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PoliGAF 2015 |OT2| Pls print
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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RustyNails
Member
All Bernie supporter posts read like babby's first election. Give them some time. They'll become jaded fucks like us soon.
brainchild
Banned
Daniel B·;186099263 said:My :") [post=185920193]reaction[/post] to Nina Turner's, Cleveland, Ohio rally speech (video link below), was not an exaggeration; by the end of the video I was blubbing, with abandon, and Bronx-Man's follow up "The political revolution is finally near" [post=185920532]post[/post] had me going again (the last time I did that, in a very long time, was that touching scene in St. Vincent, where the incorrigible Vincent character, played to perfection by Bill Murray, was proclaimed "Saint Vincent of sheeps Head Bay", by his new young friend, Oliver). If your immediate thought is, "Oh man, this lamb is so ripe for the slaughter, I have my mint sauce already open!"
I think the video invoked such a powerful reaction in me, because, although I believe in Bernie, our champion for all Americans, I wasn't entirely convinced that we could get our message through to enough people, especially when pitted against the billions of the 1% and the establishment controlled media, etc, etc.
For the record, although quite a few have said I still look in my twenties, and I may never lose my young outlook on life, I am actually a 45 year old straight white guy, and have followed politics, with great interest (shout out to Jon Snow (Ch4 News) and Jeremy Paxman (BBC Newsnight)), since my twenties, with the fall of Apartheid and the Berlin Wall being some of my greatest memories. The all nighter I pulled on the day New Labour booted the Conservatives out of office, was also a wonderful day, even if the euphoria didn't take long to wear off, after discovering that Blair and his master spin doctor, Alastair Campbell, were not a whole lot better than the Tory government. Wait a minute; can anyone see the parallels here, with Barack TPP (read Corporatist) Obama (more similarities, shortly)?
Despite being born in the UK, I've always held an American passport, as my Mom is from Massachusetts, and we visited my Grandparents a few times (RIP; my Gran lived to the grand old age of 103 and I have her framed card of "100th Birthday Congratulations" from President Obama and Michele, in pride of place, above my desk). I have always leaned towards American culture (primarily movies and TV) and my first computers were a Commodore Vic-20 and Atari 400. After retiring to Virginia in the fall of 07, I rediscovered politics, with Obama, having given up on them, with Blair's reign, and what does Obama go and do? In some regards, he does a remarkable impression of New Labour, and no one will ever be able to convince me that Hillary is not cut from the very same, corporate infused cloth.
So what has Obama been up to now? As I posted [post=183798149]previously[/post] (and I must say, I owe a debt of gratitude to Mike M, that led to my discovery of this; you have done your country a great service
Thanks to Reagan thoroughly fucking the FDA, with his immediate appointment of Dr. Arthur Hayes as commissioner, it has been decades since the agency has primarily looked out for the American people, and not the industries it is supposed to be regulating, and to give you one very straightforward example, the agency has known for many years of the dangers of Trans Fat, that it is not fit for human consumption, in any quantity, and yet, they have been moving at a snails pace, to withdraw their coveted GRAS status (a joke, at this stage), only recently doing so, whilst giving the industry a further three years to clean up their act (seeing the prevaling wind, some companies have gotten ahead of this).
And, if you think this corruption of our government agencies (funded with our tax dollars...) is restricted to the FDA, you would be sadly mistaken, as the "revolving door" is very much alive at, for example, the CDC, where, will you look at that, a day after the mandatory one year grace period (over industries they've been regulating), the previous head, Dr. Julie Gerberding, becomes the president of Merck's Vaccine division, one of the Worlds leading pharmaceutical corporations...
The time is now, for a long overdue overhaul in the way our democracy operates, and Bernie, with the support of the American people, can bring about that change, and to anyone who sais change can and should only happen gradually, you just have to look at America's history, to see that is patently false.
I really enjoy reading your posts, Daniel. I just wanted you to know that. You have at least one fan in this thread
Look right above this quote
I can't wait for Daniels first post when Bernie goes down in flames early next year. I really hope he doesn't just disappear.
Basileus777
Member
I was there once, and then the Dean scream happened.
Black Mamba
Member
Withdraw and we'll move even more conservative.
This is not true, nationally speaking. Taxes on the wealthy have gone up post-Reagan. minimum wage has risen, post-Reagan (not enough, granted but it has). We have had major healthcare reform post-Reagan that insures a lot more people, including the poor. Same Sex marriage is legal. Death Penalty for minors and mentally ill is gone and the DP has gone away or been put in moratorium in many places. Minorities are still fighting, but they're better off now than in 1988. We're not re-litigating birth control, but the abortion fight has never really moved...just Republicans are fighting it in different ways. We have a black President and about to have a female one. I could go on.
Again, I understand the frustration. But the strategy is working albeit at a slow pace. And there have been setbacks, but we push forward.
I don't see how anyone can think, nationally, this country is further to the right than it was in 1988. Obama has shifted the dynamics a bit the last 8 years.
But a big problem is that the concentration of left and right have changed recently. Republicans are taking control of mostly rural states and moving things back where they can while the left does the opposite in densely populated areas.
At the end of the day, your strategy will always fail because of that truth. The way our voting system works makes in impossible for your strategy to workunless you spread the left around. But the left is leaving Mississippi for New York City. What is your strategy to counter this? How will the left garner enough votes nationally when it's so concentrated densely?
You have no answer for the above. You're not going to convince rural Mississippians to turn hard left. It's a pipe dream. "liberal" is much more of a pejorative in this nation than "conservative," still.
You can either accept this and progress slowly or give up everything and lose catastrophically.
Falling in love with a politician as your personal savior to all your problems and woes in the world is a young mans game.
Every Bernie supporter will look back in 10 years and cringe. Just like us Dean types do now.
"You know your a 2010s kid when you remember you supported Bernie Sanders for a few months" and all that
Every Bernie supporter will look back in 10 years and cringe. Just like us Dean types do now.
"You know your a 2010s kid when you remember you supported Bernie Sanders for a few months" and all that
Black Mamba
Member
In better news, Alabama basically voted for medicaid expansion.
And La is probably getting it too.
So that's +2 in the South, though obviously Kentucky might be -1.
But this matters a lot. Maybe this means other places will move forward with it in the coming months and year.
Regarding Trump, holy shit at his Hitler idea. Like, at first it was funny...but that shit it just fucking scary...
And La is probably getting it too.
So that's +2 in the South, though obviously Kentucky might be -1.
But this matters a lot. Maybe this means other places will move forward with it in the coming months and year.
Regarding Trump, holy shit at his Hitler idea. Like, at first it was funny...but that shit it just fucking scary...
WayneMorse
Banned
Why doesn't Obama make a televised speech on Syrian refugee policy?
Mrs. Manky
Banned
Um, we've got a number of Sanders voters in this thread who are over 30, intend to support the nominee in the general regardless, and aren't buying into the silly political revolution/everyone else is a corporate shill/accelerationism garbage.
There's nothing wrong with supporting Sanders in the primary. He's good people.
Yellowtail
Member
I'd love Dean as Hillary's VP. I doubt it's a viable option though.
Because it would make things worse. Presidential speeches polarize issues. Whenever Obama actually wants to make policy on a topic, he avoids talking too much about it for exactly this reason.
That said, it might be worth doing to try to get Democrats back onside, since the House passed a bill to effectively limit Syrian refugee acceptance. It's pretty important that the Senate not also pass it with a veto-proof majority.
The problem is that it's also not really a topic on which Obama wants the government to shut down on. I'm pretty worried right now that we are going to end up cutting off support for Syrian refugees for no good reason.
There's no 06 and 08 without Howard Dean and Kerry probably wouldn't have gotten as nearly as close to beating Bush as he did. Also it's questionable as to whether Obama could have won the Illinois Democratic Senate Primary without the backing of Dean for Illinois (which was probably Dean's strongest state organization).
I hope you can say the same thing about Sanders and his supports after 2020.
Basileus777
Member
There's nothing to be ashamed about when it comes to Dean. The guy did a ton for the Democratic Party.
He might not want to put the Dems running in a tough spot. Election years change the calculus on what should be obvious shit.
Or he could think that what we're seeing now is just a passing phase due to fear and that when a few weeks go by without an attack in the US everything will go back to normal.
That was an enlightening post, keep digging.
Retromelon
Member
seeing a lot of condescension towards the sanders voters here. it ain't right I tell you hwhat. I don't lounge around making vince foster jokes all day
it's not their fault that they actually have an inspiring candidate to rally around, instead of grouchily badmouthing others for their "naivete" and being in their "twenties"
tldr cease the hostilities ye jaded hilldawgs
like some people
tldr cease the hostilities ye jaded hilldawgs
Aaron Strife
Banned
Don't know if Bevin will actually get off Medicaid fully. There might be some sort of adjustment but it seems like a really dumb idea and he's been backing down from it in public statements.
ErasureAcer
Banned
It's best not to come into PoliGAF and if you do to put a lot of people on ignore.
That breeds hostility, especially if you can't accept there are people who might possibilty have a different opinion or candidate of choice.
Well, let's be fair: it's hardly just one side. A lot of Bernie supporters on GAF are incredibly condescending when it comes to people who don't agree with them. "Oh, you don't know him well enough. He's the only real choice. As soon as everyone knows him they'll love him. He's right about everything. There's no reason for anyone not to support him," and so on. Just go look in that thread about his speech today.
Neither side is innocent in this, let's be real.
Jack Remington
Banned
This. Net neutrality was a technical debate mostly centered on tech-based websites like ArsTechnica and the like. Then Obama gave an opinion on it, and suddenly the Wall Street Journal (among others) ran like 10 fact-free op-eds convincing their readers that it was some Orwellian nightmare shit. Now it's basically a point of truth for conservatives that Obama destroyed the free internet and that throttling and paid prioritization were made-up issues.
RastaMentality
Banned
Black, gay, 18 year old here who's actually excited to vote for Hillz come next year.
Yep. I am 100% positive the like of Las, Brainchild, Daniel, etc will be behind Hillary much as we are come the convention.
Poodlestrike
Banned
What a post to come back on.
brainchild
Banned
Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell.
If Hillary gets the nomination, I will support her 100%. I've said this many times in this very thread. In fact, I said this in my very first post in this thread.
curlyfriski
Banned
How can you not be inspired by a candidate with the courage to take bold actions like telling Wall Street to cut it out or proposing a bill to protect our poor defenseless flags?
No I am completely serious
Retromelon
Member
campfireweekend
Member
Hillary is currently the only one proposing legislation that actually deals with what caused much of the problems leading to the great recession, such as her proposed limitations on shadow banking.
Sanders instead has focused largely on liberal red meat, like breaking up the big banks by reinstating glass-steagal, when it wasn't even the coalescing commercial and investment banks that caused the crisis. It was almost entirely the investment banks.
I don't understand why people state that Sanders doesn't pander, because he clearly does.
well not everyone. I can think of a few who won't.
I left out certain names purposely.
shinra-bansho
Member
Doesn't matter. When Michael Bay reveals the true story of Benghazi, she's going to get decimated. Then President Trump will enact far-reaching sweeping changes that will lead to the self-destruction of the capitalist oligarchy.
Well, that's good since it would so far as I'm aware be illegal.
Bernie Sanders drops line attacking super PACs from speech after super PAC backs him.
So much for ideological purity. He's one of us now, Bernie fans.
So much for ideological purity. He's one of us now, Bernie fans.
I mean, the reality is we're intensely hostile to people who support Sanders right now, and I think it's not particularly productive. Have the conversation on the merits, not on personalities.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Would love to see this as a thread on the OT.
Make one! I would if I could.
ErasureAcer
Banned
There are some people who talk issues/news in here. There are a handful of frequent posters who are just looking to start a fight with anyone who supports Bernie Sanders or any left leaning politician from the past.
I don't need to be bullied by some wanks on the internet for believing what I believe. Putting people on ignore lessens the hostility!
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't really see the controversy tbh, it's not an officially affiliated SuperPAC, so he's remaining consistent with his stance. But I don't know if it's why he's specifically dropped it from his speech, or if it's even permanently dropped as a critique. I don't expect it to be.
Politico just needs stuff to write about.
Politico just needs stuff to write about.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
To survive the primary, Rubio is going to have to act like he's a Nazi. Escalation.
I though you knew there were several Super Pacs running for Sanders without his consent or knowledge. I'd be a bit more interested in what he has to say on the matter than what politico seems to insinuate - I'm sure he would be asked very soon, so I don't know why you need to get zealous about it. If he is changing the tune because this is Union Super Pac than that obviously is an issue for me.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Accuse people of picking fights
Comes in here and blames PoliGAF for Jack Conway losing
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