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[NYCmetsfan]

Then what's the problem? The average debt load is actually $30,000. Not great, but not ruinous.

But yes, I agree - public university should be paid via general taxation. But, once you want to go to graduate school, law school, or non-public university, you're on your own beyond grants and loans.

This is also a big part of it. The debt crisis is often overblown. Not always but the debt is often something like 200 bucks a month? That's not ruinous if your making 30,000K+ and with a 15$ minimum wage most people would be above that. Especially college graduates who have what, a 3% unemployment rate?

 

[ugaboga232]

Of course they do? How does that prevent living expenses, the increasing creep of tution on facilities to attract out of state students, increasing enrollment, private competition, etc?

You can regulate them if you are their only tuition source?

 

[ivysaur12]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:


*gulp*

Dammit.

 

[A Human Becoming]

You can come at it from the other angle as well. In most countries, the United States included, telling someone you aren't going to college as a senior high schooler is met with some variation of "I'm sorry".

That's very true: people with college degrees do earn more than those who don't. I'm speaking more to the idea a college degree was the path to immediate success, which it really isn't, unless you earn very specific degrees. Even then I've heard the specific degrees (STEM I imagine) are not as reliable as touted.

I'm not saying college is a waste of time, I just think for many people nowadays a degree has less value in the long term once you get your foot in the door. Experience is much more valuable and doesn't have such a high cost.

 

[NeoXChaos]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:


*gulp*

its a state by state primary

 

[NYCmetsfan]

You can regulate them if you are their only tuition source?

Why not just expand community colleges where this makes sense rather than ruining public research institutions with limiting their income sources.

 

[A Human Becoming]

its a state by state primary.

It is but that's not how Trump has been playing for the most part.

 

[Y2Kev]

You're going to see it in NH too, darling. The romance is over.

 

[ivysaur12]

He really needed a field organization in Iowa.

Ugh. I'm so sad. I really thought we had it this time.

 

[sphagnum]

Then what's the problem? The average debt load is actually $30,000. Not great, but not ruinous.

Depends on who is $30,000 in debt.

Of course they do? How does that prevent living expenses, the increasing creep of tution on facilities to attract out of state students, increasing enrollment, private competition, etc?

Stipends and regulation? It's not like there aren't first world countries like Denmark that this kind of stuff hasn't been tried in.

 

[ugaboga232]

Why not just expand community colleges where this makes sense rather than ruining public research institutions with limiting their income sources.

I feel like tuition already isn't a huge funding source for research institutions (as far as non undergrad resources go).

 

[disastermouse]

Why not just expand community colleges where this makes sense rather than ruining public research institutions with limiting their income sources.

Do you see the contradiction? Is it public research or is it privately funded research with privately funded goals?

 

[AnotherNils]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:


*gulp*

So Trump supporters have as much fortitude as an Oregon militia man.

 

[Aaron Strife]

When I was in school I was told getting a college degree set you for life. By the time I left college it was clearly not true. That is what a lot of college is now, credentials.

Yup. You go through high school and all your teachers/advisers will tell you "You have to go to college! You don't want to end up flipping burgers, do you?"

Graduate college, find out your shitty degree isn't worth anything and those same people will tell you "Get a job at McDonald's! You're not too good for flipping burgers, are you?"

Maddening. I might have to go to grad school simply to find a steady job in my field.

 

[Suikoguy]

I can always rely on this thread to badmouth Bernie supporters. Generalization are bad.

Did you accidentally or conveniently miss the article just posted about Sanders supporters chanting "Liar!" at a rally?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...6-democrats-great-divide-213585#ixzz3z3clT7Nd

The animosity and "otherism" is not the same across supporters of both candidates.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Do you see the contradiction? Is it public research or is it privately funded research with privately funded goals?

Its a public research institution with public and private funding

 

[ugaboga232]

Did you accidentally or conveniently miss the article just posted about Sanders supporters chanting "Liar!" at a rally?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...6-democrats-great-divide-213585#ixzz3z3clT7Nd

The animosity and "otherism" is not the same across supporters of both candidates.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[Iolo]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/clinton-sends-brooklyn-hq-staff-to-new-hampshire

She's competing in New Hampshire.

She has to. It keeps Bernie in New Hampshire for the next week to defend his lead, instead of going to NV/SC to stump.

 

[campfireweekend]

Do you see the contradiction? Is it public research or is it privately funded research with privately funded goals?

You heard it here first! All researchers are paid shills!

Man, I wonder when my check will come in the mail.

Spoiler

this is me announcing I got the research position I was jockeying for!

 

[Suikoguy]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Did you bother to read the article?

The Iowa entrance poll indicates the angry sentiment is not limited to a few rabble-rousers. Approximately half of Sanders’ voters said Clinton doesn’t “share” their “values.” That animosity reveals a deep ideological divide that will become harder to bridge the longer the race goes on.

Guess you did not.

 

[XenodudeX]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:


*gulp*

How? How does one fucking primary when he finished in second cause such a huge shift? His supports must be fucking fickle as hell.

 

[The Technomancer]

Fuck

its going to be Cruz

fuck

 

[Suikoguy]

Fuck

its going to be Cruz

fuck

If Trump is good news for Democrats, Cruz is a fucking fantasy for Democrats.

 

[NeoXChaos]

How? How does one fucking primary when he finished in second cause such a huge shift? His supports must be fucking fickle as hell.

media.

 

[Veritigo_X]

PublicPolicyPolling ‏@ppppolls 2m2 minutes ago:

*gulp*

What a fickle base. Trump is polling much better in NH and there are like 5 people fighting for second place right now. He could totally still win it and get the momentum back.

 

[Iolo]

You're going to see it in NH too, darling. The romance is over.

Alternatively Trump could win NH and the reverse in narrative would be amazing.

 

[Sianos]

I think Trump feeling the heat for now is a good thing - he'll be prompted to tear into Rubio and Cruz and will ratchet up the madness another notch to compete.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I do hope we're not venturing down the rabbit-hole wherein all research must either be government-funded or is intrinsically suspect.

This is again bringing to mind that time someone proposed that anyone who held public office should never be able to work in "business" again.

 

[RastaMentality]

Getting to see trump in full out war mode this week will make this kinda worth it.

 

[campfireweekend]

I do hope we're not venturing down the rabbit-hole wherein all research must either be government-funded or is intrinsically suspect.

I dont know if a self professed Marxist should be the one that prompts such a fear.

Edit: to the second part: Seriously, that's how you stop attracting any kind of competency to government work.

 

[Overlee]

The average amount of student loan debt again crept up for the Class of 2013, and is approaching $30,000, according to a new report from the Institute for College Access and Success.

Determining the average amount of student debt at individual colleges is more complicated, the researchers write, because many colleges don't report their average debt figures – and they're not required to. In all, just 57 percent of the nearly 2,000 public and nonprofit four-year colleges that awarded bachelor's degrees in 2013 reported figures for average debt and the percent of graduates with debt. For-profit colleges are not included in the calculations because so few report those figures.

The researchers also note that student debt figures may be misleading because colleges may not account for private loans students take out that the school is unaware of. Nationally, nearly 20 percent of all graduating seniors' debt came from private student loans.

Describing the average student debt at individual colleges can also be misleading. While more expensive colleges tend to have higher levels of debt, that's not always the case. At some expensive colleges, the net price for low- and middle-income students is lower than many public colleges due to generous financial aid packages. On the other hand, some colleges might have lower average debt levels because they enroll fewer students with the financial need to take out loans.

Overall, 129 colleges reported average debt loads of more than $35,000 and 49 reported that more than 90 percent of their graduates left with debt. Still, because many colleges do not report average debt and percent of graduates with debt, the TICAS report does not rank colleges based on debt, but rather categorizes several schools into "high-debt" and "low-debt" categories, organized alphabetically.

The 20 high-debt public colleges had average debt levels ranging from $33,950 to $48,850, while the 20 high-debt nonprofit colleges ranged from $41,750 to $71,350. Of the 20 low-debt colleges listed, nine were public and 11 were nonprofit schools, with reported average debt levels ranging between $2,250 and $11,200.

As someone who just left University only 12k in debt, a couple of hundred dollars every month means less money put into the economy, less money towards retirement, less money for healthy groceries, less for everyone and everything. Student debt is a serious problem , 7/10 seniors graduate in debt and it totals 1.2 trillion dollars overall.

But what do I care? I just got a job that comes with health care and a prius!!!!

 

[ugaboga232]

I do hope we're not venturing down the rabbit-hole wherein all research must either be government-funded or is intrinsically suspect.

This is again bringing to mind that time someone proposed that anyone who held public office should never be able to work in "business" again.

I don't think disastermouse was going down that path, just that public colleges are already publicly funded.

Also, i did not read the article so I have goofed and deserve all the lashings. Did not realize there was data in which case that is not a good sign.

Also congrats to campfire for getting their research position!

Spoiler

the world needs more iranian researchers jk theres already too many of us

 

[sphagnum]

This is again bringing to mind that time someone proposed that anyone who held public office should never be able to work in "business" again.

Well, you know, since privately controlled businesses shouldn't exist...

 

[kirblar]

If Trump is good news for Democrats, Cruz is a fucking fantasy for Democrats.

I bet Trump would endorse Hillary if Cruz got the nom.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Josh Kraushaar
‏@HotlineJosh
Unmarried women went Sanders by 10. Huge problem for Clinton in general. Wo their support & enthusiasm, game over.

this guy.....

 

[Cybit]

I bet Trump would endorse Hillary if Cruz got the nom.

100%

 

[Aaron Strife]

Any of you guys who put big money on Trump on PredictIt backing out? I'm down 100 and kind of worried.

 

[disastermouse]

You heard it here first! All researchers are paid shills!

Man, I wonder when my check will come in the mail.

Spoiler

this is me announcing I got the research position I was jockeying for!

I didn't say anything about shills, what I mean is that the research isn't entirely public if it's getting private funding, as private funding selects differently than public funding might, with a different constraint on what constitutes acceptable research. That doesn't make it bad, but it shapes the direction of research differently than would purely public funding.

It's not even that private funding distorts research, just that it provides a different sort of distortion than would purely public research. I see this all the time in medicine, not so much on the research side, as the application side.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

this guy.....

they're clearly going for no abortions rubio

 

[B-Dubs]

Any of you guys who put big money on Trump on PredictIt backing out? I'm down 100 and kind of worried.

I'm still above where I originally bought in so I can ride it out a bit more, but I'm pretty damn skittish at this point. Trump needs to come out all guns blazing in this next week, balls to the fucking wall.

 

[Makai]

I do hope we're not venturing down the rabbit-hole wherein all research must either be government-funded or is intrinsically suspect.

This is again bringing to mind that time someone proposed that anyone who held public office should never be able to work in "business" again.

I think you got it backwards. Or at least I remember the guy who thought people who worked for phramaceuticals should be ineligible from working at the FDA.

 

[User 463088]

You heard it here first! All researchers are paid shills!

Man, I wonder when my check will come in the mail.

Spoiler

this is me announcing I got the research position I was jockeying for!

Congratulations.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think you got it backwards. Or at least I remember the guy who thought people who worked for phramaceuticals should be ineligible from working at the FDA.

No, it wasn't in this thread. That was another time that I was reminded though.
Although, I do think the opposition to Robert Califf is misplaced.

 

[ugaboga232]

No, it wasn't in this thread. That was another time that I was reminded though.
Although, I do think the opposition to Robert Califf is dumb.

Why do they oppose him? Is it just because of his pharma ties or do they worry about other things.

 

[B-Dubs]

Why do they oppose him? Is it just because of his pharma ties or do they worry about other things.

Part of his research was privately funded, so he's being blocked. Considering the guy's reputation it's dumb as fuck and makes me think less of the people blocking him.

 

[Holmes]

I wouldn't put much stock into national polling anymore. We've reached the part where it's all about individual states now. It's time to start looking ahead to New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada too I guess.

 

[ugaboga232]

Part of his research is privately funded, so he's being blocked. Considering the guy's reputation it's dumb as fuck and makes me think less of the people blocking him.

He has been a consultant for everyone and chairman of a lot of drug companies, a lot of conflict of interest there. The pharma-medicine connections weirds me out given all the crap with SSRI's being = to placebo if you actually use all the trials instead of cherry picked ones.

 

[Makai]

I dunno, he looks like he's one doctor's appointment away from making meth

 

[RustyNails]

Ps brain doesn't fully mature till 25 if you wanna get into the details of the critical learning age.

Also college graduates tend to be "better" citizens in terms of a lot of factors (I remember some study/data on that which corrected for income but could be mistaken).

Yeah, you're a fully grown adult when you're 25. Dont make others pay for your fucking diapers by that age. It's embarassing. People under 18 are protected, under guardianship, vulnerable, cannot make life-decisions and have no means of subsisting outside unless you want to bring child labor back. I don't have issues with taxes paying for k through 12. I am more than happy to increase taxes to make that program even better.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Did you accidentally or conveniently miss the article just posted about Sanders supporters chanting "Liar!" at a rally?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...6-democrats-great-divide-213585#ixzz3z3clT7Nd

The animosity and "otherism" is not the same across supporters of both candidates.

No I heard about that. It was one group of people: if you want to criticize them sure, but they don't represent everyone. Just like the sexists and people on Reddit I often seen referenced here.

I guess it's just hard to stomach because I wouldn't do those things and neither would the multiple Bernie supporters I've talked to. I think they're the vocal minority, but I could be swayed by research. You can't deny how easy it is to cling to the bad supporters of an opposing candidate. While I can't think of anything Clinton supporters have said in animosity toward Bernie (people in here have just been critical of his plans and approach, which I respect), we must not forget some Clinton supporters were very nasty to Obama in 2008.

It's no excuse though for the behavior, just an observation how awful people can be in the primaries, even those voting Democrat. Bernie's campaign has asked people to stop. I even told an 18-year-old volunteer who came from North Carolina not to vilify her. I just think we can all be more respectful.

EDIT: I've never seen anything that has persuaded me to believe she's a liar. I understand why some people think so, mostly due to Republican propaganda. Whether there's actually fire from all the smoke I'm not sure.