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[Butts-a-plenty]

So friends I started working at a nonprofit in DC this week that is involved in the election. I'll be sure to provide any info here that I know that isn't confidential!

 

[Foffy]

wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?

There has been a social meme here that socialized hospitals means waiting lists and slow care. In fact, this is actually one of the top five arguments made against a universal health care system.

Let that speak volume to the psychological blockage this country faces.

A majority does value a single payer system, but only a little over half.

The problem I and others have with Obamacare is it's merely patchwork to a system so broken that all of the good it does, it's working in a defective model. At least, that's the argument of reason: the other side of the coin genuinely hates Obama and government control, so they want to leave it to the for-profit medical industry which already exploits people with chargemasters and the like.

 

[User 463088]

wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?

Not all of us think that way. A lot of us would like to have a single payer system. However, we also accept political realities and know we can't have everything we want right now. Polling from July through now shows that Americans disapprove of Obamacare by an average of 7%. Of course, some of those don't approve because it doesn't go far enough. Some don't like any government intervention. But, ya, some people are still pissed about Obamacare, calling it worse than slavery.

Then there are also those misinformed people who think the American way is best because "Fuck ya Murica!" These people are myopic, close minded and often ignorant. The problem is, they vote and have big mouths. You hear them more than you hear the more sensible people.

I also think it's important to remember that it's hard to generalize about Americans. We're a huge country, geographically and often culturally diverse. Even among people that freely associate with each other (ie. a New York Democrat versus an Alabaman Democrat) are completely different due to heritage and life experiences.

I think, and this is just my opinion, one reason we never moved towards a nationalized health system is that after WW2, we didn't have to do the rebuilding most European countries did. By and large, we were spared the true horrors of the war, so we kinda just went back to life as usual. Had we needed to rebuild, we probably would have been willing/able to make some more sweeping changes.

 

[East Lake]

wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?

Universal healthcare polls fairly well among regular people, not so much with political elites though, so it doesn't get much traction.

 

[Abinash117]

wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?

It is widespread enough for it to be an issue many people don't want it to be fixed in a particular way. At the same time many Americans want the healthcare system to be a single payer system, it is a polarized issue.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Trump going birther on Cruz.

“Republicans are going to have to ask themselves the question: ‘Do we want a candidate who could be tied up in court for two years?’ That’d be a big problem,” Trump said when asked about the topic. “It’d be a very precarious one for Republicans because he’d be running and the courts may take a long time to make decision. You don’t want to be running and have that kind of thing over your head.”

Trump added, “I’d hate to see something like that get in his way. But a lot of people are talking about it and I know that even some states are looking at it very strongly, the fact that he was born in Canada and he has had a double passport.”

Catherine Frazier, a spokeswoman for Cruz, declined to comment Tuesday.

I wonder how he's going to spin this comment when he picks Cruz as his running mate.

 

[PBY]

Trump going birther on Cruz.

I wonder how he's going to spin this comment when he picks Cruz as his running mate.

Just the vetting process.

 

[Foffy]

Apparently, Bernie "Approved by Lil B" Sanders wants to propose something very interesting. It might sound like an attack on the super evil oligarchy, but I am legit shook there are small hints of a basic income proposition, albeit one like Alaska has. It's not the ideal, but like the ACA, something even proposing a start should be appreciated, so long as it doesn't stay locked as mere proposal. I don't think nothing will come from this proposal, but holy shit, something even along the lines of a UBI-like idea in America, in 2016? Even being entertained? Fucking hold me.

I do wish more politicians talked about it. Hillary's answer on this topic genuinely offended me. This was her answer, and her Neo-based influence left me dead for a few hours.

“I certainly don’t have all the answers. But we have to resolve these questions while embracing the promise and potential of these new technologies and without stifling innovation or limiting the ability of working moms and veterans and young people to get ahead.”

That's about as generic as a non answer as you'll ever get from a politician. Sanders original response to this was bad, too, but it at least talked about poverty and basic income in a genuine manner.

 

[NeoXChaos]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...971ed6-b3d0-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

Christie mocked Rubio as naive in the arts of political street fighting — “He’s never been in a tough race in his life,” he said dismissively — and tore into Rubio’s work in the “Gang of Eight” on a 2013 immigration bill that has since become anathema to conservatives.

“The guy who advocated for amnesty and then ran away when the topic got too hot tells you two things: He’s not a reliable conservative, A, and, B, whenever it gets too hot, Marco turns tail and runs,” he said. “I’m not the least bit concerned that Marco Rubio will hurt me with conservatives. Marco Rubio has work himself to do with conservatives.”

Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Kasich attacked Christie by comparing their records as governor. “Here in Ohio, we have a balanced budget; they don’t over in New Jersey,” he said. “Our credit has been strengthened; their credit has been downgraded. We’ve got more jobs.”

==

“There’s nothing in them that’s inaccurate,” Rubio said. “I guess the point is something I would say, too, and that is that this country cannot afford a president that’s not going to reverse the direction Barack Obama’s taken our country. We can’t have another president that supports Common Core or gun control or expanding Obamacare.”

Christie swatted back at Rubio in the Post interview.

“If Marco thinks that . . . having his big donors from Madison Avenue put a few ads up in New Hampshire is going to shake me, that just again shows his inexperience and shows you what he’ll be like against Hillary Clinton,” he said. “If he’s overreacting to this — now — that just proves my point that he’s not ready to be the nominee.”

Trump and Cruz Response:

 

[JesseEwiak]

wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?

One thing nobody has mentioned yet which is the thing that is kind well, the undercurrent of all of this is...race.

Southern White's (who are the main problem - without that region of the country, we'd basically be Canada. That's not to say there is no racism in other parts of the country, but degrees) were fine with federal spending during the New Deal and pre-Civil Rights Era when that spending went to white people.

(Note, that's an oversimplification, but it's largely true.)

But, when LBJ and Democrat's started handing over things to black people (and later, brown people), that's when the true backlash began and as a result, the resultant myth of bootstraps and such began percolating among the right.

That's why whenever new social spending is proposed, the first attacks will about "lazy" or "welfare cheats" or "the problems of black culture" will be brought up on the conservative side of the aisle. Plus, if you can keep the brown or black folk down, you'll feel better about yourself, even if you're a poor white guy.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?

I have heard the argument of hospital overcrowding from my peers before, yes. Although, overwhelming the argument I hear against it is something along the lines of "I've worked hard and done a lot to get myself health insurance. Why should I have to now pay for the health care of someone who is lazy and can't earn it for themselves." Or something along those lines.

I think polls show that the majority of Americans (or maybe plurality, I dunno) would be okay with a single payer system. But in between what people want and what people get is a whole shit ton of politics that muddy the water and make it damn near impossible. But healthcare is definitely still an issue. Some people are still very upset about Obamacare and want to repeal it, while others are still very upset that our system (even as it has been improved by Obamacare) is failing so many people.

The hospital overcrowding argument is also one of the weirdest ones to me. I used to see it a lot back before Obamacare passed (Less so now). The argument is basically "We have a lot of people who need medical care. If we allow them all to go to hospitals, people will die waiting for care." Which could happen, sure. But in that world, if we don't have universal healthcare, those people are still dying. They're just dying outside of hospital without health care instead of in hospital waiting lines. If we don't have enough resources to make sure every person who needs medical care gets it, then that's an independent problem to the question of "How do we allocate our medical resources."

 

[User 463088]

Billy Graham's son just said he won't endorse anyone. That the GOP is not the party that it used to be. It's become too secular.

The GOP has become too secular. Let that sink in. Let it sink in real good.

 

[Butts-a-plenty]

The majority of the people in this country have good health insurance though work. It's hard to convince them single payer would be better. That's the gist of it.

 

[Foffy]

Billy Graham's son just said he won't endorse anyone. That the GOP is not the party that it used to be. It's become too secular.

The GOP has become too secular. Let that sink in. Let it sink in real good.

This must be claims from fanfiction! Sources, please~

 

[User 463088]

This must be claims from fanfiction! Sources, please~

It was just on NBC Nightly News.

Not sure if this is the full interview or not. Seemed longer on the news, but maybe it is. If not, the full thing will be up later.

That is not the whole interview. That wasn't aired. On the news, he legitimately said that the GOP has become too secular. They put up the show later on their main webpage. I had to rewind it to make sure I wasn't losing what little of my mind I have left.

 

[Jack Remington]

Christie got the better of that exchange by far.

Honestly, Christie going after Rubio 1x1 would end poorly for Rubio. Christie isn't nearly the low-energy pushover Jeb is.

 

[Foffy]

It was just on NBC Nightly News.

Not sure if this is the full interview or not. Seemed longer on the news, but maybe it is. If not, the full thing will be up later.

That is not the whole interview. That wasn't aired. On the news, he legitimately said that the GOP has become too secular. They put up the show later on their main webpage. I had to rewind it to make sure I wasn't losing what little of my mind I have left.

"Secularism and Communism are no different," he said. "Secularism slowly crept into local politics, state politics, the federal government and Communism - there is not difference as it relates to God. Both are Godless."

So help me Based God...

 

[watershed]

Christie got the better of that exchange by far.

Honestly, Christie going after Rubio 1x1 would end poorly for Rubio. Christie isn't nearly the low-energy pushover Jeb is.

Is there a debate on right now?!

 

[User 463088]

"Secularism and Communism are no different," he said. "Secularism slowly crept into local politics, state politics, the federal government and Communism - there is not difference as it relates to God. Both are Godless."

So help me Based God...

Hopefully they'll put up the full interview. It was...it was scary.

<3 Courtney Act.

 

[danm999]

The establishment candidates are giving me serious vibes of;

Maybe one of them could beat Trump or Cruz but with them all taking potshots at each other and splitting the vote I don't see how he and Cruz don't take the first few primaries.

 

[Jack Remington]

Is there a debate on right now?!

No, it was some back and forth sniping in the media. Mentioned a few posts up.

Christie is really the perfect Rubio-killer. He's like Blastoise to Rubio's Charmander.

 

[Jindrax]

Thanks for the explinations guys, really helpful

 

[Marvie_3]

The establishment candidates are giving me serious vibes of;

Thats pretty accurate. :lol

 

[East Lake]

Billy Graham's son just said he won't endorse anyone. That the GOP is not the party that it used to be. It's become too secular.

The GOP has become too secular. Let that sink in. Let it sink in real good.

Somewhat related. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HJ4Pfvmj3I&t=26m0s

The whole video is gold. Sunday morning paid programming.

 

[Cerium]

No, it was some back and forth sniping in the media. Mentioned a few posts up.

Christie is really the perfect Rubio-killer. He's like Blastoise to Rubio's Charmander.

He reminds me more of Snorlax.

 

[Jack Remington]

There has been decades of FUD about long wait times, people dying by the thousands in hospitals, etc, in every country with universal healthcare. Some people also seem to believe that Canadians come to the U.S. by the millions to use our doctors and escape their communist hellhole.

As a matter of fact, prior to healthcare reform the percentage of Americans who reported unmet medical needs purely due to cost was higher than the percentage of people in most developed countries who reported unmet medical need for all reasons, including wait times.

But facts have never stopped true believers.

 

[platypotamus]

Any way to reach him off of GAF?

I swear I follow him on twitter, but I can't find him on there at the moment because the twitter app is so shitty

 

[danm999]

There has been decades of FUD about long wait times, people dying by the thousands in hospitals, etc, in every country with universal healthcare. Some people also seem to believe that Canadians come to the U.S. by the millions to use our doctors and escape their communist hellhole.

As a matter of fact, prior to healthcare reform the percentage of Americans who reported unmet medical needs purely due to cost was higher than the percentage of people in most developed countries who reported unmet medical need for all reasons, including wait times.

But facts have never stopped true believers.

Healthcare FUD has led to so of the most amazing defences of bullshit I think I've ever seen.

It's hard to choose between "not intended to be a factual statement" and "it's a matter of what's in his heart" for instance.

 

[Hexa]

Trump rally in Claremont, NH.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mq5hrUDoYo

 

[ivysaur12]

lol

http://atr.rollcall.com/steve-israel-will-not-seek-re-election-2016/

Asked who he thought might get into the race on the Democratic side, New York Rep. Charles B. Rangel couldn’t offer a guess, saying,

“Long Island is like Europe to me … It’s almost like the Senate to the House, you know. People think we’re so close to each other. No.”

 

[Sianos]

Healthcare FUD has led to so of the most amazing defences of bullshit I think I've ever seen.

It's hard to choose between "not intended to be a factual statement" and "it's a matter of what's in his heart" for instance.

these two statements really do encapsulate the essence of the current conservative frontrunners and their rhetroic

we have both blatant lies and willful delusion in the face of reality on display in a spectacular fashion

 

[Wilsongt]

I should expect nothing less from Conservatives, but mocking Obama because be showed emotion when he talked about Newtown is disgusting.

 

[Cerium]

Trump quietly builds a data juggernaut

Donald Trump&#8217;s rivals cling to the hope that the surprise GOP presidential frontrunner lacks the know-how to lure supporters to the polls, but POLITICO has learned that his campaign several months ago assembled an experienced data team to build sophisticated models to transform fervor into votes.

The team is led by two low-profile former Republican National Committee data strategists, Matt Braynard and Witold Chrabaszcz, and includes assistance from the political data outfit L2, according to multiple sources familiar with the effort. The data push is focused on integrating information Trump has collected through his campaign website and at voter rallies on non-traditional or unregistered supporters. It also includes commercial data obtained from the RNC and other sources, in an effort to mobilize voters in key early states, the sources said.

Trump&#8217;s campaign, which seems to revel in stories suggesting that its candidate suffers from a lack of organization, declined to comment, as did Braynard and Chrabaszcz.

 

[Iolo]

Didn't he literally just get access to the RNC data file?

edit ... ok they address this in the article. There is some heavy skepticism that having access to the file for just 5 weeks is at all useful. But who knows at this point with Trump.

 

[Cerium]

Didn't he literally just get access to the RNC data file?

That's covered in the article. The RNC agreement just gives him more data (a lot more) to feed into his existing infrastructure.

The goal is to fold all that new and purchased data, which includes contact and other information for supporters who aren&#8217;t registered to vote, into the RNC&#8217;s massive voter file. As POLITICO revealed, the RNC agreed to allow Trump to use the party&#8217;s voter file in late November or early December. That agreement, which is similar to those the party reached with most of the other presidential campaigns, gave Trump access to a database containing information on more than 200 million Americans without any upfront payment. It did, however, require him to pledge to support the GOP&#8217;s eventual nominee and to feed back to the RNC any new data his campaign collects.

But Bill Skelly, a longtime RNC data operative, vouched for both Braynard and Chrabaszcz, with whom he&#8217;s crossed paths over the last 15 years.

&#8220;Having access to the RNC file and two people who understand it is valuable,&#8221; said Skelly, explaining he worked more closely with Chrabaszcz, who was responsible for cleaning up state voter roll data and putting it into the national RNC file: &#8220;Vito is outstanding with data. He&#8217;s a real good data manipulator.&#8221;

 

[Aaron Strife]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...971ed6-b3d0-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

==


Trump and Cruz Response:

Funny how this is like the exact opposite of 2012. The establishment is split against the teabaggers who are sucking up all the votes.

Except even if Rubio, Christie, Bush and Kasich combined their support they still wouldn't come near Romney's support.

 

[Iolo]

Vito's a real good data manipulator, see. He may just rearrange the data on your face if ya know what I mean.

 

[B-Dubs]

Didn't he literally just get access to the RNC data file?

edit ... ok they address this in the article. There is some heavy skepticism that having access to the file for just 5 weeks is at all useful. But who knows at this point with Trump.

Considering who he's got running that data team, and how long they've been setting it up, he should be able to hit the ground running.

Fucking hell, this bet I made feels way too safe at this point.

 

[Cerium]

Fucking hell, this bet I made feels way too safe at this point.

You can imagine how I feel!

 

[B-Dubs]

You can imagine how I feel!

I could never even dream about putting down that kind of money. How do you even sleep at night?

I'd honestly feel better if he was doing worse.

 

[Cerium]

I could never even dream about putting down that kind of money. How do you even sleep at night?

On piles of Trump shares rapidly appreciating in value.

 

[Jack Remington]

Dude is playing the part of the drunk idiot at the table trying to hit an inside straight only to lay down trips aces after the river.

Talking about Trump.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Jeb's going to pull out a miracle I can feel it.

 

[Tarkus]

Y'all got gambling problems. Stay out of Vegas.

 

[danm999]

I made a sensible $10 bet with a friend that Trump would make it further than Rubio and so far I'm feeling reasonably secure in that. He wanted to go higher but I'm no Mitt Romney.

 

[Iolo]

Deep down, I still feel Trump's campaign is 100% bluster, despite current polling. Call me GOPe if you want.

 

[Jack Remington]

Y'all got gambling problems. Stay out of Vegas.

It's investing. I own 1000 shares of Trump for Republican nominee which I expect to appreciate in value.

 

[Y2Kev]

I've now seen every possible argument about Trump's organization, especially in Iowa. It sucks! It's great! He's a master! He's a joke! He has all of Santorum and Huckabee's field captains! Ivanka is the only one on the field!

 

[ivysaur12]

I've now seen every possible argument about Trump's organization, especially in Iowa. It sucks! It's great! He's a master! He's a joke! He has all of Santorum and Huckabee's field captains! Ivanka is the only one on the field!

It's so true, lol. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[B-Dubs]

Dude is playing the part of the drunk idiot at the table trying to hit an inside straight only to lay down trips aces after the river.

Talking about Trump.

When everyone else has hands full of jokers that may just be enough.

I've now seen every possible argument about Trump's organization, especially in Iowa. It sucks! It's great! He's a master! He's a joke! He has all of Santorum and Huckabee's field captains! Ivanka is the only one on the field!

Seriously, it's impossible to get a real picture of what's going on with him on the ground.