• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

ivysaur12

Banned
RastaMentality said:
Is this accurate? Because if it is, the GOP effectively jumped on this (along with the general Syria-ISIS connection) for fear mongering.
Click to expand...

There was a fake Syrian passport near one of the suicide bombers and the fingerprints match those of someone who entered Europe on the rather porous entry point north of Greece.

It's unclear whether he actually came from Syria or who he is.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Sea Manky said:
Hillary fought pretty damn hard for universal health care back in the 90's and lost. It's also been pointed out over and over that she has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate.

Let's face it, both Hillary and Bill have had to be pragmatic about things, which is why a lot of stuff that's pretty odious now in hindsight got passed during his terms because the national mood was different. I was out of college and married when DADT was passed, and at the time it was pretty widely considered to be very progressive, because it actually allowed gay people to serve in the military, as long as they kept it on the dl. Not actively rooting them out and discharging them was considered progress back then. That's where the country's head was at at the time on gay rights.

I don't think there's any doubt that Hillary would like to move things leftward, and she's going to try to do so as far as the electorate will allow it. That her assessment of what the electorate will allow differs from other people doesn't change that. And with her experience in that regard, I tend to think she's closer to the mark than disgruntled leftists. Especially since all current polling evidence is making it glaringly obvious that at least half of our citizens are fucking psychotic bigots from hell. You gotta work with what you have.
Click to expand...

so why is polling 90+% for free college, minimum wage increase etc? lying to posters or respondents who don't vote being picked up?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Black Mamba said:
You want progress too quickly. That's the problem.

Ask for everything, get nothing. That's how you allow the GOP to win. That's how you get the Democrat Party to move right. How you get this country to move right.

You want this country to move left in a significant way? Be prepared to get into a long fight that will require winning every small battle you can, not expecting everything to go your way and when it doesn't try to burn it all down.

African Americans fought for centuries and are still fighting. Homosexuals. Minorities. Women. So many people are fighting for decades upon decades to get the change they want. Imagine if not winning over night they all said "fuck it, let the racists/sexists/xenophobes have their way then." Where would we be today if they threw in the towel because they had to compromise.

You think this country will be better off if the GOP wins? People like you thought that in 2000. All that led to was us moving to the right, us engaging in a fruitless war that has had worldwide repercussion. We moved right. We're only now moving left because Obama is in office. Slowly but surely. We will move back right if Hillary/Bernie don't win.

You think the Left will become more Left because the Right wins? No, that's not how it will work.

If you want progress, you need to understand how that comes about. And this whole notion of progress through losing is nonsensical.
Click to expand...
Yup. People argued 8 years of Bush would lead to a true liberal being elected and everything being good times. Well, that's not accurate, they argued 4 because lol Bush mirite except he managed to play the country well enough that he was re-elected. But in any case, that 8 years of Bush - who by all measures was a disaster of a president at worst, at best merely ineffective dealing with major crises that his and other presidents' policies may have directly contributed to - gave us 8 years of Obama, who's now considered disappointing. Yup, sorry, them's the breaks. You better believe the same thing would happen after eight years of Trump.

Notice I said eight. Bush demonstrated the American public (or at least the mushy middle that can decide elections) can't be trusted to throw out a buffoon. With everything that happened leading up to 2008, McCain-Palin still got 46% of the vote. Romney did better.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Firstly, I have no idea how what I said could have possibly made someone less/more likely to vote for anyone. But...okay.

I can't imagine being a position where I could afford to only worry about ideological purity. As a gay guy (who had the shit beat out of him more than once) I can't imagine the horror that a GOP President/Senate/House combo would lead to for me. I don't understand this need by some on the left to remind me how shit things have been and, in some cases, continue to be for people like me. We know. We get it. We live it. However, I think it's also fair to say we know how to celebrate the victories. The idea that we either have to get it all at once or burn this shit down is just...it's not how the world works. Progress doesn't happen because our convictions are pure. They happen when we change enough hearts and minds. That shit takes time. You just can't waive a magic wand and : poof : liberal utopia. You deal the cards you're dealt. You don't get to play Monopoly with Uno cards just because Monopoly is superior. You win at Uno, then you try to get enough people to play Monopoly with you.

Anyways....

I wish there was a previous Fox News NH poll. I want to see a previous data point using their methodology to see how things have changed in that race.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Black Republican said:
posted?

Fox News - NH 15-17

Trump 27
Rubio 13
Cruz 11
Carson 9
Bush 9
Kasich 7
Christie 6

Sanders 45%
Clinton 44%
Other Guy 5%

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/int...s-lead-respective-primaries-in-new-hampshire/
Click to expand...

There wasn't a previous poll of NH by Fox News, was there? I can't seem to find one, so I'm guessing not.

I think the Dem numbers are probably spot on. I think the race is tied there, which is good for my horse in the race. There's no way Hillary's up 21 or something like that Gravis poll showed.

I also like those Trump numbers. I'm half tempted to vote in the GOP primary instead of the Dem one. I want that Trump/Clinton ticket, but I also want to vote for Hillary as many times as I legally can.
 
M

Makai

Member
He's in third or fourth in the last three New Hampshire polls. The dip is real.

04MOBYP.png
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Quoting me in another thread with those NH numbers:

ivysaur12 said:
Absolutely.

If it Trump v. Carson v. Rubio v. Cruz, I think it gets interesting:

-- Iowa will be close, with Trump/Carson/Cruz all coming within points of each other.
-- New Hampshire will probably go to Trump.
-- South Carolina is Rubio's last stand. If he doesn't win here, he has no momentum. But this feels like if Carson is on the downswing, Trump will take it.
-- Trump probably would appeal the most to Nevada Republican caucus voters, especially since it's a closed caucus.

So where does that leave Rubio if he can't win any of those four states?
Click to expand...
 
S

SL128

Member
Makai said:
He's in third or fourth in the last three New Hampshire polls. The dip is real.

04MOBYP.png
Click to expand...
The first debate's loyalty pledge, so far, looks like it will be one of the best political moments of the year. Especially in light of how many people were freaking out about Walker possibly doing well right before.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
SL128 said:
The first debate's loyalty pledge, so far, looks like it will be one of the best political moments of the year. Especially in light of how many people were freaking out about Walker possibly doing well right before.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If Trump wins, Dems can tie any of the candidates in any future election to Trump's insanely racist rhetoric and policies or just attack the GOP as a failing party if the establishment candidates reneg on the pledge.

Win-win.
 
I

ivysaur12

Banned
Besides the fact that "Dannel" is a stupid name, this guy's a mensch:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/syrian-family-diverted-connecticut-indianas-request-35284421

A Syrian family that fled the war-torn country in 2011 was welcomed Wednesday to its new home of Connecticut after Indiana officials objected to plans for the refugees to resettle in their state.

The married couple and their 5-year-old son had been living as refugees in Jordan and been waiting three years to resettle in the United States. They were scheduled to arrive in Indianapolis Thursday but were diverted when Gov. Mike Pence ordered state agencies to halt resettlement activities after the deadly attacks in Paris.

Connecticut Gov. Dannel P. Malloy said he personally greeted the family upon their arrival Wednesday in New Haven.

"I have to say they were absolutely wonderful and charming folks," Malloy said at a news conference. "I told them that people in the United States are generous and good people but sometimes things happen elsewhere that cause people to forget about their generosity, forget about their native warmth and spirit."
Click to expand...
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Forgot to say this earlier, but just wanted to let you guys know that I'm black, gay, 33 years old, and I'm voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries.

Yes, people like me exist, so please stop telling me that I'm a twenty-something white male who isn't going to bother to actually vote. Furthermore, you do not speak for all minorities, so don't presume to pigeon hole all of us into your contrived narrative. It's insulting.

It's always amusing to me when people think they're in a position to speak for minorities, despite not having a fucking clue as to how we live our lives and what factors influence the decisions that we make.
 
Tarkus

Tarkus

Member
brainchild said:
Forgot to say this earlier, but just wanted to let you guys know that I'm black, gay, 33 years old, and I'm voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries.

Yes, people like me exist, so please stop telling me that I'm a twenty-something white male who isn't going to bother to actually vote. Furthermore, you do not speak for all minorities, so don't presume to pigeon hole all of us into your contrived narrative. It's insulting.

It's always amusing to me when people think they're in a position to speak for minorities, despite not having a fucking clue as to how we live our lives and what factors influence the decisions that we make.
Click to expand...
No. You're Neil
 
K

kess

Member
My area has large Syrian, Turkish, Lebanese, Dominican, and Indian communities and most people don't really give much thought to it (if they're aware of it). Keep in mind, that this is Pennsylvania where the governor has already made a decision in favor of accepting refugees, and even here the GOP is almost unanimously against it.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
brainchild said:
Forgot to say this earlier, but just wanted to let you guys know that I'm black, gay, 33 years old, and I'm voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries.

Yes, people like me exist, so please stop telling me that I'm a twenty-something white male who isn't going to bother to actually vote. Furthermore, you do not speak for all minorities, so don't presume to pigeon hole all of us into your contrived narrative. It's insulting.

It's always amusing to me when people think they're in a position to speak for minorities, despite not having a fucking clue as to how we live our lives and what factors influence the decisions that we make.
Click to expand...


shinra-bansho said:
When someone says no one wants a Vita, they don't literally mean there are zero people who want one.
Click to expand...

Might as well mean that.


Obviously no one literally thinks no black person is going to vote for Sanders, just that very little.
 
D

Diablos

Member
I am a bit surprised at the amount of cockiness I'm seeing from Dems on the refugee issue. Mayor Peduto here in Pittsburgh basically shrugged his shoulders and said "eh it's already happening anyway" like he isn't even worried about it. Now, I realize the right-wing is overreacting but it's also not very smart to just act like there is literally nothing to worry about in accepting refugees.

Meanwhile the GOP is taking such a hard line on this issue its ridiculous; you would have thought the US was attacked on Friday.

I really fucking hate this, it's freaking everyone out because of something that did not even happen here yet is forcing a mini-9/11 mindset regardless. This is absolutely toxic to our politics but it's one of those things that is so profound that if the majority of Americans are feeling a certain way about it, you as a politician sink or swim depending on how you respond to it.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
When someone says no one wants a Vita, they don't literally mean there are zero people who want one.
Click to expand...

We're not talking about a machine, we're talking about people. More importantly, we need to stop relying so much on age/race demographics as some kind of reference model in politics.

IMO, it's slightly dehumanizing to say that someone is supporting something or someone because of their age, race, gender, or sexual orientation. We are individuals with our own minds and intelligence and can use reasoning independent of those biological/social characteristics.

And I don't really care that it's common for people to do it. I'm voicing my opinion and I do not appreciate the generalization. Simple as that.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
Besides the fact that "Dannel" is a stupid name, this guy's a mensch:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/syrian-family-diverted-connecticut-indianas-request-35284421
Click to expand...

Jesus, Dannel really is a stupid name. It sounds like his parents just misspelled Daniel.

Makai said:
Are 20-something straight white males the minority in PoliGAF?
Click to expand...

I'm a twentysomething white male who looks half black or hispanic (depending on how much sun I've been getting) who is also Jewish.

FWIW.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Diablos said:
I am a bit surprised at the amount of cockiness I'm seeing from Dems on the refugee issue. Mayor Peduto here in Pittsburgh basically shrugged his shoulders and said "eh it's already happening anyway" like he isn't even worried about it. Now, I realize the right-wing is overreacting but it's also not very smart to just act like there is literally nothing to worry about in accepting refugees.

Meanwhile the GOP is taking such a hard line on this issue its ridiculous; you would have thought the US was attacked on Friday.

I really fucking hate this, it's freaking everyone out because of something that did not even happen here yet is forcing a mini-9/11 mindset regardless. This is absolutely toxic to our politics but it's one of those things that is so profound that if the majority of Americans are feeling a certain way about it, you as a politician sink or swim depending on how you respond to it.
Click to expand...

I would like some leadership from President Obama on this. I think this is a perfect situation in which he can and should address the nation. Clearly, this is a battle we have to win around the dinner table. We need to get people to understand why and how we have to do this. This isn't something he can address in a ten minute press conference from the Briefing Room. He needs to lay out his case to the nation. He needs to show why doing this is a moral obligation.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
brainchild said:
We're not talking about a machine, we're talking about people. More importantly, we need to stop relying so much on age/race demographics as some kind of reference model in politics.
Click to expand...

If there is one place why relying on age, race, and other demographics makes sense its politics.

You know what Nate Silver's impeccable data model is built off to build elections more than anything? Demographics. You know why we can easily know who will win 80% of the states in a given general election? Demographics.

You may not fit the norm but that is the entire point of demographics here, it is about the majority and trends. It is why we can use demographics to follow political trends and voting behavior. It is highly accurate on and vital to political analysis.

There are always outliers, it doesn't change the highly informative and useful gauge for the political prediction game.
 
M

Makai

Member
Diablos said:
I am a bit surprised at the amount of cockiness I'm seeing from Dems on the refugee issue. Mayor Peduto here in Pittsburgh basically shrugged his shoulders and said "eh it's already happening anyway" like he isn't even worried about it. Now, I realize the right-wing is overreacting but it's also not very smart to just act like there is literally nothing to worry about in accepting refugees.
Click to expand...
What's to worry about? Let 'em in! 10,000 is a joke when millions have fled their homes.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Cheebo said:
If there is one place why relying on age, race, and other demographics makes sense its politics.

You know what Nate Silver's impeccable data model is built off to build elections more than anything? Demographics.

You may not fit the norm but the vast majority do. It is why we can use demographics to follow political trends and voting behavior. It is highly accurate on and vital to political analysis.
Click to expand...


Demographics are useful in politics, but they do not give a person free license to make sweeping generalizations about a person based on their race, sex, age, and/or orientation. I find it disrespectful and inconsiderate.
 
S

SL128

Member
Makai said:
Are 20-something straight white males the minority in PoliGAF?
Click to expand...
I'm a straight white male, but two weeks from 20. I suppose at that point, I'll be obligated to start trashing Hillary while begging Bill to #feelthebern with me.
brainchild said:
Demographics are useful in politics, but they do not give a person free license to make sweeping generalizations about a person based on their race, sex, age, and/or orientation. I find it disrespectful and inconsiderate.
Click to expand...
As another way to say this for anyone unsure of what brainchild means: there's enough variation within groups that applying between-group information to individuals is not appropriate in most cases.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
brainchild said:
Demographics are useful in politics, but they do not give a person free license to make sweeping generalizations about a person based on their race, sex, age, and/or orientation. I find it disrespectful and inconsiderate.
Click to expand...


When certain demographics vote or poll overwhelmingly a certain way it makes sense. When people say Bernie is the candidate of white males its well, pretty damn accurate demographically speaking. Minorities and women overwhelmingly pick Hillary in primary polling.

It's not about being disrespectful, it is just stating facts. It may be a sweeping generalization but you can't deny it is not an accurate generalization.

Saying African Americans don't support Bernie is a generalization, but one based off of solid and consistent numbers. Just like saying Hispanics don't support Trump. Both based off the same sort of trends and numbers. I am sure there are some Hispanics behind Trump, but it is still an accurate generalization yes?
 
M

Makai

Member
Cheebo said:
When certain demographics vote or poll overwhelmingly a certain way it makes sense. When people say Bernie is the candidate of white males its well, pretty damn accurate demographically speaking. Minorities and women overwhelmingly pick Hillary in primary polling.

It's not about being disrespectful, it is just stating facts. It may be a sweeping generalization but you can't deny it is not an accurate generalization.
Click to expand...
gender.png
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
We're talking about products ultimately in either case. Bundles of features and attributes. Brands.

Besides, who's to say that the Butcher of Benghazi isn't a machine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
GAF Museum - The Greatest OTs of All Time (or at least, some of the great ones)
|OT|
4
2K
Komatsu replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
395 396 397 398 399
20K
2M
RDreamer replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
396 397 398 399 400
20K
2M
ShironRedshift replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why
393 394 395 396 397
20K
2M
Zaraki_Kenpachi replied
Top Bottom