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[Cesare Borgia]

The shadow campaigns against Rubio are going to be ugly as hell.

I've heard republican aides make homophobic comments about Rubio many times. I think 99% of it is just GOP aides being the homophobic dicks they often are, but...

There was a Washington Post story a few weeks ago about Rubio being arrested or picked up in the bushes in some area of Miami as a young man. That area is known as a hotspot for certain sexual behavior. I've never thought Rubio was gay and don't believe he was there for that. But I have heard rumors about transsexuals and cross dressers, from people who aren't homophobic dicks. And that area of Miami is a strolling area for both.

Likely bullshit, but you're gonna hear a lot of stupid stuff in the next few weeks that mirrors this stuff. It's unfair and frankly pathetic but I think Bush loyalists want to destroy Rubio to send a message. Jeb may be finished but the Bush name has to be preserved.

 

[ivysaur12]

what is this stuff about 6 coin tosses I'm hearing about? could someone explain?

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/02/46526...n=politics&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews

It's been reported that there were as many as six sites, where ties were decided by the flip of a coin — and Clinton won every single one. The odds of that happening, are 1-in-64, or less than 2 percent. What's more, that gave her just more than her margin of victory over Sanders — four delegates.

Except that doesn't tell the whole story. In fact, there were at least a dozen tie-breakers — and "Sen. Sanders won at least a handful," an Iowa Democratic Party official told NPR.

Gone unmentioned so far is that even if Clinton won that Miracle Six — and there were no other coin tosses — it would make little difference to the outcome. That's, in part, because of the complicated way Iowa Democrats allocate their delegates — and what was being reported on election night and what wasn't.

It's a bullshit non-story.

 

[Jack Remington]

Looking back at Bush's announcement speech, it was clear from the beginning that he was a shit candidate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w-bnAvrsds

His body language and facial tics are awkward as hell. Just look at the fake smile and awkward expression around 0:58. His delivery is struggle-tier as well. Forget Obama or Trump levels. Even someone like Romney sounded much more natural.

 

[kirblar]

I've heard republican aides make homophobic comments about Rubio many times. I think 99% of it is just GOP aides being the homophobic dicks they often are, but...

There was a Washington Post story a few weeks ago about Rubio being arrested or picked up in the bushes in some area of Miami as a young man. That area is known as a hotspot for certain sexual behavior. I've never thought Rubio was gay and don't believe he was there for that. But I have heard rumors about transsexuals and cross dressers, from people who aren't homophobic dicks. And that area of Miami is a strolling area for both.

Likely bullshit, but you're gonna hear a lot of stupid stuff in the next few weeks that mirrors this stuff. It's unfair and frankly pathetic but I think Bush loyalists want to destroy Rubio to send a message. Jeb may be finished but the Bush name has to be preserved.

The biggest part of it isn't even the arrest, but who he was arrested with. (A guy who would later go on to run gay porn webcams.)

 

[Coriolanus]

Y'all doing a feb thread? NH is so far away...

 

[User1608]

The shadow campaigns against Rubio are going to be ugly as hell.

Yep. Pretty gross regardless of the disdain I have for him. Oh well, SMEARS! This party has lost the plot lol.

 

[thezerofire]

nothing?

why would you do this

 

[Retromelon]

To be quite honest with you, the winner of the coin tosses is irrelevant. The fact that coin tosses can become a factor in a presidential primary nomination (caucus) is the problem, and that doesn't change just because Bernie won them.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be leaving this thread again, but I thought it would be good to clarify my stance before people started peddling a bunch of candidate bias bullshit.

dont go brainchild! i need the drama your posts inevitably foster to live

 

[B-Dubs]

Y'all doing a feb thread? NH is so far away...

Not me. I'm done til Super Tuesday, outside of one more GOP debate.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

For all the talk of Hillary expecting a "coronation" she did her homework, hired the right people, and has worked hard. If anyone expected a coronation it's Jeb Bush. Horrible candidate. No heart.

 

[HylianTom]

If there's any "there" there, I have no qualms about someone using the issue to smear him.

Take him down.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Not me. I'm done til Super Tuesday, outside of one more GOP debate.

yup.

 

[shinra-bansho]

No heart. No proprioception.

 

[ivysaur12]

For all the talk of Hillary expecting a "coronation" she did her homework, hired the right people, and has worked hard. If anyone expected a coronation it's Jeb Bush. Horrible candidate. No energy.

FTFY, c'mon man.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The left is making sure we know that its the media and the establishment that are downplaying bernie who was the "real winner"

I love how the first half of this article is decrying the spin from a "3rd place loser" like Rubio saying that it doesn't matter he still came in third and then turns around and relies on what amounts to spin to point out even if Bernie lost "he won" because all the world was against him. He's literally arguing against the point he himself made in the first half of the article because his candidate benefits from it. Hypocrisy is normal but don't pretend your spiting truths

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-electability-spin-machine-20160202

I love this in perticular

"For months, for months they told us we had no chance. For months they told us because we offer too much optimism in a time of anger, we had no chance. For months they told us because we didn't have the right endorsements or the right political connections, we had no chance.... But tonight, tonight here in Iowa, the people of this great state have sent a very clear message."

Once again, he came in third, which is where the Real Clear Politics average has had him ever since Ben Carson's numbers started nosediving around mid-December.

compared to

At the start of last May, he was 54 points behind in Iowa to Hillary Clinton, a frontrunner with the most open path to the eventual nomination in primary history.

Dude don't pick and choose how you compare. I mean rubio was like in what 8th place in summer of last year?

 

[NeoXChaos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODSbTL-6i7g

Chris is 100% right. They got to learn that lesson or face disillusionment like they did with Obama. Abandoned him at the 11th hour.

He fundraising off those coin flips:

 

[Coriolanus]

I've a very hard time believing that "he's not a real democrat" has any traction whatsoever with the voters.

Like, if dudes enumerated what they perceived as flaws in the Bern, i'd be legit shook if it broke top 10.

Plus the counter is always the exceedingly obvious "oh, so you'd rather he run as an independent?". Dead narrative.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODSbTL-6i7g

Chris is 100% right. They got to learn that lesson or face disillusionment like they did with Obama. Abandoned him at the 11th hour.

The biggest thing is his fans not only don't realize his electablitiy problems but the effectively ignore how federalism, divided government, and constitutional prohibitions on congress taking many actions limit the progressive agenda. Citizens united be repealed isn't going to fix that.

I mean the completely ignore how obamacare massively expanded a single payer system and got dismantled by 6 justices (even liberal ones!)

I mean how the hell do you eliminate the health insurance industry, prevent states from promoting them over any volunteer single payer program (or are we going to pretend you can mandate that?) and this is AFTER the vote that is going to be opposed by a hell of a lot of interest and voters subject to constant electoral viability tests and always a simple repeal vote away (because it will be simple legislation not an amendment)!

 

[obonicus]

I love how the first half of this article is decrying the spin from a "3rd place loser" like Rubio saying that it doesn't matter he still came in third and then turns around and relies on what amounts to spin to point out even if Bernie lost "he won" because all the world was against him.

That's not really what the article is saying, though. It's two distinct points. The first is how the republican apparatus appointed its candidate for presidency, despite the fact that he came in third. His claim is that the whole primary system is a sham, because all they really wanted was to legitimize a campaign that wasn't Cruz or Trump.

The second part is taking the media to task for being, well, terrible. If they were truly interested in the 'story', the underdog unknown taking a grassroots campaign to where he can tie with Hillary Clinton should be seeing different coverage. Fundamentally he's accusing them of liberal elitism, of using the self-serving (and circular) argument of 'electability'.

I'm not going to pretend it's an even-handed report, but it actually addresses substantive issues, as opposed to the shenanigans we see at the likes of Salon with their terrible "criticizing HRC's taste in music is misoginy"-class articles.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I think the reason Rubio is a threat is because he has that exact same "I would drink a beer with him" quality that George W. Bush had, only without quite as much of the frat boy/good ol' boy texture. He's good at crafting and delivering sound bites, is charming and natural when he does talk shows, rolls with the punches when he does mockable stuff like the shit with the water bottle, etc. Many of his views I find reprehensible, but comparing him to Hillary Clinton, he certainly seems to have more of an upside in terms of what he can do for his party, and way less baggage.

 

[sphagnum]

The biggest thing is his fans not only don't realize his electablitiy problems but the effectively ignore how federalism, divided government, and constitutional prohibitions on congress taking many actions limit the progressive agenda. Citizens united be repealed isn't going to fix that.

I mean the completely ignore how obamacare massively expanded a single payer system and got dismantled by 6 justices (even liberal ones!)

I mean how the hell do you eliminate the health insurance industry, prevent states from promoting them over any volunteer single payer program (or are we going to pretend you can mandate that?) and this is AFTER the vote that is going to be opposed by a hell of a lot of interest and voters subject to constant electoral viability tests and always a simple repeal vote away (because it will be simple legislation not an amendment)!

I actually think that a lot of his supporters are quite well aware of this and it only fuels their desire for an alternative to the current system. Remember, a lot of Sanders supporters claim to want socialism (even if they're misusing the word to mean social democracy) and aren't really interested in working within existing structures but changing them.

Easier said than done, obviously.

Anyway, I think that it's kind of funny that so many people automatically assume that the youth are stupid for being suspicious of Hillary rather than being critical and asking themselves what she can do to dispel these notions, or why these notions may exist in the first place.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I actually think that a lot of his supporters are quite well aware of this and it only fuels their desire for an alternative to the current system. Remember, a lot of Sanders supporters claim to want socialism (even if they're misusing the word to mean social democracy) and aren't really interested in working within existing structures but changing them.

Easier said than done, obviously.

Anyway, I think that it's kind of funny that so many people automatically assume that the youth are stupid for being suspicious of Hillary rather than being critical and asking themselves what she can do to dispel these notions, or why these notions may exist in the first place.

Yeah the majority of sanders supporters have never articulated this besides disastermouse. I'm gonna say a majority have no idea what they want besides not going bankrupt after medical bills or college (I'm much less sympathetic to the later)

 

[shinra-bansho]

I would go shoe shopping with Rubio. I think we'd have a blast.

 

[ivysaur12]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/clinton-sends-brooklyn-hq-staff-to-new-hampshire

She's competing in New Hampshire.

 

[gutter_trash]

I think the reason Rubio is a threat is because he has that exact same "I would drink a beer with him" quality that George W. Bush had, only without quite as much of the frat boy/good ol' boy texture. He's good at crafting and delivering sound bites, is charming and natural when he does talk shows, rolls with the punches when he does mockable stuff like the shit with the water bottle, etc. Many of his views I find reprehensible, but comparing him to Hillary Clinton, he certainly seems to have more of an upside in terms of what he can do for his party, and way less baggage.

and he soaks up the left overs from Jeb!, Carly, Christie and the rest of the establishment

Jeb flames out in Florida at home, then that's that

 

[Makai]

Ben Carson imposter from Triumph was fucking hysterical. Can't wait for that to get uploaded.

 

[NeoXChaos]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/clinton-sends-brooklyn-hq-staff-to-new-hampshire

She's competing in New Hampshire.

as she should. Get as many delegates as possible.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I can always rely on this thread to badmouth Bernie supporters. Generalization are bad.

 

[Overlee]

Yeah the majority of sanders supporters have never articulated this besides disastermouse. I'm gonna say a majority have no idea what they want besides not going bankrupt after medical bills or college (I'm much less sympathetic to the later)

Do you mind if I ask why you do you not feel sympathetic towards massive college debt? Would you agree that:

A.) A college degree is a requirement to get a job above the poverty line in the United States.

B.) The "free" education our public schools (k-12) provide was designed around the idea of training and placing our population into an industrialized workforce that no longer exists due to globalization.


Do you see something wrong with forcing debt slavery on those already looking for upward mobility? We decided long ago that education was a right, why is it okay now for giant banks and the government to make money off of a basic necessity in our society? Forget the fact that those same banks lobbied congress to make it impossible to file for bankruptcy due to loans.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

I can always rely on this thread to badmouth Bernie supporters. Generalization are bad.

As you generalize the thread.

 

[Holmes]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/clinton-sends-brooklyn-hq-staff-to-new-hampshire

She's competing in New Hampshire.

It'd be stupid not to.

 

[A Human Becoming]

As you generalize the thread.

I didn't say everyone did it. That would be generalizing.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Do you mind if I ask why you do you not feel sympathetic towards massive college debt? Would you agree that:

A.) A college degree is a requirement to get a job above the poverty line in the United States.

B.) The "free" education our public schools (k-12) provide was designed around the idea of training and placing our population into an industrialized workforce that no longer exists due to globalization.


Do you see something wrong with forcing debt slavery on those already looking for upward mobility? We decided long ago that education was a right, why is it okay now for giant banks and the government to make money off of a basic necessity in our society? Forget the fact that those same banks lobbied congress to make it impossible to file for bankruptcy due to loans.

I've got sympathy for people with loans from public universities. I've got far less sympathy for people going in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get a liberal arts degree from a third tier school or going to law school to a 4th tier law school.

 

[thezerofire]

man, fuck accelerationists. ran across someone who would vote for Trump if Bernie lost literally "to watch it burn." and of course he's a straight white guy

 

[Makai]

man, fuck accelerationists. ran across someone who would vote for Trump if Bernie lost literally "to watch it burn." and of course he's a straight white guy

Some people just want to see the world Bern

 

[shinra-bansho]

That a university degree has become a requirement is probably an issue that should be, but can't or won't be addressed. Credentialism is dumb. And, it's probably controversial to say it, but college isn't for everyone - but more importantly, it shouldn't have to be. The latter part is probably where things have gone off the rails.

 

[A Human Becoming]

That a university degree has become a requirement is probably an issue that should be, but can't or won't be addressed. Credentialism is dumb.

When I was in school I was told getting a college degree set you for life. By the time I left college it was clearly not true. That is what a lot of college is now, credentials.

 

[RustyNails]

Do you mind if I ask why you do you not feel sympathetic towards massive college debt? Would you agree that:

A.) A college degree is a requirement to get a job above the poverty line in the United States.

B.) The "free" education our public schools (k-12) provide was designed around the idea of training and placing our population into an industrialized workforce that no longer exists due to globalization.


Do you see something wrong with forcing debt slavery on those already looking for upward mobility? We decided long ago that education was a right, why is it okay now for giant banks and the government to make money off of a basic necessity in our society? Forget the fact that those same banks lobbied congress to make it impossible to file for bankruptcy due to loans.

The "free" education you speak of is not free. It is in part paid by people like myself who owe thousands of dollars every year in property taxes. I don't mind it. The age between 1 to 18 is absolutely critical learning age and school is a necessity. I see community college as an extension of Highschool but in a transition to higher education, so I like Obama's proposal of free community college. Higher education is a different issue and more than just getting ready for real world. Government has allowed you to get a federal loan to complete your education. This program has always worked. What we need to fix are the problems with exorbiant interest rates and fixing the private for-profit college industry.

 

[danm999]

When I was in school I was told getting a college degree set you for life. By the time I left college it was clearly not true. That is what a lot of college is now, credentials.

You can come at it from the other angle as well. In most countries, the United States included, telling someone you aren't going to college as a senior high schooler is met with some variation of "I'm sorry".

 

[HylianTom]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:

Started a national poll tonight that we'll release Thursday but already clear- Trump's standing significantly diminished

*gulp*

 

[ugaboga232]

The "free" education you speak of is not free. It is in part paid by people like myself who owe thousands of dollars every year in property taxes. I don't mind it. The age between 1 to 18 is absolutely critical learning age and school is a necessity. I see community college as an extension of Highschool but in a transition to higher education, so I like Obama's proposal of free community college. Higher education is a different issue and more than just getting ready for real world. Government has allowed you to get a federal loan to complete your education. This program has always worked. What we need to fix are the problems with exorbiant interest rates and fixing the private for-profit college industry.

Ps brain doesn't fully mature till 25 if you wanna get into the details of the critical learning age.

Also college graduates tend to be "better" citizens in terms of a lot of factors (I remember some study/data on that which corrected for income but could be mistaken).

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Do you mind if I ask why you do you not feel sympathetic towards massive college debt? Would you agree that:

A.) A college degree is a requirement to get a job above the poverty line in the United States.

B.) The "free" education our public schools (k-12) provide was designed around the idea of training and placing our population into an industrialized workforce that no longer exists due to globalization.


Do you see something wrong with forcing debt slavery on those already looking for upward mobility? We decided long ago that education was a right, why is it okay now for giant banks and the government to make money off of a basic necessity in our society? Forget the fact that those same banks lobbied congress to make it impossible to file for bankruptcy due to loans.

My main problem is that many of the people made really unwise financial decisions and it wasn't the necessity the say it was to get 50k in debt. You don't have to move across the state and get your own appartment, got straight to four years college, go to private school, not work during college, go to university of Phoenix, etc.

I believe there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there praying on young kids but a lot of these debt horror stories always ring more hallow than other crisis like your health which you can't plan around.

I'm not saying things don't need to change but I don't want a system that's designed to relieve a lot of the stories I hear (people deciding they can't stay with mom in Iowa and need to move 1000 miles to go to public college in Charlottesville an end up 100k in debt). I'd much rather expand community college (making it free) and pathways to 4 years than make all public schools tuition free.

 

[Overlee]

I've got sympathy for people with loans from public universities. I've got far less sympathy for people going in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get a liberal arts degree from a third tier school or going to law school to a 4th tier law school.

This argument always makes me lol. How many people do you know with a University of Phoenix liberal law degree?

That's besides the point though, in our increasingly automated job market don't you think it would be beneficial to society as a whole to have people with varying opinions and degrees of interest and specialties? The problems we face ahead; environmentally, socially and spiritually are not going to be solved solely by those with MBA's or Doctorates.

 

[Makai]

Do you mind if I ask why you do you not feel sympathetic towards massive college debt? Would you agree that:

A.) A college degree is a requirement to get a job above the poverty line in the United States.

B.) The "free" education our public schools (k-12) provide was designed around the idea of training and placing our population into an industrialized workforce that no longer exists due to globalization.


Do you see something wrong with forcing debt slavery on those already looking for upward mobility? We decided long ago that education was a right, why is it okay now for giant banks and the government to make money off of a basic necessity in our society? Forget the fact that those same banks lobbied congress to make it impossible to file for bankruptcy due to loans.

It certainly helps, but you do not need a college degree to get a job above the poverty line. Manufacturing is a major industry and America produces like a quarter of world goods.

The bankruptcy exemption pushes the interest rate down.
"Debt slavery" - average college debt is like $25k and you can switch to an income-based repayment plan if that's somehow too much.

 

[Officerrob]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:


*gulp*

Damn, people flirted with Trump, but are returning to their base

 

[sphagnum]

My main problem is that many of the people made really unwise financial decisions and it wasn't the necessity the say it was to get 50k in debt. You don't have to move across the state and get your own appartment, got straight to four years college, go to private school, not work during college, go to university of Phoenix, etc.

I believe there are a lot of unscrupulous people out there praying on young kids but a lot of these debt horror stories always ring more hallow than other crisis like your health which you can't plan around.

I'm not saying things don't need to change but I don't want a system that's designed to relieve a lot of the stories I hear. I'd much rather expand community college (making it free) and pathways to 4 years than make all public schools tuition free.

Ah, but if college is publically funded then these problems don't exist in the first place.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This argument always makes me lol. How many people do you know with a University of Phoenix liberal law degree?

That's besides the point though, in our increasingly automated job market don't you think it would be beneficial to society as a whole to have people with varying opinions and degrees of interest and specialties? The problems we face ahead; environmentally, socially and spiritually are not going to be solved solely by those with MBA's or Doctorates.

They're not going to be solved with college degrees either

 

[JesseEwiak]

This argument always makes me lol. How many people do you know with a University of Phoenix liberal law degree?

That's besides the point though, in our increasingly automated job market don't you think it would be beneficial to society as a whole to have people with varying opinions and degrees of interest and specialties? The problems we face ahead; environmentally, socially and spiritually are not going to be solved solely by those with MBA's or Doctorates.

Then what's the problem? The average debt load is actually $30,000. Not great, but not ruinous.

But yes, I agree - public university should be paid via general taxation. But, once you want to go to graduate school, law school, or non-public university, you're on your own beyond grants and loans.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Well, apparently there are 250K undergraduates at the University of Phoenix. So someone's going there to take six years to get a Bachelor's degree.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Ah, but if college is publically funded then these problems don't exist in the first place.

Of course they do? How does that prevent living expenses, the increasing creep of tution on facilities to attract out of state students, increasing enrollment, private competition, etc?