excelsiorlef
Member
I mean they can and are doesnt mean they should.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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I mean they can and are doesnt mean they should.
A lot of people in here are lashing out against him and blaming him for Clinton's loss. It's very visible. Y'all are ok to lash out. It's understandable. But we need to spend more time honestly assessing this party instead of pushing Bernie away because we think he ruined Clinton's campaign.
He's an influential figure of the democratic party now, definitely not the leader, sorry.
Him or his supporters?
VendettaRed07
Member
Because they were mostly squashed by the primary result.
It is very unlikely Trump is able to flip the rust belt against him. The conversation would not have been like it was against Hillary, where all she did was play defense on issues like Trade, Wallstreet, Political donors and special interests.
We're lashing out to the "told you so" "shoulda voted Bernie" "its our party now" stuff.
Poodlestrike
Banned
No, him trying to do something about it destroys nearly all protections granted by the first amendment. Which, granted, I'm not saying he won't, but still.
True.
elvisaintdead
Member
Just found a CNN stream I could scroll back on to watch the last segment of Don Lemon's show. Apparently there's a KKK "victory rally" planned in North Carolina. The Trump supporter stated that it was a miniscule thing and that we shouldn't even be talking about it. She wasn't saying that the current protests in cities are miniscule, she was saying the KKK rally is miniscule and should be ignored.
I've said this before. As much hand-wringing as there is about "calling people racists", Trump supporters are incapable of having a substantive conversation about race because they have no real non-racist argument or defense of Trump. So they just want to ignore it. Hard to do when you've got 4 years to be the president of everybody.
I've said this before. As much hand-wringing as there is about "calling people racists", Trump supporters are incapable of having a substantive conversation about race because they have no real non-racist argument or defense of Trump. So they just want to ignore it. Hard to do when you've got 4 years to be the president of everybody.
A seven page new yorker article can also be propaganda, even if the writer is honest but misses/omits details that would cloud the narrative. What I'm asking is that ultimately facebook's problem or the individual's?
The protests prove that we're not taking it sitting down.
metalslimer
Member
Are we ignoring the probable counterintelligence campaign Russia would have initiated against Bernie as well?
Facebook has no legal responsibility, if that's what you're looking for.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Huh? I'm not following what your point is.
What do you mean "Squashed by the Primary Result"
as in, their feelings were hurt so they won't bother to turnout to the general election to vote for a Senate Candidate, that is basically Sanders, like Teachout?
Clinton's backers said that you need to vote for us because of how bad the other side is too. Worked out pretty well for us clearly.
Sarcasm aside, please don't do this. As hard as it may be for some to believe there was legitimately a group of people who thought Clinton would be a better president then Bernie. Bernie had some of his own faults during the campaign that turned us off, and to be blunt a lot of people now seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring this claiming it was all the DNC's fault.
For the record I'm not saying Clinton's camp doesn't deserve some blame as we clearly do, but to ignore Bernie's own faults will just create the same cult of personality some of his most ardent supporters claim we have now. I will vote Bernie if need be during 2020 because I am a pragmatist, and despite not liking him, realize what will be at stake come next election. But if this election has shown anything its that the democrats voters are a fickle bunch, and if they don't like the candidate enough will sit home. Realize the candidates flaws now and try to work on them. For instance, see why he didn't connect with minority groups and voters in the south and work to patch those. I say this not to be crude, but as a warning to not just make the same mistake we did with our candidate. Seriously, I just don't want this to happen again.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Trump was even more anti establishment than Bernie, though. Bernie is still a career politician. All of the same "why haven't you done anything to fix it?" line would have worked on him as well. Plus all of the candidates to Clnton's left lost by wider margins. There's no real evidence he would have performed any better in increasing democratic base turnout among the demographics that stayed home.
To add to this- it is enraging to hear this when many of Clinton's supporters voted for Obama in '08.
RustyNails
Member
Premonitions of the swamp getting deeper than ever, not getting drained
I'd tell anti-Donald protesters to stay at home and chill, because if this is an indication of how things will be 6 months from now, expect Donald's voters to come out with a lot more force
I'm so willing to bet all the "WHITE WORKING CLASS" dipshits tune out everything after their maga cult leader won. Anything from the media will be LIBRUL LIES. The truth can only come from dear leader.
Vestal
Junior Member
I don't think so. I had sworn off taking an active part in politics since I was 14 years old(son of a politician and my family was the target of party politics and media blitz that almost destroyed us) but this election changed my life. I will be taking an active part in politics for my two girls. Do whatever it takes to make their future better. My vote is simply not enough anymore.
IrishNinja
Member
really? OT Is insufferable with baseless "HE WOULD'VE WON"
Premonitions of the swamp getting deeper than ever, not getting drained
I'd tell anti-Donald protesters to stay at home and chill, because if this is an indication of how things will be 6 months from now, expect Donald's voters to come out with a lot more force
If Trump supporters demanded consistency they would have never voted for him. They'll just change their opinion and start liking these people.
UltimaPooh
Member
Comes with the territory. Dems will always have this infighting that we have because we're so diverse. It's always going to be hard to come together because it's the party for everyone while the GOP is pretty much the party of only one demo.
I don't think it's hate, it's just criticism that he isn't everyone's ideal candidate regardless of Hillary's loss.
I think Bernie could play great part for the DNC but his flaws keep him from being a truly good leader...
Poodlestrike
Banned
I hear you, man. I keep fantasizing about... um, I probably shouldn't say. It's fairly graphic.
But! Take solace in the vote count. Most Americans who voted voted AGAINST Donald Trump. By an increasingly impressive margin. This was a targeted failure, not a real shift or a repudiation of progress. This is still winnable.
I guess my comment mostly comes from what (admittedly little) I've seen on the media in the past two days. A lot of just letting surrogates say "It's time for unity the campaign is behind us" and anchors just let that slide like nothing of any importance happened during the campaign.
Oh wait... this sounds familiar. It's just like when they would let surrogates spew crap during the campaign.
Edit: And yeah, I think I'm with you Vestal. I never thought I would want to be involved with politics but now....I don't know.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
More like people who vote Democratic stay home.
hahaha, I thought I was alone in that regard. >.>
Exactly. Even polling shows that Trump was most effective not just when he was launching attacks at Clinton, but at Washington itself. Bernie would not have withstood that. Bernie is an establishment candidate against Trump. Every "Washington has done nothing for you" attack Trump lobbed would have hit Bernie too.
UltimaPooh
Member
I really think we should get off that train. Some of you still probably don't like him but I would probably stop discounting him as someone who can't lead.
Our bench is not in great shape now anyways.
I felt that way until it came out that trump got fewer votes for Romney and realized things would probably be totally different if the polls weren't so wrong. It went from "this country is not where I belong" to "this is the most unfortunate circumstance imaginable, but it's possible the people can mitigate the damage by creating as much friction as possible and come out strong in the other direction" (I think this outcome is possible but it will still be a tough uphill battle)
Nope, I too am having these thoughts. I don't think they're good thoughts, but I can't resist having them
American History X style
metalslimer
Member
We are only 60 years removed from mass murder all across the world and mass genocide. We are still a better people now. We are going to face a downturn and some tough times but we will make it through this and there were millions who did not vote for evil
When the final tally comes in he will probably have more than romney.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I just get so ANGRY, and I imagine these... scenarios, and my whole body tightens and I just want to... to get it out.
But yeah, no. Instead I'm sitting here on the internet talking to people who get it. Makes it better.
Tangent: I still say that there's room for gun control if we tie it to national defense.
Turnout is up compared to 2012, so the picture isn't clear yet.
VendettaRed07
Member
I can't remember where I read it but he said he only switched back because he ran as an independent and would run for re-election as a Democrat. He might not but I fully expect he will.
And If she was so vulnerable than that is her fault and would have been exposed anyway. And I don't think it's exactly a good idea to coddle candidates or be afraid of a heated Primary. Obama came out against Hillary unscathed. And for the most part, had Bernie won I'm not sure what Hillary used on him would have been an effective attack against him by republicans.
I think that she was under FBI investigation and routinely lied and gave incredibly unbelievable descriptions as to what happened or Comey's assessment of the investigation, or that she could not walk back her previous comments on trade or defend herself from her special interest ties in a convincing way. Her deplorable comments was devastating in that it gave the Trump campaign an out anytime she tried to accuse them of being the "hateful" campaign. She did way more to herself than anything Bernie said or did.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Obama came out unscathed because he didn't have 20 years of essentially baseless attacks weighing him down. Hell, Obama was maybe the cleanest candidate ever. If Bernie hadn't taken it to her and the DNC the way he did, I'm not sure anybody on the left would have. That's a critical vulnerability.
Hillary absolutely had issues of her own (though I'm not sure why you'd highlight the FBI stuff of all things since that's basically the definition of a partisan attack), but I remain unconvinced that Sanders giving support to those issues from the left didn't contribute.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
There's Nevada.
VendettaRed07
Member
We need a new strategy. We can't be looking at maps and thinking "welp, can't win any house/senate races there". Republicans don't do that in midterms. They can win regardless of whats available. Taking back the senate has to be the number 1 goal and they need to figure out whatever they have to do in order to do it.
The good thing is that there won't be a figure head that drags down candidates and hurts them to make their own positions on issues like guns/abortion
I'm interested in why facebook is morally responsible for curating news.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
The problem is the suggestion completely ignores that Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party and has given no indication that he intends to join at the expense of his Independent status.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
huh?
There are MILLIONS of votes yet to be counted, and that excludes 3rd party. McMuffin got like 20+% in Utah for example.
Edit: I think once it's all said and done, this will be a VERY clear example of how the electoral college can fuck you over badly.
I would suspect many calls of #NotMyPresident with Popular Vote being cited frequently.
metalslimer
Member
:/
Case in point to my previous two posts.
Anderson Cooper with Kellyanne making protests against Trump to be equivalent to what protests against Clinton would be, lock her up and all, had she won.
These are not equivalent. Fuck you Anderson.
I haven't visited this thread too much cause seeing so many Trump threads in OT is still overwhelming. I guess I still need more time to process everything. I have reached the point where I am ready to come out hard on Facebook, consequences of friends and family be damned. I have the right to my opinion and will not suppress my voice for fear of what others will think of me.
Anderson Cooper with Kellyanne making protests against Trump to be equivalent to what protests against Clinton would be, lock her up and all, had she won.
These are not equivalent. Fuck you Anderson.
I haven't visited this thread too much cause seeing so many Trump threads in OT is still overwhelming. I guess I still need more time to process everything. I have reached the point where I am ready to come out hard on Facebook, consequences of friends and family be damned. I have the right to my opinion and will not suppress my voice for fear of what others will think of me.
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