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[Plinko]

Sure, this is just a different viewpoint. I expect people to elevate themselves in time of crisis, not sink down to their lowest levels. Is it pointless? Maybe, but trying (and also failing) is the point. We should praise people who attempt that, not asking why they are not fitting more into their social norms.

I can see your point of view for sure.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard's political career is built on the back of anti-gay stances and Republican money that she inherited from her father in a dynastic fashion and at one point had a shell nonprofit. Liberal Tulsi Gabbard has some disturbing stances on Islam. How did liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard become a liberal icon?

She endorsed Bernie Sanders for president

 

[kingkitty]

JFC, is there any obvious presidential contender on the Democratic side for 2020? Beside a 78 year old Bernie Sanders?

Not even Trump was an unknown. Literally, he's been running for President since the late 80s and The Simpsons predicted he could be President (I know it was a joke, but, shows Trump wasn't exactly a surprise).

But I honestly have a hard time finding an obvious candidate. Maybe Elizabeth Warren, who would be slightly older than Hillary was this year but younger than Bernie.

Amy Klobuchar?

Kamala, Gillibrand, Tammy, Chafee

I reckon we'll have quite a few people running in the 2020 primary.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

They are not the same. I'm not talking about the sheer numbers, but the genocide that took place under Modi's watch. The systematic stand-down of state government as the minorities literally got butchered and burned. Modi was found not complicit but the damage is done.

between the 8th and 27th of August 2014, 2,100 Palestinians were killed by Israeli soldiers, under the direct instruction of Netanyahu. The UN's official investigation found that 1,462 were civilians. Stateless civilians, denied territories and rights, killed by the soldiers of a state that starves them when it isn't shooting them, under the direct order of a US allied government.

Meanwhile, in 2002, over the course of a month, 790 Muslim Indians were killed during riots by Hindu civilians, with the state government arguably unable but potentially unwilling to do anything, with Modi linked indirectly and with the evidence unclear.

I think Modi probably was responsible. But even if you add that in, I know which of these probably hangs lower on the moral balances, and it's Israel, and support for Israel.

So if your baseline standard for a Democratic nominee is: doesn't support the murder of Muslims in allied territories, well, there's actually very few potential Democratic nominees you can support. Durbin 2020, perhaps? If you are willing to admit some, simply for lack of candidates and having to pick the best of a bad bunch, Gabbard just isn't that near to the bottom of the pack

 

[Maledict]

Tulsi Gabbard is an islamaphobic homophobe. the idea that she is any part of the parties future just because she kicked up a fuss in the primaries is really worrying to me.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard's political career is built on the back of anti-gay stances and Republican money that she inherited from her father in a dynastic fashion and at one point had a shell nonprofit. Liberal Tulsi Gabbard has some disturbing stances on Islam. How did liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard become a liberal icon?

I didn't know about the shell nonprofit. Do you have the details?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Kamala Harris, Tammy Duckworth, Sherrod Brown and Catherine Cortez Masto are the frontrunners for the nomination right now, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Kamala, Gillibrand, Tammy, Chafee
I reckon we'll have quite a few people running in the 2020 primary.

lolololol whaaaaat? In what world?

I don't think either of our Tammy's are good picks either, America is better about LGBT but I don't think I see them electing a lesbian yet.

It's way too early to tell on any of this though.

 

[Plinko]

All of these names and none of them bring any excitement at all. The democrats need to start grooming a celebrity ASAP to run against Trump. I hate to say it, but that's where we are in this world.

 

[sphagnum]

Liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard's political career is built on the back of anti-gay stances and Republican money that she inherited from her father in a dynastic fashion and at one point had a shell nonprofit. Liberal Tulsi Gabbard has some disturbing stances on Islam. How did liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard become a liberal icon?

You know, I hate to say it, but I honestly think that outside of the Sanders endorsement a lot of people just like her because she's good looking.

 

[Gruco]

Liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard's political career is built on the back of anti-gay stances and Republican money that she inherited from her father in a dynastic fashion and at one point had a shell nonprofit. Liberal Tulsi Gabbard has some disturbing stances on Islam. How did liberal icon Tulsi Gabbard become a liberal icon?

Inversely to how Howard Dean because a milquetoast liberal sellout.

 

[Joeytj]

Kamala, Gillibrand, Tammy, Chafee

I reckon we'll have quite a few people running in the 2020 primary.

I'm not a fan of Gillibrand, if anything because she's too much of an insider like Hillary (not that I care, but, you know, there's a new political reality).

Tammy might be an inspired choice, but she's now going to have a rough reelection fight in 2018, unless Trump is already massively unpopular by then and she doesn't have to worry about it.

 

[Ray Down]

Message from Obama:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWWJR_UOQo&feature=youtu.be&t=8m6s

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

All of these names and none of them bring any excitement at all. The democrats need to start grooming a celebrity ASAP to run against Trump. I hate to say it, but that's where we are in this world.

That's because Harris, Duckworth, and Masto were literally just elected.

Harris and Masto are attorney generals from California and Nevada, that's not a way to get profile.

(I think it goes Harris > Brown > Duckworth > Cortez Masto as of now, but it's 3.5 years away...)

 

[kingkitty]

I'm not a fan of Gillibrand, if anything because she's too much of an insider like Hillary (not that I care, but, you know, there's a new political reality).

Tammy might be an inspired choice, but she's now going to have a rough reelection fight in 2018, unless Trump is already massively unpopular by then and she doesn't have to worry about it.

By Tammy I meant Tammy Duckworth, whose next election will be 2022.

#kamaladuckworth2020

or #duckworthkamala2020

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Kamala Harris, Tammy Duckworth, Sherrod Brown and Catherine Cortez Masto are the frontrunners for the nomination right now, we'll see how it goes.

Harris is too coastal and metropolitan to stand a chance. She'll struggle to connect with the Rust Belt.

Duckworth and Brown, I think, are both contenders. Especially Duckworth, actually.

 

[Plinko]

That's because Harris, Duckworth, and Masto were literally just elected.

Harris and Masto are attorney generals from California and Nevada, that's not a way to get profile.

(I think it goes Harris > Brown > Duckworth > Cortez Masto as of now, but it's 3.5 years away...)

Even so. I'm all in with a Cuban/DiCaprio/Winfrey candidate in 2020. I still think it is the only shot democrats have.

I think people overrate Kamala's chances at this point.

 

[whyamihere]

You guys all mean Tammy Duckworth, not Tammy Baldwin, right?

 

[BiggNife]

Even so. I'm all in with a Cuban/DiCaprio/Winfrey candidate in 2020. I still think it is the only shot democrats have.

Ehh. I feel like this would be fair to say if Trump won in a landslide, but he didn't.

I don't think we need a celebrity to win the white house. We need someone who is reasonably charismatic, can appeal to the working class, and doesn't have 30 years of baggage.

(For the record I still think Kander would be a great choice but I know that his lack of experience is a sticking point for a lot of people here)

 

[Debirudog]

You know, I hate to say it, but I honestly think that outside of the Sanders endorsement a lot of people just like her because she's good looking.

I said it earlier and I don't feel bad for saying it.

 

[whyamihere]

Message from Obama:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWWJR_UOQo&feature=youtu.be&t=8m6s

lol what a flattering picture they used.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You guys all mean Tammy Duckworth, not Tammy Baldwin, right?

I mean Duckworth, yes. I'd have her as a quiet favourite, I think, although I've done very little looking into Cortez Masto.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Harris is too coastal and metropolitan to stand a chance. She'll struggle to connect with the Rust Belt.

You might be right here, but I think it honestly depends on how she can do in Iowa. If she can retail politic her way into success there I think there's a reasonable argument that she can do well in Wisconsin/Michigan. She's also black and doesn't have a record, which means she won't have any superpredator-type comments (that I'm aware of) so I expect her minority performance will be closer to Obama than Hillary.

Klobuchar is a potentially strong pick unless she has baggage that I'm not aware of. Seems really popular in Minnesota, which can give her that same appeal to the region as Brown.

 

[Odrion]

while putting up fliers I came across this on numerous bulletin boards:

fuck

 

[SerAardvark]

I didn't know about the shell nonprofit. Do you have the details?

I was curious too, and found this Dailykos piece from a few years ago which outlines concerns about Gabbard's affiliations and stances.

It includes a link to this Honolulu Star-Advertiser article which describes the non-profit complaints as follows:

A tax-exempt charitable organization co-founded by Tulsi Gabbard Tamayo has been promoting her campaign for City Council on its website, prompting other candidates in the race to cry foul.

The nonprofit Stand Up for America was founded by Tamayo and her father, state Sen. Mike Gabbard, after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to promote patriotism and America’s unity as "one nation under God." It is exempt from paying income taxes and may receive tax-deductible contributions as a charitable organization under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Service code.

Such nonprofits may not endorse political candidates. Since mid-July, Stand Up For America’s website has featured a news release from the Tamayo campaign announcing her candidacy, highlighting her "record of proven leadership," and including quotations from Tamayo and a link to VoteTulsi.com, her campaign website.

Tamayo is vice president of the nonprofit and her father is its president. Contacted Friday, Tamayo said she didn’t realize the news release and campaign link were on the nonprofit’s website.

Later DailyKos quotes Non Profit Quarterly:

But does Stand Up have a purpose other than promoting Tamayo? The organization exists, formally, to promote patriotism and "America's unity as 'one nation under God.'" But it hasn't done anything since a 2007 lecture series it sponsored and a 2005 "Raise a Purple Finger for Freedom" campaign in solidarity with Iraq's first national democratic elections. It took in less than the required minimum in 2009 to necessitate a full Form 990 filing. It may be virtually nonexistent, but the SUFA website contains a long, effusive paean to Tulsi Tamayo that does a great job in describing her many wonderful qualities, but seems to have little connection to any charitable purpose of the organization. Sorry, but the Tamayo explanation doesn't ring true. The organization appears to be little more than a vehicle for whatever Gabbard and Tamayo want to say and do, which appears at the moment mostly to be concerned with Tamayo's political future. And that's not a convincingly 501(c)(3) purpose.

 

[RustyNails]

between the 8th and 27th of August 2014, 2,100 Palestinians were killed by Israeli soldiers, under the direct instruction of Netanyahu. The UN's official investigation found that 1,462 were civilians. Stateless civilians, denied territories and rights, killed by the soldiers of a state that starves them when it isn't shooting them, under the direct order of a US allied government.

Meanwhile, in 2002, over the course of a month, 790 Muslim Indians were killed during riots by Hindu civilians, with the state government arguably unable but potentially unwilling to do anything, with Modi linked indirectly and with the evidence unclear.

I think Modi probably was responsible. But even if you add that in, I know which of these probably hangs lower on the moral balances, and it's Israel, and support for Israel.

So if your baseline standard for a Democratic nominee is: doesn't support the murder of Muslims in their territories, well, there's actually very few potential Democratic nominees you can support. Durbin 2020, perhaps? If you are willing to admit some, simply for lack of candidates and having to pick the best of a bad bunch, Gabbard just isn't that near to the bottom of the pack

See you can twist Netanyahu stuff to not resemble targeted killing under the guise of military operations. Gujarat genocide is a clear cut systemized elimination of Muslims. Also there's been lot more than 790 ~ close to 2000. That's not counting the destruction of mosques, businesses and homes. Like I said, systematic elimination.

I think both are horrendous, but only one had a clear genocide happen under its leadership. Case in point: Netanyahu was never denied a US visa. Modi was continuously denied a US visa based on his record in Gujarat until he become the PM and achieved diplomatic immunity. An average Muslim hates both AIPAC, Israel and Modi. American Muslims have learned that being friendly with AIPAC is part of election process in US. But there's absolutely nothing to gain by being chummy with Modi. But the real question is are you displaying the hateful neocon bullshit about using specific terms just to piss off Muslims further?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I was curious too, and found this Dailykos piece from a few years ago which outlines concerns about Gabbard's affiliations and stances.

It includes a link to this Honolulu Star-Advertiser article which describes the non-profit complaints as follows:

That's pretty shady, fair enough.

 

[whyamihere]

I mean Duckworth, yes. I'd have her as a quiet favourite, I think, although I've done very little looking into Cortez Masto.

She's good. I like Cortez Masto a lot. She's definitely come into her own over this campaign.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That's pretty shady, fair enough.

Almost like people know things....


I mean with all do respect you didn't even know her before judging everyone else.

Tulsi Gabbard is a name only because she endorsed Sanders... that's it and that's all anyone in her favor cares about.

There's a reason people are cool with Ellison and not Gabbard.

 

[Argyle]

The first I think is a result of political self-interest. Indian Americans are a pretty big voting bloc in Hawaii and were responsible for Gabbard's enormous upset of the local party favourite;

I have no real strong opinion on the rest of your post but I am not sure this is accurate, as of the 2010 census, only 2,201 people in Hawaii identified as Asian Indian.

http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

If they are such a big voting bloc, where the hell are they? The community is only big enough to sustain like...2 restaurants. I have to make my own Indian food for the most part

 

[Debirudog]

Wasn't Obama also a city man.

Granted, he spent a good part of his childhood in Kansas but I don't feel like Kamala's weakness is that much of a problem.

 

[Jeels]

between the 8th and 27th of August 2014, 2,100 Palestinians were killed by Israeli soldiers, under the direct instruction of Netanyahu. The UN's official investigation found that 1,462 were civilians. Stateless civilians, denied territories and rights, killed by the soldiers of a state that starves them when it isn't shooting them, under the direct order of a US allied government.

Meanwhile, in 2002, over the course of a month, 790 Muslim Indians were killed during riots by Hindu civilians, with the state government arguably unable but potentially unwilling to do anything, with Modi linked indirectly and with the evidence unclear.

I think Modi probably was responsible. But even if you add that in, I know which of these probably hangs lower on the moral balances, and it's Israel, and support for Israel.

So if your baseline standard for a Democratic nominee is: doesn't support the murder of Muslims in allied territories, well, there's actually very few potential Democratic nominees you can support. Durbin 2020, perhaps? If you are willing to admit some, simply for lack of candidates and having to pick the best of a bad bunch, Gabbard just isn't that near to the bottom of the pack

The difference is easy. You can't get anywhere in the US without support from AIPAC, it is one of the biggest lobbying bodies in the US. Muslim Americans realize this. Muslim Americans have also become increasingly more practical in terms of wanting to affect change. They are also a diverse group (making up natural born Americans, white converts, and immigrants from Asia and Africa). The Muslim American political block does not represent a single country abroad. Not Pakistan or India. Not Palestine or Saudi. Not Kenya or Sudan. They represent the Muslim American minority in America.

Beyond this, you can be a pro Israel candidate without saying things that upset the Muslim community. Similarly you can also be Hindu or Indian and not say things that upset the Muslim community. There are lots of Indian Americans who come to the defense of their Muslim brothers and sisters, just like there are a lot of Muslim Americans who come to the defense of their unfairly attacked Sikh and Hindu brothers and sisters.

Gabbard is unapologetically pro India to the point where she is publically attacking Pakistan, something Indian politicians (IN INDIA) do quite frequently but has no place for a US politician. She then goes on to do Islamophobic things and siding with the other side and AGAINST the sitting US President of her own party.

Being a shill for India does not serve the interests of the American people in any way.

American Jewish and American Muslim groups frequently work together because there is a lot of overlap between anti semtisim and Islamophobia. Just this week: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...muslim-jewish-advisory-council-300362171.html Point being, you can be Pro Israel or India without being Anti Muslim

And also your entire posts is just off putting, an innocent death is an innocent death. Not here to debate numbers...

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Even so. I'm all in with a Cuban/DiCaprio/Winfrey candidate in 2020. I still think it is the only shot democrats have.

I think people overrate Kamala's chances at this point.

Why do you believe this? I'm genuinely curious. There's all type of stuff Trump can do to increase his 2020 chances, but if you believe he'll be a terrible president then you have to also believe democrats can defeat him with the right candidate. I just don't understand the doom and gloom. Pick a better candidate who wants to work for it. All you can control is the candidate you pick and the message...we can't control outside factors (what if Trump starts a war, Kobach as AG, etc).

I don't think Harris will run in 2020 but the idea of a successful former Attorney General running against a deeply unpopular and scandal ridden Trump is kind of appealing. I do think she's one of the most talented democrat politicians in the last decade or so...I'm just not sure she'd be right at the top of the ticket next time.

 

[sphagnum]

What sort of economic positions does Duckworth have? Wikipedia isn't giving me very much.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Even so. I'm all in with a Cuban/DiCaprio/Winfrey candidate in 2020. I still think it is the only shot democrats have.

I think people overrate Kamala's chances at this point.

This is the shit people were saying on Wednesday in a depressed panic. I thought we've moved past that.

 

[kess]

Trump is going to be 74 in 2020. Seems like an excellent opportunity to run someone half his age against him, no?

 

[shinra-bansho]

I didn't know about the shell nonprofit. Do you have the details?

Her father and her set up a non profit post 9/11. It ended up doing mostly nothing in the period before it had information promoting her politics for months. Which she says was a mistake and it certainly could be. Although why they even ran this is a questionmark.

Scratch below the surface and she's basically a crappier Hawaii Hillary, who pretty much just latched onto Sanders, which makes how enamored people have become with her weird.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Obama seems ready to lead the rebellion once out of office

https://twitter.com/AnnaTarkov/status/798497398540505088

 

[sphagnum]

Obama seems ready to lead the rebellion once out of office

COMMUNITY ORGANIZER SATANIC ALINSKYITE OBAMA IS COMING BACK!

Nice callback to the 08 campaign.

 

[Totakeke]

Obama seems ready to lead the rebellion once out of office

https://twitter.com/AnnaTarkov/status/798497398540505088

Save us.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

JFC, is there any obvious presidential contender on the Democratic side for 2020? Beside a 78 year old Bernie Sanders?

Not even Trump was an unknown. Literally, he's been running for President since the late 80s and The Simpsons predicted he could be President (I know it was a joke, but, shows Trump wasn't exactly a surprise).

But I honestly have a hard time finding an obvious candidate on the Dem side. Maybe Elizabeth Warren, who would be slightly older than Hillary was this year but younger than Bernie.

Amy Klobuchar? Maybe it will end up being an actor or businessman, or even a judge! There aren't even any good Democratic governors left either (God help us if Cuomo or Mcaullife run).

Kathleen Sebelius was a good choice, before Obamacare... and Janet Napolitano is a lesbian, let's not kid ourselves, so that would be hard. Tammy Baldwin would be a better choice in that regard.

I could foresee Kate Brown, Steve Bullock, and even maybe Roy Cooper becoming sleeper hits in the 2020 primaries. Bench is small enough where we shouldn't count anyone out.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Wasn't Obama also a city man.

Granted, he spent a good part of his childhood in Kansas but I don't feel like Kamala's weakness is that much of a problem.

Obama was from Chicago, placing him in the middle of the upper Midwest. This is a big part of how he could reach out to voters in places like Iowa in the same way Bill Clinton could appeal to southern voters in the 90's.

It's not the only reason he pulled off the big Iowa win (he also was a master of organizing and caucuses heavily reward that, plus no Iraq war vote and he had fantastic messaging) but it's definitely a part of it.

 

[BiggNife]

Obama seems ready to lead the rebellion once out of office

https://twitter.com/AnnaTarkov/status/798497398540505088

Also the official democrats youtube channel has audio, fyi - https://youtu.be/zdWWJR_UOQo?t=8m6s

 

[Jeels]

Obama was from Chicago, placing him in the middle of the upper Midwest. This is a big part of how he could reach out to voters in places like Iowa in the same way Bill Clinton could appeal to southern voters in the 90's.

It's not the only reason he pulled off the big Iowa win (he also was a master of organizing and caucuses heavily reward that, plus no Iraq war vote and he had fantastic messaging) but it's definitely a part of it.

Didn't Hillary also grow up in Chicago?

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Didn't Hillary also grow up in Chicago?

Sure, but she's not a politician from Chicago in the same way Obama isn't a politician from Kansas. Obama had to tap into and understand the regional concerns of his constituents and could work for that. He'd also spent his pre-senate time as a community organizer in the area.

Hillary, on the other hand, spent her political life in Arkansas, DC, and New York. Since she's basically thrown off her Arkansas roots, she's worked mostly as a NE coastal politician.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Obama seems ready to lead the rebellion once out of office

https://twitter.com/AnnaTarkov/status/798497398540505088

What type of roll will Obama play after he's done?

 

[Gotchaye]

I'm not very worried about finding a candidate in 2020.

I mean, it's not like Bernie Sanders was a household name before. And if you'd suggested him in 2012 you'd have gotten laughed out of the room - he's an atheist/Jewish socialist! But a lot of Democrats would have been pretty happy with him this time around. Donald Trump was perhaps someone people might have thought of as running for president, but nobody expected him to actually get there - or even to be nominated until roughly five minutes before the RNC. If it's wide open we'll get a big primary field, and I think that unlike with the Republicans we won't have to deal with half of the candidates being there to sell books.

Somebody will have an appealing message, and it's not like a lack of significant governing experience is an electoral disadvantage. If we have to go with another 70 year old we can, but I think without Hillary Clinton around we'll get a bigger group of younger people.

Even so. I'm all in with a Cuban/DiCaprio/Winfrey candidate in 2020. I still think it is the only shot democrats have.

I think people overrate Kamala's chances at this point.

I feel like if we're floating random celebrities you've really got to go with Colbert.

 

[JP_]

Trump apparently hosting dinner for cops covering anti-trump protests

 

[Y2Kev]

Tulsi's islamophobia is an electoral asset! Tulsi 2020

 

[shinra-bansho]

Tulsi's islamophobia is an electoral asset! Tulsi 2020

Tulsi / Maher 2020. Get that celebrity factor.