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[Aaron Strife]

see the above. I don't need a map that's biased in favor of democratic districts, vulnerable to a veto- I need one that's balanced and reverses the damage done in 2010. population and demographic shifts will take care of the rest. all things considered I prefer to rely on high turnout in 2020 leading to more D congressmen to draw the map, than D governors to try and bargain one via veto.

Why not both?

Spoiler

.jpg

I think you're severely underestimating the power of the veto pen here.

Also, the state legislature elections in 2020 will still be based on the 2010 maps. There's no guarantee that demographic shifts will allow Democrats to pick up key state legislatures. Look at Michigan in 2012. Democrats won 54% of the two-party vote to Republicans' 46% in the House, an 8 point margin. The result? Republicans won an 8 seat majority. Democrats even won the popular vote in 2014 and they lost seats.

Yes, obviously empowering the minorities (and maybe even flipping chambers) is important. So is winning the governor's elections.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Why not both?

Spoiler

.jpg

I think you're severely underestimating the power of the veto pen here.

Also, the state legislature elections in 2020 will still be based on the 2010 maps. There's no guarantee that demographic shifts will allow Democrats to pick up key state legislatures. Look at Michigan in 2012. Democrats won 54% of the two-party vote to Republicans' 46% in the House, an 8 point margin. The result? Republicans won an 8 seat majority. Democrats even won the popular vote in 2014 and they lost seats.

Yes, obviously empowering the minorities (and maybe even flipping chambers) is important. So is winning the governor's elections.

HIs wording at the end has got to be a typo. Congressmen do not draw maps. Like Coriolanus said you want to redo the damage every election from 2016-2020 is important.

 

[Veritigo_X]

I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?

the one true king shall prevail

I did like 4 fist pumps while reading this. It's a shame show watchers only got to see the farce they called Stannis Baratheon and not the king himself.

 

[Third Strike]

If Democrats won 201 seats in 2012, which was based on the newly drawn gerrymandered maps and was a presidential year, then shouldn't Democrats be able to at least match that number in 2016? A couple of congressional maps will likely be redrawn before the end of 2016, and if Trump is the nominee, turnout among Democrats could be high. I don't think they'll win the House back, but hopefully it will be more than 201 seats.

 

[B-Dubs]

I did like 4 fist pumps while reading this. It's a shame show watchers only got to see the farce they called Stannis Baratheon and not the king himself.

Stannis was my boy until he

Spoiler

burned his little girl alive

, then I was like:

If he got some redemption in him then let's ride that train!

 

[RustyNails]

Stannis was my boy until he

Spoiler

burned his little girl alive

, then I was like:

If he got some redemption in him then let's ride that train!

In the show he's just a blazing idiot. Half his army deserts before his attack on Winterfell. Because he...does that thing. The remaining are cold, tired and hungry and totally devoid of morale. Roose's Bastard slays them like turkeyshoot when they arrive. He should have gone back and let wildlings join him. Instead he gets decimated. Total loser.

 

[B-Dubs]

In the show he's just a blazing idiot. Half his army deserts before his attack on Winterfell. Because he...does that thing. The remaining are cold, tired and hungry and totally devoid of morale. Roose's Bastard slays them like turkeyshoot when they arrive. He should have gone back and let wildlings join him. Instead he gets decimated. Total loser.

Agreed. He went from THE ONE TRUE KING to a fucking schlub over the course of last season. By the end I was all like, "fuck this shit, let him die." I can only hope that

Spoiler

he's still alive

and that he actually faked doing that thing because

Spoiler

he didn't have the heart

.

 

[Coriolanus]

Stannis was my boy until he

Spoiler

burned his little girl alive

, then I was like:

If he got some redemption in him then let's ride that train!

Shireen is alive, mate.

 

[B-Dubs]

Shireen is alive, mate.

You talking books or show? Cuz I'm talking show. I can't take the way the books are written to be honest so I haven't read them.

 

[Veritigo_X]

They might as well have put Stannis himself on that pyre as far as the show is concerned.

It's too bad that season 7 is too late for primary debates and too early for GE debates. It'd make a good theme for the thread.

 

[RustyNails]

Shireen is alive, mate.

Only in our collective dreams (show watchers)

 

[Coriolanus]

You talking books or show? Cuz I'm talking show. I can't take the way the books are written to be honest so I haven't read them.

Only in our collective dreams (show watchers)

The one true form of entertainment to rule them all.

I'm talking about audiobooks. Eh? Eh?

But really, as PD and Vertigo mentioned, book Stannis aint such a freaking fundie.

And yeah, the prose has been getting worse. DwD had some real problems.

 

[B-Dubs]

The one true form of entertainment to rule them all.

I'm talking about audiobooks. Eh? Eh?

But really, as PD and Vertigo mentioned, book Stannis aint such a freaking fundie.

And yeah, the prose has been getting worse. DwD had some real problems.

Honestly, when I heard he took a long time to put the books out I thought they'd be spectacular. I had to put down the first one like a third of the way through, I just couldn't take it.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Robert CostaVerified account
‏@costareports
Breaking: National GOP leaders now preparing for a brokered convention, per multiple sources. 20+ huddled Monday w/ Priebus and McConnell

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?postshare=5821449782081267&tid=ss_tw

When asked by The Washington Post last week what he thought about a contested convention, Trump said he, too, is preparing for one.

“I don’t think it’s going to be a brokered convention. But if it is, I’d certainly go all the way — and I think I’d have a certain disadvantage,” he said.

“I’ll be disadvantaged,” he continued. “The deal-making, that’s my advantage. My disadvantage is that I’d be going up against guys who grew up with each other, who know each other intimately and I don’t know who they are, okay? That’s a big disadvantage. . . . These kind of guys stay close. They all know each other. They want each other to win.”

 

[Poodlestrike]

Honestly, when I heard he took a long time to put the books out I thought they'd be spectacular. I had to put down the first one like a third of the way through, I just couldn't take it.

Definitely not for everybody.

 

[Coriolanus]

Honestly, when I heard he took a long time to put the books out I thought they'd be spectacular. I had to put down the first one like a third of the way through, I just couldn't take it.

Much like with game development, when a writer takes exponentially longer to put out a product, that's seldom a good sign.

Part of the reason why i like Joe Abercrombie so much, tbh.

 

[B-Dubs]

Definitely not for everybody.

Like, I recognize that he put a lot of work into the plot and the characters but it feels like he just straight up ignored putting that same work into the actual writing of the books.

Much like with game development, when a writer takes exponentially longer to put out a product, that's seldom a good sign.

Part of the reason why i like Joe Abercrombie so much, tbh.

I dunno, there's been plenty of writers that have taken a long time to do a book and it's turned out great.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Costa is reporting the party is planning for a brokered convention. Because that would be the best way to get rid of trump....

 

[B-Dubs]

Costa is reporting the party is planning for a brokered convention. Because that would be the best way to get rid of trump....

They're gonna try and turn it into his Red Wedding? Do they really see no other way?

I can't imagine this will work. They need to get him before the convention. What if he gets enough delegates by then? They'd be fucked.

 

[HylianTom]

Costa is reporting the party is planning for a brokered convention. Because that would be the best way to get rid of trump....

Edit: THIS would warrant an OP.

 

[Aaron Strife]

HIs wording at the end has got to be a typo. Congressmen do not draw maps. Like Coriolanus said you want to redo the damage every election from 2016-2020 is important.

Yup. We need to make sure 2016 and 2020 are great years and that 2018 is fairly neutral. Even with something like 40% turnout (like we saw in Louisiana) should be sufficient to pick off several governor's seats, preserve any House gains made in 2016 and save a couple of our vulnerable red state senators.

That kind of turnout in 2014 probably would have left the Senate closer to 50/50, kept us at around 200 House seats and won us Michigan, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Illinois and Massachusetts' gubernatorial elections. And no one would be talking about Democrats having a midterm problem.

 

[RustyNails]

Costa is reporting the party is planning for a brokered convention. Because that would be the best way to get rid of trump....

Trump will launch 3rd party bid then. Why announce?

 

[Veritigo_X]

“The RNC is neutral in this process and the rules are set until the convention begins next July. Our goal is to ensure a successful nomination and that requires us thinking through every scenario, including a contested convention.”

So these discussions aren't about Trump...

 

[Aaron Strife]

Costa is reporting the party is planning for a brokered convention. Because that would be the best way to get rid of trump....

Is the RNC that stupid?

 

[Basileus777]

Honestly, when I heard he took a long time to put the books out I thought they'd be spectacular. I had to put down the first one like a third of the way through, I just couldn't take it.

The longer he writes, the worse the books get. They're well written for genre fiction (at least the first 3 books), but they're not some amazing works of literature.

 

[Coriolanus]

They're gonna try and turn it into his Red Wedding? Do they really see no other way?

I can't imagine this will work. They need to get him before the convention. What if he gets enough delegates by then? They'd be fucked.

They might be looking at this through a "we're already fucked, might as well try it" prism.

Still say it's highly unlikely, but raw panic does wondrous things to the mind.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Kyle Kondik ‏@kkondik 51s51 seconds ago
Key factor for contested con - other Rs won't cede nomination to Trump like Santo ceded to Mitt in 2012. Heck, Cruz might not cede to anyone

.

I wonder what internal data the GOP possesses that would lead them to think that no one other candidate can get the job done against Trump. They're not going to make this kind of move lightly.

The party has no legal obligation to hand the nomination to Trump if he acquired the number of delegates to be the nominee despite winning them in a democratic voting process set by rules the party can change at any point in time. As unfair and cruel as that sounds the party has that power. Reince is not going to jail for denying Trump the nomination of the Republican Party. He can overturn the will of the people in the primary.

Catastrophe for the party to do that? Yes but they at that point(convention) are screwed no matter what they do.

 

[HylianTom]

I wonder what internal data the GOP possesses that would lead them to think that no one other candidate can get the job done against Trump. They're not going to make this kind of move lightly.

 

[B-Dubs]

I wonder what internal data the GOP possesses that would lead them to think that no one other candidate can get the job done against Trump. They're not going to make this kind of move lightly.

It might be a combination of everything we're seeing and their own internal data saying the exact same thing. Those Luntz focus groups are the scariest shit in years and I'll bet anything he's done a bunch more of them for the GOP brass that we don't know about.

 

[Macho Madness]

Cue Trump's third party run...

 

[Coriolanus]

The real question is what kind of data they have that makes them believe that such a move wouldn't result in Trump going indie.

 

[B-Dubs]

The real question is what kind of data they have that makes them believe that such a move wouldn't result in Trump going indie.

They might be thinking that a Trump indie run would hurt downticket races less than Trump being the standard barer.

 

[dramatis]

The real question is what kind of data they have that makes them believe that such a move wouldn't result in Trump going indie.

Let's be honest, it doesn't matter what they do, they're fucked either way.

 

[Coriolanus]

They might be thinking that a Trump indie run would hurt downticket races less than Trump being the standard barer.

That is probably the case, yes, but then... you're also handing the democrats a monster of a narrative. "GOP IN DISARRAY, BACKSTABS FRONTRUNNER, SUBVERTS DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. YOUR VOTES DONT MATTER TO THEM"

Would be very easy to push for a narrative that resonates wonderfully with the anti-establishment, especially in the age of superpacs.


heh, now im left dreaming over how this could be used as push for the expansion of voting rights.

 

[B-Dubs]

That is probably the case, yes, but then... you're also handing the democrats a monster of a narrative. "GOP IN DISARRAY, BACKSTABS FRONTRUNNER, SUBVERTS DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. YOUR VOTES DONT MATTER TO THEM"

Would be very easy to push for a narrative that resonates wonderfully with the anti-establishment, especially in the age of superpacs.

Yea, but if they do it they're basically saying that the presidency is a lost cause this cycle and they're in full damage control mode. Instead of trying to get Rubio or whoever elected they'll be pouring all their money into the senate and house races--and we know how effective money can be at the local level.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Eh, I'm going to agree with Crab. In a non-FPTP system, or in one where the fracturing of the Republican party had made it less necessary to coalesce, you would probably see a fracturing of the "left."

Because the "left" does not necessarily have consistently held or prioritized views on issues. The Democratic party is currently built on a mix of identity politics, labor and/or leftist social democratic views, environmentalists, trade protectionists. But the people belonging to one segment do not always easily fall into another.

 

[Coriolanus]

Yea, but if they do it they're basically saying that the presidency is a lost cause this cycle and they're in full damage control mode. Instead of trying to get Rubio or whoever elected they'll be pouring all their money into the senate and house races--and we know how effective money can be at the local level.

Yeah, it's just... incongruous. For the big, flashy position you'll have all this drama over how you're ignoring your base, and then you're gonna try to convince that same base locally that their voice matters?

I doubt that such a maneuver can be pulled off. Far more likely to result in a whole lot of Cantors.

Either way, yeah, they're fucked.

If they want to salvage the lower posts, far better to just let Trump take it, do what little you can to restrain him, and focus your money and efforts locally. Already an uphill battle without all the aggro that the diss would generate.

 

[RustyNails]

That is probably the case, yes, but then... you're also handing the democrats a monster of a narrative. "GOP IN DISARRAY, BACKSTABS FRONTRUNNER, SUBVERTS DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. YOUR VOTES DONT MATTER TO THEM"

Would be very easy to push for a narrative that resonates wonderfully with the anti-establishment, especially in the age of superpacs.


heh, now im left dreaming over how this could be used as push for the expansion of voting rights.

I think democrats can see the farce. But the strumpets will never go silently into the night. Democrats dont have to do anything. Their dream candidate snubbed by the party leaders? Hell to pay.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I'm skeptical they can get people to turn out for senate / house / local races if the top has no chance. Lots of voters only show up to vote for the president. If that's a lost cause, they'll just stay home.

 

[Basileus777]

For all of this talk of a brokered convention going against Trump, how does that even work with Cruz likely to be one of the top 3 delegate earners? He'd be turning traitor against his own base if he worked with the establishment to appoint Rubio. It'd destroy his credibility with that group.

And as for the Republican party just ignoring the delegates, I can't see that ever happening. Not even with Trump as the alternative.

 

[gutter_trash]

my Hillary victory bet is getting more crystallized everyday

 

[Makai]

For all of this talk of a brokered convention going against Trump, how does that even work with Cruz likely to be one of the top 3 delegate earners? He'd be turning traitor against his own base if he worked with the establishment to appoint Rubio. It'd destroy his credibility with that group.

And as for the Republican party just ignoring the delegates, I can't see that ever happening. Not even with Trump as the alternative.

Trump/Cruz 2016

 

[Officerrob]

Costa is reporting the party is planning for a brokered convention. Because that would be the best way to get rid of trump....

Fucking amazing. He's on Meet The Press Daily right now

 

[Jack Remington]

You talking books or show? Cuz I'm talking show. I can't take the way the books are written to be honest so I haven't read them.

This is interesting. Suffice to say you might be the only person I've ever seen give this opinion. The consensus is that while GRRM isn't William Faulkner, he's pretty good at prose.

 

[B-Dubs]

So I just found out there was a hate crime against Muslims in my neighborhood. Never expected it here of all places.

 

[Basileus777]

So I just found out there was a hate crime against Muslims in my neighborhood. Never expected it here of all places.

It only takes only bigot. It can happen anywhere.

 

[Makai]

They're gonna try and turn it into his Red Wedding? Do they really see no other way?

I can't imagine this will work. They need to get him before the convention. What if he gets enough delegates by then? They'd be fucked.

Definitely doing a Game of Thrones debate thread for the NBC/Telemundo debate - just in time for Super Tuesday.

 

[gutter_trash]

He can't backpedal from his comments on immigration

But he could stake out a moderate or liberal position on economic issues, perhaps even to Clinton's left (e.g., announcing support for single-payer or such).

as Far Right Trump has gone on identity politics, he is still more centered economically than the rest of the GOP candidates.

Rubio and Jeb! as still more Right Wing than Trump overall, especially on foreign interventions (neoconservative)

 

[Frank the Great]

This is interesting. Suffice to say you might be the only person I've ever seen give this opinion. The consensus is that while GRRM isn't William Faulkner, he's pretty good at prose.

People rarely criticize his prose . . . they usually cite organizational or editing problems, and they are partially correct. The latter books are a mess structurally, and they contain a fair bit of filler.

He's a great writer though and books 1-3 are amazing IMO.

 

[danm999]

Agreed. He went from THE ONE TRUE KING to a fucking schlub over the course of last season. By the end I was all like, "fuck this shit, let him die." I can only hope that

Spoiler

he's still alive

and that he actually faked doing that thing because

Spoiler

he didn't have the heart

.

In the books in the same blizzard he refuses

Spoiler

to burn even footsoldiers in his army who refuse to follow the Lord of Light and if they want the Lord of Light to favour them they should just pray harder.

It is difficult to overstate how much the show fucks up his character honestly.