PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

Status
Not open for further replies.
So friends I started working at a nonprofit in DC this week that is involved in the election. I'll be sure to provide any info here that I know that isn't confidential!
 
Jindrax said:
wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?
Click to expand...

There has been a social meme here that socialized hospitals means waiting lists and slow care. In fact, this is actually one of the top five arguments made against a universal health care system.

Let that speak volume to the psychological blockage this country faces.

A majority does value a single payer system, but only a little over half.

The problem I and others have with Obamacare is it's merely patchwork to a system so broken that all of the good it does, it's working in a defective model. At least, that's the argument of reason: the other side of the coin genuinely hates Obama and government control, so they want to leave it to the for-profit medical industry which already exploits people with chargemasters and the like.
 
Jindrax said:
wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?
Click to expand...

Not all of us think that way. A lot of us would like to have a single payer system. However, we also accept political realities and know we can't have everything we want right now. Polling from July through now shows that Americans disapprove of Obamacare by an average of 7%. Of course, some of those don't approve because it doesn't go far enough. Some don't like any government intervention. But, ya, some people are still pissed about Obamacare, calling it worse than slavery.

Then there are also those misinformed people who think the American way is best because "Fuck ya Murica!" These people are myopic, close minded and often ignorant. The problem is, they vote and have big mouths. You hear them more than you hear the more sensible people.

I also think it's important to remember that it's hard to generalize about Americans. We're a huge country, geographically and often culturally diverse. Even among people that freely associate with each other (ie. a New York Democrat versus an Alabaman Democrat) are completely different due to heritage and life experiences.

I think, and this is just my opinion, one reason we never moved towards a nationalized health system is that after WW2, we didn't have to do the rebuilding most European countries did. By and large, we were spared the true horrors of the war, so we kinda just went back to life as usual. Had we needed to rebuild, we probably would have been willing/able to make some more sweeping changes.
 
Jindrax said:
wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?
Click to expand...
Universal healthcare polls fairly well among regular people, not so much with political elites though, so it doesn't get much traction.
 
Jindrax said:
wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?
Click to expand...

It is widespread enough for it to be an issue many people don't want it to be fixed in a particular way. At the same time many Americans want the healthcare system to be a single payer system, it is a polarized issue.
 
Trump going birther on Cruz.

“Republicans are going to have to ask themselves the question: ‘Do we want a candidate who could be tied up in court for two years?’ That’d be a big problem,” Trump said when asked about the topic. “It’d be a very precarious one for Republicans because he’d be running and the courts may take a long time to make decision. You don’t want to be running and have that kind of thing over your head.”

Trump added, “I’d hate to see something like that get in his way. But a lot of people are talking about it and I know that even some states are looking at it very strongly, the fact that he was born in Canada and he has had a double passport.”

Catherine Frazier, a spokeswoman for Cruz, declined to comment Tuesday.
Click to expand...

I wonder how he's going to spin this comment when he picks Cruz as his running mate.
 
Apparently, Bernie "Approved by Lil B" Sanders wants to propose something very interesting. It might sound like an attack on the super evil oligarchy, but I am legit shook there are small hints of a basic income proposition, albeit one like Alaska has. It's not the ideal, but like the ACA, something even proposing a start should be appreciated, so long as it doesn't stay locked as mere proposal. I don't think nothing will come from this proposal, but holy shit, something even along the lines of a UBI-like idea in America, in 2016? Even being entertained? Fucking hold me.

I do wish more politicians talked about it. Hillary's answer on this topic genuinely offended me. This was her answer, and her Neo-based influence left me dead for a few hours.

“I certainly don’t have all the answers. But we have to resolve these questions while embracing the promise and potential of these new technologies and without stifling innovation or limiting the ability of working moms and veterans and young people to get ahead.”

That's about as generic as a non answer as you'll ever get from a politician. Sanders original response to this was bad, too, but it at least talked about poverty and basic income in a genuine manner.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...971ed6-b3d0-11e5-a842-0feb51d1d124_story.html

Christie mocked Rubio as naive in the arts of political street fighting — “He’s never been in a tough race in his life,” he said dismissively — and tore into Rubio’s work in the “Gang of Eight” on a 2013 immigration bill that has since become anathema to conservatives.

“The guy who advocated for amnesty and then ran away when the topic got too hot tells you two things: He’s not a reliable conservative, A, and, B, whenever it gets too hot, Marco turns tail and runs,” he said. “I’m not the least bit concerned that Marco Rubio will hurt me with conservatives. Marco Rubio has work himself to do with conservatives.”

Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Kasich attacked Christie by comparing their records as governor. “Here in Ohio, we have a balanced budget; they don’t over in New Jersey,” he said. “Our credit has been strengthened; their credit has been downgraded. We’ve got more jobs.”
Click to expand...
==
“There’s nothing in them that’s inaccurate,” Rubio said. “I guess the point is something I would say, too, and that is that this country cannot afford a president that’s not going to reverse the direction Barack Obama’s taken our country. We can’t have another president that supports Common Core or gun control or expanding Obamacare.”

Christie swatted back at Rubio in the Post interview.

“If Marco thinks that . . . having his big donors from Madison Avenue put a few ads up in New Hampshire is going to shake me, that just again shows his inexperience and shows you what he’ll be like against Hillary Clinton,” he said. “If he’s overreacting to this — now — that just proves my point that he’s not ready to be the nominee.”
Click to expand...

Trump and Cruz Response:

giphy.gif
 
Jindrax said:
wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?
Click to expand...

One thing nobody has mentioned yet which is the thing that is kind well, the undercurrent of all of this is...race.

Southern White's (who are the main problem - without that region of the country, we'd basically be Canada. That's not to say there is no racism in other parts of the country, but degrees) were fine with federal spending during the New Deal and pre-Civil Rights Era when that spending went to white people.

(Note, that's an oversimplification, but it's largely true.)

But, when LBJ and Democrat's started handing over things to black people (and later, brown people), that's when the true backlash began and as a result, the resultant myth of bootstraps and such began percolating among the right.

That's why whenever new social spending is proposed, the first attacks will about "lazy" or "welfare cheats" or "the problems of black culture" will be brought up on the conservative side of the aisle. Plus, if you can keep the brown or black folk down, you'll feel better about yourself, even if you're a poor white guy.
 
Jindrax said:
wow ok some of these arguments are completely baffling to me.
Especially this one: It would create cramped hospitals where people wait for months or years to get surgery, and people die in emergency rooms because they can't get care quickly enough.

Now the media here tends to paint the picture that ALL Americans appear to think this way which I know is an exaggeration. But how widespread are these opinions? Definitely the majority?
And how big is the issue exactly? Are people upset about this on a daily basis? And Obamacare? This got implemented started 2016 if I understood it correctly? Are people still upset about this?
Click to expand...

I have heard the argument of hospital overcrowding from my peers before, yes. Although, overwhelming the argument I hear against it is something along the lines of "I've worked hard and done a lot to get myself health insurance. Why should I have to now pay for the health care of someone who is lazy and can't earn it for themselves." Or something along those lines.

I think polls show that the majority of Americans (or maybe plurality, I dunno) would be okay with a single payer system. But in between what people want and what people get is a whole shit ton of politics that muddy the water and make it damn near impossible. But healthcare is definitely still an issue. Some people are still very upset about Obamacare and want to repeal it, while others are still very upset that our system (even as it has been improved by Obamacare) is failing so many people.

The hospital overcrowding argument is also one of the weirdest ones to me. I used to see it a lot back before Obamacare passed (Less so now). The argument is basically "We have a lot of people who need medical care. If we allow them all to go to hospitals, people will die waiting for care." Which could happen, sure. But in that world, if we don't have universal healthcare, those people are still dying. They're just dying outside of hospital without health care instead of in hospital waiting lines. If we don't have enough resources to make sure every person who needs medical care gets it, then that's an independent problem to the question of "How do we allocate our medical resources."
 
Billy Graham's son just said he won't endorse anyone. That the GOP is not the party that it used to be. It's become too secular.

The GOP has become too secular. Let that sink in. Let it sink in real good.
 
The majority of the people in this country have good health insurance though work. It's hard to convince them single payer would be better. That's the gist of it.
 
adam387 said:
Billy Graham's son just said he won't endorse anyone. That the GOP is not the party that it used to be. It's become too secular.

The GOP has become too secular. Let that sink in. Let it sink in real good.
Click to expand...

tumblr_mjicpggMej1qlvwnco1_400.gif


This must be claims from fanfiction! Sources, please~
 
Foffy said:
tumblr_mjicpggMej1qlvwnco1_400.gif


This must be claims from fanfiction! Sources, please~
Click to expand...

It was just on NBC Nightly News.

Not sure if this is the full interview or not. Seemed longer on the news, but maybe it is. If not, the full thing will be up later.

That is not the whole interview. That wasn't aired. On the news, he legitimately said that the GOP has become too secular. They put up the show later on their main webpage. I had to rewind it to make sure I wasn't losing what little of my mind I have left.
 
Christie got the better of that exchange by far.

Honestly, Christie going after Rubio 1x1 would end poorly for Rubio. Christie isn't nearly the low-energy pushover Jeb is.
 
adam387 said:
It was just on NBC Nightly News.

Not sure if this is the full interview or not. Seemed longer on the news, but maybe it is. If not, the full thing will be up later.

That is not the whole interview. That wasn't aired. On the news, he legitimately said that the GOP has become too secular. They put up the show later on their main webpage. I had to rewind it to make sure I wasn't losing what little of my mind I have left.
Click to expand...

"Secularism and Communism are no different," he said. "Secularism slowly crept into local politics, state politics, the federal government and Communism - there is not difference as it relates to God. Both are Godless."

tumblr_n1y25kAhLF1rosb88o1_500.gif


So help me Based God...
 
Foffy said:
"Secularism and Communism are no different," he said. "Secularism slowly crept into local politics, state politics, the federal government and Communism - there is not difference as it relates to God. Both are Godless."

tumblr_n1y25kAhLF1rosb88o1_500.gif


So help me Based God...
Click to expand...

Hopefully they'll put up the full interview. It was...it was scary.

<3 Courtney Act.
 
The establishment candidates are giving me serious vibes of;
tumblr_n055oh2uqq1s5tlmxo1_500.gif


Maybe one of them could beat Trump or Cruz but with them all taking potshots at each other and splitting the vote I don't see how he and Cruz don't take the first few primaries.
 
There has been decades of FUD about long wait times, people dying by the thousands in hospitals, etc, in every country with universal healthcare. Some people also seem to believe that Canadians come to the U.S. by the millions to use our doctors and escape their communist hellhole.

As a matter of fact, prior to healthcare reform the percentage of Americans who reported unmet medical needs purely due to cost was higher than the percentage of people in most developed countries who reported unmet medical need for all reasons, including wait times.

But facts have never stopped true believers.
 
Jack Remington said:
There has been decades of FUD about long wait times, people dying by the thousands in hospitals, etc, in every country with universal healthcare. Some people also seem to believe that Canadians come to the U.S. by the millions to use our doctors and escape their communist hellhole.

As a matter of fact, prior to healthcare reform the percentage of Americans who reported unmet medical needs purely due to cost was higher than the percentage of people in most developed countries who reported unmet medical need for all reasons, including wait times.

But facts have never stopped true believers.
Click to expand...

Healthcare FUD has led to so of the most amazing defences of bullshit I think I've ever seen.

It's hard to choose between "not intended to be a factual statement" and "it's a matter of what's in his heart" for instance.
 
I should expect nothing less from Conservatives, but mocking Obama because be showed emotion when he talked about Newtown is disgusting.
 
Trump quietly builds a data juggernaut

Donald Trump&#8217;s rivals cling to the hope that the surprise GOP presidential frontrunner lacks the know-how to lure supporters to the polls, but POLITICO has learned that his campaign several months ago assembled an experienced data team to build sophisticated models to transform fervor into votes.

The team is led by two low-profile former Republican National Committee data strategists, Matt Braynard and Witold Chrabaszcz, and includes assistance from the political data outfit L2, according to multiple sources familiar with the effort. The data push is focused on integrating information Trump has collected through his campaign website and at voter rallies on non-traditional or unregistered supporters. It also includes commercial data obtained from the RNC and other sources, in an effort to mobilize voters in key early states, the sources said.

Trump&#8217;s campaign, which seems to revel in stories suggesting that its candidate suffers from a lack of organization, declined to comment, as did Braynard and Chrabaszcz.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Didn't he literally just get access to the RNC data file?

edit ... ok they address this in the article. There is some heavy skepticism that having access to the file for just 5 weeks is at all useful. But who knows at this point with Trump.
 
Iolo said:
Didn't he literally just get access to the RNC data file?
Click to expand...

That's covered in the article. The RNC agreement just gives him more data (a lot more) to feed into his existing infrastructure.

The goal is to fold all that new and purchased data, which includes contact and other information for supporters who aren&#8217;t registered to vote, into the RNC&#8217;s massive voter file. As POLITICO revealed, the RNC agreed to allow Trump to use the party&#8217;s voter file in late November or early December. That agreement, which is similar to those the party reached with most of the other presidential campaigns, gave Trump access to a database containing information on more than 200 million Americans without any upfront payment. It did, however, require him to pledge to support the GOP&#8217;s eventual nominee and to feed back to the RNC any new data his campaign collects.
Click to expand...
But Bill Skelly, a longtime RNC data operative, vouched for both Braynard and Chrabaszcz, with whom he&#8217;s crossed paths over the last 15 years.

&#8220;Having access to the RNC file and two people who understand it is valuable,&#8221; said Skelly, explaining he worked more closely with Chrabaszcz, who was responsible for cleaning up state voter roll data and putting it into the national RNC file: &#8220;Vito is outstanding with data. He&#8217;s a real good data manipulator.&#8221;
Click to expand...
 
Iolo said:
Didn't he literally just get access to the RNC data file?

edit ... ok they address this in the article. There is some heavy skepticism that having access to the file for just 5 weeks is at all useful. But who knows at this point with Trump.
Click to expand...

Considering who he's got running that data team, and how long they've been setting it up, he should be able to hit the ground running.

Fucking hell, this bet I made feels way too safe at this point.
 
Dude is playing the part of the drunk idiot at the table trying to hit an inside straight only to lay down trips aces after the river.

Talking about Trump.
 
I made a sensible $10 bet with a friend that Trump would make it further than Rubio and so far I'm feeling reasonably secure in that. He wanted to go higher but I'm no Mitt Romney.
 
I've now seen every possible argument about Trump's organization, especially in Iowa. It sucks! It's great! He's a master! He's a joke! He has all of Santorum and Huckabee's field captains! Ivanka is the only one on the field!
 
Y2Kev said:
I've now seen every possible argument about Trump's organization, especially in Iowa. It sucks! It's great! He's a master! He's a joke! He has all of Santorum and Huckabee's field captains! Ivanka is the only one on the field!
Click to expand...

It's so true, lol. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
Jack Remington said:
Dude is playing the part of the drunk idiot at the table trying to hit an inside straight only to lay down trips aces after the river.

Talking about Trump.
Click to expand...

When everyone else has hands full of jokers that may just be enough.

Y2Kev said:
I've now seen every possible argument about Trump's organization, especially in Iowa. It sucks! It's great! He's a master! He's a joke! He has all of Santorum and Huckabee's field captains! Ivanka is the only one on the field!
Click to expand...

Seriously, it's impossible to get a real picture of what's going on with him on the ground.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
393 394 395 396 397
20K
2M
Zaraki_Kenpachi replied
  • Locked
UK PoliGAF |OT3| - Strong and Stable Government? No. Coalition Of Chaos!
37 38 39 40 41
2K
255K
firehawk12 replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
395 396 397 398 399
20K
1M
PKrockin replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
395 396 397 398 399
20K
2M
RDreamer replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
The Technomancer replied
Top Bottom