Support NeoGAF

[Diablos]

Whatever Hillary does today may be overshadowed by the NYC bombing suspect search.

 

[Wilsongt]

More middle of the road BS from the Today Show.

"Did Trump jump the gun, and was Clinton too cautious?"

No one wants to show bias, and it's honestly frustrating as all hell. Except for Fox, because that's their job.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I also think that the snyde attitude towards millenials doesn't help.

Why? I'm not running for President. I don't care what dumb millennials think about me thinking that millennials are dumb.

I blame parents for telling their dumb kids that they're special. When they're not. They're just like all the other dumb kids.

 

[User 463088]

I don't think it's a snide attitude towards millennials. They were offered a dozen olive branches, but the diehards turned all of them down.

Beyond that, what is left? How much time is left in the race to keep wasting resources on this crowd? It is like trying to convince racists to stop being racist—it cannot happen over three months or even six months. In the end isn't it all just whining about how they didn't get Bernie Sanders, rather than any actual policy?

Time to move on to more elastic voters.

And frankly, millennials aren't the vote to clinch in this race. It's the white female vote.

This is true. We need to focus on the white, female college educated voter. Their push/pull factors aren't the same as 18-23 year olds. And, there are a lot more of them than there are of persuadable millennials.

 

[NeoXChaos]

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/the-trump-surge/

 

[cooljeanius]

Man, |OT11| already? These things move way too quickly... would there be any interest splitting PoliGAF into multiple sub-PoliGAFs? Say, for example:

• PoliticsGAF: for election coverage, horse race news, polls, etc.
• PolicyGAF: for discussing proposed legislation, executive orders, and actually governing
• PoliticalOperativeGAF: for sharing experiences of working/interning/volunteering in a political position

Or maybe split it up like the founders did and have separate threads for each branch of government? 1 thread for the executive, 1 thread for the legislative, 1 thread for the judicial...

 

[Cesare Borgia]

I think a lot of millennials realize their life isn't going to get better regardless of who wins in November. They either get four years of obstruction/nothing and triangulation or four years of disaster; do you want to slowly bleed to death or be blown up. It's not a particularly exciting choice if you boil it down to that. Throw in the dislike/distrust Clinton inspires and it becomes an even harder sell. I'm not sure what the strategy should be. Having Obama and Sanders doing rallies could help. I still expect October to be a big month of impressive GOTV movement though.

 

[Wilsongt]

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/the-trump-surge/

Even with the toss ups, Trump loses.

Excellent.

 

[plagiarize]

The write up by godcohn deserves special praise. He's amazing.

It's a great write up for sure.

Seven weeks though... gosh. Are we all going to know who won so soon?

 

[nature boy]

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/the-trump-surge/

As I said in the previous page, big bedwetting from Sabato.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think a lot of millennials realize their life isn't going to get better regardless of who wins in November. They either get four years of obstruction/nothing and triangulation or four years of disaster; do you want to slowly bleed to death or be blown up.

I mean, under this premise though, what are they actually doing about anything to make anything better? For the most part, nothing. Or whining about shit on chans.

Nasty old Hillary Clinton isn't magically the Democratic nominee, she started out campaigning

Spoiler

for Republicans

.

Be the change you want to see, and other crap from inspirational posters.

 

[Spiritreaver]

If Clinton campaign wants those young voters, Hillary needs to be as real as she can be. Speak from the heart either positively or negatively. Show them (us?) that she can be believed, she is looking out for them, and is willing to listen. Ask them to hold her accountable, their vote matters just as much as any other to her.

Surely she has a story to tell about how a young person has influenced her in some way today, if not that there's plenty of stories where she has adjusted her position on things because of the stories of others. Something heartfelt and honest. It would help pull her image away from this corrupt politician swayed by $$$.

Key, must be believable. That's her biggest hurdle and might be damn near impossible to surmount at this point.

 

[HylianTom]

One week from the first debate.

And Election Day is now less than 50 days away.

I've been pretty grumpy/"let's-get-this-shit-over-with" about this campaign as a whole, but after seeing Obama this weekend, I'm pretty damn excited to see him hit the trail.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Key, must be believable. That's her biggest hurdle and might be damn near impossible to surmount at this point.

If Clinton said the sky was blue, millennials would assume she was lying, even when provided the evidence otherwise.

It's a lost cause. They're too stubborn.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I think a lot of millennials realize their life isn't going to get better regardless of who wins in November. They either get four years of obstruction/nothing and triangulation or four years of disaster; do you want to slowly bleed to death or be blown up. It's not a particularly exciting choice if you boil it down to that. Throw in the dislike/distrust Clinton inspires and it becomes an even harder sell. I'm not sure what the strategy should be. Having Obama and Sanders doing rallies could help. I still expect October to be a big month of impressive GOTV movement though.

Rubio:

He trails among Hispanic voters by just six points, even as Mr. Trump trails by 40 points among the same voters.

SIGH

 

[tbm24]

I think a lot of millennials realize their life isn't going to get better regardless of who wins in November. They either get four years of obstruction/nothing and triangulation or four years of disaster; do you want to slowly bleed to death or be blown up. It's not a particularly exciting choice if you boil it down to that. Throw in the dislike/distrust Clinton inspires and it becomes an even harder sell. I'm not sure what the strategy should be. Having Obama and Sanders doing rallies could help. I still expect October to be a big month of impressive GOTV movement though.

I'm sure this applies to many, but my experience has just been general apathy from around my age group against Clinton for reasons no one has been able to explain that isn't pointing to Reddit or that YouTube video of her lying for 8 minutes. None of them have ever bothered to read her website for her policies and ideas. None of them will read her book that came out recently, or YouTube speeches she's had where she speaks in detail on issues such as mental health. I honestly don't know what can get these people I know engaged.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Surely she has a story to tell about how a young person has influenced her in some way today, if not that there's plenty of stories where she has adjusted her position on things because of the stories of others. Something heartfelt and honest. It would help pull her image away from this corrupt politician swayed by $$$.

I met this young scientist named Anita. And she said, "It's not what science means to me, it's what I mean to science."

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think a lot of millennials realize their life isn't going to get better regardless of who wins in November. They either get four years of obstruction/nothing and triangulation or four years of disaster; do you want to slowly bleed to death or be blown up. It's not a particularly exciting choice if you boil it down to that. Throw in the dislike/distrust Clinton inspires and it becomes an even harder sell. I'm not sure what the strategy should be. Having Obama and Sanders doing rallies could help. I still expect October to be a big month of impressive GOTV movement though.

That's fucking delusional.

 

[Diablos]

Even with the toss ups, Trump loses.

Excellent.

She has to push Dems over the top in the Senate too or we're gonna have a divided SCOTUS forever.

Blah now the news is talking about a NY/NJ terror cell. Great way to start the week. Fucking hell.

 

[RustyNails]

This chelsea motherfucking terrorist.

 

[Holmes]

Sabato seems to have jumped the gun with his Ohio rating.

 

[Iolo]

Is there really this much elasticity in the voter pool.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't think the solution is for her to be less authentic.

 

[noshten]

I'ma stop you after the first sentence. Bernie lost. He was given way, way more input in things than he was entitled to. Sorry, not sorry, this is t. It is not reasonable, logical or electorally significant to say that Hillary's path to victory is ignoring her policy platforms and promoting Bernie's. Had Bernie won, his ideas and positions would have been the ones we ran on 100%.

These people are not children that need their hands held so they get everything they want. These are adults, who live in the world that actually exists. And they need to take an iota of responsibility for the future of the nation. They are not special snowflakes. They, like millions of other people before them, supported a candidate who lost. Now, is the time to, you know, move on? I guess?

Your whole argument is "Promise the moon because who cares!?" The fact that we're still dealing with people who actually thought Bernie would have done one half of one percent of his pie in the sky stuff is a textbook example of why you don't offer things you know you cannot deliver on. The fact that some (some, small number, not a lot, a few, a handful, opposite a plethora) are unable or unwilling to move on....I don't have the energy or time for them anymore. They lost my goodwill when they started chanting NO TPP over a damn civil rights icon.

Hillary is the Democratic nominee. She is the rightfully selected nominee who won fair and square within the rules. She extended a giant olive branch to her opponent and his allies. Her opponent is on board with her, and has managed to move the overall discussion to the left. The fact that some Busters didn't get their VP choice, their verbatim policy positions in a document no one reads, or the curtain patterns they wanted.....I'm sorry, but we just don't have time for this anymore. They need tough love, and I hope Bernie is the one to give it to them.

She wasn't elected on the back of her policies, she was selected based on her preexisting support among the democratic base which she failed to expand during the primary and is having difficulty with the voters to whom Bernie was preferable - independent and young voters. To not see this after losing these two blocks of voters by pretty substantial margins primary after primary is at best foolish at worse ignorant.

Both platforms have about as much chances of being passed in the current political climate. The main reason Bernie's policies aren't feasible isn't the financial implications of people paying higher taxes, or the difficulty of changing the ACA into Single Payer, or putting a tax on wall street speculation - they aren't feasible because dems themselves are going to roadblock a lot of the platform even if they somehow held all the power. Similar to the way they ran from Obama after he was elected instead of remaining firm and making sure more of what he ran on actually got passed during his first two years as president. When dems rejected Obama and ran from him they should have realized that next election this would end up biting them in the arse. The things people were frustrated with Obama - how certain financial institutions made billions out of the tragedy and were able to consolidate more power and assets during the aftermath of the financial crisis are only amplified by the Clinton campaign. Her instance on not being transparent on a variety of subjects leads to a lack of trust among people outside her base.
Her whole campaign has been an exercise in amplifying her weaknesses - where instead of discussing a bold plan she has and how we would go about implementing it - her campaign has been on the defensive on her emails, her health, her foundation, her speeches etc. I think a tax on Wall Street speculation and an even higher tax burden for the 1% would have been a fairly popular with the majority of people who aren't enthusiastic about Clinton. If you think that this is "promising the moon" than it speaks more about how messed up the system is.

 

[excelsiorlef]

If Clinton campaign wants those young voters, Hillary needs to be as real as she can be. Speak from the heart either positively or negatively. Show them (us?) that she can be believed, she is looking out for them, and is willing to listen. Ask them to hold her accountable, their vote matters just as much as any other to her.

Surely she has a story to tell about how a young person has influenced her in some way today, if not that there's plenty of stories where she has adjusted her position on things because of the stories of others. Something heartfelt and honest. It would help pull her image away from this corrupt politician swayed by $$$.

Key, must be believable. That's her biggest hurdle and might be damn near impossible to surmount at this point.

She gave an hearnest and frankly powerful interview about herself, the issues she faces as a woman politician to Humans if New York...

You know that living facebook meme machine that has even turned abusive stalking ex-boyfriends into "heart string pulling stories:"

And what was the response here?

That it was calculated, insincere followed by a focus on how the sexism she faced in law school was maybe justified because Vietnam...
Like I said fuck it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't know. Maybe if she keeps getting less and less authentic it loops back to 255.
Like nuclear Gandhi.

 

[NeoXChaos]

 

[Holmes]

So why is the sky falling because the news is talking about the bombings?

 

[HylianTom]

I love that they're too dumb to realize that poking Kasich (and others) might not be the best of ideas..

 

[Spiritreaver]

She gave an hearnest and frankly powerful interview about herself, the issues she faces as a woman politician to Humans if New York...

You know that living facebook meme machine that has even turned abusive stalking ex-boyfriends into "heart string pulling stories:"

And what was the response here?

That it was calculated, insincere followed by a focus on how the sexism she faced in law school was maybe justified because Vietnam...
Like I said fuck it.

Yeah, I've spoken to a lot of people in this camp and tried different ways of getting them to reconsider. Nothing works, I've always had the idea that there's nothing she can do here. She still has to try though.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So why is the sky falling because the news is talking about the bombings?

I assume it's because the thought is, a terror attack helps Trump.

But nobody died and last time we had an attack, Trump botched the entire thing and actually lost support.

 

[HylianTom]

I assume it's because the thought is, a terror attack helps Trump.

But nobody died and last time we had an attack, Trump botched the entire thing and actually lose support.

Yeah, I wonder if it reinforces the whole "it's a dangerous world, don't take a risk by putting this madman in charge" theme that Clinton has been pushing.

 

[Emarv]

Millenials are the most overrated demographic to discuss. I think we all just like saying the word millenials and talking about social media.

As a millenial, we suck but I love us. I ain't worried about us, though. The majority will come home on Nov 8th. The rest would vote for Nader, regardless, even in the face of a white nationalist opponent. No reason to fight too hard and change your message for a group that will be fine anyway.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah, I've spoken to a lot of people in this camp and tried different ways of getting them to reconsider. Nothing works, I've always had the idea that there's nothing she can do here. She still has to try though.

And she is.

My attitude is not hers.

 

[Holmes]

I mean, regardless of who it helps, and I don't particularly think this event really helps anyone because the response to it has been pretty passive, the fact is that it happened and it's news right now. Don't worry, they'll cover Clinton's speech and then press conference/gaggle where she says Trump's response to the bombings was shit.

 

[Plinko]

I love that they're too dumb to realize that poking Kasich (and others) might not be the best of ideas..

Kasich could come out completely against Trump and be fine next election. I don't get why Priebus even bothered.

 

[KingK]

I think a lot of millennials realize their life isn't going to get better regardless of who wins in November. They either get four years of obstruction/nothing and triangulation or four years of disaster; do you want to slowly bleed to death or be blown up. It's not a particularly exciting choice if you boil it down to that. Throw in the dislike/distrust Clinton inspires and it becomes an even harder sell. I'm not sure what the strategy should be. Having Obama and Sanders doing rallies could help. I still expect October to be a big month of impressive GOTV movement though.

Yeah I'm 24. Most people I know my age have either moved back in with their parents or live with multiple roommates, with no foreseeable path towards independence, despite being well educated and doing most things right. It's a situation that breeds apathy. I mean shit, I was valedictorian of my high school class and didn't get a single fucking scholarship and will graduate this December with over 30K in student loan debt.

But yeah, a lot of people just won't trust her even when she proposes good policy. I think a lot of that won't go away until she can successfully prove herself as dedicated to them when in office. She's been in politics a long time, and has therefore made some drastic changes in her rhetoric and her stances on some major issues; I would say most notably the crime bill/drug policy and Iraq. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical. Obama had the advantage of largely being a blank slate on the national stage, with the most notable item in his record being his opposition to the war.

Edit: I also think playing up her endorsements/affiliations with neocons and especially Bush era republicans does a lot more harm than good.

 

[Boke1879]

I don't think these events help anyone. But you can frame it that Trump jumps to conclusions way too fast and definitely implies racial profiling in these comments

 

[User 463088]

She wasn't elected on the back of her policies, she was selected based on her preexisting support among the democratic base which she failed to expand during the primary and is having difficulty with the voters to whom Bernie was preferable - independent and young voters. To not see this after losing these two blocks of voters by pretty substantial margins primary after primary is at best foolish at worse ignorant.

This is wrong for a lot of reasons, and completely ignores that, yes, Hillary was nominated based on her policy positions. They were preferable to the majority of voters who took part in the primary. We weren't uninformed. We weren't stupid. We weren't just sheep following the DNC. She won because her base was bigger than any of her opponents. Because, you know, her base was the Democratic party. African American voters, women, people of color, etc. This is the Democratic Party. This has been the Democratic party for decades. This will be the party going forward. You never, ever, ever, build a coalition around young voters. It never, ever, ever, ever, ever works. Ever,. I mean, if we're really, really going to sit here and talk about who didn't expand their coalition, I don't think that's an argument Bernie is going to win. (See African American voters in the primary. See registered Democrats. See Latino voters. Etc.)

The reason it's silly to go after millennials is the same reason it was stupid of McGovern to build his campaign around the youth. They don't vote. They get an idea. It's cool for 30 minutes, then they give up on it. It's a problem. No one has been able to fix it in the last 100 years. Bernie had the same issue in that he lost total control over his delegates.

But, literally, I'm not talking about the primary anymore because literally no one cares anymore. It's tedious.

Both platforms have about as much chances of being passed in the current political climate. The main reason Bernie's policies aren't feasible isn't the financial implications of people paying higher taxes, or the difficulty of changing the ACA into Single Payer, or putting a tax on wall street speculation - they aren't feasible because dems themselves are going to roadblock a lot of the platform even if they somehow held all the power. Similar to the way they ran from Obama after he was elected instead of remaining firm and making sure more of what he ran on actually got passed during his first two years as president. When dems rejected Obama and ran from him they should have realized that next election this would end up biting them in the arse. The things people were frustrated with Obama - how certain financial institutions made billions out of the tragedy and were able to consolidate more power and assets during the aftermath of the financial crisis are only amplified by the Clinton campaign. Her instance on not being transparent on a variety of subjects leads to a lack of trust among people outside her base.

Or, maybe the Busters are just out of step with what the Democratic party (and it's politicians, that's fine!) actually want, as a whole. You are oversimplifying the quote unquote frustration with Obama. Things didn't go as well as they could have because, again, the Left didn't get their unicorn in every pot and a flying car in every garage. So they just didn't bother to turn up. You know, exactly like what some on the left are pretending to do this time! And we did damn well during the 1st two years of his Presidency, I believe.

Her whole campaign has been an exercise in amplifying her weaknesses - where instead of discussing a bold plan she has and how we would go about implementing it - her campaign has been on the defensive on her emails, her health, her foundation, her speeches etc. I think a tax on Wall Street speculation and an even higher tax burden for the 1% would have been a fairly popular with the majority of people who aren't enthusiastic about Clinton. If you think that this is "promising the moon" than it speaks more about how messed up the system is.

Literally, the number of voters who care about taxes on Wall Street speculation is like four. Maybe five if Forma is in the room at the time. Who in their right mind would run a GE campaign on that issue?

And, like, again, I'm not going to go through the primaries again, but any candidate would have things thrown at them. Believe me.

 

[dramatis]

She wasn't elected on the back of her policies, she was selected based on her preexisting support among the democratic base which she failed to expand during the primary and is having difficulty with the voters to whom Bernie was preferable - independent and young voters. To not see this after losing these two blocks of voters by pretty substantial margins primary after primary is at best foolish at worse ignorant.

Both platforms have about as much chances of being passed in the current political climate. The main reason Bernie's policies aren't feasible isn't the financial implications of people paying higher taxes, or the difficulty of changing the ACA into Single Payer, or putting a tax on wall street speculation - they aren't feasible because dems themselves are going to roadblock a lot of the platform even if they somehow held all the power. Similar to the way they ran from Obama after he was elected instead of remaining firm and making sure more of what he ran on actually got passed during his first two years as president. When dems rejected Obama and ran from him they should have realized that next election this would end up biting them in the arse. The things people were frustrated with Obama - how certain financial institutions made billions out of the tragedy and were able to consolidate more power and assets during the aftermath of the financial crisis are only amplified by the Clinton campaign. Her instance on not being transparent on a variety of subjects leads to a lack of trust among people outside her base.
Her whole campaign has been an exercise in amplifying her weaknesses - where instead of discussing a bold plan she has and how we would go about implementing it - her campaign has been on the defensive on her emails, her health, her foundation, her speeches etc. I think a tax on Wall Street speculation and an even higher tax burden for the 1% would have been a fairly popular with the majority of people who aren't enthusiastic about Clinton. If you think that this is "promising the moon" than it speaks more about how messed up the system is.

You want to talk policy now, but the draw of Bernie Sanders was apparently how charismatic and righteous and etc. etc. he was, which was why people were so enthused about him, no? If Hillary was so stoogey next to Sanders, then why did people vote for her?

Because she offered reliable policy and specifically policy with broader appeal. She spread the issues she promoted across a wider swath of voters long before Sanders even realized he needed to court African Americans. She promoted issues that Sanders wore as lip service. She appealed to women, to AA, to Latinos, and built a coalition that Sanders did not. The independent and young voters couldn't overcome the winning coalition she engaged with. So yes, Hillary Clinton got elected on the back of her policies.

Apparently only when a woman wins by doing everything a man does, she won because she was establishment and had no merits of her own?

 

[Finale Fireworker]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

 

[Crayons]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

"Both sides are the same"

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think a lot of young people who grew up with Obama as their president when they were 10-14 years old just had their expectations raised too high for who should be president. Obama types don't come very often. Hillary is a "normal" president, regular politicians with a couple of minor scandals and a few shoddy votes, but ultimately is qualified for the job. While Obama was entirely scandal free, hip, young, a powerful speaker, pushing a message of hope.

It's actually pretty fascinating that despite all these emails leaking, not a single one is tied back to Obama or related to him in any way. He either is very good at covering his tracks, or he really does run a tight, clean ship. I can't really think of anything Obama has done or said that could be seen as "shady" unless you're already on the crazy train.

 

[Emarv]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

Jon Stewart's not around to tell us who to vote for anymore.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

Grew up with the internet and its never-ending supply of false information and during a significant recession so they don't trust anything. The millennials don't know how to both scrutinize information and understand the value of credible sources and facts. It's maddening.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah I'm 24. Most people I know my age have either moved back in with their parents or live with multiple roommates, with no foreseeable path towards independence, despite being well educated and doing most things right. It's a situation that breeds apathy. I mean shit, I was valedictorian of my high school class and didn't get a single fucking scholarship and will graduate this December with over 30K in student loan debt.

But yeah, a lot of people just won't trust her even when she proposes good policy. I think a lot of that won't go away until she can successfully prove herself as dedicated to them when in office. She's been in politics a long time, and has therefore made some drastic changes in her rhetoric and her stances on some major issues; I would say most notably the crime bill/drug policy and Iraq. It's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical. Obama had the advantage of largely being a blank slate on the national stage, with the most notable item in his record being his opposition to the war.

The crime bill the millennial messiah Bernie Sanders voted on and in fact campaigned on for years after to show he was tough on crime.

That 1994 crime bill?

Iraq, the one the other millenial dreamboat Joe Biden voted for?

This is why I don't bother.

You're talking about something that happened in 1994 completely in hindsight without historical context.

She voted 93% or whatever in lock with Sanders and part of that difference was her being tougher on guns then him, but she has to prove herself to be trusted.

She's about as honest as Obama according to Polifact but that doesn't matter does it?

Her entire career has been shifting to the left with the times. She doesn't flip flop she fucking learns and evolves you know like an intelligent politician does.

 

[Diablos]

Hillary speaking to press soon apparently

 

[nature boy]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

Relax, they'll come home.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Iraq, the one the other millenial dreamboat Joe Biden voted for?

Now this I don't understand. Biden is more conservative than Obama, and doesn't exactly have the most honest history, and yet they like Biden more than Hillary?

When it boils down to it, it seems like they'd rather have someone who seems friendly, but doesn't agree with them, over someone who is 99% on board with them, but is kind of weak at speaking.

Grew up with the internet and its never-ending supply of false information and during a significant recession so they don't trust anything. The millennials don't know how to both scrutinize information and understand the value of credible sources and facts. It's maddening.

Information overload does seem to be a real problem. Last Thursday, for example, I was mentally exhausted after the onslaught of never ending news. And it's hard to parse what's proper news or just garbage. When something is shared 100k times on Facebook, how is someone supposed to know it's junk?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Jon Stewart's not around to tell us who to vote for anymore.

Jon Stewart has bought into Clinton is just a panderer nonsense too. His interview about her where he claimed he believes even she doesn't know what she stands for was fucking embarrassing

Now this I don't understand. Biden is more conservative than Obama, and doesn't exactly have the most honest history, and yet they like Biden more than Hillary?

When it boils down to it, it seems like they'd rather have someone who seems friendly, but doesn't agree with them, over someone who is 99% on board with them, but is kind of weak at speaking.

I mean these are many of the same people voting Gary Johnson.


Who the fuck knows what they want