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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print
- Thread starter ivysaur12
- Start date
- Status
Unless you're black.
The bolded is exactly what Obama did and how he ran and look how that turned out. These aren't people to reach out to. They really are villains. Fuck 'em.
Wait for him to open his mouth again?
There's no way in hell the guy will beat Hillary in swing states in the general election. None. The guy's nuts.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Remember Palin polled well at one point. He's dumber than Palin. You have nothing to worry about.
BertramCooper
Banned
Biden is an old white man. Of course he gets along better with the old white men who dominate Republican Congressional leadership than a black president or a female president would. I don't find this to be a compelling selling point for a Biden presidency.
And I'm not sure how well this message of tolerance for Republicans is going to fly with minority voters who've seen an unprecedented amount of bile thrown at a black president for the last seven years.
Retromelon
Member
Fuck em is not a solution
Look, you want to fix the polarization? A Primary factor behind it is people only going to their news source (AKA fox news and to a lesser extent MSNBC, or drudge report, redstate, DailyKos, etc). I'm not sure how you go about fixing it at this point, but look at when Fox News got really popular (early to mid 2000's) and that's when we started to become much more polarized.
How do you reverse that?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I don't think the country needs to be 'healed' so much as it STILL needs a reckoning for the Bush admin and for the economic collapse. Everything we see today -- the Tea Party, the Freedom Caucus, Trump, Sanders, all of these are different aftershocks of people coming to terms with the mortal wound those 8 years did to the US that nobody wants to talk about.
That's why Trump calling out Jeb's bullshit "he kept us safe" is so momentous. That's why Sanders is gaining traction for pointing out the combined problem of the 1% and money in politics has so much traction. That's why Biden's nonsense about Republicans being our friends is so fucking dangerous.
Sure it is. Fuck 'em. Hillary wins, does some executive action, stacks the supreme court, and we wait for gerrymandering to loosen a bit and for the hard liners to die off even more. I dunno what more we can actually do.
Biden running to the right of Hillary ain't gonna work in a primary in this climate either. Even more rational people like me are saying fuck 'em to the right after 8 years of their garbage. You can't call people saying what Trump and Carson are saying "friends" anymore.
RustyNails
Member
It's the best solution. You don't negotiate with infants and terrorists.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
This reads like you didn't live through the Clinton admin. Or the Bush admin or Obama admin for that matter.
BertramCooper
Banned
Neither is "give them an old white man because they hate women and black people."
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
(did I just see Joe Fucking Lieberman opening for Trump? Was that today or recently? Anyone need further proof he's the most cynical and inauthentic pol other than McCain in recent history?)
Pretty much this is how I see it. If we really have to give them an old white dude in order to get things done in this country, fuck 'em.
Especially because "getting things done" probably amounts to some bullshit compromise. Compromise with republicans in this environment probably means cutting women's healthcare. It probably means black lives still won't matter.
shinra-bansho
Member
So, this is probably premature, but how long until Biden drops out if/when he gets in and if/when he doesn't gain any traction in polling, fundraising, endorsements. Or would one expect him to stick it out to the bitter end?
Because after this extended dithering it would seem a pretty inauspicious end to an otherwise pretty stellar political career to drop out of your third presidential campaign after like a month or two.
Because after this extended dithering it would seem a pretty inauspicious end to an otherwise pretty stellar political career to drop out of your third presidential campaign after like a month or two.
This is the only way we're going to get rid of FPTP, installing alternative votes at the state and local level so people get used to it, then introduce it nationally.
Right. "They're my friends" doesn't do well when you're talking about people cutting your healthcare if you're a woman or basically defending killing you on the streets if you're black.
An old white guy saying "they're my friends" to a bunch of racists ain't gonna play well.
Nah. Fuck. The. Republicans.
As an ex Republican, they held our fucking country hostage and shut down our government and ruined the faith in the US dollar for YEARS over poor people getting healthcare.
The party needs to get fucking pummeled so that it's pretend reality bubble pops and the party fucking reboots.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Honestly I think we'll see his 17% or whatever it was drop the moment he jumps in. What a disaster of a message.
It looks more like he's trying to steal Hillary's spot as the pragmatist who can get things done in the race.
Retromelon
Member
It was with the help of congressional republicans that clinton got his surplus, so..
I would be happy if Hillary echoed his words too
It's better than negotiating with a bunch of racists.
Watch these Biden tweets be trolling all along and he plays us like a fiddle by not announcing a run.
Or he is announcing a run :|
Or he is announcing a run :|
I was really tempted to restrain myself and not say roaches, but here I am because I have no discipline
NYCmetsfan
Banned
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/656477320182636544
Who knew a tweet about star wars would be so revealing of the complete lack of any sense of morality within neoconservatism.
The empire blows up an entire planet, tortures people, sells them to slavers, summarily execute people, builds weapons of mass destruction and uses them, has no democratic principles (actually intentionally sabotaged those that existed), suppresses religious freedom for those that don't agree with their leaders religion, etc, etc.
but in their minds they can watch all that and say "no objective evidence of evil"
its a tweet about a movie but this is the mind set of people who want to bomb iran, bomb syria, fund immoral proxies, who already bombed and occupied iraq, who want to demolish a state and its people (and who deny they exist).
These people are actively evil, they are war criminals and will forever be a stain on our nation.
Who knew a tweet about star wars would be so revealing of the complete lack of any sense of morality within neoconservatism.
The empire blows up an entire planet, tortures people, sells them to slavers, summarily execute people, builds weapons of mass destruction and uses them, has no democratic principles (actually intentionally sabotaged those that existed), suppresses religious freedom for those that don't agree with their leaders religion, etc, etc.
but in their minds they can watch all that and say "no objective evidence of evil"
its a tweet about a movie but this is the mind set of people who want to bomb iran, bomb syria, fund immoral proxies, who already bombed and occupied iraq, who want to demolish a state and its people (and who deny they exist).
These people are actively evil, they are war criminals and will forever be a stain on our nation.
BertramCooper
Banned
Because the GOP of today is totally comparable to the GOP of the 90s.
Come the fuck on, dude.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Somebody needs to see a mashup of Bill Clinton calling out Republicans, I see. Triangulation came AFTER he divided them and embarrassed them.
Retromelon
Member
I didn't initiate the comparison, it was the guy i quoted. And it's not like there aren't similarities. Contract on america anyone
I thought the balanced budget was primarily a result of the 1993 OmniBus bill the Democratic congress passed before the GOP took congress?
Retromelon
Member
Please, don't let me impinge upon your 1st amendment rights
Gingrich also got him to cut some entitlement spending I believe.
I have no delusions about that. All I'm saying is that you need some of them to help you with shit and "fuck em all" is not the right attitude to take
You're delusional if you think the current Republicans have any desire to actually govern or allow a dem to look competent.
It was with the help of congressional republicans that clinton got his surplus, so..
It was with the help of congressional republicans that Clinton started the era of mass incarceration. It was with the help of congressional republicans that we got DOMA. It was with he help of congressional republicans that we repealed Glass-Steagall.
While I realize some of those aren't particularly publicly toxic and Bill is still technically popular, we did just witness a debate with an argument over Glass-Steagall, and we have had Hillary having to answer BLM on the topic of mass incarceration, too.
The other problem is I don't think Biden can run on bringing back Bill Clinton politics against Hillary fucking Clinton.
BertramCooper
Banned
I'm all for bipartisanship when it's appropriate. I'm all for Republicans and Democrats working together to find common solutions even though they may be tackling an issue from fundamentally different ideologies.
What I'm not for is appeasing Republicans' worst tendencies by handing them someone they can supposedly work with - because that person is ALWAYS going to be a white man.
What I'm not for is appeasing Republicans' worst tendencies by handing them someone they can supposedly work with - because that person is ALWAYS going to be a white man.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
You can't blame bush for 9/11.
Dick cheney said so.....
The complete abetting by the media of republican evasion on the very real fact bush was president for 9 months before 9/11 is astonishing.
Retromelon
Member
I hate hate hate posting so much but I cannot let myself go undefended. I never said that the crime bill was a good thing. I said that one of clinton's biggest achievements was a good thing that was achieved with the help of politicians outside his party. Stick to to the topic please
Roland_Gunner
Member
After the 2008 elections you had a President elected with over 350 EV and a near filibuster proof Senate. Republicans dug in even deeper and were rewarded for it hugely. If that wasn't enough to wake up conservatives I don't know what will.
And every effort was made to include Republicans in the Affordable Care Act negotiations, changes were made from suggestions they put forward and still not a single one voted for it.
Roland_Gunner
Member
The crime bill was, in retrospect, a huge mistake but the idea that it "started the era of mass incarceration" is completely untrue. This chart shows that it didn't do anything to speed up the rate that incarceration hat had been climbing since 1980.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think the bigger issue Biden is going to face is:
1. Every movable vote -- the small minority of sane conservatives and the few, probably sexist/racist liberals to the right of Hillary -- can see that Republicans really are the problem right now. Everyone can see it.
2. Cheney is an uncontested villain in basically every circle. Who does hugging up to him appeal to?
3. If you want to squint and imagine how this message works in the general, I GUESS I can see how it could work, assuming you think Biden captures some portion of 'NASCAR dads' who used to be the union vote but moved right because racism/sexism/gun rights.
4. But how on earth can he get through primaries with 'Republicans aren't the problem'? The message is a disaster if only because it suggests he's been out to lunch for 8 years and didn't participate one bit in the same admin facing daily accusations of treason, high crimes, intent to destroy the US, and just the vast swath of nonsense emanating from basically every conservative politician and media outlet.
5. Who does this message serve? It's fucking nonsense and wrong and a mistake and helps nobody. It's wrong. Republicans are not our or anybody's friends, other than Big Oil and Big Money. My god man.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I'm glad neocons have at least linked themselves to The Empire at this point though.
BertramCooper
Banned
I just don't see the point in pushing for bipartisanship at this particular point in time when the major right-wing party is so fundamentally broken that it can't even negotiate with itself, let alone the left-wing party.
I mean, bipartisanship can work when we're dealing with two functional political parties. What's the point of Democrats bending over backwards to appease Republicans when the Republican Party is holding a gun to its own head?
I mean, bipartisanship can work when we're dealing with two functional political parties. What's the point of Democrats bending over backwards to appease Republicans when the Republican Party is holding a gun to its own head?
Retromelon
Member
even if they wanted to vote for it they couldn't. They would get fucking massacred in the midterms.
I'm just saying that those are the things that happen in the name of compromise, and if all we get for that is "surplus," well count me out. I don't really find the concept of a surplus to be that compelling.
Fenderputty
Banned
This seems like a self defeating post, but continue on.
So are we assuming that Biden is actually running?
I mean in the sense that you can totally consider "fuck em" as a solution to roachesPlease, don't let me impinge upon your 1st amendment rights
Abinash117
Member
Biden might jump in because of Bernie not being a good alternative to Hillary.
But I don't think Biden will last long and could end up like Romney early this year .
But I don't think Biden will last long and could end up like Romney early this year .
That's sort of insane. Is that just all the debate and the shift in coverage?
Jesus fuck
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Is there a video with American war crimes under Dubya put to the Imperial March?
It just seems like you have decided to completely ignore how open Obama was to reaching across the aisle and compromise for his first two years in office and decide that the democrats somehow didn't do enough to engage these Republicans who will supposedly work with democrats.
Short of resigning or impeaching himself I don't know how else he was supposed to cater to them.
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