-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
- Status
VendettaRed07
Member
Who was the GOP pocketing in 2012? They pretty much ran everyone other than el Jebe
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Yeah, that's what I mean. In a country with a strong right-wing tilt (I've got a post in my history recently that details why the US would lean this way as part of our culture), you can't have experience without reaching across the aisle at least once or twice. Those compromises will lose you support with the Dem base, specifically the faction that views such compromise as being a shill or neoliberal or whatever.
Governor's races do need to do better, and I think this coming presidency will help. We need to get back to the strategy of "the only good Republican is a defeated Republican." The GOP is currently holding down mansions in places like MA and MD, for God's sakes, largely because those Republicans aren't batshit crazy. But we've got to stop throwing them cookies because they don't want to exterminate black people. Larry Hogan was a Christie fan! He's not someone that should be winning a statewide race in Maryland.
benjipwns
Banned
Christie, Rudy, Jindal, Huckabee, Thune, Pence, Mitch Daniels*, Mark Sanford*
never said they were great or ideal candidates, but better than Herman Cain (999), Bachmann, Newt, and Santorum really...2012 was looking like Romney v. Perry v. scraps until oops
*prior to weird relationship stuff derailing things they were seen as strong contenders with Tea Party support
never said they were great or ideal candidates, but better than Herman Cain (999), Bachmann, Newt, and Santorum really...2012 was looking like Romney v. Perry v. scraps until oops
*prior to weird relationship stuff derailing things they were seen as strong contenders with Tea Party support
I just want to put it out there that her source is www.youngcons.com
benjipwns
Banned
It wasn't him. His wife divorced him to marry another man leaving their kids behind, then came back four years later.
And they are not friendly to reporters asking about it.
Also, he kinda shit on social conservatives by saying their views shouldn't be relevant to main focus of the GOP because what else they gonna do lol
He's also made enemies of the Church of Scientology, you do not go far in America doing that.
VendettaRed07
Member
I didn't know we picked up a Governor seat in West Virginia
Was that like a 51 point ticket split or something?
Was that like a 51 point ticket split or something?
benjipwns
Banned
Trump: 68.7%
Clinton: 26.5%
Justice: 49.2%
Cole: 42.3%
Pritt: 6.4%
And it wasn't a pick-up, it was a hold. Outgoing governor was a Democrat, and serial killer, Earl Ray Tomblin.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Jim Justice 2020 here we go
benjipwns
Banned
he is a billionaire
Yeah, but he inherited his wealth and ran on an anti-establishment platform promising to bring back coal jobs...
...hey, wait a minute.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
AntraxSuicide, I really wish you were wrong, but I know deep down that's what has to be done. We can't educate BernieBros to understand how politics work, so our solution in the short term is to do exactly what you are saying. You don't get 100% of what you want in a 2 party FTPT system, it's a simple fact of the election system but it's seemingly lost of many.
Perhaps the most frustrating part, and it underlines the entire presidential race, is we don't have numbers of people who did not vote in the GE, yet supported Sanders in the primary. Perhaps we are falling victim to the very loud few that just can't get over the Primary? After all, we don't entertain the homeless looking crazy fuckers who show up to town halls... unless there are tons of them.
Demographics will eventually fix the problem on it's own, but that's a couple of decades out yet, we have to do something in the meantime. After all you can't run on a White Nationalist Platform without enough white voters. This is of course if Dems continue outreach like Hillary did. There are calls to change this tactic.
Aside from the Presidency, we have to get back to contesting everything but the reddest of districts and races. Blue Dogs were frustrating as fuck during the ACA bill construction, but i'd take them over the trash the GOP is currently running. But with Split Ticket Voting seemingly dead, it muddies this a bit. Of course I think we should still try.
Perhaps the most frustrating part, and it underlines the entire presidential race, is we don't have numbers of people who did not vote in the GE, yet supported Sanders in the primary. Perhaps we are falling victim to the very loud few that just can't get over the Primary? After all, we don't entertain the homeless looking crazy fuckers who show up to town halls... unless there are tons of them.
Demographics will eventually fix the problem on it's own, but that's a couple of decades out yet, we have to do something in the meantime. After all you can't run on a White Nationalist Platform without enough white voters. This is of course if Dems continue outreach like Hillary did. There are calls to change this tactic.
Aside from the Presidency, we have to get back to contesting everything but the reddest of districts and races. Blue Dogs were frustrating as fuck during the ACA bill construction, but i'd take them over the trash the GOP is currently running. But with Split Ticket Voting seemingly dead, it muddies this a bit. Of course I think we should still try.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Clearly the hero we need. Justice for all!
VendettaRed07
Member
Well at least West Virginia democrats have it together somewhat
VendettaRed07
Member
would vote for this tag line alone
benjipwns
Banned
What if he was, like Bernie, cross-endorsed by http://www.justicepartyusa.org/
VendettaRed07
Member
We aren't really in a position to educate anyone given how we are pretty clueless ourselves on how things work, given we were wrong about virtually everything this election.
Republicans didn't spend time constantly telling their base they couldn't give them what they want. They promised everything and more and now they are in control of the entire government.
Obama won with "Yes we can"..."But this will be too hard!" Is never going to be a winning campaign slogan.
gutter_trash
Banned
shinra-bansho
Member
It was 70K votes. The desire to overcorrect or hyperbolize the loss is getting as annoying as the constant Primary relitigation.
On the latter everyone needs to seriously get the fuck over it.
The Republican base would essentially vote for a Hitler shaped poop sculpture. There's your lesson. Apparently it needs relearning every 8 years. Learn2vote libruls.
Also, if you actually give a shit about who's elected president, don't vote third party. You're accomplishing nothing. A sliver of the liberal population desperately needs to internalize the lesson of "perfect is the enemy of good."
shinra-bansho
Member
White nationalists aren't the only ones emboldened.
Abortion Foes, Emboldened by Trump, Promise Onslaught of Tough Restrictions http://nyti.ms/2he5gQT
Realised when I woke this morning that literally the first thing I do every day is check Twitter and WaPo to see if Trump has started a war,
No lie, no exaggeration.
VendettaRed07
Member
It was 70k votes in an election that should not have even been close. That nobody on here had even guessed it would be in this ball park. Lost 7 states obama won.
Even if she had won. She would have achieved nothing because we wouldn't have had the house or the senate. It isn't primary relitigation to say the Democratic Party going forward perhaps we should be rethinking how to approach engaging with its voters and what it communicates to them
benjipwns
Banned
Not necessarily true that if she had won the House and Senate would be the same. House probably (though smaller), but I have to imagine if she was winning the presidency then the Senate would be at worst 50-50.
edit: I support your general point about Governorships and state houses though. Even when Obama was winning, those were getting battered and 2016 was just the devastating blow considering it should have been a...Blue Wall year.
edit: I support your general point about Governorships and state houses though. Even when Obama was winning, those were getting battered and 2016 was just the devastating blow considering it should have been a...Blue Wall year.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Yeah, Clinton winning WI/PA means that McGinty and Feingold probably make it in.
Fuck, man. Every time I think about Feingold losing I get sad.
Fuck, man. Every time I think about Feingold losing I get sad.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I think this goes back to the core idea that "Obama For America" simply does not translate well to other races. Not even to non-Obama presidential races without tweaks.
Certainly not to midterms, lol.
shinra-bansho
Member
"Should not have been close" why?
You want to talk about people being wrong about things. That's one of the things people are still being wrong about.
Because it's Donald Trump? Because he ran a racist, misogynist, bigoted campaign? How have people not figured out.
No one cared enough. And some people liked it.
A week here or there and we'd have a second President Clinton and people would have been effusive. And no one would bother to question strategy and tactics.
VendettaRed07
Member
Yes. That is exactly why. After everything that has happened and everything he has said under no circumstances should that man be allowed to be given the powers he is about to be given. If they couldn't motivate people or get them out to vote considering everything that says a lot about the state of the party. It's their job to make people care. Like I don't think we can just shrug and go "oh well better luck next time" after what just happened. Especially considering all the significant losses that happened underneath the years before
Aaron Strife
Banned
People forget that the fundamentals of the election showed a much tighter race - this was an instance where gut checks (Lichtman's keys) proved more reliable than polling data which had a host of problems.
Of course, when you consider the Comey letter to be a bombshell, that makes it harder to construct a clear narrative.
Of course, when you consider the Comey letter to be a bombshell, that makes it harder to construct a clear narrative.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Feingold performed worse than Clinton right?
exmachina64
Banned
cartoon_soldier
Member
Feingold would have lost of Clinton won WI narrowly.
Unabashed Liberalism lost this election.
My 5 year old son tonight literally told me and my wife "better luck next time" tonight when we mentioned we were still sad Hillary lost. It was oddly very comforting.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I will agree with the sentiment behind this if not the exact content, mostly the latter part.
The fact that it was so close (70k spread across three states, and Florida was on the edge as well) is encouraging because it suggests a better candidate can run a similar playbook and get over the hump.
On the other hand, that it did end up so close and we were on the wrong side of essentially a coin flip is fucking infuriating.
Refusal - or general disinterest - towards focusing on downballot is hurting us hard. We don't have a very good bench, and no contingency for a Trump presidency. We were basically counting on Hillary to hold the line against a GOP Congress and numerous state houses and that's bad strategy. And this is a problem with our base as well - younger voters tend to not give a shit about anything below presidential.
"Why isn't Obama more liberal" because he's had to deal with a (in part or in whole) GOP Congress for the past six years because none of you fucking whiners ever vote.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
McGinty and Ross both underperformed Clinton in PA/NC too, and Murphy got crushed. The only real notable candidate to outperform Clinton is Kander, who has explicitly said his goal was to run as a progressive in a red state.
shinra-bansho
Member
Again, you may be horrified. People didn't care. That doesn't say that much about the Party, so much as it speaks volumes o the electorate. The GOP comes home.
It's not about shrugging. It's about recognising that this was fundamentally a lot closer a race than people incorrectly thought it would be because of how reprehensible Trump is to them. People got complacent, yes. Because they got it into their head that Republicans couldn't possibly support Trump. The GOP comes home.
The President's Party loses seats in midterms. Since, pretty much, forever. Also Obamacare. 2010 resulted in redistricting, which cemented these losses. Also the GOP comes home.
Evangelicals vote R. Old racists vote R. The super rich who don't give enough of a shit about social issues, vote R. The GOP comes home.
benjipwns
Banned
I assume you're talking about when you tossed his alt-right coddling ass out on the street.
I feel like the point you are trying to make is that if undead Hitler was on the ballot with an R next to his name, the GOP would vote for him.
The difference between Feingold and Clinton was 1714 votes, which is statistically insignificant. Anybody making any conclusive statement about why 1714 fewer people voted for Feingold should not be given any heed. Just like we should not presume anything if Feingold got 1714 votes more than Clinton. Especially when Ron Johnson could hang on to both the incumbent and antiestablishment label by promising it would be his last term.
Cooper (NC) and Tim Ryan outperformed Clinton.
Slurpy2k20
Member
Fucking horrifying. Especially how someone can potentially watch this and think "yeah, I agree with alot of that, white nationalism is not that bad" when he's basically spouting Nazi propaganda in a really "classy" sounding way. Also, fuck the interviewer. He seemed to do everything in his power to help the guy frame things in a rational way, and wants to act as a "bridge" to get the conversation started cause the mean ppl outside dont want to indulge in this guy's views.
https://youtu.be/muf3XYTXfHk
https://youtu.be/muf3XYTXfHk
He is a fire type supremacist. Except pikachu, he is one of the good ones.
I also had to explain the electoral college to him. He said he was disappointed she got less votes than trump (who "makes bad choices") "well actually son she did get more votes..."
aspiegamer
Member
5-9 sounds like an interesting age for a child to be during a Trump term. That's old enough to have some understanding of the biggest global affairs (like a war or terror attack) and the most basic of political concepts, but not old enough to understand what it "means" or the details on how we got to where we are.
Well, "interesting" might not be the correct word, but you get what I'm saying. As a quick example, I don't envy the teacher or parent who has to explain to a 5-year-old why the person with the most votes lost a thing. Counting hands is how you get an answer to literally any indecision or question at that age and it's a pretty basic concept. When these kids are in middle-high school they'll all need to write a dozen essays on why the Electoral College exists (and an opinion on if it's reasonable/stupid), so might as well get them prepped as young as possible! Maybe this generation will learn a damn lesson about it, whereas the people who had to learn about Gore's defeat before their first time voting clearly learned absofuckinglutely nothing.
Well, "interesting" might not be the correct word, but you get what I'm saying. As a quick example, I don't envy the teacher or parent who has to explain to a 5-year-old why the person with the most votes lost a thing. Counting hands is how you get an answer to literally any indecision or question at that age and it's a pretty basic concept. When these kids are in middle-high school they'll all need to write a dozen essays on why the Electoral College exists (and an opinion on if it's reasonable/stupid), so might as well get them prepped as young as possible! Maybe this generation will learn a damn lesson about it, whereas the people who had to learn about Gore's defeat before their first time voting clearly learned absofuckinglutely nothing.
I basically said she won more votes, but they weren't all in the right spots. That you had to win votes "and states" and that he won more states, and even though she got more votes these where the rules we have for
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I was just talking Senate candidates, there's also a few others if we extend that like the Montana governor. I guess there's also Bayh but that's kind of a special case.
aspiegamer
Member
Aah, "the rules." Always effective.
If I were like 10, I'd use the EC as my go-to essay for the next forever. For me my go-to was ANWR and I abused the fuck out of my original research paper from middle school all the way into college. It got a little better each time I had to use it. More sources, expanded vocabulary, etc. Had its file format changed multiple times. Got used 5-6 times total! A powerpoint was added at the very end of high school and I'd have abused that thing even longer if I could have. Ran out of classes where I could even vaguely apply it to anything. I was exceptionally proud of the final use, which pulled the weight for an entire team of 4 people who didn't feel like doing any of the work on their own in an environmental studies class. Like, come on, why are you even in this class? Even getting them to preview the powerpoint in advance for presentation day was pulling teeth. "Well we can just read the slides, right?"
- Status