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[Deleted member 231381]

This is true. We need to focus on the white, female college educated voter. Their push/pull factors aren't the same as 18-23 year olds. And, there are a lot more of them than there are of persuadable millennials.

Why would you focus resources on a group you're already winning and has high predicted turnout? I mean, the phrase "diminishing returns" comes to mind. You focus resources on marginal groups - ones that wouldn't be won/have high turnout were it not for the resources you put in.

 

[Emarv]

Grew up with the internet and its never-ending supply of false information and during a significant recession so they don't trust anything. The millennials don't know how to both scrutinize information and understand the value of credible sources and facts. It's maddening.

Let's not forget millennials don't believe or follow traditional news sources anymore or believe in the integrity of those traditional bastions. We aggregate and skim.

Sometimes I wonder if we are the most susceptible to poor headlines, but then I remember my grandmother exists.

 

[User 463088]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

It's not so much millennials as a whole...it's just young people don't vote. They never have. There are more fun things to do than vote. So, if the term millennial is the problem, we can just refer to them as young voters. Those of us under 29 have a terrible participation rate. And, we can't say it's because they don't get what they want, because we have candidates with supposedly strong youth appeal that barely managed to move the turnout needle.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to appeal to these voters. I'[m glad Hillary is trying. But to pretend that she needs to focus extensively on them is just...no. There are more people in other winnable groups that are easier to win over.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Jon Stewart has bought into Clinton is just a panderer nonsense too. His interview about her where he claimed he believes even she doesn't know what she stands for was fucking embarrassing



I mean these are many of the same people voting Gary Johnson.


Who the fuck knows what they want

They want a chummy dude

 

[nature boy]

Clinton campaign spent too much time and effort trying to woo moderate Republicans (remember Whitman?, yeah) instead of energizing her base and minorities.

With a surrogate push and a ground game, she'll get across the line.

 

[shinra-bansho]

 

[balladofwindfishes]

It's not so much millennials as a whole...it's just young people don't vote. They never have. There are more fun things to do than vote. So, if the term millennial is the problem, we can just refer to them as young voters. Those of us under 29 have a terrible participation rate. And, we can't say it's because they don't get what they want, because we have candidates with supposedly strong youth appeal that barely managed to move the turnout needle.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to appeal to these voters. I'[m glad Hillary is trying. But to pretend that she needs to focus extensively on them is just...no. There are more people in other winnable groups that are easier to win over.

It's kind of shame that young people can't spare the 30-60 minutes on a random Tuesday in November to vote.

Or in some states, buy a stamp...

 

[Slurpy2k20]

What is it about the ever-nebulous milennials that makes them petty voters?

I'm 25. I'm a millennial. I am miserable 100% of the time and wish I could die. But I'm also smart enough to vote Hillary Clinton. What makes some of my peers different?

100%? Seek some help dude. I mean, seriously. Find out what's making you miserable and fix it.

 

[Bowdz]

Guys, let's all calm down and look at the big picture. We are less than 10 days away from the biggest event of the last four years, an event which promises to define the future for the next decade, and an event that will inspire millions.

I speak of course about Elon Musk's Interplanetary Transport System, Big Fucking Rocket/Mars colonization architecture announcement at the IAC.

I the darkest of times, we look to Elon Musk to guide the way.

 

[Emarv]

Why would you focus resources on a group you're already winning and has high predicted turnout? I mean, the phrase "diminishing returns" comes to mind. You focus resources on marginal groups - ones that wouldn't be won/have high turnout were it not for the resources you put in.

Because that vote is potentially tenuous and new for the Dems. Like you said, high turnout and a potential vital demographic for not just 2016 but every election going forward.

Meanwhile, we will have a new batch of millenials next cycle with new needs. White women with college degrees matter more long-term and short-term. It's just fact.

 

[User 463088]

Clinton campaign spent too much time and effort trying to woo moderate Republicans (remember Whitman?, yeah) instead of energizing her base and minorities.

With a surrogate push and a ground game, she'll get across the line.

I have issue with this because it's just not true. There isn't a single policy position she changed, pivoted or moderated on in an effort to woo these people. They came on board because the alternative is Donald Trump. Her pitch to these voters was "I'm not crazy, you may not love me, but I won't blow up the world." *Probably. Energy is fleeting. Getting someone excited to vote in August isn't useful. There's plenty of time for that as we move into this part of the campaign.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

The millennials don't know how to both scrutinize information and understand the value of credible sources and facts. It's maddening.

This is so weird to hear, because I would have thought this was a milennial strong suit. What you said is how I feel about my mother and father, who believe every Facebook meme about Aspartame and vaccines to be true and think everything the TV news says is the ultimate exposé of what's happening in the world.

I would have thought millenials, who grew up on the internet and are familiar with its dubious credibility, would be excellent at determining what is a joke or a lie and how to find out if something is worthwhile.

Like, when I have questions about something or don't know about something, I Google it. Isn't that what milennials have been trained to do their whole lives? If we are Googling everything, how can we have weak information processing skills?

Weird af.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Googling a question often just leads you to Yahoo Answers lol

 

[Emarv]

I have issue with this because it's just not true. There isn't a single policy position she changed, pivoted or moderated on in an effort to woo these people. They came on board because the alternative is Donald Trump. Her pitch to these voters was "I'm not crazy, you may not love me, but I won't blow up the world." *Probably. Energy is fleeting. Getting someone excited to vote in August isn't useful. There's plenty of time for that as we move into this part of the campaign.

I think both things are true. She didn't change policy but she did spend weeks trying to appeal to moderates and moderate republicans instead of young voters. She lost some enthusiasm she had coming out of the convention but I think it's totally fine. Save the big enthusiasm push for millenials until later in the year anyway. We're so fickle that I think it's smarter strategically to lock up moderates early and before the debates and then rile up your young people as we get closer (which they seem to be doing now).

 

[Iolo]

Elon Musk for President of Earth

 

[User 463088]

Why would you focus resources on a group you're already winning and has high predicted turnout? I mean, the phrase "diminishing returns" comes to mind. You focus resources on marginal groups - ones that wouldn't be won/have high turnout were it not for the resources you put in.

It's a new voting group for us to actually win....so I think we need to spend a bit of time focusing on solidifying that support. These are not are likely voters, at least not at the margins we're seeing this time. So, I want to do nothing that alienates them. To be clear, the outreach she's doing to young voters is great. I fully 100% support this. I think it's perfect. We need to do this because 1) we want their vote and 2) we want their down ballot support and 3) everyone should vote!

Googling a question often just leads you to Yahoo Answers lol

What you do is you Google it on Bing and then you'll get Ask Jeeves to answer it for you.

 

[Emarv]

This is so weird to hear, because I would have thought this was a milennial strong suit. What you said is how I feel about my mother and father, who believe every Facebook meme about Aspartame and vaccines to be true and think everything the TV news says is the ultimate exposé of what's happening in the world.

I would have thought millenials, who grew up on the internet and are familiar with its dubious credibility, would be excellent at determining what is a joke or a lie and how to find out if something is worthwhile.

Like, when I have questions about something or don't know about something, I Google it. Isn't that what milennials have been trained to do their whole lives? If we are Googling everything, how can we have weak information processing skills?

Weird af.

Because we have no patience to read anything that's nuanced. Maybe I'm bitter about my own generation but if politifact or snopes doesn't say False but instead says Mostly False or Mostly True, we don't have patience to sit down and take a look at complex views. We totally fact check absolute falsities but I think we have serious issues with addressing issues in more than just a superficial way (but I'd also argue that's been a continuing trend even before our generation)

 

[Spiritreaver]

Don't google "hillary sick" right now.

 

[Bowdz]

If Hillary wants to be hip with millennials, she should tour SpaceX HQ at Hawthorne and do a policy speech on space with a joint appearance with Elon Musk. Tie it into a huge STEM funding, college debt relief policy speech.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Because that vote is tenuous and new for the Dems. Like you said, high turnout and a potential vital demographic for not just 2016 but every election going forward.

Meanwhile, we will have a new batch of millenials next cycle with new needs. White women with college degrees matter more long-term and short-term. It's just fact.

Some white women with college degrees are millennials. I would go so far as to suggest that 24-year-old white women with a college degree has more economic, social and political interests in common with a 24-year old Hispanic man with a college degree than a 60-year-old white woman with a college degree. What policies are uniformly attractive to all white woman with college degrees? Not even women's rights issues are; given that a reasonable proportion of that demographic is pretty conservative (especially the older part). It's just such an incredibly broad demographic. You may as well say "we need to focus on employed people, because they're 95% of the electorate". I mean, okay, sure. Now what are you going to do that attracts all employed people? Or even a meaningful fraction of employed people? It's too heterogeneous a group, and your strategy doesn't mean anything. That's not a strategy, it's a fast ticket to a Republican Senate.

Beyond that, it's not about what the turnout of the demographic is. It's about expected change in turnout. Suppose you had the purple demographic, with 0% turnout, and the green demographic, with 80% turnout. Who do you spend the money on? You can't tell! You don't have the necessary information from what I've given you. You need to know the effect of spending your money. It might be that green demographic is tapped out - you could spend loads and only hit 85% turnout. Meanwhile, a small investment in purple demographic might take them up to 40%. As a rule of thumb, you want to target the largest group that you can affect with the same investment that also has the lowest turnout, because of diminishing returns. White women with college degrees is too large a group to sensibly affect with the same investment. Older white women in the middle of their careers with college degrees already have a big turnout. Younger women *are* millennials. Retirees have more interests with other retirees. So it just doesn't make any sense.

Like, it's minorities and young people. That's what the polls tell us. That's where the RV/LV gap is. So why are we pretending Clinton can still take the Senate by fucking around with soccer moms? Forget the soccer moms. Get onto Univision or Telemundo; Kaine's Spanish is good enough that he is being criminally underused. Do a college tour of the swing states. That's where the Senate's at.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is so weird to hear, because I would have thought this was a milennial strong suit. What you said is how I feel about my mother and father, who believe every Facebook meme about Aspartame and vaccines to be true and think everything the TV news says is the ultimate exposé of what's happening in the world.

I would have thought millenials, who grew up on the internet and are familiar with its dubious credibility, would be excellent at determining what is a joke or a lie and how to find out if something is worthwhile.

Like, when I have questions about something or don't know about something, I Google it. Isn't that what milennials have been trained to do their whole lives? If we are Googling everything, how can we have weak information processing skills?

Weird af.

Nah they google fu to reinforce their preconceptions

And then wave everything else off as Clinton lying and pandering

 

[Emarv]

If Hillary wants to be hip with millennials, she should tour SpaceX HQ at Hawthorne and do a policy speech on space with a joint appearance with Elon Musk. Tie it into a huge STEM funding, college debt relief policy speech.

I think you meant Avengers HQ with Tony Stark and tie it to free Guardians of the Galaxy 2 tickets for everyone.

Lock down the GAF vote.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Googling a question often just leads you to Yahoo Answers lol

But that's what I'm talking about! If one of my search results is Yahoo answers, I know from experience it is stupid and will almost definitely not help me. I didn't get through college citing Yahoo answers and the comments section of YouTube videos. We are an educated generation, aren't we? Are we really too dumb to read a whole article?

100%? Seek some help dude. I mean, seriously. Find out what's making you miserable and fix it.

Being miserable is the only way I can be happy. I've been like this since I was a kid. I love things and enjoy things and function as a normal human being. I'm just also supremely distressed at all times. It's a weird harmony.

 

[nature boy]

I have issue with this because it's just not true. There isn't a single policy position she changed, pivoted or moderated on in an effort to woo these people. They came on board because the alternative is Donald Trump. Her pitch to these voters was "I'm not crazy, you may not love me, but I won't blow up the world." *Probably. Energy is fleeting. Getting someone excited to vote in August isn't useful. There's plenty of time for that as we move into this part of the campaign.

She was wooing Republican donors, and in retrospect she has a war chest but some work to do with the coalition she needs to (re-)build. But that time spent fundraising and trying to dry up Trump's donors was a mistake.

And I'm not sure what Tim Kaine is doing when he's such a valuable asset with hispanics and you see little to none targeted events with him.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

But that's what I'm talking about! If one of my search results is Yahoo answers, I know from experience it is stupid and will almost definitely not help me. I didn't get through college citing Yahoo answers and the comments section of YouTube videos. We are an educated generation, aren't we? Are we really too dumb to read a whole article?

I got through college reading the Wikipedia article and just using Wikipedia's sources as my sources heh

Good enough for Wiki, good enough for me.

 

[Bowdz]

I think you meant Avengers HQ with Tony Stark and tie it to free Guardians of the Galaxy 2 tickets for everyone.

Lock down the GAF vote.

Indeed. There's a reason he has his own tribute band:

http://raptorcommandmusic.com/elon-champion-for-humanity-single-released/

 

[rjinaz]

It's kind of shame that young people can't spare the 30-60 minutes on a random Tuesday in November to vote.

Or in some states, buy a stamp...

lol a stamp isn't even required. They literally can't be bothered to take the 5 minutes to sign up online. My Brother is one of these people. "I'll get to it". Sure.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

yeah, Kaine is being wasted. Absolute travesty. Picking him was an immediate signal she didn't really care that much for the young coalition and wanted to focus on the Hispanic coalition (I mean, again, intersectionality, but in broad terms)... and then she doesn't play to his strengths at all? Why? May as well have picked a spoon for Vice President.

 

[Diablos]

Hillary sounds pretty strong right now

 

[balladofwindfishes]

yeah, Kaine is being wasted. Absolute travesty. Picking him was an immediate signal she didn't really care that much for the young coalition and wanted to focus on the Hispanic coalition (I mean, again, intersectionality, but in broad terms)... and then she doesn't play to his strengths at all? Why? May as well have picked a spoon for Vice President.

Solid Blue Virginia for potentially two elections makes the pick worth it all. That's cementing a trend that will last well into the future.

His Spanish is being wasted, though

 

[Emarv]

Some white women with college degrees are millennials. I would go so far as to suggest that 24-year-old white women with a college degree has more economic, social and political interests in common with a 24-year old Hispanic man with a college degree than a 60-year-old white woman with a college degree. What policies are uniformly attractive to all white woman with college degrees? Not even women's rights issues are; given that a reasonable proportion of that demographic is pretty conservative (especially the older part). It's just such an incredibly broad demographic. You may as well say "we need to focus on employed people, because they're 95% of the electorate". I mean, okay, sure. Now what are you going to do that attracts all employed people? Or even a meaningful fraction of employed people? It's too heterogeneous a group, and your strategy doesn't mean anything. That's not a strategy, it's a fast ticket to a Republican Senate.

Beyond that, it's not about what the turnout of the demographic is. It's about expected change in turnout. Suppose you had the purple demographic, with 0% turnout, and the green demographic, with 80% turnout. Who do you spend the money on? You can't tell! You don't have the necessary information from what I've given you. You need to know the effect of spending your money. It might be that green demographic is tapped out - you could spend loads and only hit 85% turnout. Meanwhile, a small investment in purple demographic might take them up to 40%. As a rule of thumb, you want to target the largest group that you can affect with the same investment that also has the lowest turnout, because of diminishing returns. White women with college degrees is too large a group to sensibly affect with the same investment. Older white women in the middle of their careers with college degrees already have a big turnout. Younger women *are* millennials. Retirees have more interests with other retirees. So it just doesn't make any sense.

Like, it's minorities and young people. That's what the polls tell us. That's where the RV/LV gap is. So why are we pretending Clinton can still take the Senate by fucking around with soccer moms? Forget the soccer moms. Get onto Univision or Telemundo; Kaine's Spanish is good enough that he is being criminally underused. Do a college tour of the swing states. That's where the Senate's at.

I largely agree that White Women with College degrees are also Millenials but that goes for most things with demographic overlap. Further, of course demographics are uncomfortably broad and can be argued as overly pandering to stereotypes of those generalizations. It's kind of written into the nature of generalities, I'd argue.

Your second paragraph I have some issue with but your third I've always agreed with. Millenials are important sure (we can argue just how important), but I've always said she needs to go after Hispanic voters more and not just rely on Trump to turn us out.

 

[Veritigo_X]

But that's what I'm talking about! If one of my search results is Yahoo answers, I know from experience it is stupid and will almost definitely not help me. I didn't get through college citing Yahoo answers and the comments section of YouTube videos. We are an educated generation, aren't we? Are we really too dumb to read a whole article?

Who do you think answers questions on Yahoo Answers?

 

[Bowdz]

yeah, Kaine is being wasted. Absolute travesty. Picking him was an immediate signal she didn't really care that much for the young coalition and wanted to focus on the Hispanic coalition (I mean, again, intersectionality, but in broad terms)... and then she doesn't play to his strengths at all? Why? May as well have picked a spoon for Vice President.

This.

I can't find a single Spanish language interview that Kaine has done post VP announcement. Can anyone find one? Has he done a single one?

 

[Spiritreaver]

Hillary sounds pretty strong right now

Just caught this, glad she's already out there talking about this.

 

[NeoXChaos]

 

[User 85168]

Hey, how about we don't generalize a block of voters? We shouldn't do that with other groups, and we shouldn't do it with young people either.

 

[Teggy]

If it turns out this is a "terror cell", it appears they are pretty inept and disorganized and are unlikely to have any real direct contact with ISIS. The person they are looking for is an American citizen. I don't think a narrative is going to come out of this that's going to really scare people.

Someone noted that Trump hasn't spoken to anyone that's not a right wing mouthpiece in a long time. I don't think that's going to help him.

 

[Y2Kev]

What's she saying?

 

[User 463088]

Hey, how about we don't generalize a block of voters? We shouldn't do that with other groups, and we shouldn't do it with young people either.

Fair point.

 

[Emarv]

Hey, how about we don't generalize a block of voters? We shouldn't do that with other groups, and we shouldn't do it with young people either.

I think that's totally valid

Spoiler

just let me know when I can complain about white dudes again, though

 

[Teggy]

What's she saying?

Yeah, I missed it.

 

[Diablos]

Great speech. Carol Costello on CNN actually criticizing her for not being as direct as Trump who says profile and build a wall. Might as well be a Fox show. Are you kidding me.

Then they said working with Silicon Valley has already proven to be too hard because of Apple/FBI drama. That's why Hillary said we need to work on that you morons. They just distort her narrative to fit theirs.

Also what the FUCK does Carol Costello mean when she says building the Mexican wall would make people feel safer about terrorism inside the US in NY carried out by people who aren't from Mexico.

Like what the fuck can someone buy out CNN please, it's a corpse

 

[Iolo]

Who is Carol Costello

 

[nature boy]

This.

I can't find a single Spanish language interview that Kaine has done post VP announcement. Can anyone find one? Has he done a single one?

He did one late August, half in Spanish half in English for Univision.

He needs rallies in heavily latino areas in Florida.

 

[Emarv]

Who is Carol Costello

A mess.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Why would you focus resources on a group you're already winning and has high predicted turnout? I mean, the phrase "diminishing returns" comes to mind. You focus resources on marginal groups - ones that wouldn't be won/have high turnout were it not for the resources you put in.

I don't think Hillary is winning white women by enough for my tastes. That's a group that usually goes Republican, and it'd be nice to swing it the other way. It's also far easier than trying to get blood from a turnip with millennials.

This is so weird to hear, because I would have thought this was a milennial strong suit. What you said is how I feel about my mother and father, who believe every Facebook meme about Aspartame and vaccines to be true and think everything the TV news says is the ultimate exposé of what's happening in the world.

I would have thought millenials, who grew up on the internet and are familiar with its dubious credibility, would be excellent at determining what is a joke or a lie and how to find out if something is worthwhile.

Like, when I have questions about something or don't know about something, I Google it. Isn't that what milennials have been trained to do their whole lives? If we are Googling everything, how can we have weak information processing skills?

Weird af.

People my age are only slightly better at this than our parents. We know not to click on the ads on a website since they're sketchy, but if the website is anything else, then we're totally susceptible to BS. The worst is when something is completely unsourced. I've read political articles that people share, and when I fact-check most of the claims, they're false. Which isn't surprising since there's not an external link for miles in the damn text.

 

[metalslimer]

If there is one thing I can agree with about the campaign mistakes is how badly Tim Kaine has been used overall.

 

[noshten]

This is wrong for a lot of reasons, and completely ignores that, yes, Hillary was nominated based on her policy positions. They were preferable to the majority of voters who took part in the primary. We weren't uninformed. We weren't stupid. We weren't just sheep following the DNC. She won because her base was bigger than any of her opponents. Because, you know, her base was the Democratic party. African American voters, women, people of color, etc. This is the Democratic Party. This has been the Democratic party for decades. This will be the party going forward. You never, ever, ever, build a coalition around young voters. It never, ever, ever, ever, ever works. Ever,. I mean, if we're really, really going to sit here and talk about who didn't expand their coalition, I don't think that's an argument Bernie is going to win. (See African American voters in the primary. See registered Democrats. See Latino voters. Etc.)

The reason it's silly to go after millennials is the same reason it was stupid of McGovern to build his campaign around the youth. They don't vote. They get an idea. It's cool for 30 minutes, then they give up on it. It's a problem. No one has been able to fix it in the last 100 years. Bernie had the same issue in that he lost total control over his delegates.

But, literally, I'm not talking about the primary anymore because literally no one cares anymore. It's tedious.


Or, maybe the Busters are just out of step with what the Democratic party (and it's politicians, that's fine!) actually want, as a whole. You are oversimplifying the quote unquote frustration with Obama. Things didn't go as well as they could have because, again, the Left didn't get their unicorn in every pot and a flying car in every garage. So they just didn't bother to turn up. You know, exactly like what some on the left are pretending to do this time! And we did damn well during the 1st two years of his Presidency, I believe.


Literally, the number of voters who care about taxes on Wall Street speculation is like four. Maybe five if Forma is in the room at the time. Who in their right mind would run a GE campaign on that issue?

And, like, again, I'm not going to go through the primaries again, but any candidate would have things thrown at them. Believe me.

I mean I'm not really arguing about why Clinton was chosen.
I'm saying outside of the democratic base she is a weak candidate and the current developments around the race are simply an demonstration of her struggles as a candidate to frame herself rather than allow others to control the narrative surrounding her.

People perceive Hillary as being too close with the donor class(they also have the same reservations about majority of politicians), hence raising the tax rates on 1% more than what she proposed and limiting speculation would be two ways of distancing herself from this narrative. You think that someone in their right mind wouldn't run on such a campaign in a GE but both those policies would be popular among the voters she is trying to court. Trump comes out with another tax cut for billionaires and she can hammer him on that instead of focusing on his BS rhetoric.

Also about McGovern - to say he wasn't sabotaged by his opponents within the party would be misrepresenting the truth.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

So somebody found an old post on an exchange subreddit apparently from Hillary's tech manager Paul Combetta (the guy who got immunity) on how to strip a "Very VIP" email address from archived email.

Uh oh.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy...paul_combetta_asking/?st=ita63q75&sh=a90e3e7f

 

[sc0la]

yeah, Kaine is being wasted. Absolute travesty. Picking him was an immediate signal she didn't really care that much for the young coalition and wanted to focus on the Hispanic coalition (I mean, again, intersectionality, but in broad terms)... and then she doesn't play to his strengths at all? Why? May as well have picked a spoon for Vice President.

Bubut Tim Kaine can play the spoons. And harmonica. At the same time.