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PoliGAF 2016 |OT11| Well this is exciting

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W

Wilsongt

Member
Kasich's advisor actually fired back at Subeirp Ecneir.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/kasich-priebus-trump-228343

"Thankfully, there are still leaders in this country who put principles before politics," said John Weaver, Kasich's adviser, adding, "The idea of a greater purpose beyond oneself may be alien to political party bosses like Reince Priebus, but it is at the center of everything Governor Kasich does."

Weaver derided Priebus as "a Kenosha political operative," referring to Priebus's Wisconsin home, and said the three-term Republican National Committee leader should be thanking Kasich for "an inclusive, conservative vision that can actually win a national election."

"The Governor is traveling the nation supporting down ballot Republicans and preventing a potential national wipeout from occurring on Reince's watch," Weaver said.
Click to expand...
 
N

nature boy

Member
Byron YorkVerified account
‏@ByronYork
On Fox, Trump: 'I beat Kasich so badly it was unbelievable…The only reason he's not on board is that he got beaten so badly.'

Byron York ‏@ByronYork 19m19 minutes ago
On Fox, Trump on Kasich, GOPers who don't support: 'I really don't care. That's not up to me...They signed a very, very strong pledge.'
Click to expand...

.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
I am still gobsmacked at the lack of positive ads from HRC camp.

Want to motivate the Obama coalition? Where are the ads about Obamacare (Trump has promised to get rid of it), Affordable College, Dodd-Frank law. I remember Obama started out 2012 with Obamacare ads even though the pundits felt it was a loser.

If you think about how much Hispanics and African Americans have benefited from Obamacare, having ads about it with your pledge to protect and expand it vs. Trump's thread to repeal it is powerful.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
How does she go where dumb millennials are? Should she do a yardie with them at a toga party while getting blazed on some dank dank weed and whining about things.
 
M

Maledict

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Best in the business really. And I wish Enten would take over 538
Click to expand...

My issue with Enten is that he can occasionally come across as incredibly self-entitled. Him and Claire Malone are bad together - it really re-inforces a very bad "both sides are equally shit" rhetoric that comes out of 538 on occasion. I got *really* annoyed when they were both demanding 100% transparency and accuracy on health records for candidates, without any thought or the consequences of that. 1in 4 people at some point in their lives suffer a mental health illness, and in the current media climate you've just made it impossible for someone to ever run for president if that's revealed.

People's medical records should be private. The press doesn't need access to every detail over their entire lives. They need to know whether the candidate is fit and able now, not whether they got depression 20 years ago.

You don't get access to every piece of data ever about a candidate.
 
N

noshten

Member
PBY said:
?

I like a lot of what she does, she's always been my candidate. I also think she's really bad at reaching out to millennials
Click to expand...

Well she spends entire month of August fundraising with rich white people. Most of the messaging since the convention have been trying to win "conservative NeverTrumps". Instead of trying to disavow any sort of neocon endorsement her campaign actually played them up.
It's not exactly surprising that she lost support among younger people. Instead of trying to address her problems from the primary her campaign decided to either ignore them or even magnify them.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Maledict said:
Okay, I know this thread moves really fast, but I swear thats the first time I've seen it go from boyfriend to fiancé! Congrats!
Click to expand...
Thank you. We got engaged on September 11th, which, in retrospect......you know. Maybe not the best day. I didn't think about that until a few days ago. Whatever. I mean, this way neither of us will ever forget our engagement anniversary. It'd be unamerican.
shinra-bansho said:
How does she go where dumb millennials are? Should she do a yardie with them at a toga party while getting blazed on some dank dank weed and whining about things.
Click to expand...
What do young millennials like? Bowling? Roller rinks? Scratch and sniff stickers? I mean, she could go down to the disco and play some sickly musical beats for the children. They would like that. And also, something about Cabbage Patch kids? idk.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
This is a good first step to at least trying to address that issue. May not work but it seems like some of y'all act like she shouldn't even try.

It may not work but the policy and messaging will be heard by many. It's positive etc.

And I see Trump at the moment is focused on Kasich.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Las7 said:
Well she spends entire month of August fundraising with rich white people. Most of the messaging since the convention have been trying to win "conservative NeverTrumps". Instead of trying to disavow any sort of neocon endorsement her campaign actually played them up.
It's not exactly surprising that she lost support among younger people. Instead of trying to address her problems from the primary her campaign decided to either ignore them or even magnify them.
Click to expand...

This continues to be a complaint about appearance rather than reality: everyone acknowledges she needs rich white people's money to help run a campaign that will turn out everyone else throughout the rest of the cycle! She did it all upfront. She happened to do half of it while trump was having the biggest public meltdown in history and the rest while he wasn't. If young people really start to doubt the cause and the importance of things because Hillary stops paying attention to them for 3 weeks, I think we actually do have some challenges there.

I don't understand why this particular demographic is so much more skeptical than every other demographic. It's people who are slightly older who have lived through 30 years of Clinton bashing and have reason to think she's dirty. Milennials are much harder to read to me in this regard. Is it a universal skepticism about "the process"? At least that I would understand.

I think it's pretty whatever to suggest most of her messaging has been about nevertrumps but like Hillary I have to spend my time now with rich white people so whatever.

edit: some of this is frustration obviously but there is a genuine element of mystery here. What was so much more appealing about Obama? He and Hillary are two peas in a pod.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
adam387 said:
Thank you. We got engaged on September 11th, which, in retrospect......you know. Maybe not the best day. I didn't think about that until a few days ago. Whatever. I mean, this way neither of us will ever forget our engagement anniversary. It'd be unamerican.

What do young millennials like? Bowling? Roller rinks? Scratch and sniff stickers? I mean, she could go down to the disco and play some sickly musical beats for the children. They would like that. And also, something about Cabbage Patch kids? idk.
Click to expand...

I have no idea, either. I was never the typical teen/millenial. I was the early 2000s teen/early 20s who spent their life on the interwebs before Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, etc.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Wilsongt said:
I have no idea, either. I was never the typical teen/millenial. I was the early 2000s teen/early 20s who spent their life on the interwebs before Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, etc.
Click to expand...
We're basically the same age, aren't we? Because that was my teens as well. MSN Messenger, Harry Potter websites, video games.....pretty great tbh.

I read through Hillary's op ed. If that's not quote unquote enough policy for these people, there's no winning them. Seriously. There are the issues they claim to care about. Unless, of course, the issue is they just don't like Hillary. At which point, just say that, so we can just ignore you and focus on the people who actually are winnable.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
adam387 said:
We're basically the same age, aren't we? Because that was my teens as well. MSN Messenger, Harry Potter websites, video games.....pretty great tbh.

I read through Hillary's op ed. If that's not quote unquote enough policy for these people, there's no winning them. Seriously. There are the issues they claim to care about. Unless, of course, the issue is they just don't like Hillary. At which point, just say that, so we can just ignore you and focus on the people who actually are winnable.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying. There is policy there. There is a message there. She's putting the foot forward. But that message can still hit with the majority of Americans.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
FloydtheFathead said:
My name is Floyd.. Is this where the B.A meetings are held?
Click to expand...
Hello Floyd.

Let us say the BA Prayer

Harambe grant me the fortitude to accept the polls I cannot change, the courage to change the margins that I can, and the OMG EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE FUCK WHAT IS HAPPENING OMG 10,000 years of darkness. FUCK!
 
G

gamechanger87

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
I am still gobsmacked at the lack of positive ads from HRC camp.

Want to motivate the Obama coalition? Where are the ads about Obamacare (Trump has promised to get rid of it), Affordable College, Dodd-Frank law. I remember Obama started out 2012 with Obamacare ads even though the pundits felt it was a loser.

If you think about how much Hispanics and African Americans have benefited from Obamacare, having ads about it with your pledge to protect and expand it vs. Trump's thread to repeal it is powerful.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine she even steps towards Obamacare. Obamacare is dying on the vine from carriers dropping it because it is full of old and sick people and not enough young people to offset the costs. Obama held an emergency meeting with the largest carriers last week to plead with them to not drop out and help him fix it. If you are already at that point in the death spiral it's already dead.
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
I am still gobsmacked at the lack of positive ads from HRC camp.

Want to motivate the Obama coalition? Where are the ads about Obamacare (Trump has promised to get rid of it), Affordable College, Dodd-Frank law. I remember Obama started out 2012 with Obamacare ads even though the pundits felt it was a loser.

If you think about how much Hispanics and African Americans have benefited from Obamacare, having ads about it with your pledge to protect and expand it vs. Trump's thread to repeal it is powerful.
Click to expand...

1. Obamacare isn't popular.
2. Affordable college would be a good line to go down.
3. No one knows what Dodd-Frank is.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
adam387 said:
We're basically the same age, aren't we? Because that was my teens as well. MSN Messenger, Harry Potter websites, video games.....pretty great tbh.

I read through Hillary's op ed. If that's not quote unquote enough policy for these people, there's no winning them. Seriously. There are the issues they claim to care about. Unless, of course, the issue is they just don't like Hillary. At which point, just say that, so we can just ignore you and focus on the people who actually are winnable.
Click to expand...

Yep. I used MSN, AIM, Yahoo, and Yahoo! rp chats.

Those were the days.

Just heard a clip of Obama's speech this weekend.

godDAMN.

I wish he could give that speech to millenials. :(
 
P

Paskil

Member
I know a good taxidermist for Hillary when she succumbs to her fatal cough. If we get the right pose, even her favorables should go up!
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Paskil said:
I know a good taxidermist for Hillary when she succumbs to her fatal cough. If we get the right pose, even her favorables should go up!
Click to expand...

Can always pose her like this:

Lil'_Pound_Cake.jpg
 
N

noshten

Member
Y2Kev said:
This continues to be a complaint about appearance rather than reality: everyone acknowledges she needs rich white people's money to help run a campaign that will turn out everyone else throughout the rest of the cycle! She did it all upfront. She happened to do half of it while trump was having the biggest public meltdown in history and the rest while he wasn't. If young people really start to doubt the cause and the importance of things because Hillary stops paying attention to them for 3 weeks, I think we actually do have some challenges there.

I don't understand why this particular demographic is so much more skeptical than every other demographic. It's people who are slightly older who have lived through 30 years of Clinton bashing and have reason to think she's dirty. Milennials are much harder to read to me in this regard. Is it a universal skepticism about "the process"? At least that I would understand.

I think it's pretty whatever to suggest most of her messaging has been about nevertrumps but like Hillary I have to spend my time now with rich white people so whatever.

edit: some of this is frustration obviously but there is a genuine element of mystery here. What was so much more appealing about Obama? He and Hillary are two peas in a pod.
Click to expand...

Her embrace of Sanders during the convention needed to be far more pronounced. Her campaign should have been far more aggressive in messaging all the concessions they made to Sanders - instead of trying to limit the concessions or downplaying them. Her VP choice was more about cementing her as the right choice for people who had already decided on Clinton as the nominee - it didn't really appeal or lead to enthusiasm to people outside of her base. Her platform is basically Obama with bandages instead of Obama on steroids, young people are facing real challenges and the future doesn't provide an optimistic outlook for them. Saying you're are going to remove barriers without acknowledging wealth disparity is growing and upward mobility is nearly non-existent for majority of people is just showing the lack of insight. She cannot continue to think that the Obama legacy or that her being better than Trump is enough to get young people to the booth.

As a whole her campaign took a lot of things for granted and are seeing the consequences. The fact that people continue to deny her weakness as a candidate are puzzling. I don't see how there is a mystery of why she is not appealing like Obama. As a candidate Obama was able to seem authentic, didn't have to constantly defend his lack of transparency, didn't have the deck stacked in his favor and his campaign especially in the primary was an underdog story - where he was able to make monumental gains and captured the hopes and dreams of a whole generation. Lets not even get into the fact that Obama was coming on the tail end of 8 years of Bush thus enthusiasm among people voting for him was also magnified by the need to replace a disaster and not allow another disaster into the White House. Obama is still appealing to young voters, but I think the majority think the DNC and democrats failed him - they expected more out of the presidency and the crushing victory he achieved over McCain. Now they see the next nominee campaign on incremental improvements of programs Obama started but what people really want is massive gains.

Both you and I realize that her policies would never get through Congress unless both houses were controlled by Dems. So I though she should have been bold with her proposals and made a point of pandering to young voters a lot more during and after the convention.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Las7 said:
Her embrace of Sanders during the convention needed to be far more pronounced. Her campaign should have been far more aggressive in messaging all the concessions they made to Sanders - instead of trying to limit the concessions or downplaying them. Her VP choice was more about cementing her as the right choice for people who had already decided on Clinton as the nominee - it didn't really appeal or lead to enthusiasm to people outside of her base. Her platform is basically Obama with bandages instead of Obama on steroids, young people are facing real challenges and the future doesn't provide an optimistic outlook for them. Saying you're are going to remove barriers without acknowledging wealth disparity is growing and upward mobility is nearly non-existent for majority of people is just showing the lack of insight. She cannot continue to think that the Obama legacy or that her being better than Trump is enough to get young people to the booth.

As a whole her campaign took a lot of things for granted and are seeing the consequences. The fact that people continue to deny her weakness as a candidate are puzzling. I don't see how there is a mystery of why she is not appealing like Obama. As a candidate Obama was able to seem authentic, didn't have to constantly defend his lack of transparency, didn't have the deck stacked in his favor and his campaign especially in the primary was an underdog story - where he was able to make monumental gains and captured the hopes and dreams of a whole generation. Lets not even get into the fact that Obama was coming on the tail end of 8 years of Bush thus enthusiasm among people voting for him was also magnified by the need to replace a disaster and not allow another disaster into the White House. Obama is still appealing to young voters, but I think the majority think the DNC and democrats failed him - they expected more out of the presidency and the crushing victory he achieved over McCain. Now they see the next nominee campaign on incremental improvements of programs Obama started but what people really want is massive gains.

Both you and I realize that her policies would never get through Congress unless both houses were controlled by Dems. So I though she should have been bold with her proposals and made a point of pandering to young voters a lot more during and after the convention.
Click to expand...
Cosign all of this, but I've always been pro millenials
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Las7 said:
Her embrace of Sanders during the convention needed to be far more pronounced. Her campaign should have been far more aggressive in messaging all the concessions they made to Sanders - instead of trying to limit the concessions or downplaying them. Her VP choice was more about cementing her as the right choice for people who had already decided on Clinton as the nominee - it didn't really appeal or lead to enthusiasm to people outside of her base. Her platform is basically Obama with bandages instead of Obama on steroids, young people are facing real challenges and the future doesn't provide an optimistic outlook for them. Saying you're are going to remove barriers without acknowledging wealth disparity is growing and upward mobility is nearly non-existent for majority of people is just showing the lack of insight. She cannot continue to think that the Obama legacy or that her being better than Trump is enough to get young people to the booth.

As a whole her campaign took a lot of things for granted and are seeing the consequences. The fact that people continue to deny her weakness as a candidate are puzzling. I don't see how there is a mystery of why she is not appealing like Obama. As a candidate Obama was able to seem authentic, didn't have to constantly defend his lack of transparency, didn't have the deck stacked in his favor and his campaign especially in the primary was an underdog story - where he was able to make monumental gains and captured the hopes and dreams of a whole generation. Lets not even get into the fact that Obama was coming on the tail end of 8 years of Bush thus enthusiasm among people voting for him was also magnified by the need to replace a disaster and not allow another disaster into the White House. Obama is still appealing to young voters, but I think the majority think the DNC and democrats failed him - they expected more out of the presidency and the crushing victory he achieved over McCain. Now they see the next nominee campaign on incremental improvements of programs Obama started but what people really want is massive gains.

Both you and I realize that her policies would never get through Congress unless both houses were controlled by Dems. So I though she should have been bold with her proposals and made a point of pandering to young voters a lot more during and after the convention.
Click to expand...

I'ma stop you after the first sentence. Bernie lost. He was given way, way more input in things than he was entitled to. Sorry, not sorry, this is t. It is not reasonable, logical or electorally significant to say that Hillary's path to victory is ignoring her policy platforms and promoting Bernie's. Had Bernie won, his ideas and positions would have been the ones we ran on 100%.

These people are not children that need their hands held so they get everything they want. These are adults, who live in the world that actually exists. And they need to take an iota of responsibility for the future of the nation. They are not special snowflakes. They, like millions of other people before them, supported a candidate who lost. Now, is the time to, you know, move on? I guess?

Your whole argument is "Promise the moon because who cares!?" The fact that we're still dealing with people who actually thought Bernie would have done one half of one percent of his pie in the sky stuff is a textbook example of why you don't offer things you know you cannot deliver on. The fact that some (some, small number, not a lot, a few, a handful, opposite a plethora) are unable or unwilling to move on....I don't have the energy or time for them anymore. They lost my goodwill when they started chanting NO TPP over a damn civil rights icon.

Hillary is the Democratic nominee. She is the rightfully selected nominee who won fair and square within the rules. She extended a giant olive branch to her opponent and his allies. Her opponent is on board with her, and has managed to move the overall discussion to the left. The fact that some Busters didn't get their VP choice, their verbatim policy positions in a document no one reads, or the curtain patterns they wanted.....I'm sorry, but we just don't have time for this anymore. They need tough love, and I hope Bernie is the one to give it to them.
 
E

Emarv

Member
Cohn's write ups are great as usual, and the NYT's graphs are the most aesthetically pleasing of all the data sites.
 
K

KingK

Member
Las7 said:
Her embrace of Sanders during the convention needed to be far more pronounced. Her campaign should have been far more aggressive in messaging all the concessions they made to Sanders - instead of trying to limit the concessions or downplaying them. Her VP choice was more about cementing her as the right choice for people who had already decided on Clinton as the nominee - it didn't really appeal or lead to enthusiasm to people outside of her base. Her platform is basically Obama with bandages instead of Obama on steroids, young people are facing real challenges and the future doesn't provide an optimistic outlook for them. Saying you're are going to remove barriers without acknowledging wealth disparity is growing and upward mobility is nearly non-existent for majority of people is just showing the lack of insight. She cannot continue to think that the Obama legacy or that her being better than Trump is enough to get young people to the booth.

As a whole her campaign took a lot of things for granted and are seeing the consequences. The fact that people continue to deny her weakness as a candidate are puzzling. I don't see how there is a mystery of why she is not appealing like Obama. As a candidate Obama was able to seem authentic, didn't have to constantly defend his lack of transparency, didn't have the deck stacked in his favor and his campaign especially in the primary was an underdog story - where he was able to make monumental gains and captured the hopes and dreams of a whole generation. Lets not even get into the fact that Obama was coming on the tail end of 8 years of Bush thus enthusiasm among people voting for him was also magnified by the need to replace a disaster and not allow another disaster into the White House. Obama is still appealing to young voters, but I think the majority think the DNC and democrats failed him - they expected more out of the presidency and the crushing victory he achieved over McCain. Now they see the next nominee campaign on incremental improvements of programs Obama started but what people really want is massive gains.

Both you and I realize that her policies would never get through Congress unless both houses were controlled by Dems. So I though she should have been bold with her proposals and made a point of pandering to young voters a lot more during and after the convention.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd also say that her Iraq war vote is still a pretty big issue. The failure and lies about Iraq were a lot of millennials' first exposure to politics as teenagers/young adults, and she's tainted by that.

Edit: Adam, I'm sorry but that's bullshit. If she should only propose things she could deliver on, then she would only be proposing executive orders. None of her legislative platform is being passed by a republican house regardless. I don't see any problem with proposing so called "pie in the sky" policies and then settling for the closest thing you can get. It gives people an ultimate goal/aspiration to fight for that excites them more than preemptive compromise.
 
P

PBY

Banned
adam387 said:
I'ma stop you after the first sentence. Bernie lost. He was given way, way more input in things than he was entitled to. Sorry, not sorry, this is t. It is not reasonable, logical or electorally significant to say that Hillary's path to victory is ignoring her policy platforms and promoting Bernie's. Had Bernie won, his ideas and positions would have been the ones we ran on 100%.

These people are not children that need their hands held so they get everything they want. These are adults, who live in the world that actually exists. And they need to take an iota of responsibility for the future of the nation. They are not special snowflakes. They, like millions of other people before them, supported a candidate who lost. Now, is the time to, you know, move on? I guess?

Your whole argument is "Promise the moon because who cares!?" The fact that we're still dealing with people who actually thought Bernie would have done one half of one percent of his pie in the sky stuff is a textbook example of why you don't offer things you know you cannot deliver on. The fact that some (some, small number, not a lot, a few, a handful, opposite a plethora) are unable or unwilling to move on....I don't have the energy or time for them anymore. They lost my goodwill when they started chanting NO TPP over a damn civil rights icon.

Hillary is the Democratic nominee. She is the rightfully selected nominee who won fair and square within the rules. She extended a giant olive branch to her opponent and his allies. Her opponent is on board with her, and has managed to move the overall discussion to the left. The fact that some Busters didn't get their VP choice, their verbatim policy positions in a document no one reads, or the curtain patterns they wanted.....I'm sorry, but we just don't have time for this anymore. They need tough love, and I hope Bernie is the one to give it to them.
Click to expand...
Also agree with this.

You can't be surprised that this leads to an enthusiasm gap though - "lesser of two evils that doesn't track my political leanings" isn't a motivating force. I know the alternative is cataclysmic, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Free weed hill. Do it.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
And also, Hillary has been promoting her agenda. There are a lot of examples of this, including in ads that I have seen with my own eyeballs. She's been pushing her agenda in places where millennials happen to be, such as Twitters and Facebooks and Google Hangouts and ICQ and Yahoo Messenger.

She has given quite a few policy speeches as well. She cannot drag millennials by the eyeballs to watch her speeches constantly until they hear something that makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. Believe me! I'm sure she's checked on this. If she could, she would.

And, you know, when your opponent is a white nationalist who is, literally, in opposition to everything this cohort of voters pretends to care about (but probably only does because it's the cool thing to do maybe?) then "I'm not this trash" is a good strategy. Because, at the end of the day, young people don't vote. They never vote. They just had a candidate who was offering them everything they wanted, and they still didn't vote.

You do not chase after these people at the expense of another group of voters. It never, ever, ever in a million, billion, trillion years works. What some (again, some not all, not a lot, a few, a tiny number, no one here at this moment in space time) need to realize is that, unfortunately, the political world does not revolve around the dankest memes and weed legalization.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
Las7 said:
Her embrace of Sanders during the convention needed to be far more pronounced. Her campaign should have been far more aggressive in messaging all the concessions they made to Sanders - instead of trying to limit the concessions or downplaying them. Her VP choice was more about cementing her as the right choice for people who had already decided on Clinton as the nominee - it didn't really appeal or lead to enthusiasm to people outside of her base. Her platform is basically Obama with bandages instead of Obama on steroids, young people are facing real challenges and the future doesn't provide an optimistic outlook for them. Saying you're are going to remove barriers without acknowledging wealth disparity is growing and upward mobility is nearly non-existent for majority of people is just showing the lack of insight. She cannot continue to think that the Obama legacy or that her being better than Trump is enough to get young people to the booth.

As a whole her campaign took a lot of things for granted and are seeing the consequences. The fact that people continue to deny her weakness as a candidate are puzzling. I don't see how there is a mystery of why she is not appealing like Obama. As a candidate Obama was able to seem authentic, didn't have to constantly defend his lack of transparency, didn't have the deck stacked in his favor and his campaign especially in the primary was an underdog story - where he was able to make monumental gains and captured the hopes and dreams of a whole generation. Lets not even get into the fact that Obama was coming on the tail end of 8 years of Bush thus enthusiasm among people voting for him was also magnified by the need to replace a disaster and not allow another disaster into the White House. Obama is still appealing to young voters, but I think the majority think the DNC and democrats failed him - they expected more out of the presidency and the crushing victory he achieved over McCain. Now they see the next nominee campaign on incremental improvements of programs Obama started but what people really want is massive gains.

Both you and I realize that her policies would never get through Congress unless both houses were controlled by Dems. So I though she should have been bold with her proposals and made a point of pandering to young voters a lot more during and after the convention.
Click to expand...

She could do all this and I'm pretty sure most of the remaining millennial holdouts would just say she doesn't mean any of it and will go against all of it when she's in office.

I talk with people like this daily. Nothing Hillary could have possibly done after the primary would get these voters into the fold. These people live in a reality where they don't trust a single thing she says or does.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Weed support would be the most transparent and blatant pandering I've ever seen. Nobody is going to be stupid enough to believe Hillary did an about face on weed just coincidentally as her numbers with millennials started slipping.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
PBY said:
I also think that the snyde attitude towards millenials doesn't help.
Click to expand...

That's our attitude not hers soooo... fuck it, frankly.

A lot of us are just sick of it. I know I am. It's frankly exhausting having to have the same few fights over and over with the same cast of characters here so fuck it.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Las7 said:
Her embrace of Sanders during the convention needed to be far more pronounced. Her campaign should have been far more aggressive in messaging all the concessions they made to Sanders - instead of trying to limit the concessions or downplaying them. Her VP choice was more about cementing her as the right choice for people who had already decided on Clinton as the nominee - it didn't really appeal or lead to enthusiasm to people outside of her base. Her platform is basically Obama with bandages instead of Obama on steroids, young people are facing real challenges and the future doesn't provide an optimistic outlook for them. Saying you're are going to remove barriers without acknowledging wealth disparity is growing and upward mobility is nearly non-existent for majority of people is just showing the lack of insight. She cannot continue to think that the Obama legacy or that her being better than Trump is enough to get young people to the booth.

As a whole her campaign took a lot of things for granted and are seeing the consequences. The fact that people continue to deny her weakness as a candidate are puzzling. I don't see how there is a mystery of why she is not appealing like Obama. As a candidate Obama was able to seem authentic, didn't have to constantly defend his lack of transparency, didn't have the deck stacked in his favor and his campaign especially in the primary was an underdog story - where he was able to make monumental gains and captured the hopes and dreams of a whole generation. Lets not even get into the fact that Obama was coming on the tail end of 8 years of Bush thus enthusiasm among people voting for him was also magnified by the need to replace a disaster and not allow another disaster into the White House. Obama is still appealing to young voters, but I think the majority think the DNC and democrats failed him - they expected more out of the presidency and the crushing victory he achieved over McCain. Now they see the next nominee campaign on incremental improvements of programs Obama started but what people really want is massive gains.

Both you and I realize that her policies would never get through Congress unless both houses were controlled by Dems. So I though she should have been bold with her proposals and made a point of pandering to young voters a lot more during and after the convention.
Click to expand...

I don't really know what she could have done to embrace Sanders anymore than she already has. She has massively adjusted her platform and the differences here are far more significant than the bandaids you are describing them as.

And her appealing more to Sanders voters than she already has wouldn't change anything. Sanders himself no matter what he says can get the hold outs to support her.
 
P

PBY

Banned
excelsiorlef said:
That's our attitude not hers soooo... fuck it, frankly.

A lot of us are just sick of it. I know I am. It's frankly exhausting having to have the same few fights over and over with the same cast of characters here so fuck it.
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Sure.

To be clear - fuck busters. But I think there's some subset that aren't the crazy train, that do have realistic objections that should be heard.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
I've seen no one offer a substantial criticism of the campaign it's all optics bullshit. It's exhausting because it's impossible to provide counterfactual even though all evidence points to it being meaningless but it seems to matter if you spend all day watching CNN.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
PBY said:
Sure.

To be clear - fuck busters. But I think there's some subset that aren't the crazy train, that do have realistic objections that should be heard.
Click to expand...

And she's listening... I mean her platform is fantastic.

Reality is young people of any generation are horrible at actually getting off their ass and voting.

NYCmetsfan said:
I've seen no one offer a substantial criticism of the campaign it's all optics bullshit. It's exhausting because it's impossible to provide counterfactual even though all evidence points to it being meaningless but it seems to matter if you spend all day watching CNN.
Click to expand...

And then there's the bullshit like what happened in the Little Miss Flint thread
 
U

User 463088

Banned
PBY said:
Sure.

To be clear - fuck busters. But I think there's some subset that aren't the crazy train, that do have realistic objections that should be heard.
Click to expand...
I mean, please don't take this wrong, but at this point there are few and far addressable realistic objections. It's bitchcrackers now. She has policy positions that address 99% of the same stuff Bernie did. The difference is, she's not wearing a Bernie suit while she delivers it. Like, that's not fixable. It is what it is.
 
D

dramatis

Member
PBY said:
I also think that the snyde attitude towards millenials doesn't help.
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I don't think it's a snide attitude towards millennials. They were offered a dozen olive branches, but the diehards turned all of them down.

Beyond that, what is left? How much time is left in the race to keep wasting resources on this crowd? It is like trying to convince racists to stop being racist—it cannot happen over three months or even six months. In the end isn't it all just whining about how they didn't get Bernie Sanders, rather than any actual policy?

Time to move on to more elastic voters.

And frankly, millennials aren't the vote to clinch in this race. It's the white female vote.
 
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