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[excelsiorlef]

Why is that facebook's problem though? As a private company they are similarly allowed to flood it with Breitbart. If that's what people want why shouldn't they?

How a person parses between propaganda and "objective news" is actually a fairly complex question. Why aren't these people informed?

I mean they can and are doesn’t mean they should.

 

[Cyanity]

Since people are replying to this.

Show me the proof of anti-Bernie sentiment.

A lot of people in here are lashing out against him and blaming him for Clinton's loss. It's very visible. Y'all are ok to lash out. It's understandable. But we need to spend more time honestly assessing this party instead of pushing Bernie away because we think he ruined Clinton's campaign.

I'm not anti Bernie. I object to the idea that he is now the leader of democratic party.

He's an influential figure of the democratic party now, definitely not the leader, sorry.

 

[Totakeke]

A lot of people in here are lashing out against him and blaming him for Clinton's loss. It's very visible. Y'all are ok to lash out. It's understandable. But we need to spend more time honestly assessing this party instead of pushing Bernie away because we think he ruined Clinton's campaign.

Him or his supporters?

 

[VendettaRed07]

If his supporters would not come out to vote for at least Teachout or Feingold, what makes you think they will moving forward for anything else?

Because they were mostly squashed by the primary result.

It is very unlikely Trump is able to flip the rust belt against him. The conversation would not have been like it was against Hillary, where all she did was play defense on issues like Trade, Wallstreet, Political donors and special interests.

 

[kirblar]

A lot of people in here are lashing out against him and blaming him for Clinton's loss. It's very visible. Y'all are ok to lash out. It's understandable. But we need to spend more time honestly assessing this party instead of pushing Bernie away because we think he ruined Clinton's campaign.

We're lashing out to the "told you so" "shoulda voted Bernie" "its our party now" stuff.

 

[Syncytia]

So... everyone is just going to take sitting down all of this "the campaign is over, it's time to unite" crap? Their platform was built of racism, xenophobia, etc. Don't let people forget that.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It also fundamentally destroys nearly all protections granted by the first amendment.

No, him trying to do something about it destroys nearly all protections granted by the first amendment. Which, granted, I'm not saying he won't, but still.

Then again, he whined his way through the primary and general, and people ate it up.

True.

 

[elvisaintdead]

Just found a CNN stream I could scroll back on to watch the last segment of Don Lemon's show. Apparently there's a KKK "victory rally" planned in North Carolina. The Trump supporter stated that it was a miniscule thing and that we shouldn't even be talking about it. She wasn't saying that the current protests in cities are miniscule, she was saying the KKK rally is miniscule and should be ignored.

I've said this before. As much hand-wringing as there is about "calling people racists", Trump supporters are incapable of having a substantive conversation about race because they have no real non-racist argument or defense of Trump. So they just want to ignore it. Hard to do when you've got 4 years to be the president of everybody.

 

[East Lake]

Because they live in propaganda.

A seven page new yorker article can also be propaganda, even if the writer is honest but misses/omits details that would cloud the narrative. What I'm asking is that ultimately facebook's problem or the individual's?

 

[Cyanity]

So... everyone is just going to take sitting down all of this "the campaign is over, it's time to unite" crap? Their platform was built of racism, xenophobia, etc. Don't let people forget that.

The protests prove that we're not taking it sitting down.

 

[metalslimer]

Are we ignoring the probable counterintelligence campaign Russia would have initiated against Bernie as well?

 

[Totakeke]

A seven page new yorker article can also be propaganda, even if the writer is honest but misses/omits details that would cloud the narrative. What I'm asking is that ultimately facebook's problem or the individual's?

Facebook has no legal responsibility, if that's what you're looking for.

 

[Suikoguy]

Because they were mostly squashed by the primary result.

It is very unlikely Trump is able to flip the rust belt against him. The conversation would not have been like it was against Hillary, where all she did was play defense on issues like Trade, Wallstreet, Political donors and special interests.

Huh? I'm not following what your point is.

What do you mean "Squashed by the Primary Result"
as in, their feelings were hurt so they won't bother to turnout to the general election to vote for a Senate Candidate, that is basically Sanders, like Teachout?

 

[Kid Heart]

The anti Bernie sentiment right now is insane. He's the voice of the democratic party now. Deal with, and work with it, or doom the democratic party to only winning elections during recessions.

Clinton's backers said that you need to vote for us because of how bad the other side is too. Worked out pretty well for us clearly.

Sarcasm aside, please don't do this. As hard as it may be for some to believe there was legitimately a group of people who thought Clinton would be a better president then Bernie. Bernie had some of his own faults during the campaign that turned us off, and to be blunt a lot of people now seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring this claiming it was all the DNC's fault.

For the record I'm not saying Clinton's camp doesn't deserve some blame as we clearly do, but to ignore Bernie's own faults will just create the same cult of personality some of his most ardent supporters claim we have now. I will vote Bernie if need be during 2020 because I am a pragmatist, and despite not liking him, realize what will be at stake come next election. But if this election has shown anything its that the democrats voters are a fickle bunch, and if they don't like the candidate enough will sit home. Realize the candidates flaws now and try to work on them. For instance, see why he didn't connect with minority groups and voters in the south and work to patch those. I say this not to be crude, but as a warning to not just make the same mistake we did with our candidate. Seriously, I just don't want this to happen again.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Because they were mostly squashed by the primary result.

It is very unlikely Trump is able to flip the rust belt against him. The conversation would not have been like it was against Hillary, where all she did was play defense on issues like Trade, Wallstreet, Political donors and special interests.

Trump was even more anti establishment than Bernie, though. Bernie is still a career politician. All of the same "why haven't you done anything to fix it?" line would have worked on him as well. Plus all of the candidates to Clnton's left lost by wider margins. There's no real evidence he would have performed any better in increasing democratic base turnout among the demographics that stayed home.

 

[kirblar]

Clinton's backers said that you need to vote for us because of how bad the other side is too. Worked out pretty well for us clearly.

Sarcasm aside, please don't do this. As hard as it may be for some to believe there was legitimately a group of people who thought Clinton would be a better president then Bernie. Bernie had some of his own faults during the campaign that turned us off, and to be blunt a lot of people now seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring this claiming it was all the DNC's fault.

For the record I'm not saying Clinton's camp doesn't deserve some blame as we clearly do, but to ignore Bernie's own faults will just create the same cult of personality some of his most ardent supporters claim we have now. I will vote Bernie if need be during 2020 because I am a pragmatist, and despite not liking him, realize what will be at stake come next election. But if this election has shown anything its that the democrats voters are a fickle bunch, and if they don't like the candidate enough will sit home. Realize the candidates flaws now and try to work on them. For instance, see why he didn't connect with minority groups and voters in the south and work to patch those. I say this not to be crude, but as a warning to not just make the same mistake we did with our candidate. Seriously, I just don't want this to happen again.

To add to this- it is enraging to hear this when many of Clinton's supporters voted for Obama in '08.

 

[RustyNails]

Premonitions of the swamp getting deeper than ever, not getting drained

I'd tell anti-Donald protesters to stay at home and chill, because if this is an indication of how things will be 6 months from now, expect Donald's voters to come out with a lot more force

I'm so willing to bet all the "WHITE WORKING CLASS" dipshits tune out everything after their maga cult leader won. Anything from the media will be LIBRUL LIES. The truth can only come from dear leader.

 

[kess]

Honestly, if we're going to nominate old white dudes, I'd vote Jerry Brown over any of these also-rans

 

[Vestal]

So... everyone is just going to take sitting down all of this "the campaign is over, it's time to unite" crap? Their platform was built of racism, xenophobia, etc. Don't let people forget that.

I don't think so. I had sworn off taking an active part in politics since I was 14 years old(son of a politician and my family was the target of party politics and media blitz that almost destroyed us) but this election changed my life. I will be taking an active part in politics for my two girls. Do whatever it takes to make their future better. My vote is simply not enough anymore.

 

[ampere]

I want to scream again

How the fuck did this happen

Why why why why why why

All of our work, all of our progress

I wanted to believe that people are good in general, but I think that's wrong. I think people are evil

 

[IrishNinja]

The anti Bernie sentiment right now is insane. He's the voice of the democratic party now. Deal with, and work with it, or doom the democratic party to only winning elections during recessions.

really? OT Is insufferable with baseless "HE WOULD'VE WON"

 

[JP_]

Premonitions of the swamp getting deeper than ever, not getting drained

I'd tell anti-Donald protesters to stay at home and chill, because if this is an indication of how things will be 6 months from now, expect Donald's voters to come out with a lot more force

If Trump supporters demanded consistency they would have never voted for him. They'll just change their opinion and start liking these people.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Clinton's backers said that you need to vote for us because of how bad the other side is too. Worked out pretty well for us clearly.

Sarcasm aside, please don't do this. As hard as it may be for some to believe there was legitimately a group of people who thought Clinton would be a better president then Bernie. Bernie had some of his own faults during the campaign that turned us off, and to be blunt a lot of people now seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring this claiming it was all the DNC's fault.

For the record I'm not saying Clinton's camp doesn't deserve some blame as we clearly do, but to ignore Bernie's own faults will just create the same cult of personality some of his most ardent supporters claim we have now. I will vote Bernie if need be during 2020 because I am a pragmatist, and despite not liking him, realize what will be at stake come next election. But if this election has shown anything its that the democrats voters are a fickle bunch, and if they don't like the candidate enough will sit home. Realize the candidates flaws now and try to work on them. For instance, see why he didn't connect with minority groups and voters in the south and work to patch those. I say this not to be crude, but as a warning to not just make the same mistake we did with our candidate. Seriously, I just don't want this to happen again.

Comes with the territory. Dems will always have this infighting that we have because we're so diverse. It's always going to be hard to come together because it's the party for everyone while the GOP is pretty much the party of only one demo.

 

[Debirudog]

He will be in 2018.

I can't believe we are still hating on him. He wasn't right about his approach with everything and he went to far in some cases but my god. You'd think after the gaf bubble burst in the worst and most devastating way we'd get an ounce of self reflection.

I don't think it's hate, it's just criticism that he isn't everyone's ideal candidate regardless of Hillary's loss.

I think Bernie could play great part for the DNC but his flaws keep him from being a truly good leader...

 

[Poodlestrike]

I want to scream again

How the fuck did this happen

Why why why why why why

All of our work, all of our progress

I wanted to believe that people are good in general, but I think that's wrong. I think people are evil

I hear you, man. I keep fantasizing about... um, I probably shouldn't say. It's fairly graphic.

But! Take solace in the vote count. Most Americans who voted voted AGAINST Donald Trump. By an increasingly impressive margin. This was a targeted failure, not a real shift or a repudiation of progress. This is still winnable.

 

[Syncytia]

The protests prove that we're not taking it sitting down.

I don't think so. I had sworn off taking an active part in politics since I was 14 years old(son of a politician and my family was the target of party politics and media blitz that almost destroyed us) but this election changed my life. I will be taking an active part in politics for my two girls. Do whatever it takes to make their future better. My vote is simply not enough anymore.

I guess my comment mostly comes from what (admittedly little) I've seen on the media in the past two days. A lot of just letting surrogates say "It's time for unity the campaign is behind us" and anchors just let that slide like nothing of any importance happened during the campaign.

Oh wait... this sounds familiar. It's just like when they would let surrogates spew crap during the campaign.

Edit: And yeah, I think I'm with you Vestal. I never thought I would want to be involved with politics but now....I don't know.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I want to scream again

How the fuck did this happen

Why why why why why why

All of our work, all of our progress

I wanted to believe that people are good in general, but I think that's wrong. I think people are evil

More like people who vote Democratic stay home.

 

[Debirudog]

I hear you, man. I keep fantasizing about... um, I probably shouldn't say. It's fairly graphic.

hahaha, I thought I was alone in that regard. >.>

 

[kess]

I want to scream again

How the fuck did this happen

Why why why why why why

All of our work, all of our progress

I wanted to believe that people are good in general, but I think that's wrong. I think people are evil

 

[Loudninja]

Ok why are people now trying to pretend that she did not have may obstacles in her way?

Oh she is sick,oh emails,oh Clinton foundation,oh FBi it went on and on.

 

[royalan]

Trump was even more anti establishment than Bernie, though. Bernie is still a career politician. All of the same "why haven't you done anything to fix it?" line would have worked on him as well. Plus all of the candidates to Clnton's left lost by wider margins. There's no real evidence he would have performed any better in increasing democratic base turnout among the demographics that stayed home.

Exactly. Even polling shows that Trump was most effective not just when he was launching attacks at Clinton, but at Washington itself. Bernie would not have withstood that. Bernie is an establishment candidate against Trump. Every "Washington has done nothing for you" attack Trump lobbed would have hit Bernie too.

 

[UltimaPooh]

I don't think it's hate, it's just criticism that he isn't everyone's ideal candidate regardless of Hillary's loss.

I think Bernie could play great part for the DNC but his flaws keep him from being a truly good leader...

I really think we should get off that train. Some of you still probably don't like him but I would probably stop discounting him as someone who can't lead.

Our bench is not in great shape now anyways.

 

[JP_]

I want to scream again

How the fuck did this happen

Why why why why why why

All of our work, all of our progress

I wanted to believe that people are good in general, but I think that's wrong. I think people are evil

I felt that way until it came out that trump got fewer votes for Romney and realized things would probably be totally different if the polls weren't so wrong. It went from "this country is not where I belong" to "this is the most unfortunate circumstance imaginable, but it's possible the people can mitigate the damage by creating as much friction as possible and come out strong in the other direction" (I think this outcome is possible but it will still be a tough uphill battle)

 

[ampere]

I keep fantasizing about... um, I probably shouldn't say. It's fairly graphic.

hahaha, I thought I was alone in that regard. >.>

Nope, I too am having these thoughts. I don't think they're good thoughts, but I can't resist having them

American History X style

 

[metalslimer]

I want to scream again

How the fuck did this happen

Why why why why why why

All of our work, all of our progress

I wanted to believe that people are good in general, but I think that's wrong. I think people are evil

We are only 60 years removed from mass murder all across the world and mass genocide. We are still a better people now. We are going to face a downturn and some tough times but we will make it through this and there were millions who did not vote for evil

I felt that way until it came out that trump got fewer votes for Romney and realized things would probably be totally different if the polls weren't so wrong. It went from "this country is not where I belong" to "this is the most unfortunate circumstance imaginable, but it's possible the people can mitigate the damage by creating as much friction as possible and come out strong in the other direction"

When the final tally comes in he will probably have more than romney.

 

[Poodlestrike]

hahaha, I thought I was alone in that regard. >.>

I just get so ANGRY, and I imagine these... scenarios, and my whole body tightens and I just want to... to get it out.

But yeah, no. Instead I'm sitting here on the internet talking to people who get it. Makes it better.

Tangent: I still say that there's room for gun control if we tie it to national defense.

 

[Totakeke]

More like people who vote Democratic stay home.

Turnout is up compared to 2012, so the picture isn't clear yet.

 

[Holmes]

Democrats should pick up a lot of governor seats in 2018. There are not any pickup opportunities in 2018 for the Senate but defending what we have would be good.

 

[VendettaRed07]

As to the first: sauce, plz

As to the second, we have plenty of self reflection. What I'm reflecting on is that D turnout dropped the hardest in states Bernie either performed strongly in or outright overperformed, barring the Northeast. I find that interesting. In the south, we got beat out by shockingly high Republican turnout. But in the Rust Belt, we collapsed. How much of that was because Bernie legitimized the Republican attacks in the eyes of Democratic voters? We lost by 30k votes in MI. I'm not saying that Bernie lost us the election, but for crying out loud, THAT'S NOT A LOT OF VOTES.

I can't remember where I read it but he said he only switched back because he ran as an independent and would run for re-election as a Democrat. He might not but I fully expect he will.

And If she was so vulnerable than that is her fault and would have been exposed anyway. And I don't think it's exactly a good idea to coddle candidates or be afraid of a heated Primary. Obama came out against Hillary unscathed. And for the most part, had Bernie won I'm not sure what Hillary used on him would have been an effective attack against him by republicans.

I think that she was under FBI investigation and routinely lied and gave incredibly unbelievable descriptions as to what happened or Comey's assessment of the investigation, or that she could not walk back her previous comments on trade or defend herself from her special interest ties in a convincing way. Her deplorable comments was devastating in that it gave the Trump campaign an out anytime she tried to accuse them of being the "hateful" campaign. She did way more to herself than anything Bernie said or did.

 

[JP_]

Turnout is up compared to 2012, so the picture isn't clear yet.

huh?

 

[Poodlestrike]

I can't remember where I read it but he said he only switched back because he ran as an independent and would run for re-election as a Democrat. He might not but I fully expect he will.

And If she was so vulnerable than that is her fault and would have been exposed anyway. And I don't think it's exactly a good idea to coddle candidates or be afraid of a heated Primary. Obama came out against Hillary unscathed. And for the most part, had Bernie won I'm not sure what Hillary used on him would have been an effective attack against him by republicans.

I think that she was under FBI investigation and routinely lied and gave incredibly unbelievable descriptions as to what happened or Comey's assessment of the investigation, or that she could not walk back her previous comments on trade or defend herself from her special interest ties in a convincing way. Her deplorable comments was devastating in that it gave the Trump campaign an out anytime she tried to accuse them of being the "hateful" campaign. She did way more to herself than anything Bernie said or did.

Obama came out unscathed because he didn't have 20 years of essentially baseless attacks weighing him down. Hell, Obama was maybe the cleanest candidate ever. If Bernie hadn't taken it to her and the DNC the way he did, I'm not sure anybody on the left would have. That's a critical vulnerability.

Hillary absolutely had issues of her own (though I'm not sure why you'd highlight the FBI stuff of all things since that's basically the definition of a partisan attack), but I remain unconvinced that Sanders giving support to those issues from the left didn't contribute.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Democrats should pick up a lot of governor seats in 2018. There are not any pickup opportunities in 2018 for the Senate but defending what we have would be good.

There's Nevada.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Democrats should pick up a lot of governor seats in 2018. There are not any pickup opportunities in 2018 for the Senate but defending what we have would be good.

We need a new strategy. We can't be looking at maps and thinking "welp, can't win any house/senate races there". Republicans don't do that in midterms. They can win regardless of whats available. Taking back the senate has to be the number 1 goal and they need to figure out whatever they have to do in order to do it.

The good thing is that there won't be a figure head that drags down candidates and hurts them to make their own positions on issues like guns/abortion

 

[East Lake]

Facebook has no legal responsibility, if that's what you're looking for.

I'm interested in why facebook is morally responsible for curating news.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I really think we should get off that train. Some of you still probably don't like him but I would probably stop discounting him as someone who can't lead.

Our bench is not in great shape now anyways.

The problem is the suggestion completely ignores that Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party and has given no indication that he intends to join at the expense of his Independent status.

 

[Suikoguy]

huh?

There are MILLIONS of votes yet to be counted, and that excludes 3rd party. McMuffin got like 20+% in Utah for example.

Edit: I think once it's all said and done, this will be a VERY clear example of how the electoral college can fuck you over badly.
I would suspect many calls of #NotMyPresident with Popular Vote being cited frequently.

 

[metalslimer]

huh?

They aren't done counting. Turnout was up. Trump flipped democratic voters.

 

[Totakeke]

huh?

 

[HTupolev]

:/

 

[Syncytia]

Case in point to my previous two posts.

Anderson Cooper with Kellyanne making protests against Trump to be equivalent to what protests against Clinton would be, lock her up and all, had she won.

These are not equivalent. Fuck you Anderson.

I haven't visited this thread too much cause seeing so many Trump threads in OT is still overwhelming. I guess I still need more time to process everything. I have reached the point where I am ready to come out hard on Facebook, consequences of friends and family be damned. I have the right to my opinion and will not suppress my voice for fear of what others will think of me.