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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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NYCmetsfan

Banned
Chichikov said:
It worked really well in places like Singapore, South Korea and China, in many markets, from shipbuilding, through electronics to real-estate.
That is not to say that central planning is always great, and it's quite easy to find many examples for terrible central planning (just as you can find examples where free markets worked terribly), but I don't think the often repeated idea that central planning is always bad for most market is supported by historical facts.
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I think we're differing on what is central planning.

I'm talking on quotas and unchanging 5 year plans. Not state funding and ownership and involvement. I'm not saying the state can't be the director. But that market forces drive the economy. All those examples had leaders willing to change as circumstances did. Aka they weren't what I'd call central planning.
 
G

giga

Member
Apparently some on the right think Paul Ryan is too liberal: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/us/politics/latest-unease-on-right-ryan-is-too-far-left.html

He is being criticized on issues ranging from a 2008 vote to bail out large banks to his longstanding interest in immigration reform to his work on a bipartisan budget measure. On Sunday night, the Drudge Report — a prime driver of conservative commentary — dedicated separate headlines to bashing Mr. Ryan on policy positions.

Even a self-congratulatory book outlining how Mr. Ryan and two other Republican House leaders drafted Tea Party candidates to help them take over the House in 2010 — “Young Guns” — is being recast by some as a manual of how to be traitorous to conservatism.
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:jnc
 
C

Chichikov

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
I think we're differing on what is central planning.

I'm talking on quotas and unchanging 5 year plans. Not state funding and ownership and involvement. I'm not saying the state can't be the director. But that market forces drive the economy. All those examples had leaders willing to change as circumstances did. Aka they weren't what I'd call central planning.
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South Korea, China and Singapore all had/have five years plan, also, those plans exerted direct governmental control over companies and the economy, for example, Hyundai got into shipbuilding pretty much because of the 3rd 5 years plan, and it worked pretty damn well. You argument is not against central planning but against shitty central planning, which I agree, can be pretty bad.

Also, five year plans are note meant to be unchanging (and historically they weren't, even the shitty ones) but to present a long term roadmap for efforts that are outside the scope of the day to day business operations.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Chichikov said:
South Korea, China and Singapore all had/have five years plan, also, those plans exerted direct governmental control over companies and the economy, for example, Hyundai got into shipbuilding pretty much because of the 3rd 5 years plan, and it worked pretty damn well. You argument is not against central planning but against shitty central planning, which I agree, can be pretty bad.

Also, five year plans are note meant to be unchanging (and historically they weren't, even the shitty ones) but to present a long term roadmap for efforts that are outside the scope of the day to day business operations.
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Your trying to defend your "central planning good " thesis than argue with my point
 
C

Chichikov

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
Your trying to defend your "central planning good " thesis than argue with my point
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I'm not sure I follow, you said "state planning doesn't work for most markets", I don't think that's true and I tried to back it up by showing some examples when state planning worked remarkably well in markets outside defense, health care, and transportation.

Also, I'm not saying "central planning good", I'm saying "central planning can be good".
There's quite a difference.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Oblivion said:
I never understood the concept of this idea. If you're saving up your own money, to spend on yourself when you get sick, why do you even need to set up an HSA to begin with? Why not just pay like you would normally when you get sick? What's the incentive?
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HSAs are great for young, healthy single people who rarely need to use health care. They're pretty lousy for lots of other people.

I've had an HSA through work for three years. My employer has given us quite a bit of money to incentivize it. Between my own contributions and my employer's, I now have about $10K in my HSA. But as others have noted, that could be wiped out easily if I were to face a serious illness or injury.

A lot of my coworkers - especially the ones with families - have been very displeased with our HSAs. To push it as a way to somehow fix our healthcare system is absurd. It's only good for a very select group of people.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
I hate HSA's. Being relatively young (26) I could see how someone around my age would benefit, but everyone around my age is too busy worrying about getting raises and paying down student loans to invest in an HSA. I hate most things related to health insurance though--firmly support Universal/Single Payer solutions rather than putting the burden on employers.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
HSAs are like paying to have an airbag that can only go off once for your entire lifetime.

Having it wiped out by stuff regular insurance would take care of makes it completely useless for anyone past age 30 or anyone with kids.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Cheebo said:
http://m.nydailynews.com/entertainm...arco-rubio-1b-campaign-gift-article-1.2388015

Rubio is going to be the nominee. Koch or no Koch.
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Classifying the Kochs as "kingmaking," especially after Scott Walker, is pretty fucking hilarious.

New York Daily News said:
“It shows how pragmatic they are,” says our insider. “They’re not going to back a loser. They saw their horse couldn’t make it around the track and started looking for other options.”
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They literally JUST BACKED A LOSER.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Trump is live-tweeting the debate tonight. My goodness, he's good at this - he's going to make it all about him.

The debate tweebuttal?
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
BertramCooper said:
Classifying the Kochs as "kingmaking," especially after Scott Walker, is pretty fucking hilarious.



They literally JUST BACKED A LOSER.
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They never full out backed Walker I believe. Just were leaning that way but hadn't decided who to back yet. Walker didn't have any money. One of his main reasons who couldn't last the poor polling.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
Really, the Kochs' influence isn't going to be truly frightening to me until the Republican Party decides to fully embrace their brand of libertarian-leaning conservatism.

And I don't see that happening for quite a while. The party is still far too socially conservative.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Roland_Gunner said:
A new ABC poll has HRC's popularity moving back to 47% / 49% unpopular. Not great numbers clearly but if that can stabilize she should still comfortably win next year. Just one datapoint but ABC is a high quality poll.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clin...ts-independents-table-turns/story?id=34425648
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I think this is only expected after McCarthy's gaffe, and it should improve even more - particularly with the prospect of this lawsuit from an ex-staffer over the committee.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Nazgul_Hunter said:
Excuse the shitty website, but I thought this was hilarious. CNN used a planted Jeb! intern to ask a question to Donald Trump. Not just that but she (probably) pretended to be a pro-choice feminist to make it even more confrontational.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/13/busted-cnn-uses-jeb-bush-staffer-planted-in-audience-to-frame-donald-trump-narrativehit-job/
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I think the narrative is backwards there. A Jeb! intern planned to take a shot and tipped CNN off, more likely.

That website making this a CNN plot is to be expected considering the slant.
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
I'm a big fan of this girl that "sparred" with trump. http://youtu.be/0RAH7MN_pKo

Nazgul_Hunter said:
Excuse the shitty website, but I thought this was hilarious. CNN used a planted Jeb! intern to ask a question to Donald Trump. Not just that but she (probably) pretended to be a pro-choice feminist to make it even more confrontational.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/10/13/busted-cnn-uses-jeb-bush-staffer-planted-in-audience-to-frame-donald-trump-narrativehit-job/
Click to expand...

Ha. Oh well.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
See I told you guys all these "tough question" people are jeb plants. I'm sure that "we got a moslem problem" guy was a jeb plant too like the conservative blogs initially thought.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Jeb: "Being on Medicaid isn’t necessarily better than being uninsured"
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Jeb and Kasich and the rest of the "moderates" seriously don't get that people like these social programs. At this point, I have to think they're just stupid people.
 
U

User1608

Banned
BertramCooper said:
Cool, more people on GAF who think Bernie Sanders is going to win over moderate Republicans.
Click to expand...
Yeah. One has to be very realistic and patient when it comes to making major progress in this country. Not only will it take more than one presidential term, or even two, but it will also take voting locally and during the midterms and so on and on. One candidate can't do it all alone, no matter how great their proposals/plans are. Basically naivety is silly.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
params7 said:
Trump retweeted this video, courtesy 4chan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKH6PAoUuD0
Click to expand...
qglKrml.jpg


What a time to be alive.

By the way, I wasn't following the thread too closely, but are we doing the Rubio/Rufio thing?
I'm asking for a friend.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Oh my god, I miss him so much. The next GOP debate isn't soon enough. The dems don't provide material like my main man Trump can.
 
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