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PoliGAF 2016 |OT12| The last days of the Republic

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G

Grief.exe

Member
thestopsign said:
Is there a strong correlation between bad education systems and Republican run states?

I was talking to a coworker last night and he did the typical Republican spiel about how he didn't think those who had earned more money should be "punished" for it and pay for the lazy ones. He was saying how I hadn't grown up in the south so I hadn't witnessed what it really is like. How is it not clear that you should be investing in education to fix these problems? If your state is under educated, the population probably isn't lazy, it probably is without hope.

The double standard where a lot of southern Republicans talk about how minorities do themselves no favors with how they act and behave compared to how they complain about their own states prosperity while simultaneously kneecapping it is ridiculous.

Sorry for the mini-tangent. Being a liberal in the south is frustrating.
Click to expand...

Lol I just had the same random thought the other day, I don't think anyone even replied to the post as it deviated from the discussion so greatly. I think it's worth discussing though.


Grief.exe said:
I just had a random thought.

Taking a look at many of these perennial right-wing states, West Virginia, Alabama, Texas, etc, etc. These areas are dead last in America on high school graduation rates and Bachelor Degrees. Since lack of education disproportionally produces right-wing voters that support, and elect officials that are extremely against taxation.

As a result, their schools fall behind liberal areas in funding, and they continue this self-fulfilling prophecy of voting right-wing officials into power due, in part, to their lack of education.
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M

Manmademan

Member
thestopsign said:
Is there a strong correlation between bad education systems and Republican run states?
Click to expand...

There's several.

Republicans in general believe in "small government" and low taxation, which means slashing budgets wherever they can- education is frequently one of the first and easiest targets.

Republicans also tend to cling to the theory that public education doesn't work and the private sector does a better job of education, despite all of the evidence showing the opposite. This leads them to push things like school voucher programs and charter school programs, which will absolutely wreck a public school system faster than anything else.

Finally, many of them are simply racist and give no fucks at all about minority school districts, so pointing out that poor districts full of black kids are barely functional as a result of the above simply results in shrugged shoulders and ranting about welfare queens, absentee fathers, and the faults of black culture.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
Captain Pants said:
Seeing this makes me wonder why Indiana is so deep red considering it's neighbors. I know it went blue in 2008, but outside of that, it's solid red. Having never been there, I'd think it'd be similar to Ohio and Iowa in terms of demographics, yet it's not a swing state.
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That is an oddball one.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
Captain Pants said:
Seeing this makes me wonder why Indiana is so deep red considering it's neighbors. I know it went blue in 2008, but outside of that, it's solid red. Having never been there, I'd think it'd be similar to Ohio and Iowa in terms of demographics, yet it's not a swing state.
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Isn't Indiana like suuuuuper religious and leans red because of social issues?
 
N

nature boy

Member
Dana Bash ‏@DanaBashCNN 14m14 minutes ago
Scoop: 30 former gop congressmen -some from key battleground states sign a letter saying they won't vote @realDonaldTrump story coming...
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Loser dynamic kicking in...
 
S

SexyFish

Banned
nature boy said:
Loser dynamic kicking in...
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Time to spend my fall break laughing at Donald. Lovely.


Edit: Story is here: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/republican-lawmakers-never-trump-letter/index.html
Washington (CNN)More than two dozen former Republican members of Congress released a letter Thursday saying they cannot vote for Donald Trump because he "makes a mockery" of their principles.

Though the letter makes no mention of Hillary Clinton, organizer Andrew Weintstein said some of the members will vote for the Democrat, while others will vote for Libertarian Gary Johnson or write in a candidate.
Click to expand...

Signatories include influential former congressman from key battleground states -- Bill Clinger of Pennsylvania, Jim Leach of Iowa, Tom Petri of Wisconsin and G. William Whitehurst of Virginia.
Clinger also chaired the Government and Oversight Committee that investigated the Clintons for the Filegate and Travelgate issues.
Click to expand...
 
R

Revolver

Member
thestopsign said:
Is there a strong correlation between bad education systems and Republican run states?

I was talking to a coworker last night and he did the typical Republican spiel about how he didn't think those who had earned more money should be "punished" for it and pay for the lazy ones. He was saying how I hadn't grown up in the south so I hadn't witnessed what it really is like. How is it not clear that you should be investing in education to fix these problems? If your state is under educated, the population probably isn't lazy, it probably is without hope.

The double standard where a lot of southern Republicans talk about how minorities do themselves no favors with how they act and behave compared to how they complain about their own states prosperity while simultaneously kneecapping it is ridiculous.

Sorry for the mini-tangent. Being a liberal in the south is frustrating.
Click to expand...

I remember reading how 9 out of 10 of the least educated states vote Republican.

"Republican-governed states have adopted cutting taxes for the wealthy and corporations while slashing education budgets as a standard policy."

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/11...education-states-america-vote-republican.html

I hear a lot of resentment for education spending from the Republican people I know. How it's a waste of money to spend on schools and "they never have enough" and so forth.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Captain Pants said:
Seeing this makes me wonder why Indiana is so deep red considering it's neighbors. I know it went blue in 2008, but outside of that, it's solid red. Having never been there, I'd think it'd be similar to Ohio and Iowa in terms of demographics, yet it's not a swing state.
Click to expand...
Indiana is dominated by Republicans on every level, and the Republican party machine there is one of the best oiled in the country. Indiana is mostly a rural state and it mostly lost it's Democratic ties after Steel industry went belly up in Gary (birthplace of Michael Jackson) in the 80's. It's a ghost town now with poverty and unemployment. Indianapolis is a nice diverse city with growing businesses, but just like Atlanta cannot overcome the rest of the state's crazy. Iowa at least has blue collar workers, massive John Deere plants and offices and college towns for kids to attract.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
It can't be overstated how the Hurricane is going to bury Trump on Sunday.

My first results on "Trump Climate Change" on Google:

Trump flatly denied that, even though he has called climate change a "hoax" repeatedly in the past. In a tweet from 2012, for example, Trump said that the "concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

Clinton will absolutely demolish him on this. With the extent of the horribleness of this storm, and this being in a Town Hall Format, he's not coming out of this.
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Clinton should absolutely not tie the hurricane in with climate change. She should attack him for being unprepared for leading responses
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
HylianTom said:
I wish.

I'd even take a Clinton '96 result, where we win a stretch state or two..

That was a fun night. So. Much. Salt.
Click to expand...

Here's what dreaming the dream looks like. Best case scenario.

IOuAoYn.jpg
 
N

nature boy

Member
Full story: 30 former GOP lawmakers sign anti-Trump letter

Though the letter makes no mention of Hillary Clinton, organizer Andrew Weintstein said some of the members will vote for the Democrat, while others will vote for Libertarian Gary Johnson or write in a candidate.

"Given the enormous power of the office, every candidate for president must be judged rigorously in assessing whether he or she has the competence, intelligence, knowledge, understanding, empathy, judgment, and temperament necessary to keep America on a safe and steady course," the lawmakers wrote. "Donald Trump fails on each of those measures, and he has proven himself manifestly unqualified to be president."
The letter was circulated by former Oklahoma Rep. Mickey Edwards and former Missouri Rep. Tom Coleman.

Many of the 30 signatories, including former New Hampshire Sen. Gordon Humphry and former Minnesota Rep. Vin Weber, have already been vocal in their opposition to Trump, but other members were expressing concerns for the first time publicly.
Signatories include influential former congressman from key battleground states -- Bill Clinger of Pennsylvania, Jim Leach of Iowa, Tom Petri of Wisconsin and G. William Whitehurst of Virginia.
Clinger also chaired the Government and Oversight Committee that investigated the Clintons for the Filegate and Travelgate issues.
...
Click to expand...
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Zukkoyaki said:
It may not be this area but I do know there's a notoriously conservative and pretty decently populated county in southeastern Wisconsin that legit votes like 85% republican that hasn't warmed up much to Trump. I wonder if this is where they're going.
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That makes sense. I've actually visited that area a fair amount. There are a decent amount of small lakes with vacation homes for the Chicago crowd.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
This is what the trump votes is about (and largely what many conservative votes have been about for the past 3 decades)

Our inability to really recognize this and desire to hide or mask it is so annoying.
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Who do you mean by "Our?"

Democrats, minorities, and most independents are well aware of what this is, and have been very vocal about it for longer than anyone on GAF has been alive.

It's only (overwhelmingly white) conservatives and republicans that deny this and pretend race has nothing to do with where their votes go. They're fooling only themselves there. They admit they're racist...ok, then what happens? Their voting patterns won't really change, and we've seen this take place this year- where a fairly decent chunk of the base is just saying "fuck it, its racist but i don't care, still voting Trump."
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Grief.exe said:
Reince and the GOP have to start focussing on their down ballot candidates that are floundering.
Click to expand...

Sunday will be make or break and honestly I don't see it doing them any good. I doubt anything changes and the next day Clinton is back on the campaign trail.
 
S

studyguy

Member
GOP next year is literally gonna be asked what they're gonna do post Trump and they'll be like...

"Who is Trump?"
"You voted for him overwhelmingly"
"Says who?"


Trump is absolutely going to be the candidate that never existed. Water off their backs. Gross.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
Grief.exe said:
Reince and the GOP have to start focussing on their down ballot candidates that are floundering.
Click to expand...

Trump's bump before this recent fall might have been a blessing in disguise. I think the GOP was on the verge of giving up on Trump a few weeks ago and focusing on the down ballot but they had a resurgence of hope. Now things like this may pop up again but too close to the election to react properly.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
studyguy said:
GOP next year is literally gonna be asked what they're gonna do post Trump and they'll be like...

"Who is Trump?"
"You voted for him overwhelmingly"
"Says who?"


Trump is absolutely going to be the candidate that never existed. Water off their backs. Gross.
Click to expand...

Yep. Those that voted for him this time will simply deny it and blame something else for getting blown out. Media bias, voter fraud, Trump being a clinton plant (I KEEP seeing this one from conservatives I know personally, one of which has a law degree) anything to avoid admitting that they lost because they've become the ignorant racist party.

I expect the party to take anti-trump measures to keep this from happening in the primary again, but you're still not getting anyone viable for 2020.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Felix Lighter said:
Trump's bump before this recent fall might have been a blessing in disguise. I think the GOP was on the verge of giving up on Trump a few weeks ago and focusing on the down ballot but they had a resurgence of hope. Now things like this may pop up again but too close to the election to react properly.
Click to expand...

The whiplash must be exhausting
 
C

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
RustyNails said:
Indiana is dominated by Republicans on every level, and the Republican party machine there is one of the best oiled in the country. Indiana is mostly a rural state and it mostly lost it's Democratic ties after Steel industry went belly up in Gary (birthplace of Michael Jackson) in the 80's. It's a ghost town now with poverty and unemployment. Indianapolis is a nice diverse city with growing businesses, but just like Atlanta cannot overcome the rest of the state's crazy. Iowa at least has blue collar workers, massive John Deere plants and offices and college towns for kids to attract.
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This is why I love PoliGAF. You guys educate the shit out of me.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
Manmademan said:
because then it shifts the argument to climate change conspiracies (which republicans believe in overwhelmingly, facts be damned) and away from Trump being a fuckup and unprepared for office- which IS a message that is getting through to them.
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While I agree in the context of this debate, I wish Democrats would feel more comfortable putting these disasters in the broader context of climate change. Climate change seems so opaque and distant to much of the country but natural disasters are something everyone on the east coast can relate to and understand. Constantly hammering the notion that this is only going to get worse if we do nothing would help make this issue more real for a lot of the country IMO.

Furthermore, I'd like to see climate change tied to most issues like immigration and global turmoil because the fact is that as the climate warms and natural disasters and droughts become more commonplace, all of the problems we are currently seeing and that the right is currently reacting to are going to be exacerbated. We need to get people to stop their siloed thinking on climate change (thinking it is only an energy issue) and get them to realize that climate change is one of the most wide reaching and damaging issues we have ever faced.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Felix Lighter said:
Trump's bump before this recent fall might have been a blessing in disguise. I think the GOP was on the verge of giving up on Trump a few weeks ago and focusing on the down ballot but they had a resurgence of hope. Now things like this may pop up again but too close to the election to react properly.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, it pushed back the pivot time to be too late.

Dubbedinenglish said:
Do they honestly have the funds to do that?
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They have some kind of revenue sharing the the Donald Trump campaign's fundraising.

It's more of a ideological shift than necessarily monetary.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Just goes to prove getting pneumonia and stumbling about was in actuality 39D Quantum Checkers by Clinton. Get the Trump base riled up so she could smash them against the rocks of policy at the debates. 726D TIC TAC TOE FAM
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Felix Lighter said:
Trump's bump before this recent fall might have been a blessing in disguise. I think the GOP was on the verge of giving up on Trump a few weeks ago and focusing on the down ballot but they had a resurgence of hope. Now things like this may pop up again but too close to the election to react properly.
Click to expand...
Word from inside GOP is that they are hoping feverishly for Trump to turn in an acceptable performance this Sunday. If not, they're going to ditch him and focus on Downballot only.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
We should all buy the RNC a gift package of bulk Lucky Charms and Bailey's the day after the election with a note saying "You tried your best."
 
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