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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

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Bloomberg has a poll out centered around the hot issues. Split or leaning towards Obama's position on every issue but refugees which is overwhelmingly negative.

GOP knew how to pick their battle. It's the easiest debate.
 
ppppolls said:
We'll have our new national GOP poll tmrw. Only 2 candidates have seen meaningful change in their support since October- Cruz up, Bush down
PPP's got a new national poll out tomorrow, showing Cruz moving into third.

Don't count Trump out of Iowa, he's got the guy that engineered Santorum's win there behind him.
Also worth pointing out that although many people assume that an evangelical candidate will win Iowa, Santorum only beat Romney by 0.03% in the 2012 caucuses. There's still a sizable minority of self-identified "moderate" Iowan Republicans (around 20% according to PPP) and Trump is absolutely dominating among them. He has the potential to assemble a unique coalition of moderates, tea-partiers, anti-establishment 2012 Paulites, and first time voters to overcome his deficit among evangelicals (that I think Cruz rather than Carson will win), and it looks like he has the operation to acheive it.
 

Cerium

Member
I really hope the Trump-Cruz alliance is really a thing. If Cruz throws his delegates to Trump, Trump has this on lockdown.
 

Holmes

Member
Also having Carson and Cruz still in the race in Iowa will split that evangelical vote, and Bush is falling more and more into irrelevance, which will further help Trump.
 
Bloomberg has a poll out centered around the hot issues. Split or leaning towards Obama's position on every issue but refugees which is overwhelmingly negative.

GOP knew how to pick their battle. It's the easiest debate.
Yeah, I saw it on CNN. It was some 50+% against and only 22% for accepting them. 11% only wanted Christians. Ridiculous.

Curious how the Clinton campaign is reacting to this.
 
Yeah, I saw it on CNN. It was some 50+% against and only 22% for accepting them. 11% only wanted Christians. Ridiculous.

Curious how the Clinton campaign is reacting to this.
They should probably axe the Roanoke Mayor from her VA leadership team, that's just said this:

CUHtxtoUAAA6-LU.png


Did not a Democrat to be the first to use the example of Japanese internment camps to justify banning refugees.
 

Cerium

Member
They should probably axe the Roanoke Mayor from her VA leadership team, that's just said this:

CUHtxtoUAAA6-LU.png


Did not a Democrat to be the first to use the example of Japanese internment camps to justify banning refugees.

Woooooow okay this needs to get some attention. Are there any articles on this?

Can't believe that's coming from a Democrat.
 
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who learned from history but took away the wrong lesson get to repeat it, because it was so awesome the first time, you know? Everyone knows that great presidents never make a single mistake. Next week, a Republican governor caught selling guns to Iran to fight ISIS justifies it with "but Reagan..."

Fucking A, politicians do some baffling shit.
 
"I am reminded that Franklin Delano Roosevelt felt it necessary to to sequester japanese in camps for the benefit of national security interes - the italian and germans? but they are white, we can't persecute them!"
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Silver still thinks Trump has less than a 10% chance of getting the nomination? LOL
 
As a young, salty Hillary fan in 2008, there was never a question that Obama was a Democrat. There is with Sanders. I volunteer with people who have been active in Dem politics since the 70s. There is no enthusiasm for supporting Sanders among this group, except this one lovely women who was hard core into McGovern. Sanders has often built his brand around being against the Democratic party, or at least free from it. I have to admit it takes a lot of brass to now want to pretend to get to lead it.

There have always been those dewy eyed young liberals. In 2008, though, they actually had an electable candidate, which makes all the difference. You can use that group to propel yourself into electoral successes, but, if you're a Democrat at least, you have to get the rest of us to fall in love and in line. Sanders hasn't shown an ounce of ability to do that.

I also read there's a new poll showing that a majority of Americans flat out refuse to vote for a Socialist. Full stop. Once I'm home, I'll try and find it. (It's a new one, not one of the old ones that say the same thing.) Of course, Bernie is going to give a speech about Democratic Socialism and ISIS this week. So, once we've all been properly Bernsplained, it'll all be good.
It's posts like this that make me even more determined not to vote for Hillary than I have been. You've put some fire back into me! Back to trying to convince my friends and family to vote third party if Bernie isn't the nominee! Every time I think about letting up on the gas, someone from the Hillary camp reminds me why she's a terrible thing for the Left.
 
It would be much better to have a President Rubio appoint 2-4 justices to the Supreme Court to reverse gay rights and anti-discrimination rulings, reduce access to reproductive rights, allow increased restriction of voting rights. With a republican controlled house, senate and White House that together can provide change you can believe in.
 
It's posts like this that make me even more determined not to vote for Hillary than I have been. You've put some fire back into me! Back to trying to convince my friends and family to vote third party if Bernie isn't the nominee! Every time I think about letting up on the gas, someone from the Hillary camp reminds me why she's a terrible thing for the Left.

I wonder what it's like being so far to the left that you'd actively campaign for the right to win the election just because your "progressive savior" fails to secure the nomination.

Must be nice being free from the consequences of a presidential election.
 

Cerium

Member
I wonder what it's like being so far to the left that you'd actively campaign for the right to win the election just because your "progressive savior" fails to secure the nomination.

Must be nice being free from the consequences of a presidential election.

Aren't Bernie fans statistically overwhelmingly white, middle class, privileged millennials?
 

NeoXChaos

Member
I wonder what it's like being so far to the left that you'd actively campaign for the right to win the election just because your "progressive savior" fails to secure the nomination.

Must be nice being free from the consequences of a presidential election.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171219481&postcount=481
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171570329&postcount=514
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171254207&postcount=490
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171438818&postcount=505
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171460414&postcount=509
 
I'm just curious what Rubio backers are thinking at this point. Even if Carson/Trump both dropped why is Rubio guaranteed to get those votes instead of Cruz?
I'm not really backing him per se. I think he's the most plausible candidate left to field in a general election, and ultimately wanting to win will win out. I'd have more confidence in Cruz if he wasn't utterly despised by basically all of his colleagues. And I'm not really ruling any candidate out nor saying they couldn't win any primaries.

It could be that the Republican electorate, having lost all rationality actually think Trump is a credible candidate to field in a general election I suppose.
 
It's posts like this that make me even more determined not to vote for Hillary than I have been. You've put some fire back into me! Back to trying to convince my friends and family to vote third party if Bernie isn't the nominee! Every time I think about letting up on the gas, someone from the Hillary camp reminds me why she's a terrible thing for the Left.

How does this remind you of anything about Hilary? It's all about Bernie.
 

User 406

Banned
Aren't Bernie fans statistically overwhelmingly white, middle class, privileged millennials?

Pretty much, they have no real skin in the game. Being able to just pout and fuck off an election is purely a privileged thing. Blacks, hispanics, women, and LGBT folk aren't so lucky.

But hey, when Obergefell gets overturned, the VRA gets gutted further, and Roe v Wade gets knocked off, I'm sure they'll be happy to remind everyone whose lives are ruined that none of that would have happened if Bernie was prez!
 
Aren't Bernie fans statistically overwhelmingly white, middle class, privileged millennials?

Most of them are always going on about money in politics being the most pressing problem of our age, which this primary season in the GOP camp has shown us to be demonstrably false, with many of the big moneyed candidates failing to secure any traction.

So yeah, that description feels about right, if that's the biggest problem with our democracy that you can muster. (even though it fits me, barring the white part.)
 

Cheebo

Banned
It's posts like this that make me even more determined not to vote for Hillary than I have been. You've put some fire back into me! Back to trying to convince my friends and family to vote third party if Bernie isn't the nominee! Every time I think about letting up on the gas, someone from the Hillary camp reminds me why she's a terrible thing for the Left.

You choose to help the Republicans to win...out of spite. You rather have gay rights curbed and restricted. Out of spite. You want African Americans to have policies put in place to hold them back discriminate against them. You want Latinos to be treated like second class citizens to kick out of this country. Out of spite. You want the millions who were able to have healthcare finally stripped away from them. Out of spite.

You choose your own petty selfishness over the quality of life and the ability to have a future for the less well off.

I feel bad for you, to be so petty and to only care about yourself must be a sad life.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
You want the Republicans to win...out of spite. You rather have gay rights curbed and restricted. Out of spite. You want African Americans to have policies put in place to hold them back discriminate against them. You want Latinos to be treated like second class citizens to kick out of this country. Out of spite. You want the millions who were able to have healthcare finally stripped away from them. Out of spite.

You choose your own petty selfishness over the quality of life and the ability to have a future for the less well off and our minorities.

I feel bad for you, to be so petty and to only care about yourself must be a sad life.

We already had a previous discussion with him a few months back. You don't remember? I have the links in the above post.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=170851070&postcount=401

I am not surprised. I just hope like in the previous discussion he changes his mind. We need his vote for Hillary in Wisconsin.
 
I wonder what it's like being so far to the left that you'd actively campaign for the right to win the election just because your "progressive savior" fails to secure the nomination.

Must be nice being free from the consequences of a presidential election.
Bernie isn't my 'progressive savior' - he's not nearly left enough for me, frankly.

It's always the same. It's always, "Geez, we HAVE to vote for the mediocre candidate because Republicans are so scary!"

Well...not this time.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
So I'm guessing we've already seen those horrendous polls from Florida and Colorado that show Hillary losing to nearly all Republicans?
 
You want the Republicans to win...out of spite. You rather have gay rights curbed and restricted. Out of spite. You want African Americans to have policies put in place to hold them back discriminate against them. You want Latinos to be treated like second class citizens to kick out of this country. Out of spite. You want the millions who were able to have healthcare finally stripped away from them. Out of spite.

You choose your own petty selfishness over the quality of life and the ability to have a future for the less well off and our minorities.

I feel bad for you, to be so petty and to only care about yourself must be a sad life.

I really feel that they must not actually support the progressive policies they purport to believe, placing Bernie's outsiderness over all else.

This becomes especially apparent when you hear people spout off the line that Bernie is the only politician they've ever liked, ignoring the other progressives in government (possibly due to said progressives actually being in the democratic party.) You never hear these same people talk of their admiration for Al Franken, or Sherrod Brown, or (formerly) Russ Feingold.

They ignore that a Clinton Nomination is likely what is needed to ensure the larger coattails necessary to allow more liberal members of the party can be elected.
 

Cheebo

Banned
We already had a previous discussion with him a few months back. You don't remember? I have the links in the above post.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=170851070&postcount=401

I am not surprised. I just hope like in the previous discussion he changes his mind. We need his vote for Hillary in Wisconsin. Heck he said he was going to vote for Feingold.
He is in a historically swing state? Wow. I cant imagine how selfish one has to be to willfully hand the White House to the Republicans in such a way while holding liberal views in a actual swing state. His vote legitimately matters and the thought of helping the GOP due to being angry about the primaries is beyond belief.
 
You choose to help the Republicans to win...out of spite. You rather have gay rights curbed and restricted. Out of spite. You want African Americans to have policies put in place to hold them back discriminate against them. You want Latinos to be treated like second class citizens to kick out of this country. Out of spite. You want the millions who were able to have healthcare finally stripped away from them. Out of spite.

You choose your own petty selfishness over the quality of life and the ability to have a future for the less well off.

I feel bad for you, to be so petty and to only care about yourself must be a sad life.
I want a real left and I won't vote for a Democrat that isn't part of the real left. Democrats wanna try 'Republican-lite' once again? Okay. Do that, but I want you to lose the left as punishment so that we can actually form some sort of identity outside the Democratic Party.
 
So I'm guessing we've already seen those horrendous polls from Florida and Colorado that show Hillary losing to nearly all Republicans?
Idk about Florida Atlantic University's track-record, but if the turnout models Quinnipiac has been using this cycle are correct, any Democrat running is going to be wiped out in a landslide.

Thankfully I think they've been releasing Republican-leaning polls to get headlines. Hillary and Sanders may be no Obama but it's hard to see a presidential electorate mirror 2014.
 

Cheebo

Banned
It's always the same. It's always, "Geez, we HAVE to vote for the mediocre candidate because Republicans are so scary!"

Well...not this time.
Yes, this time. Reality hasn't changed just because you don't like it.

Republicans are out to fuck the way of life of many of our worse off. And your are effectively advocating for the Republicans to win by protest voting in a swing state.
 

Cerium

Member
I want a real left and I won't vote for a Democrat that isn't part of the real left. Democrats wanna try 'Republican-lite' once again? Okay. Do that, but I want you to lose the left as punishment so that we can actually form some sort of identity outside the Democratic Party.

You might as well deport those 11 million Hispanics with your own hands.
 
I want a real left and I won't vote for a Democrat that isn't part of the real left. Democrats wanna try 'Republican-lite' once again? Okay. Do that, but I want you to lose the left as punishment so that we can actually form some sort of identity outside the Democratic Party.

Do you not realize how similar your rhetoric is to the tea-party? Unless you agree with their methods and only disagree with their ideology.

If that's your goal, why not participate in more local elections, vote for the more liberal candidate in state elections, etc. As long as you're not active in more than just presidential years, the democratic party will never adopt any of your ideals.

And this may shock you, but some of us support Clinton because we agree with her policies more than Bernie, not because she's some electable lesser of two evils.
 
It's posts like this that make me even more determined not to vote for Hillary than I have been. You've put some fire back into me! Back to trying to convince my friends and family to vote third party if Bernie isn't the nominee! Every time I think about letting up on the gas, someone from the Hillary camp reminds me why she's a terrible thing for the Left.

Look like minorities have to save the day again. Thank god for deep agent Trump's efforts to keep minority turnout high.
 

Cheebo

Banned
I want a real left and I won't vote for a Democrat that isn't part of the real left. Democrats wanna try 'Republican-lite' once again? Okay. Do that, but I want you to lose the left as punishment so that we can actually form some sort of identity outside the Democratic Party.
You aren't going to chance anything by trying to help the Republican nominee to win the White House. If the Dems lose they will shift further right. After the 3 losses from 1980 till 1988 we got the DLC democratic movement that resulted in more moderate Democrats. Democrats became more moderate.

Trying to cause Democrats to lose won't make them more liberal. It will make them think they have to be more centrist.

Your plan does not work to meet your goals, it literally goes against what you want.
 
He is in a historically swing state? Wow. I cant imagine how selfish one has to be to willfully hand the White House to the Republicans in such a way while holding liberal views in a actual swing state. His vote legitimately matters and the thought of helping the GOP due to being angry about the primaries is beyond belief.
I'm not angry about the primaries, I'm angry about the last 35 years. I'm not going to be a default democrat anymore. Bernie is passable. Hillary is not. If the Democratic Party won't back a left candidate, then they are not the party for me. Parties die...maybe it's time for the Democratic Party to die.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I think this Syria refugee issue is a really challenging one for Hillary. I think the downsides are so obvious and relatable for people and the upside is limited... I am interested to see how she handles this, if she responds at all prior to next debate or so.
 
You aren't going to chance anything by trying to help the Republican nominee to win the White House. If the Dems lose they will shift further right. After the 3 losses from 1980 till 1988 we got the DLC democratic movement that resulted in more moderate Democrats. Democrats became more moderate.

Trying to cause Democrats to lose won't make them more liberal. It will make them think they have to be more centrist.

Your plan does not work to meet your goals, it literally goes against what you want.
No, it HAS worked against the left - but 'going along' hasn't helped either. The left either needs its own Tea Party to terrorize candidates away from the center-right or they need to back/start another party.
 
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