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[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Carly Fiorina accused of 'ambushing' children for anti-abortion rally

What a pleasant person.

 

[HylianTom]

The behind-the-scenes argument over Trump vs Cruz among party elites continues..

Donald Trump or Ted Cruz? Republicans Argue Over Who Is Greater Threat

Conservative intellectuals have become convinced that Mr. Trump, with his message of nationalist-infused populism, poses an existential threat to conservatism, and plan to issue a manifesto on Friday to try to stop him.

This quote is a standout:

Of course, this willingness to accommodate Mr. Trump is driven in part by the fact that few among the Republican professional class believe he would win a general election. In the minds of these Republicans, it would be better to effectively rent the party to Mr. Trump for four months this fall, through the general election, than risk turning it over Mr. Cruz for at least four years, as either the president or the next-in-line leader for the 2020 nomination.

They're openly talking about losing in November. But aside from this, I love the uncertainty around this whole thing. There's too much to quote from the article - party officials, thought leaders, media personalities.. they're all over the place.

 

[B-Dubs]

The behind-the-scenes argument over Trump vs Cruz among party elites continues..

Donald Trump or Ted Cruz? Republicans Argue Over Who Is Greater Threat



This quote is a standout:


They're openly talking about losing in November. But aside from this, I love the uncertainty around this whole thing. There's too much to quote from the article - party officials, thought leaders, media personalities.. they're all over the place.

I've got to sit down and read through this at lunch today, looks really good.

 

[Fenderputty]

Thank you.

I am so tired of liberals parroting the same taking points as republicans, that if we simply nominated someone liberal enough, the democrats in the state would be enthused enough to vote in midterms, completely ignoring that the midterm electorate is not a liberal one, and if we want to win we need to nominate moderates.

Or have the liberal electorate wake the fuck up during the midterms. I don't think this is accomplished by simply electing a liberal president though. Unlike the tea party, a left wing grassroots movement wouldn't have Koch money backing it either. Regardless, if liberals want more progressive legislation they need to do just that and not focus on simply the top spot.

I do think that economically we're further right than we've ever been. All one has to do is look at tax rates. Even the great liberal victory Obamacare is a result of a right wing think tank. Its a right wing band-aid the left has taken credit for because the right also can't work with a black man.

That being said this concept of accelerationism is fucking stupid and ignores the way the system we have in place and how to work within it.

 

[Kyosaiga]

Cruz is an idiot. The entire point of politics is making friends and connections but what does he do? Makes an ass out of himself so much that his party would rather lose an election where they will likely lose the Supreme Court for a generation or two than have him as a the de facto leader of the GOP by virtue of being president of the United States.

And he thinks he's ready to be the most powerful man in the world? As if.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Or have the liberal electorate wake the fuck up during the midterms. I don't think this is accomplished by simply electing a liberal president though. Unlike the tea party, a left wing grassroots movement wouldn't have Koch money backing it either. Regardless, if liberals want more progressive legislation they need to do just that and not focus on simply the top spot.

I do think that economically we're further right than we've ever been. All one has to do is look at tax rates. Even the great liberal victory Obamacare is a result of a right wing think tank. Its a right wing band-aid the left has taken credit for because the right also can't work with a black man.

That being said this concept of accelerationism is fucking stupid and ignores the way the system we have in place and how to work within it.

Democrats don't have much of a liberal electorate in the plains and south so any coalition to win there will include moderates no matter the turnout.

 

[PBY]

"Wacko @glennbeck is a sad answer to the @SarahPalinUSA endorsement that Cruz so desperately wanted," Trump tweeted Thursday morning. "Glenn is a failing, crying, lost soul!"


Is this wise?

 

[ivysaur12]

"Wacko @glennbeck is a sad answer to the @SarahPalinUSA endorsement that Cruz so desperately wanted," Trump tweeted Thursday morning. "Glenn is a failing, crying, lost soul!"


Is this wise?

I've stopped second guessing his attacks.

 

[Fenderputty]

Democrats don't have much of a liberal electorate in the plains and south so any coalition to win there will include moderates no matter the turnout.

Some moderate democrats are better than no moderate democrats if the goal is passing liberal legislation though.

 

[B-Dubs]

"Wacko @glennbeck is a sad answer to the @SarahPalinUSA endorsement that Cruz so desperately wanted," Trump tweeted Thursday morning. "Glenn is a failing, crying, lost soul!"


Is this wise?

Trump knows what the GOP base wants better than the actual GOP, so I'd say yes.

It looks like Trump's taking my advice and just bludgeoning Cruz with whatever he can find at this point.

 

[PBY]

Trump knows what the GOP base wants better than the actual GOP, so I'd say yes.

It looks like Trump's taking my advice and just bludgeoning Cruz with whatever he can find at this point.

Lol what's crazy is that at this point Trump's best shot in Iowa might be to pick up a few percentage points of establishment support.

 

[sangreal]

"Wacko @glennbeck is a sad answer to the @SarahPalinUSA endorsement that Cruz so desperately wanted," Trump tweeted Thursday morning. "Glenn is a failing, crying, lost soul!"


Is this wise?

glennbeck is not very popular anymore

plus he shits on trump and palin all the time, so it certainly won't hurt trump w/ his base

 

[Aaron Strife]

Some serious damage control if Republicans think Trump is meaningfully less damaging to the brand than Cruz.

I could see Trump having more success with working class whites, but they're worried about Cruz as an extremist compared to the guy who says we should deport 11 million immigrants, build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, and bar all Muslims from coming in?

I suppose Trump could just be seen as his own thing whereas Cruz would more represent what the establishment GOP is, but this has not worked out for the GOP at all.

 

[Makai]

TrumpScript programming language

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/donald-trump-in-a-programming-language

No floating point numbers, only integers. America never does anything halfway.

All numbers must be strictly greater than 1 million. The small stuff is inconsequential to us.

There are no import statements allowed. All code has to be home-grown and American made.

Instead of True and False, we have fact and lie.

Only the most popular English words, Trump's favorite words, and current politician names can be used as variable names.

Error messages are mostly quotes directly taken from Trump himself.

All programs must end with "America is great."

Our language will automatically correct Forbes' $4.5B to $10B.

In its raw form, TrumpScript is not compatible with Windows, because Trump isn't the type of guy to believe in PC.

The language is completely case insensitive.

 

[Aaron Strife]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...mns-blogs/under-the-dome/article55701750.html

DSCC endorsing Deborah Ross for NC Senate. Guess they figure with Trump as a significant possibility they might as well go all in.

Come on gimme that ten seat pickup.

 

[ivysaur12]

NPR did an interesting segment on betting on presidential elections in the US at the turn of the last century:

That's bizarre.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...mns-blogs/under-the-dome/article55701750.html

DSCC endorsing Deborah Ross for NC Senate. Guess they figure with Trump as a significant possibility they might as well go all in.

Come on gimme that ten seat pickup.

Here we go!

 

[sangreal]

So what did Nate Silver say on Chris Hayes' show? Did anyone watch it?

I watched it. He didn't really say much. Just that the establishment has decided to use Trump to knock off Cruz early or something to that effect and that he thinks it is a mistake.

I was only half paying attention though, so maybe I missed when he described his 'newfound admiration' or whatever

 

[kingkitty]

Some serious damage control if Republicans think Trump is meaningfully less damaging to the brand than Cruz.

I could see Trump having more success with working class whites, but they're worried about Cruz as an extremist compared to the guy who says we should deport 11 million immigrants, build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, and bar all Muslims from coming in?

I suppose Trump could just be seen as his own thing whereas Cruz would more represent what the establishment GOP is, but this has not worked out for the GOP at all.

yeah...it seems like establishment Republicans are suffering from incredible tunnel vision.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

"Wacko @glennbeck is a sad answer to the @SarahPalinUSA endorsement that Cruz so desperately wanted," Trump tweeted Thursday morning. "Glenn is a failing, crying, lost soul!"


Is this wise?

Beck isn't much these days but I don't think Trump expected the degree of Palin crazy he got either.

 

[The Technomancer]

Some serious damage control if Republicans think Trump is meaningfully less damaging to the brand than Cruz.

I could see Trump having more success with working class whites, but they're worried about Cruz as an extremist compared to the guy who says we should deport 11 million immigrants, build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, and bar all Muslims from coming in?

I suppose Trump could just be seen as his own thing whereas Cruz would more represent what the establishment GOP is, but this has not worked out for the GOP at all.

I imagine the math goes something like this:

Trumps ideas are so insane they'll never get passed. Even with a GOP House and Senate no, 11 million people are not being deported

Cruz's ideas are just sane enough that they could actually find traction and having that sort of stuff really implemented could seriously seriously harm them long term

 

[Fenderputty]

Republicans think Trump is meaningfully less damaging to the brand than Cruz.

This concept is mind-boggling to me.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Some serious damage control if Republicans think Trump is meaningfully less damaging to the brand than Cruz.

I could see Trump having more success with working class whites, but they're worried about Cruz as an extremist compared to the guy who says we should deport 11 million immigrants, build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, and bar all Muslims from coming in?

I suppose Trump could just be seen as his own thing whereas Cruz would more represent what the establishment GOP is, but this has not worked out for the GOP at all.

NYT has a really brilliant article today on how the Trump / Cruz debate is splitting conservative officials and intellectuals. I really get the thinking much better after reading this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/us/politics/donald-trump-ted-cruz-republican-establishment.html

 

[ivysaur12]

NYT has a really brilliant article today on how the Trump / Cruz debate is splitting conservative officials and intellectuals. I really get the thinking much better after reading this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/22/us/politics/donald-trump-ted-cruz-republican-establishment.html

I don't understand this line of thinking at all! Donald would be immeasurably worse than Cruz! Kristol is right(!) here:

Mr. Kristol, the editor of The Weekly Standard, said the personal contempt for Mr. Cruz among some Republican insiders was blinding.

“Cruz is so hated in Washington that there’s this distortion about him that he’s outside the bounds of what is plausible in American politics,” Mr. Kristol said.

 

[gutter_trash]

This concept is mind-boggling to me.

Its likeability.

As outrageous Trump's words are, he is still more liked then Cruz.

Plus Trump has managed to sway uneducated blue collar union workers (some)

Nobody likes Cruz

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

If they're already talking about eating a loss in November, shouldn't they just put Cruz up as a sacrifice? Won't they just have to deal with him AGAIN in 2020 if Trump is the nominee and loses? I don't see how Cruz would meaningfully be in the conversation to lose twice in a row to Hillary Clinton.

Or if they're resigning themselves to a loss, shouldn't they just run a third candidate then, salvage some of the downballot and divorce themselves from the other loon?

 

[NeoXChaos]

If they're already talking about eating a loss in November, shouldn't they just put Cruz up as a sacrifice? Won't they just have to deal with him AGAIN in 2020 if Trump is the nominee and loses? I don't see how Cruz would meaningfully be in the conversation to lose twice in a row to Hillary Clinton.

Or if they're resigning themselves to a loss, shouldn't they just run a third candidate then, salvage some of the downballot and divorce themselves from the other loon?

exactly. Cruz is definitely running again if he loses to Trump.

 

[Coriolanus]

Trunp is less damaging because a narrative that Trump is not the Republican Party is a far easier sell than a narrative that Cruz doesn't represent the party. One is a politician and the other isn't.

They're most likely correct in their assesment. Now all they need is to say that they'll just let him do his thing and focus their resources on local races instead and i can fire up the u mad benji? post. (

 

[sangreal]

The thing is, their hatred of Cruz is personal

It's not that they disagree with him or anything

 

[Gotchaye]

I think the idea is that Trump is sui generis. He's not a long-term threat to the party because his influence isn't going to outlast his candidacy. He's a symptom of the internal problems the party has, but he's not going to make them worse. And Trump isn't very motivated to make sure that the party stays on the path he's on. Cruz is a much more traditional politician, who's also a true believer, and who probably personally dislikes many of the people who personally dislike him. They want him away from the party machinery.

And like Coriolanus just said it's also easier to sell everyone else on the idea that Trump was some weird hiccup on the path to a new, minority-loving Republican Party, even if he sounds worse than Cruz when he talks.

 

[Black Republican]

Not so fast!

Monmouth IA Poll (1/18-1/19):

Cruz 27%
Trump 25%
Carson 11%
Rubio 9%
Bush 7%

Edit: Oh, it's from Monmouth College, not University.

Cruz could easily win Iowa if nearly all of Carsons supporters jumped ship to him

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I think the idea is that Trump is sui generis. He's not a long-term threat to the party because his influence isn't going to outlast his candidacy. He's a symptom of the internal problems the party has, but he's not going to make them worse.

Yes, this is it. Cruz really is the inheritor of the John Birch style isolationism that Republicans thought they destroyed back in the Cold War. They're willing to do almost anything to keep that from coming back, including nominating Donald Trump to be President.

 

[delirium]

Fuck it. I've never donated to a campaign before but I'm going to donate to Hillary's.

How much spam do normal campaigns send out to the email and phone provided?

 

[ivysaur12]

I think the idea is that Trump is sui generis. He's not a long-term threat to the party because his influence isn't going to outlast his candidacy. He's a symptom of the internal problems the party has, but he's not going to make them worse. And Trump isn't very motivated to make sure that the party stays on the path he's on. Cruz is a much more traditional politician, who's also a true believer, and who probably personally dislikes many of the people who personally dislike him. They want him away from the party machinery.

And like Coriolanus just said it's also easier to sell everyone else on the idea that Trump was some weird hiccup on the path to a new, minority-loving Republican Party, even if he sounds worse than Cruz when he talks.

Just wait until Cruz comes back with a vengeance in 2020!

2 Ted 2 Cruz

 

[Aaron Strife]

Fuck it. I've never donated to a campaign before but I'm going to donate to Hillary's.

How much spam do normal campaigns send out to the email and phone provided?

I got pretty regular emails from her (and Bernie's campaign), but you can unsubscribe and it's pretty hassle free.

The thing to look out for is you'll probably start getting emails from other campaigns as these organizations tend to share donor lists.

 

[HylianTom]

Nate has weighed-in:
One Big Reason To Be Less Skeptical Of Trump

Pretty much a recap of last night, I think. He ranks the establishment candidates' chances, and expresses surprise that The Party might've decided on Trump.

 

[User 463088]

Fuck it. I've never donated to a campaign before but I'm going to donate to Hillary's.

How much spam do normal campaigns send out to the email and phone provided?

From her campaign, it's not too bad. I get maybe one every few days, especially if something big like the Palin endorsement comes out. Nothing insane. Just, if you somehow get on the DSCC list opt out immediately. I was getting 2 a day from them. It was ridiculous.

 

[delirium]

Just pulled the trigger and donated $10 so far. We'll see if I keep giving more.

 

[campfireweekend]

Or have the liberal electorate wake the fuck up during the midterms. I don't think this is accomplished by simply electing a liberal president though. Unlike the tea party, a left wing grassroots movement wouldn't have Koch money backing it either. Regardless, if liberals want more progressive legislation they need to do just that and not focus on simply the top spot.

I do think that economically we're further right than we've ever been. All one has to do is look at tax rates. Even the great liberal victory Obamacare is a result of a right wing think tank. Its a right wing band-aid the left has taken credit for because the right also can't work with a black man.

That being said this concept of accelerationism is fucking stupid and ignores the way the system we have in place and how to work within it.

This is incredibly reductive. The top tax rate has converged to around 40% or lower in most OECD countries.

By a similarly reductive argument, our liberal party is more liberal economically than Europe, because some social democratic parties in Europe rode the austerity wave while Obama stick with Keynesian stimulus.

EDIT: Our corporate tax rate is also higher than most OECD countries. Does that also prove how liberal the democratic parry is?

 

[ivysaur12]

I feel as if Cruz's new campaign slogan should be "I'm Not Here To Make Friends".

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

Makai's idea caught on!

All of young Marco's recent ads are going hard after Cruz.

 

[PBY]

All of young Marco's recent ads are going hard after Cruz.

Young Marco's strategy seems to be to attack people who don't matter with respect to him.

 

[Y2Kev]

Young Marco's 3-2-1 (currently 4-4/5-3) plan is interesting. It's like even his advisors believe at some point he will break out.

I believe a third place finish for Jeb! Would be big for him in Iowa. He would probably finish second in NH if he can swing that.

 

[Basileus777]

Young Marco's strategy seems to be to attack people who don't matter with respect to him.

Attacking Cruz actually makes sense for Rubio. It's not like going after Trump would do any good for him.

 

[Fenderputty]

Trunp is less damaging because a narrative that Trump is not the Republican Party is a far easier sell than a narrative that Cruz doesn't represent the party. One is a politician and the other isn't.

This makes sense.

 

[User 463088]

I also think there could be another dynamic in play.

The GOP knows that Cruz is never, ever going to win. Their best chance at a winner is someone they probably know can't be nominated. However, maybe they think Trump has a (small) chance simply for the LOLZ. I mean, a President Trump is not going to be controlled by the party, but I bet he'd go along with most things a GOP Congress passes. So, maybe they've accepted it because Trump can play President, while they control the actual office somehow.

 

[Abinash117]

Trunp is less damaging because a narrative that Trump is not the Republican Party is a far easier sell than a narrative that Cruz doesn't represent the party. One is a politician and the other isn't.

They're most likely correct in their assesment. Now all they need is to say that they'll just let him do his thing and focus their resources on local races instead and i can fire up the u mad benji? post. (

You can't say that when he is the actual nominee that represents the Republican party. It would be very easy to pant the entire GOP party including the senators and house members. That will hurt their image more so than anything. Plus, these guys are stupid. Trump has very reason to listen to any of them when he has the GOP by the balls.

In my opinion the general public hates Trump more than Ted, but it is the other way around for the Republicans officials. If anything people will still be surprised that Trump gets the nominee despite some knowing it is possible. I can really see it being divisive to the party a lot of Republicans disagreeing hugely with the decision and some thinking it would be a great idea.

 

[Fenderputty]

This is incredibly reductive. The top tax rate has converged to around 40% or lower in most OECD countries.

By a similarly reductive argument, our liberal party is more liberal economically than Europe, because some social democratic parties in Europe rode the austerity wave while Obama stick with Keynesian stimulus.

EDIT: Our corporate tax rate is also higher than most OECD countries. Does that also prove how liberal the democratic parry is?

Our effective rates are lower than the OCED average, at least the last time I looked. I'm not sure why you're bringing upper rates in OCED countries or austerity measures in parts of Europe anyway. My comparison was from America in the past to America today. One president using stimulus doesn't invalidate my comparison using tax rates. Wealth redistribution is an ugly word, but only when it redistributes down. We've been happily redistributing money back up since the 80's due to slashing upper rates.

 

[PBY]

Attacking Cruz actually makes sense for Rubio. It's not like going after Trump would do any good for him.

Maybe? I'm not sure what attacking Cruz gets Rubio - Rubio already gonna lose Iowa, where does Cruz support get him in the other states?

 

[Aaron Strife]

I don't think Trump would even do much to rile up the base (thus helping downballot Republicans). Cruz is far more popular among Republicans.

 

[Kyosaiga]

You know I was reading old PoliGAF threads and man B-Dubs and other posters you were praying hard for trump just to make it to the first debate in August.

Hahahaha

Little did we know