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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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In politics, you never hear answers get that honest. Everything a candidate says is always spun to cast them in the best possible light. Chafee won my respect tonight
I think I am seeing what I said before that supporters is going to say their side won.
It should be obvious by now that I am no hillary fan and I readily admit she carried the day
I have no idea why either Webb or Chafee are running, and I don't think anybody else does either.
I take chafees permanent hint of a smile on his lips and his support of the metric system to mean he is an expert troll
 
I think I am seeing what I said before that supporters is going to say their side won. Probably best to wait for the polls I know many people thought Ben was bad, but it turned out differently. Hillary , Bernie, and O'Malley did well though.
 
O'Malley reminds me of that Congressman that Adam Scott worked for in Parks and Rec.

I can see him spending his work days sitting in his office starting into space with a dumb grin on his face for hours.

I could see him being a good VP though, if only he were from a swing state.
 

pigeon

Banned
He's definitely endearing. Fuck Webb and O'Malley, though.

I mean, he's like your hapless uncle. Sure, you can't hate him for admitting that he's bad at his job, but you probably also don't promote him.

However, you CAN hate him for refusing to shut up about how he would end a war that's been over for like five years.
 

Makai

Member
Do these guys have any ulterior motive in running. Like, assuming they know Hillary will win. I can't see Hillary including Webb, Chafee, or Sanders in her cabinet or ticket.
 

Makai

Member
I mean, he's like your hapless uncle. Sure, you can't hate him for admitting that he's bad at his job, but you probably also don't promote him.

However, you CAN hate him for refusing to shut up about how he would end a war that's been over for like five years.
My favorite part was defending his record as a Republican.
 

pigeon

Banned
Do these guys have any ulterior motive in running. Like, assuming they know Hillary will win. I can't see Hillary including Webb, Chafee, or Sanders in her cabinet or ticket.

Sanders wants to pull the party to the left. I still don't think he ever intended to win.

O'Malley is trying to get a position.

I have no idea why either Webb or Chafee are running, and I don't think anybody else does either.
 

User1608

Banned
I really liked O'Malley tonight. Hillary and Bernie did pretty good overall too. What a stark difference between the Democratic and GOP debates in comparison to even 8 years ago. It's crazy.
 
Bern stumbled out of the race. I think the gun debate was his lowest point. But he definitely recovered his composure and "Enough with your emails" line was the best of the debate. He closed strong.

Hillary dominated the debate throughout, and hit the ground running. Definitely a seasoned debater. Some of the "I'm a woman" wink wink stuff was dumb, but she's too fucking smart to just throw it out there. She is playing to the general election crowd. Her pivot towards Republicans was key, especially the part about Planned Parenthood. Closing was standard.

O Malley had the best closing statement. He had a "breakout" performance. I liked his answers overall, and seemed genuine. He didn't falter at the zero tolerance question from AC. I actually wouldn't mind if were a frontrunner, as long as he had the organization to pull it off.

Chaffee. Come on dude man. He honestly seems like a nice, genuine dad guy. I know you were thrust into the federal legislative government around when your father passed away, and it was your very first vote. But honestly that reasoning is simply a deal-breaker. It's over for him. It glaringly shows why you're not prepared to handle tough situations.

Webb: when i was just a baby, my mama told me son. always be a good boy, don't ever play with gun but I shot a man in reno, just to watch him die
 

teiresias

Member
I'm just glad the precedent was set to call out the Republican Party en masse. They're doing enough damage to this country, and the few moderates refuse to fight back, that it's about time to just call them out for what they and their horrible policies are . . . a road to third world status.
 
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I am having Ron Paul flashbacks. Help.
 

Makai

Member
My opinion of Chafee is actually better then yesterday.

Hillary -> Up
Sanders -> Same
O'Malley -> Down
Webb -> Plummet
 

benjipwns

Banned
I have no idea why either Webb or Chafee are running, and I don't think anybody else does either.
Chafee is using some kind of combination of the Crist playbook and the Fiorina playbook of trying to fail upwards.

Polling terribly in your re-election race? Switch to the Democratic Party!
Polling terribly in the primary race? Bail out and run for President!
 
I think Hillary will go up slightly, Sanders will maybe breaking 30% , O'malley will go up, and the last two probably won't. Although, whatever surge there is it will be temporary for a bit kinda like for Carly .
 

Bowdz

Member
I posted the same question in the debate thread. Do you think Hillary did enough to dissuade Biden from entering the race?
 
Bernie will have to realize a debate isn't the same as a stump speech, he did alright but I don't think this will lead to more momentum.

Hillary on the other hand was on point, her performance definitely will send a message to Uncle Joe.
 
Okay, yeah, I think anyone would be proud of this one I suppose:

On 10 July 1969, while participating in a company-sized search and destroy operation deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb’s platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex which appeared to be unoccupied. Deploying his men into defensive positions, First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers. Accompanied by one of his men, he then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. When the hostile soldiers failed to answer him and threw a grenade which detonated dangerously close to him, First Lieutenant Webb detonated a claymore mine in the bunker aperture, accounting for two enemy casualties and disclosing the entrance to a tunnel. Despite the smoke and debris from the explosion and the possibility of enemy soldiers hiding in the tunnel, he then conducted a thorough search which yielded several items of equipment and numerous documents containing valuable intelligence data. Continuing the assault, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade. Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body. Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Sanders' two big advantages over Clinton are that he seems genuinely progressive and that he's promising to fight.

The guns thing is really terrible for Sanders because it both makes him seem less liberal and makes him look like a typical politician - you can't watch that part of the debate and not come away thinking that he's got the position he's got because he's a Senator from Vermont. It especially hurts because this was one of the first topics that the candidates got to talk about at length; the first impression Sanders made on a lot of people is that he's a louder, more moderate Clinton who for some reason calls himself a socialist.

Meanwhile, Clinton played up her willingness to fight Republicans. There was the email stuff, her Planned Parenthood comments, her naming Republicans generally as the political enemy she's proudest to have made. On three occasions she leaned heavily on potentially being the first woman president in such a way as to invite Republican attacks where she can then immediately pivot to her resume.

There wasn't obvious distance between Clinton and Sanders on a lot of issues relating to inequality. There were disagreements about tactics, but they were of the sort that are hard to adjudicate. The very first thing Sanders did was to emphasize that he was on the same page as Clinton re: capitalism, entrepreneurship, and even "medium-sized businesses". Clinton's one big mistake here was the bizarre "cut it out" thing. Yeah, Sanders has his free college and $15 minimum wage stuff, but nobody even challenged this; it plays as old man yells at cloud rather than serious socialist alternative if he doesn't get to defend it against the obvious criticisms.

I think that to the extent that some of the Sanders vote is a not-Clinton vote, she reassured people tonight. Sanders seems less the ideologically pure alternative to the untrustworthy Clinton. Clinton spent a lot of time talking up herself as Obama's third term, and her answer on the Iraq War ("Obama trusted my judgment") I think shows her strategy for getting people to trust that she's authentically liberal - people like Obama and Obama likes her.
 
The fact that Vermont and NH were the two most active states despite holding such tiny populations shows just how disproportionate his representation is on those mediums.
 
The fact that Vermont and NH were the two most active states despite holding such tiny populations shows just how disproportionate his representation is on those mediums.

That could easily be explained by two things:

1. Only a small fraction of the US population watched the debate.
2. A way bigger average of Vermont residents watched it because Sanders awareness is really high there and he is captured into the "local hero" phenomenon

Not saying the data shows anything meaningful, of course.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
Sanders' two big advantages over Clinton are that he seems genuinely progressive and that he's promising to fight.

One of the great things about Sanders is also his refusal for running a campaign based on cheap personal attacks and the like. It's such a breath of fresh air to see campaigns run like this - how they all SHOULD run. It's definitely being under-looked on the bigger picture but inside the democratic primary it has certainly set the tone and standard. Gotta love that as a Dem. Look at the standard set by Trump - the GOP primary is a big fat joke. Of course the media would rather feast on drama and the back-and-forth instead of praising such civility in public discourse.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I NEED POLLS. NOW.



Clinton > Sanders > O´Malley >>>>>>>>>> who?

Sanders didnt have the punch out performance he needed. But I think it was a good "presentation" for him.

Straight up poll of who won would go to Clinton.

In the actual primary vote, Sanders will close the gap a little more thanks to having so much more to gain from the debate than Clinton had, but no where near the rocketship Sanders fans were hoping for.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Damn I forgot Pataki was still in it.

He should've ran in 2008, or 2012, why the fuck did he wait until now?
He wouldn't challenge Rudy in 2008 (same donor base, same voting base, but a lesser version), and didn't want to run against Obama.

He's altered his positions slightly since launching his bid, by my measures he's probably the most "left-wing" candidate in a GOP field since mayybbe Johm McCain version 2000 or at least Lynn Morley Martin/Arlen Specter in 1996. I don't know if he could have picked a worse field to run in.

Maybe they should trade him to the Democrats for Jim Webb and a future fourth round pick. He's actually pro-gun control for one thing.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Apparently Webster's Dictionary's website had a huge spike on searches for the word "Socialism".

Unfortunately I don't think any of those definitions describes Sanders' actual positions very well.

If you're going to take the route of reclaiming words lost to the Reagan era, I'd prefer to try to take back the word "redistribution" over taking back the word "socialist". Something like "the last 40 years has seen wealth redistributed up towards the billionaire class, and it's time to redistribute that wealth back down towards working class people that are truely the ones creating all the value in the economy."
 

benjipwns

Banned
Socialism wasn't lost to the Reagan era. It wasn't Reagan who threw Debs in prison. Hell, Reagan fought against the Hollywood blacklist as the head of the union lol. American opposition to "SOCIALISM" has always been more of a nationalistic/xenophobic thing than an ideological thing I find.

Your redistribution thing just sends you into the weeds of who really "deserves" or "created" wealth. "You didn't build that" redux.
 
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