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[pigeon]

I think you got it backwards. Or at least I remember the guy who thought people who worked for phramaceuticals should be ineligible from working at the FDA.

I don't remember either the guy's name or the thread topic or I'd dig up the guy shinra is talking about. It was definitely one for the ages. He wanted to put former politicians in jail if they ever went near working for somebody else, ever again.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I bet Trump would endorse Hillary if Cruz got the nom.

As would 99 Senators.

 

[Makai]

I don't remember either the guy's name or the thread topic or I'd dig up the guy shinra is talking about. It was definitely one for the ages. He wanted to put former politicians in jail if they ever went near working for somebody else, ever again.

paile the Bitcoin day trader is still my all-time fave.

 

[Plinko]

Fuck

its going to be Cruz

fuck

This would be amazing. Hillary would be doing cartwheels if that happened.

 

[Makai]

Any of you guys who put big money on Trump on PredictIt backing out? I'm down 100 and kind of worried.

Nope, buying Trump. This is just fun money, anyway. I was never planning on taking it out unless I hit the jackpot on a 1 cent trade or something.

 

[RustyNails]

I lost faith in PPP after they predicted Clinton winning IA by 8 points

 

[sphagnum]

Yeah, you're a fully grown adult when you're 25. Dont make others pay for your fucking diapers by that age. It's embarassing. People under 18 are protected, under guardianship, vulnerable, cannot make life-decisions and have no means of subsisting outside unless you want to bring child labor back. I don't have issues with taxes paying for k through 12. I am more than happy to increase taxes to make that program even better.

This is the same sort of logic that some people employ for preventing single payer health care. "You're an adult now, you can pay for it, so you should!" I got really frustrated arguing with a guy once whose entire support for the US health care system as it is was "My dad can pay for his health insurance, so why shouldn't he have to?"

It comes down to whether you view education and health care as rights or as private responsibilities.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

Fuck

its going to be Cruz

fuck

As much as I never want to see that shit-faced weasel (or is it weasel-faced shit?) in any capacity ever again...

This would be amazing. Hillary would be doing cartwheels if that happened.

I would suck it up because he would get destroyed.

 

[ugaboga232]

From memory, simply pharmaceutical ties.
Paid consulting for pharmaceutical companies.
And founding and running the Duke Translational Medicine Institute, which entailed public-private partnerships and/or pharmaceutical companies as clients in running clinical trials.
Has served on advisory boards for biotech firms.

None of this is undisclosed.

My mentality towards this though is good luck finding any halfway decent candidate that has never had dealings with pharmaceutical firms.

Yea its a lot of potential conflicts of interest. The problem is you want someone who knows the game and is good but not corrupt. IDK, he could be bad, he could be good, I would need to really pour through his literature. Sometimes you can tell if they publish a lot of shitty science even if its flashy.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I lost faith in PPP after they predicted Clinton winning IA by 8 points

Eight points is a common error actually. Polling for the Iowa Caucus is hard.

 

[Suikoguy]

No I heard about that. It was one group of people: if you want to criticize them sure, but they don't represent everyone. Just like the sexists and people on Reddit I often seen referenced here.

I guess it's just hard to stomach because I wouldn't do those things and neither would the multiple Bernie supporters I've talked to. I think they're the vocal minority, but I could be swayed by research. You can't deny how easy it is to cling to the bad supporters of an opposing candidate. While I can't think of anything Clinton supporters have said in animosity toward Bernie (people in here have just been critical of his plans and approach, which I respect), we must not forget some Clinton supporters were very nasty to Obama in 2008.

It's no excuse though for the behavior, just an observation how awful people can be in the primaries, even those voting Democrat. Bernie's campaign has asked people to stop. I even told an 18-year-old volunteer who came from North Carolina not to vilify her. I just think we can all be more respectful.

The link you provided talks about how there was virtually no link between the Hillary campaign and the "Obama is a secret Muslim" talk. I don't recall any instances of crowds chanting such non-sense during Hillary rallies, i'll gladly be proven wrong.

If you Why can't we judge a candidate by a large group of his supporters, or by an entrance poll of Sanders voters. , how else can you judge him? We judge Trump and Cruz by his supporters at rallies all the time.

The candidates, after all both attracted and somewhat molded these supporters. Sanders via his "revolution" talk, and Trump via his overt racism.

Eight points is a common error actually. Polling for the Iowa Caucus is hard.

Yeah, caucuses are difficult to gauge. I'm waiting for regular primary polling post Iowa before I draw any possible conclusion about future votes.

 

[Makai]

Alex Jones has picked up the Rubio story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QcxY4dNtYQ

He interviews the "whistle blower"

 

[ivysaur12]

Okay. Ted can do this.

TRUST TED

 

[RustyNails]

This is the same sort of logic that some people employ for preventing single payer health care. "You're an adult now, you can pay for it, so you should!" I got really frustrated arguing with a guy once whose entire support for the US health care system as it is was "My dad can pay for his health insurance, so why shouldn't he have to?"

It comes down to whether you view education and health care as rights or as private responsibilities.

Ridiculous comparison. You don't get to pick whether you get cancer, diabetes, a car accident or a broken hip. Universal healthcare is absolutely needed. I simply disagree with the way Bernie wants it.

 

[Makai]

I'm listening to the video now. They accuse Obama of being gay.

"Fool me once..."

 

[ugaboga232]

Ridiculous comparison. You don't get to pick whether you get cancer, diabetes, a car accident or a broken hip. Universal healthcare is absolutely needed. I simply disagree with the way Bernie wants it.

PS free will doesn't really exist in the current medical model of the brain either so where are you going to draw the line with science

 

[Wilsongt]

Welp, voter fraud claims and a call of a recount in Iowa are starting to appear,

#showthevote

This is going to be a running theme with the democrats, won't it?

 

[PBY]

Welp, voter fraud claims and a call of a recount in Iowa are starting to appear,

#showthevote

Killary so shady w emails and now she's rigging votes.

 

[danm999]

How do you recount a caucus?

 

[Suikoguy]

How do you recount a caucus?

Good point, and if they kept the little paper things I saw, how can you verify their integrity?

Did all precients use little paper things?

 

[RustyNails]

PS free will doesn't really exist in the current medical model of the brain either so where are you going to draw the line with science

Are you ever going to respond more concretely or continue sniping.

 

[kirblar]

Legit question- are foam parties a thing for straight people?

 

[Four_Chamber]

Why do they oppose him? Is it just because of his pharma ties or do they worry about other things.

Well a few (Bernie most loudly) went off on a tangent when they were questioning him about prescription drug prices. Bob Califf is part of the solution, not the problem. He has been the principal investigator on innumerable multicenter clinical trials that aim to show what works and what doesn't. In a perfect world, all trials would be funded by the NIH and other public institutions. It doesn't work that way and we have to rely on industry to sponsor some trials.

There's no public institution that would pay to recruit 18,000 patients for a statin study. As a physician and somebody who plans to spend the rest of his career in academia, it does not bother me when respected investigators chair studies that are funded by industry. Data is transparent and companies have financed plenty of negative studies. Unfortunately Bob Califf was used as a scapegoat at congressional hearings.

 

[Wilsongt]

I guess they are calling more to see the actual votes than they are a recount. Some video of voter fraud popped up.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/vide...ter-fraud-in-iowa-caucus-sandersclinton-vote/

Also, in more Kentucky news:

FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) — It was quick, albeit unorthodox, when Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin signed an abortion-related bill into law Tuesday after a delegation of lawmakers presented it to him in his Capitol office.

The measure updates the state's informed consent law requiring women seeking abortions be told of medical risks and benefits at least 24 hours beforehand. The bill's supporters say some doctors circumvented the requirement by having patients listen to a recorded message on the phone with no interaction.

The bill gives patients and doctors the option of consultations in person or through real-time video.

It won final legislative passage Monday, representing a rare compromise on abortion legislation in Kentucky's politically divided legislature. Then in an unusual move, the Senate took a break from its business Tuesday to allow several lawmakers to accompany the bill's delivery to the governor's office. Bevin emerged from his inner office a few minutes later to greet the legislators.

"This is an extraordinary day," Bevin said in signing his first bill into law since taking office.

Destroy healthcare for the poor in your state, destroy their ability to have choice with their bodies.

Typical Republican Tuesday.

 

[ugaboga232]

Are you ever going to respond more concretely or continue sniping.

You didnt answer my response.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

Legit question- are foam parties a thing for straight people?

Yes. They were quite popular at my liberal arts college.

 

[sphagnum]

Ridiculous comparison. You don't get to pick whether you get cancer, diabetes, a car accident or a broken hip. Universal healthcare is absolutely needed. I simply disagree with the way Bernie wants it.

Whether or not you get to pick something doesn't really matter to me in terms of what I think should construe a "right". Rights, in reality, don't exist, they aren't platonic forms waiting to be discovered or inalienable rules handed down by God or things that have to conform to pre-set rules. They are benefits claimed by people through struggle. "Political power stems from the barrel of a gun" and all, except preferably without the need for actual guns.

So while I get where you're coming from, for me that's a non-issue.

 

[ugaboga232]

Well a few (Bernie most loudly) went off on a tangent when they were questioning him about prescription drug prices. Bob Califf is part of the solution, not the problem. He has been the principal investigator on innumerable multicenter clinical trials that aim to show what works and what doesn't. In a perfect world, all trials would be funded by the NIH and other public institutions. It doesn't work that way and we have to rely on industry to sponsor some trials.

There's no public institution that would pay to recruit 18,000 patients for a statin study. As a physician, it does not bother me when respected investigators chair studies that are funded by industry. Data is transparent and companies have financed plenty of negative studies.

Of course, I haven't looked at his data at all. But conflicts of interest are conflicts of interest and merit a good hard luck. Though data is not always quite as transparent as the community would like (recently its been getting better).

 

[A Human Becoming]

The link you provided talks about how there was virtually no link between the Hillary campaign and the "Obama is a secret Muslim" talk. I don't recall any instances of crowds chanting such non-sense during Hillary rallies, i'll gladly be proven wrong.

If you can't judge a candidate by a large group of his supporters, or by an entrance poll of Sanders voters, how else can you judge him? We judge Trump and Cruz by his supporters at rallies all the time.

The candidates, after all both attracted and somewhat molded these supporters. Sanders via his "revolution" talk, and Trump via his overt racism.

You must have missed these parts:

On Dec. 5, 2007, the online magazine Politico posted the text of an email that had been forwarded by Judy Rose, the volunteer chair of the Clinton campaign in Jones County Iowa on Nov. 21, 2007. The email was a quintessential smear that offered a distorted biography of Obama’s early years. Rose offered no commentary on it. She simply passed it along.

"Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim," the email said, and it ended with, "The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States , one of their own!!!!"

Rose, sent this to eight of her fellow Democrats.

After Clinton conceded the primary to Obama, a relative handful of renegade Clinton backers jumped on the birther bandwagon to desperately snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

I'm not saying it's widespread. I don't think any Hillary supporter here would say those things, but there were hateful supporters in '08 and I'm fairly confident some of those people are still around. You can find hateful people if you look hard enough and calling Hillary a liar is tame compared to birther people. Like I said, whether it's fair to call her a liar I don't have an opinion on, but that's the feeling Iowans had: of the 24% who said there top candidate quality was honest and trustworthy, 83% voted for Bernie.

I don't judge Trump and Cruz by their supporters, I judge the supporters by what Trump and Cruz do and say. That they're followers is more telling to me than what individual supporters say.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part. Are you saying Bernie, by talking about a political revolution, molded his supporters to be sexists and believe Hillary is a liar?

 

[shinra-bansho]

What are they recounting?

Yea its a lot of potential conflicts of interest. The problem is you want someone who knows the game and is good but not corrupt. IDK, he could be bad, he could be good, I would need to really pour through his literature. Sometimes you can tell if they publish a lot of shitty science even if its flashy.

My problem isn't so much pointing out that there are these ties, they're there. They should be acknowledged. It's the assumption and or insinuation in that simply having them he must be corrupt, which is a position too often taken (not by you).

He currently already serves in the FDA leadership. He has requisite experience.

By accounts - from the NEJM, the AHA, patient groups, colleagues, non-profits - he would make an excellent Commissioner.

 

[RustyNails]

You didnt answer my response.

Free will bullshit? That was your response?

 

[User 463088]

The thing about loud mouthed supporters, and lord knows Hillary had some in 2008 who were rightfully attacked for the shit they pulled, is that they can hurt a campaign.

Last night, there was a story about an 88 year old man (an O'Malley supporter) that someone from the Clinton camp tried to woo over to caucus for her by telling the room Bernie was too old. It pissed him off, so he went to Bernie. It cost her a delegate equivalent, I believe. He probably would have gone over anyway, but non-forced errors are the death of a campaign.

That's why I was so pissed at Hillary for declaring victory before it was confirmed that she actually won. Shit like that is just stupid. Bernie's room screamed liar at Hillary when she was on their screen. I know it's a small number of people, but he really, really needs to get this shit in check if he wants to try to win.

 

[ugaboga232]

My problem isn't so much pointing out that there are these ties, they're there. They should be acknowledge. It's the assumption and or insinuation in that simply having them he must be corrupt, which is a position too often taken.

He currently already serves in the FDA leadership.

By accounts - from the NEJM, the AHA, patient groups, colleagues, non-profits - he would make an excellent Commissioner.

Yea, if his papers are good and people vouch for him that is good enough in my book (though honestly I think the FDA/CDC and pharma relationship needs to be heavily changed regardless but im a young berniebro scientist with no thought of realism in my body yet). I do think its important to have the conversation though that bernie raises even if he will eventually be the FDA chair. Science is not the pure institution I used to think when I was young, even our heroes/superstars have unreproducable data and other shady stuff.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

That the Dems have so many of their hopes pinned on the Republicans electing a shit candidate is pretty strong evidence of why Hillary was not a good choice of candidate. I understand that she has high favorables within the Democratic party, itself, but it's astonishing that nobody with power predicted that maybe somebody smeared for decades and with a shit-ton of political baggage would not be the best general election candidate, and that they'd be better off spending 8 years grooming and building up the national political profile of a young moderate. There should have been an O'Malley-tier guy with Edwards level of polish ready to go by now, but everybody seems to have capitulated to the narrative of the inevitable Hillary.

 

[dramatis]

I wouldn't put much stock into national polling anymore. We've reached the part where it's all about individual states now. It's time to start looking ahead to New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada too I guess.

While the initial states are important, I'm surprised that after Obama's 2008 that people don't think about a 50-state strategy more. I know it's expensive and demanding, but if there's a way to learn how to make it cheaper and better, now is the time to do it lol

 

[ugaboga232]

Free will bullshit? That was your response?

Im sorry, do you not believe that neuroscience/psychiatry is real? Our decisions are as chosen as cancer developing, its all deterministic (drug addiction is a good example so is mental illness).

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm confused as to what on earth this argument is about.

Also, have a conversation sure. Filibuster the president of your own (sort of) party's (perfectly reasonable) nomination. Self-aggrandizing foolishness.

 

[ugaboga232]

I'm confused as to what on earth this argument is about.

Something about we shouldnt provide for people after 18 as they have all the agency to decide what to do while before that due to laws/biology we should give free education. Someone retorted about healthcare, and then I throw in the controversial chip of free will being not really a thing.

 

[kirblar]

That the Dems have so many of their hopes pinned on the Republicans electing a shit candidate is pretty strong evidence of why Hillary was not a good choice of candidate. I understand that she has high favorables within the Democratic party, itself, but it's astonishing that nobody with power predicted that maybe somebody smeared for decades and with a shit-ton of political baggage would not be the best general election candidate, and that they'd be better off spending 8 years grooming and building up the national political profile of a young moderate. There should have been an O'Malley-tier guy with Edwards level of polish ready to go by now, but everybody seems to have capitulated to the narrative of the inevitable Hillary.

The issue on the Dem side is that Hillary is a GOP-style candidate. A clear established pecking order is normally present with their candidates - the Dem base normally goes for first-timers. Everything's backwards this cycle.

 

[A Human Becoming]

The thing about loud mouthed supporters, and lord knows Hillary had some in 2008 who were rightfully attacked for the shit they pulled, is that they can hurt a campaign.

Last night, there was a story about an 88 year old man (an O'Malley supporter) that someone from the Clinton camp tried to woo over to caucus for her by telling the room Bernie was too old. It pissed him off, so he went to Bernie. It cost her a delegate equivalent, I believe. He probably would have gone over anyway, but non-forced errors are the death of a campaign.

That's why I was so pissed at Hillary for declaring victory before it was confirmed that she actually won. Shit like that is just stupid. Bernie's room screamed liar at Hillary when she was on their screen. I know it's a small number of people, but he really, really needs to get this shit in check if he wants to try to win.

I agree with everything you just said. I don't know why but they don't seem to train Bernie volunteers how to act or handle situations: I can imagine they've paid the price sometimes. Even a staffer here I was told said he wanted Hillary to be killed by ISIS, which the other staffers disagree with and have spoken to him about his behavior.

I am by no means a perfect canvasser or phone banker, but I always try to be polite and respectful. I don't know how much of an affect that has, but I feel it's important to always give people a good impression of Bernie supporters.

 

[RustyNails]

Im sorry, do you not believe that neuroscience/psychiatry is real? Our decisions are as chosen as cancer developing, its all deterministic (drug addiction is a good example so is mental illness).

Ok buddy, whatever you say/

I'm confused as to what on earth this argument is about.

You know what I'm not sure either.

 

[Teggy]

So Trump is saying that "all these politicians" lie except him, which is rich, but best of all, Cruz lies because he was born in Canada.

 

[disastermouse]

The thing about loud mouthed supporters, and lord knows Hillary had some in 2008 who were rightfully attacked for the shit they pulled, is that they can hurt a campaign.

Last night, there was a story about an 88 year old man (an O'Malley supporter) that someone from the Clinton camp tried to woo over to caucus for her by telling the room Bernie was too old. It pissed him off, so he went to Bernie. It cost her a delegate equivalent, I believe. He probably would have gone over anyway, but non-forced errors are the death of a campaign.

That's why I was so pissed at Hillary for declaring victory before it was confirmed that she actually won. Shit like that is just stupid. Bernie's room screamed liar at Hillary when she was on their screen. I know it's a small number of people, but he really, really needs to get this shit in check if he wants to try to win.

Nah. I don't think the yelling 'liar' is as damaging as one individual indirectly insulting a voter about his age. I mean, we'll see, but I'm not sure it's as bad.

Maybe.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Something about we shouldnt provide for people after 18 as they have all the agency to decide what to do while before that due to laws/biology we should give free education. Someone retorted about healthcare, and then I throw in the controversial chip of free will being not really a thing.

I mean under this weird line of discussion, the voting age should be raised.

Anyway, there's presumably some balance between making university accessible enough that those with that aptitude and inclination are able to go, while people who aren't really well served aren't simply frittering away their own time and money, as well as potentially other people's, spending 6-8 years on a piece of paper. Although, what that balance is I have no idea really.

As a society, we've decided to educate our children to a certain stage of development/life for free, regardless of their aptitude for academics. I guess the question at hand is whether we can or should lengthen that period.

 

[ugaboga232]

Ok buddy, whatever you say/

You know what I'm not sure either.

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080411/full/news.2008.751.html

Do you want more proof or do you not think drug addiction is a disease but rather a failing of agency/willpower?

 

[User 463088]

I agree with everything you just said. I don't know why but they don't seem to train Bernie volunteers how to act or handle situations: I can imagine they've paid the price sometimes. Even a staffer here I was told said he wanted Hillary to be killed by ISIS, which the other staffers disagree with and have spoken to him about his behavior.

I am by no means a perfect canvasser or phone banker, but I always try to be polite and respectful. I don't know how much of an affect that has, but I feel it's important to always give people a good impression of the people who support Bernie.

We should try to be polite and respectful, because, at the end of the day, we should be wanting the same things. We just disagree on how best to achieve those ends. That kind of debate is totally helpful. And we can totally get bitchy about it...and that's fine.

When I switched to Obama's team in 2008. they had training meetings where they drilled over and over the importance of not being a dick. I think a lot of supporters, and I'll even through that on both sides to be fair, need "Don't be a dick training."

One thing that I think fuels it, and I'm probably not going to be popular for saying this, is the complete and total bullshit Bernie's campaign throws out there. We had the whole "Hillary's going to flood the caucuses with people from other states" conspiracy theory. We had the "Microsoft is going to try and steal it" conspiracy theory. We have every newspaper who endorsed Hillary is working against Bernie. Now we have the coin flip conspiracy theory." These take hold among some of the more...ardent supporters because (for some, DEFINITELY NOT ALL) it's become a cult. Like, Bernie is the way, the truth and the light, and since Hillary (and by extension Hillarybots) stand in his noble path, we're all shit.

Like, in the Iowa Caucus thread, some people were bitching about older people messing this up for Bernie. They were mostly tongue in cheek (I hope) but were literally saying "It doesn't matter they'll be dead soon." That's such the wrong way to approach this. If someone is not feeling your guy/girl, figure out why and try to find a point of consensus. Like Hillary said, maybe we can't get the person to agree on the huge things, but we can find some small thing and work from there. It's better than throwing everyone under the doubledecker bus.

And, to prove I'm honest, I went on a rant last night about Hillary declaring victory. Shit pissed me off. Big time.

Also, and I know this probably doesn't really matter to anyone, but how awesome is it that a woman finally won the Iowa caucus! Another crack in that highest glass ceiling.

 

[RustyNails]

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080411/full/news.2008.751.html

Do you want more proof or do you not think drug addiction is a disease but rather a failing of agency/willpower?

What are we talking about? How did we get from talking about universal healthcare to this?

Listen, lets kindly step away. I dont want to have this stupid discussion any longer.

 

[Cybit]

The link you provided talks about how there was virtually no link between the Hillary campaign and the "Obama is a secret Muslim" talk. I don't recall any instances of crowds chanting such non-sense during Hillary rallies, i'll gladly be proven wrong.

If you Why can't we judge a candidate by a large group of his supporters, or by an entrance poll of Sanders voters. , how else can you judge him? We judge Trump and Cruz by his supporters at rallies all the time.

The candidates, after all both attracted and somewhat molded these supporters. Sanders via his "revolution" talk, and Trump via his overt racism.

Media / technology world was significantly different in 2008 vs 2016. As someone who worked Obama '08 a tiny bit on the analytics side (just to help the person taking over from the '06 revisions of the files) - the sexism accusations and racism were pretty damn real. Lets just say modern day streaming would have illuminated the hatred many HRC supporters felt towards Obama. (What I would give to have that kind of technology during the Bush / McCain 2000 primary. Holy crap. The stories from those are pretty much unbelievable. I believe that Kerry could have gotten McCain to cross the aisle in '04 if those stories are even slightly true...) I can't remember if this ended up happening, but we factored in that white female HRC supporters were going to move percentage points towards McCain out of spite / racism. Thankfully Palin saved us IIRC.

Or, to pretty much sum up how a lot of HRC supporters acted and felt pre-Palin

http://www.salon.com/2008/06/23/pumas/ (Salon warning, since, well, Salon is a shitty rag / liberal Breitbart level "analysis" now for the most part IMO)

From our little knothole; there was a lot of "how dare a black man from flyover country beat a educated, high achieving east coast white woman? It must be sexism!" delusional idiocy running around the HRC campaign in 08. Fact was, the '08 HRC primary campaign was run by a lot of really, really dumb people who did not know how to catch up with the times, and were arrogant enough to think they could not lose. It took them a long time to realize that they lost the 08 campaign rather than Obama taking it from them.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...clinton-s-greatest-challenger-hillary-clinton

EDIT: Sorry, this still gets my blood boiling - I like HRC a lot and I always hated how her senior campaign staff basically treated the beginning of the primary as a paid vacation / ego massage IMO.

 

[ugaboga232]

What are we talking about? How did we get from talking about universal healthcare to this?

Listen, lets kindly step away. I dont want to have this stupid discussion any longer.

Because you think that people being able to chose their own path means college shouldnt be paid for or something. College graduates seem to better in a ton of fields even controlled for income so it makes sense to want more people to go through college. Education has its own virtues outside of prepping for a job.

 

[User 463088]

Nah. I don't think the yelling 'liar' is as damaging as one individual indirectly insulting a voter about his age. I mean, we'll see, but I'm not sure it's as bad.

Maybe.

I'm not saying either is bad, I think they're both damn stupid, though. Especially the Hillary one. I have the right to be more critical of "my" campaign than Bernie's. Shit like that just irks me. It's like an own goal. Don't help the other guy/girl.