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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
will repost this from my TRUMP 2016 HQ:
Michael Savage interviews Donald "The Winston Churchill of Our Time" Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSkUzoVF-XI

At least so says radio talk show host Michael Savage, who praised Donald Trump as the “Winston Churchill of our time” during the real estate billionaire’s appearance on Savage’s radio show Wednesday.

Savage, who said he is supporting Trump’s presidential candidacy, talked voter identification laws, immigration and the Iran nuclear deal with the man who is currently leading most Republican presidential primary polls.

Asked about Iran, Trump said it is “inconceivable” that New York Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer, who he always “thought loved Israel,” would support the Iran deal in the Senate.

After Savage interjected to ask whether Schumer has come out to say he is going to support the deal, Trump replied, “nobody knows what he is going to do,” before suggesting Israel might pressure him to oppose it.

“Actually I’m surprised that Israel isn’t putting tremendous pressure on Schumer because they do have a lot of power over Schumer,” Trump said, implying a sitting U.S. senator’s vote could be swayed by the pressure of a foreign power. (RELATED: Savage Says Obama Purging Military Like Stalin)

Savage also pressed Trump on whether he would establish strict voter ID laws through an executive order as president. But before Trump could answer, Savage explained why he actually shouldn’t answer the question.

“I know I don’t want to nail you, I don’t want to get you to say ‘yes’ and then they’ll nail you for that,” Savage said. “‘Trump goes on right wing Savage Show and says’ — right away, they start screaming racism. I get it. I know what they do. I know the game.”

Trump finally broke into Savage’s monologue to say he supports ID laws, though he didn’t say whether he would establish them nationally through executive action.

Towards the end of the interview, Savage asked Trump whether he is really prepared to spend over a billion dollars to win the presidency.

“You’re a rich man, but you know this is going to cost a billion and a half dollars. You surely don’t want to throw all of that out on your own. Are you considering having people donate money or not?” he asked.

Trump said some people send money into his campaign, but he doesn’t want to take large checks because he doesn’t want to be beholden to anyone.

“Michael, one man offered $5 million, they want to put millions in,” Trump explained. “I said, ‘don’t do it because I don’t want to have a position where some day you’re going to need [something].”

Pressed again if he is willing to spend $1.5 billion of his own wealth to win the White House, Trump simply replied, “I’ll see what happens.”
Click to expand...
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Trump is not getting the nomination. Trump is not going to survive the media and ad negative blitz through February. Personally I still hold on to Jeb Bush becoming the nominee.
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Retromelon said:
Please, let us never forget

LhYGQcJ.jpg
Click to expand...

it never caught on :(

i don't think anything Clinton penis related will ever catch fire, i blame the obama media.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
I have no idea, but I'll assume it's something like that, he says it around 16 minutes in the interview, Trump also pulls the "THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME" card a minute or so before.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
NeoXChaos said:
Trump is not getting the nomination. Trump is not going to survive the media and ad negative blitz through February. Personally I still hold on to Jeb Bush becoming the nominee.
Click to expand...

It will be a Bush/Rubio ticket. That's known. Walker will be there just in case Rubio blows up for the VP ticket.
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
I thought president and VP couldn't come from the same state?

Edit: Apparently that was wrong. I probably shouldn't believe everything I read.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
I really do think Trump could carry this thing. This isn't 2012- frustration within the base towards the establishment is higher than ever, and Trump is a tough nut to crack. Usually what happens is: candidate says something dumb, media piles on, candidate yields, backpedals, and ends up weaker. Trump? Trump doesn't give a fuck. He feels NO SHAME. That gives him power.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
GnawtyDog said:
It will be a Bush/Rubio ticket. That's known. Walker will be there just in case Rubio blows up for the VP ticket.
Click to expand...

Do I really have to post again why a Bush/Rubio ticket isn't going to happen?

FiggyCal said:
I thought president and VP couldn't come from the same state?

Edit: Apparently that was wrong. I probably shouldn't believe everything I read.
Click to expand...

They can, but Florida's electors can't vote for both.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
kingkitty said:
there won't be a bush/rubio

a florida governor, and a florida senator? unlikely combo
Click to expand...
Not just unlikely, impossible. IIRC the Constitution forbids electors from voting for both a president and VP from their own state. The GOP would be forfeiting the VP spot because even if they won Florida the electors couldn't pick Rubio as VP (or they could flip it but in that case I think they'd choose Bush and vote someone else as VP).
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I think Trump's liberal past is going to end him. I'd imagine there are dozens of young interns right now scouring libraries and the internet for old Trump comments about Hillary, Reagan, etc.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
I like the theory that Rubio is running to set up a Governor bid in 2018 with an actual eye on 2024.
Aaron Strife said:
The GOP would be forfeiting the VP spot because even if they won Florida the electors couldn't pick Rubio as VP
Click to expand...
Unless the GOP had 270+ electoral votes outside of Florida.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I think Trump's liberal past is going to end him. I'd imagine there are dozens of young interns right now scouring libraries and the internet for old Trump comments about Hillary, Reagan, etc.
Click to expand...
You don't need to do this, Trump already wrote it:
71EVQ7BNBTL.gif


Pro-abortion, pro-extensive campaign finance, pro-universal health care, pro-gun control, pro-same sex marriage, anti-outsourcing, etc.
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Not just unlikely, impossible. IIRC the Constitution forbids electors from voting for both a president and VP from their own state. The GOP would be forfeiting the VP spot because even if they won Florida the electors couldn't pick Rubio as VP (or they could flip it but in that case I think they'd choose Bush and vote someone else as VP).
Click to expand...

impossible unless one of them changes their residence, which probably wont be as easy as it was for Cheney.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
FOX link, but actually AP story:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...der-issued-against-anti-abortion-group-video/
LOS ANGELES – A temporary restraining order has been issued preventing an anti-abortion group from releasing any video of leaders of a California company that provides fetal tissue to researchers. The group is the same one that previously shot viral covert video of a Planned Parenthood leader discussing the sale of aborted fetuses for research.

The Los Angeles Superior Court order issued Tuesday prohibits the Center for Medical Progress from releasing any video of three high-ranking StemExpress officials taken at a restaurant in May. It appears to be the first legal action prohibiting the release of a video from the organization.

The Center for Medical Progress has released three surreptitiously recorded videos to date that have riled anti-abortion activists. The Senate is expected to vote before its August recess on a Republican effort to bar federal aid to Planned Parenthood in the aftermath of the videos' release.

In a statement Wednesday, center leader David Daleiden said StemExpress was using "meritless litigation" to cover up an "illegal baby parts trade."

"The Center for Medical Progress follows all applicable laws in the course of our investigative journalism work," he said.

StemExpress is a Placerville-based company started in 2010 that provides human tissue, blood and other specimens to researchers. Planned Parenthood is one of the company's providers of fetal tissue.

A company spokesman said StemExpress is "grateful its rights have been vindicated in a court of law."
Click to expand...
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Sarah Palin reacted to the controversy over Planned Parenthood harvesting fetal tissue by posting a message asking which symbol killed 90,000 black babies last year: the Confederate flag or the Planned Parenthood logo.

Palin talked to Bill O’Reilly tonight and and lamented how there was so much focus on the Confederate flag as a racist symbol when Planned Parenthood has aborted thousands of black babies.

She even said that they’re “in the business of finding targets so they may attract those who would perhaps be disadvantaged in some ways.” In other words, Palin thinks that Planned Parenthood is specifically targeting women in minority neighborhoods and making them “feel like they are not capable of giving their children life.”
Click to expand...

Allears.png
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Certainly possible but I get the feeling if the Republicans win it'll be a squeaker, enough where the Dem VP could still win a plurality in that instance.

In any case Republicans wouldn't want to chance it.
Click to expand...

Then change the law to make it possible. It is a ridiculous law anyway and I wonder why it was set like that
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
NeoXChaos said:
Then change the law to make it possible. It is a ridiculous law anyway and I wonder why it was set like that
Click to expand...
It was set so electors couldn't just vote for multiple favorite son candidates. And it would require a constitutional amendment, it's in Article II.

The actual restriction is on the electors, they must vote for one candidate not from their state.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Remember, there weren't really "tickets" as we have them today back then. It wasn't really until Andrew Jackson and then especially after William Henry Harrison died that presidential tickets became really important with the selection of a Vice President mattering.

The original, original assumption under the system that was changed with the 12th Amendment was that the #1 person would be the best candidate and the runner-up was second best candidate and thus should be second in line.

Secretary of State was the position of importance from a political point of view.

A number of Vice Presidential candidates were nominated by both parties or voted for by electors of both parties.

Something that should be done with Biden quite frankly.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
benjipwns said:
Remember, there weren't really "tickets" as we have them today back then. It wasn't really until Andrew Jackson and then especially after William Henry Harrison died that presidential tickets became really important with the selection of a Vice President mattering.

The original, original assumption under the system that was changed with the 12th Amendment was that the #1 person would be the best candidate and the runner-up was second best candidate and thus should be second in line.

Secretary of State was the position of importance from a political point of view.

A number of Vice Presidential candidates were nominated by both parties or voted for by electors of both parties.

Something that should be done with Biden quite frankly.
Click to expand...

"VP for life" sounds like a punishment more than anything else, frankly.

And I've always felt that having the runnerup be the vice president was just encouraging assassination attempts. Ideally, your VP should be someone your enemies want in charge even less than you.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
It's actually a hilarious in hindsight oversight considering the results of the first two non-Washington elections with Adams/Jefferson and Jefferson/Burr.

Garfield was assassinated in order to make Arthur the President. At least according to the assassin.

Charles Guiteau turned to politics after failing in several ventures, including theology, a law practice, bill collecting, and time in the utopian Oneida Community. He wrote a speech in support of Ulysses S. Grant called "Grant vs. Hancock", which he later revised to "Garfield vs. Hancock" after Garfield won the Republican nomination in the election of 1880. Guiteau never delivered the speech in a public setting, instead printing several hundred copies,[3] but he believed that this speech, along with his other efforts, was largely responsible for Garfield's narrow victory over Winfield S. Hancock in the election of 1880. Guiteau believed he should have been awarded a diplomatic post for his vital assistance, first asking for Vienna, then settling for Paris.[4] He loitered around Republican headquarters in New York City, expecting rewards for his speech to no avail.[5] Still believing he would be rewarded, Guiteau arrived in Washington on March 5, 1881, the day after Garfield's inauguration, and obtained entrance to the White House and saw the President on March 8, 1881, dropping off a copy of his speech.[6] He spent the next two months roaming around Washington, shuffling back and forth between the State Department and the White House, approaching various Cabinet members and other prominent Republicans and seeking support, to no avail. Guiteau was destitute and increasingly slovenly because he was wearing the same clothes every day. On May 13, 1881, he was banned from the White House waiting room. On May 14, 1881, Secretary of State James G. Blaine told him to "Never speak to me again of the Paris consulship as long as you live."[7]

Guiteau's family had judged him to be insane in 1875 and attempted to have him committed, but Guiteau had escaped.[8] Now his mania took a violent turn. After the encounter with Blaine, Guiteau decided that he had been commanded by God to kill the ungrateful President and is quoted in saying, "I leave my justification to God."[9] Guiteau borrowed $15 and went to purchase a revolver. He knew little about firearms, but knew that he would need a large caliber gun. He chose to buy an ivory-handled .44 Webley British Bulldog revolver over a similar wooden-handled Webley because he thought it would look good as a museum exhibit after the assassination.[10] (The revolver was recovered and displayed by the Smithsonian in the early 20th century, but has since been lost.)[11] He spent the next few weeks in target practice—the kick from the revolver almost knocked him over the first time[10]—and stalking the President. He wrote a letter to Garfield, saying that he should fire Blaine, or "you and the Republican party will come to grief."[12] The letter was ignored,[13] as was all the correspondence Guiteau sent to the White House.[14]

Guiteau continued to prepare carefully, writing a letter in advance to Commanding General of the U.S. Army William Tecumseh Sherman asking for protection from the mob,[15][16] and writing other letters justifying his action as necessary to heal dissension between factions of the Republican Party.[17] He went to the District of Columbia jail, asking for a tour of the facility to see where he would be incarcerated (he was told to come back later).[18] Guiteau spent the whole month of June following Garfield around Washington. On one occasion, he trailed Garfield to the railway station as the President was seeing his wife off to a beach resort in Long Branch, New Jersey, but he decided to shoot him later, as Lucretia, Garfield's wife, was in poor health and he did not want to upset her.
Click to expand...

As he surrendered to authorities, Guiteau uttered the exulting words, repeated everywhere: "'I am a Stalwart of the Stalwarts! I did it and I want to be arrested! Arthur is President now!'"[26] This statement briefly led to unfounded suspicions that Arthur or his supporters had put Guiteau up to the crime.[27] The Stalwarts were a Republican faction loyal to ex-President Grant; they strongly opposed Garfield's Half-Breeds.[28] Like many Vice Presidents, Chester A. Arthur had been selected as a running mate for political advantage—to placate his faction rather than for his skills or loyalty. Guiteau, in his delusion, had convinced himself that he was striking a blow to unite the two factions of the Republican Party.
Click to expand...
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
Nice to know. Well, the Republican ticket just got weaker in my view. Bush/Rubio ticket has a greater chance than any other combo possible among the GOP candidates.

BUSH/Rubio > BUSH/Walker > Rubio/BUSH > Rubio/Walker. The other contenders are lightweight. I guess Rand could spice it up as a VP pick but no way in hell he's getting that. Christie is a timing bomb when under the scope so yeah no.

Bush/Walker ehhh? What's really going to be interesting is Clinton's VP pick. Certainly not Bernie. John Edwards could of been the perfect pick had he not fucked it up in 08. Dems need new blood. O'Malley I guess - in his prime per say. Perfect for the white vote worried about Clinton's age. Minorities am cry tho...
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
GnawtyDog said:
Nice to know. Well, the Republican ticket just got weaker in my view. Bush/Rubio ticket has a greater chance than any other combo possible among the GOP candidates.

BUSH/Rubio > BUSH/Walker > Rubio/BUSH > Rubio/Walker. The other contenders are lightweight. I guess Rand could spice it up as a VP pick but no way in hell he's getting that. Christie is a timing bomb when under the scope so yeah no.

Bush/Walker ehhh? What's really going to be interesting is Clinton's VP pick. Certainly not Bernie. John Edwards could of been the perfect pick had he not fucked it up in 08. Dems need new blood. O'Malley I guess - in his prime per say.
Click to expand...

Bush will most likely go with a Kasich like pick or a demgraphic like pick in Sandoval or Martinez. Walker will go with a Rubio like pick and Rubio will probably go with a Kasich like pick.

Clinton will probably go by who the Republican nominee is and his VP nominee. If its a close race, look to Kaine from VA. If the VP nominee is demographic, look to Secretary Castro.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Clinton is picking an old hand. Vilsack and Bayh were the two that came to mind a few weeks ago to me though they don't entirely fit the model I'll lay out.

She'll want a non-threat to her. If they're someone favorable in Clinton circles, all the better.

She'll also want the HISTORIC factor to be her, not the VP.

"Successful" Presidencies are those that pick an established, party hand as the Veep. Bush, Gore, Cheney, Biden.

Gore was young when tapped as VP, but he had been in Congress for 16 years and run for President himself.

The key of the people I named is that they can work Congress and other Washington officials while the President can focus on their shit. This was the failure of Carter, Bush and initially Obama. They didn't make friends in Congress. Cheney and Biden were tapped for their foreign policy credentials, but both also had establishment ties, and Biden especially had a lot of Senate buddies. H.W. Bush had party ties and bureaucratic ties which gave Reagan cover (and later Iran-Contra but that's another story).

LBJ was more important to JFK as a Congressional wrangler than he was as a ticket balancer.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
benjipwns said:
Clinton is picking an old hand. Vilsack and Bayh were the two that came to mind a few weeks ago to me though they don't entirely fit the model I'll lay out.

She'll want a non-threat to her. If they're someone favorable in Clinton circles, all the better.

She'll also want the HISTORIC factor to be her, not the VP.

"Successful" Presidencies are those that pick an established, party hand as the Veep. Bush, Gore, Cheney, Biden.

Gore was young when tapped as VP, but he had been in Congress for 16 years and run for President himself.

The key of the people I named is that they can work Congress and other Washington officials while the President can focus on their shit. This was the failure of Carter, Bush and initially Obama. They didn't make friends in Congress. Cheney and Biden were tapped for their foreign policy credentials, but both also had establishment ties, and Biden especially had a lot of Senate buddies. H.W. Bush had party ties and bureaucratic ties which gave Reagan cover (and later Iran-Contra but that's another story).

LBJ was more important to JFK as a Congressional wrangler than he was as a ticket balancer.
Click to expand...

I think Kaine fits that mold a little clearer because he's still in Congress, versus Bayh. And a Clinton loyalist. Kiss the ring.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
benjipwns said:
The key of the people I named is that they can work Congress and other Washington officials while the President can focus on their shit.

LBJ was more important to JFK as a Congressional wrangler than he was as a ticket balancer.
Click to expand...

Good points about needing a congressional wrangler. I still think she needs youthful age on her ticket, the 40-60 at most kind (and of course, male).

O'Malley should be a solid work in progress for the future in case of any catastrophes (like failing to win, or losing a second term). Still need more blood to rise up on the ranks.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Kaine's only been in the Senate for three years (on election day) though. He's a nobody. Bayh was governor of a midwestern state and had 12 years in the Senate and he's a Clintonite.

Vilsack was Governor of a midwestern state and has been Secretary of Agriculture for eight years, and he's a Clintonite, co-chair of her 2008 campaign

Boxer, Cantwell and Murray are possible if Hillary wanted to go for a two-fer.

I think Ron Wyden (20 years in the Senate, and was in the House before that) is a decent pick, but I don't think he's a Clintonite.

Is Bill Nelson?

Retromelon said:
Youth is overrated. Give me a wrinkly ancient fuck that knows what they're doing
Click to expand...
Can I interest you in a Patrick Leahy?

He's been in TWO Batman movies.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
That's a good idea, Hillary should reach across the aisle. Pick Jindal or Cruz.

Replace them with some boring milquetoast GOPer and you have a David Brooks column for next spring.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
Retromelon said:
Youth is overrated. Give me a wrinkly ancient fuck that knows what they're doing
Click to expand...

To me, the ticket doesn't want to look too old. It's all about public perception. Clinton is old AND a woman. It's the question of: Will you ask the public to vote for a women president that has an "age" stigma around her with an also old-white VP? Ehh...unless the "old" VP pick is a no brainier (due to popularity and whatnot) go with some youth and fire.

Obama had a solid combo....youth (Obama) /veteran white (Biden) - Synergy right there.

In Hillary's case, the reverse. That's just my preference view. Looked up Kaine, solid resume.
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
benjipwns said:
Kaine's only been in the Senate for three years (on election day) though. He's a nobody. Bayh was governor of a midwestern state and had 12 years in the Senate and he's a Clintonite.

Vilsack was Governor of a midwestern state and has been Secretary of Agriculture for eight years, and he's a Clintonite, co-chair of her 2008 campaign
Click to expand...

Kaine was also governor of Virginia or do you only care about midwestern governors?
 
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