inconsistency point, Mr. Bush also has sharp words for Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, “the senators who had a chance to have a more complete view on Syria prior to the Paris attacks” and now are “kind of adjusting based on the here and now.” Mr. Cruz, he notes, used to say the U.S. “didn’t have a dog in the fight, didn’t want to be ISIS’s air force,” but “now we’re going to carpet bomb—I don’t think we’ve been carpet bombing in the last 50 years, since the ’60s, but I assume that was an allusion to being tough.” He adds that “Marco now believes that there is a security interest in Syria, but he didn’t at the time that it really mattered,” during the chemical-weapons “red line” debacle of 2013.

“So sick and tired of people reading a poll, or, ‘Oh my God, someone’s angry, I’ll make a slight little nuanced adjustment,’ ” he says. “That’s the Washington world.”

...

What lessons does he draw from the Bush Sr. administration? “The first impulse is to try to forge coalitions and consensus, that diplomatic efforts shouldn’t be discounted.” He notes with admiration the world-wide alliance his father built to liberate Kuwait and “how much work, how much confidence and trust, how much patience, the kind of work that requires a little humility, everything necessary to do this.”

‘My brother did it to a certain extent but not nearly to the fullest extent that Operation Desert Storm brought,” he adds, unprovoked.

“Secondly,” Mr. Bush continues, “I think needs to be clarity and consistency about what the strategy is. . . . If you’re going to send people in uniform to fight for a cause, you’ve explained what the cause is, it’s a righteous cause, you believe in it, you’re convinced that it’s the right thing to do for the security interests of our country, then unleash them for total victory. No partial victories. And then leave.”

The Trump-Cruz America-first movement is often portrayed as an intellectual confrontation with traditional GOP hawks, but Mr. Bush is dismissive. “The Republican Party’s never been completely unified around an internationalist view,” he says. “When times get tough and there’s a lot of anxiety, the natural tendency is to retrench a bit,” but the answer “isn’t a retreat, and to create walls, and protectionism, and all sorts of barriers to protect us, because they won’t.”

As for Mr. Trump, Mr. Bush unloads. “The people following and covering the campaigns? The cable shows? They’re obsessed with Trump, and all they care about is what effect this disparaging remark will have on the campaign—it’s all about nothing. It changes with each week. He’s Pavlov and they’re the dog, basically. I’ve never seen anything quite like it.

“The Trump phenomena is one part him, being this effective showman and manipulating the press like no one has ever done in modern history, phenomenal expertise with no shame—on either side I guess—and then the deep angst and anger people feel, the deep disaffection people feel, which is real. You gotta respect that.”

Mr. Bush thinks we’ve entered “this great disruptive era where globalization and rapid innovation and technological change is redesigning our society very quickly.” Mr. Obama’s failures to modernize government in response “have accelerated these trends, and then, on top of that, I do think that Trump is a creature of Obama in the sense that his divisive politics is mirrored by Trump’s. Two competing pessimistic views of the world. One could not exist without the other.”

Mr. Bush believes, in any case, that the Trump thrill is gone—or at least going. “I don’t think it’s long-lasting, because he’s not offering anything to solve the problems.”
Mr. Bush’s confidence that problems have solutions and that progress is possible applies to his campaign as well as the country, even if it almost seems like an heirloom from a different political era. “The world is moving at warp speed and the government hasn’t adapted,” he says, adding that the task is to reform laws that “might have worked in 1970 for 2025 and beyond. Frankly, that’s where, if the campaign starts moving in that direction, I feel pretty good about my chances, because that’s what I’m running for.

“As wonky as it’s supposed to be to actually have ideas to address these challenges, I do, and I think presidents should.”
 
I just had the scariest realization... the most natural VP candidate for Trump is Sarah Palin. Think about it...

  • He can't go establishment because his base is dependent on FU establishment status.
  • Since her disaster in 2008, she has rebuilt her brand.
  • Instead of the bumbling buffoon she really was, in conservative circles, she's now a martyr of the librul media.
  • She's more used to the spotlight now, she's more polished.
  • It's just the kind of publicity stunt that Trump would use to dominate news cycles.
  • It would bring him closer to the center in the sense that Palin has a base that's not *just* the Tea Party Nuts

It makes perfect sense to me. Trump / Palin 16
 

Hexa

Member
I just had the scariest realization... the most natural VP candidate for Trump is Sarah Palin. Think about it...

  • He can't go establishment because his base is dependent on FU establishment status.
  • Since her disaster in 2008, she has rebuilt her brand.
  • Instead of the bumbling buffoon she really was, in conservative circles, she's now a martyr of the librul media.
  • She's more used to the spotlight now, she's more polished.
  • It's just the kind of publicity stunt that Trump would use to dominate news cycles.
  • It would bring him closer to the center in the sense that Palin has a base that's not *just* the Tea Party Nuts

It makes perfect sense to me. Trump / Palin 16

You're projecting really hard.

trump%2Bpalin%2B2016.jpg
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
And Trump said Oprah.
Oprah makes sense because Trump loves Oprah, she is terrific and Oprah really loves him, he absolutely going win the Oprah vote in November, and another thing, and I just want to say it quickly because I don't want to waste your time, but who wouldn't want Oprah as their Vice President huh? huh, you tell me. you tell me
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
The GOP base will never engage in any form of meaningful self-reflection if even a "true" conservative like Cruz wins the nomination and loses the general. Even if it's a massive blowout.

You need look no further than the current Speaker of the House, for proof. Paul D. Ryan was practically a god in Republican circles since 2011 after he concocted several shitty bills to destroy medicare. He was considered the only positive aspect of Romney's presidency. This is a man who was one of the few people to actually come to Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin, proving he was just as extreme on social issues as he was on economic issues.

This same person, is now currently viewed by the base, as the newest convert to radical Islam. That's the kind of people we're dealing with. If by some miracle Cruz gets the opportunity to lose to Hillary, he'll just simply be re-imagined by the Freeper crowd as always being a secret welfare supporting, tax raising communist who dreamed of having an affair with Obama.


Conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed.
 
I feel like my predictit strategy is all wrong. I've been buying and holding, but I could make way more timing the market.

Problem is you can't hold yes and no shares in the same market. Take Bernie: No shares are about 81c. Completely risk free return of nearly 25% before fees. But I'd probably make more buying a bunch of 19c Yes shares and selling them after he wins NH and less discerning buyers think he has a chance.

If you could just buy Yes and No shares in the same market this would be so easy.
 

Cerium

Member
I feel like my predictit strategy is all wrong. I've been buying and holding, but I could make way more timing the market.

Problem is you can't hold yes and no shares in the same market. Take Bernie: No shares are about 81c. Completely risk free return of nearly 25% before fees. But I'd probably make more buying a bunch of 19c Yes shares and selling them after he wins NH and less discerning buyers think he has a chance.

If you could just buy Yes and No shares in the same market this would be so easy.

Find other ways to hedge. I shorted a smaller amount of Rubio shares at 56 cents and that's been a very good investment; I could divest now at 72 cents, better than my return on Trump in the short term. That was during the height of the Rubio hype when I was sure everyone was overrating him.

I think I'm just going to wait for Trump to win it all at this point.
 
anyone following random cruz/trump supporters on twitter? i tell you some of the shit they tweet like every couple of minutes.hours. Do they have no life!?!?
 
anyone following random cruz/trump supporters on twitter? i tell you some of the shit they tweet like every couple of minutes.hours. Do they have no life!?!?

I've noticed on several local news websites with forums, that conservatives like to camp out and respond to every article that gets posted. Same usual suspects, with the same right-wing rhetoric. I'm assuming most right-wing internet posters are retired, and like to spend every minute of their time trolling various websites, or spamming Twitter.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
.@JebBush is a low energy "stiff" who should focus his special interest money on the many people ahead of him in the polls. Has no chance!

He's already at it.
 

Teggy

Member
Find other ways to hedge. I shorted a smaller amount of Rubio shares at 56 cents and that's been a very good investment; I could divest now at 72 cents, better than my return on Trump in the short term. That was during the height of the Rubio hype when I was sure everyone was overrating him.

I think I'm just going to wait for Trump to win it all at this point.

What happens if you are still holding shares after the election? Do you just lose that money?
 
fantastic news.

I know. I thought something was up when the Sanders people didn't release immediately. I figured they were looking for a way to spin it. It's not a bad haul at all, especially for an outsider....but the way some Bernie folks were going on and on on Reddit, they were going to break her back in the funding.

Of course $hillary would.. Corporate shill. :p

Did I do it right Adam, is it like that?


10 out of 10, would read again. :D
 
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