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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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P

Pixieking

Banned
VendettaRed07 said:
Yes. That is exactly why. After everything that has happened and everything he has said under no circumstances should that man be allowed to be given the powers he is about to be given. If they couldn't motivate people or get them out to vote considering everything that says a lot about the state of the party. It's their job to make people care. Like I don't think we can just shrug and go "oh well better luck next time" after what just happened. Especially considering all the significant losses that happened underneath the years before
Click to expand...

As Shinra says, it says less about the party and more about the electorate.

To elaborate further, the massive number of negative ads Hillary's campaign ran were meant to be a way to get people to care.

"Trump assaults women"
"Trump mocks disabled people"
"Trump is and always has been a racist"
"Trump doesn't pay his contractors"
"Trump is a bad businessman"
"Trump shouldn't have his finger near the nuclear button"
"Trump is anti-abortion"
"Trump is a fat shaming dick, because fuck me everyone can see Alicia Machado has always been gorgeous"

Sure, there's very little there that says what Hillary would do to make things "better". But it shows how indifferent voters were. So much is wrong with Trump that it beggars belief, and yet voters and potential voters just couldn't be motivated. Certainly the media played a part, but a certain portion of the Dem base - and people who could've voted Dem but didn't vote at all - just don't care about other people.

If they did, they would've been scared shitless of a Trump presidency, and that would've motivated them.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
k6Pnrii.jpg


I got a chuckle out of that at least :p

Pixieking said:
As Shinra says, it says less about the party and more about the electorate.

To elaborate further, the massive number of negative ads Hillary's campaign ran were meant to be a way to get people to care.

"Trump assaults women"
"Trump mocks disabled people"
"Trump is and always has been a racist"
"Trump doesn't pay his contractors"
"Trump is a bad businessman"
"Trump shouldn't have his finger near the nuclear button"
"Trump is anti-abortion"
"Trump is a fat shaming dick, because fuck me everyone can see Alicia Machado has always been gorgeous"

Sure, there's very little there that says what Hillary would do to make things "better". But it shows how indifferent voters were. So much is wrong with Trump that it beggars belief, and yet voters and potential voters just couldn't be motivated. Certainly the media played a part, but a certain portion of the Dem base - and people who could've voted Dem but didn't vote at all - just don't care about other people.

If they did, they would've been scared shitless of a Trump presidency, and that would've motivated them.
Click to expand...

I would add that in 95% of those ads, it was just video or audio of Trump saying and doing these things himself, not even second hand reports. I think there is a lot of credence in the belief that Clinton's experience with Goldwater in her youth informed a lot of how she ran her campaign.

I think at the end of the day Trump got more Republicans to vote for him than Clinton got Democrats to vote for her (exit poll data can be iffy but its what we have for right now). As much as we have to be aware and learn from Clinton's mistakes and as much as the Russia/FBI fuckery was unprecedented, that is a damning indictment of the Democratic electorate given the opponent and the stakes.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
aspiegamer said:
5-9 sounds like an interesting age for a child to be during a Trump term. That's old enough to have some understanding of the biggest global affairs (like a war or terror attack) and the most basic of political concepts, but not old enough to understand what it "means" or the details on how we got to where we are.

Well, "interesting" might not be the correct word, but you get what I'm saying. As a quick example, I don't envy the teacher or parent who has to explain to a 5-year-old why the person with the most votes lost a thing. Counting hands is how you get an answer to literally any indecision or question at that age and it's a pretty basic concept. When these kids are in middle-high school they'll all need to write a dozen essays on why the Electoral College exists (and an opinion on if it's reasonable/stupid), so might as well get them prepped as young as possible! Maybe this generation will learn a damn lesson about it, whereas the people who had to learn about Gore's defeat before their first time voting clearly learned absofuckinglutely nothing.
Click to expand...
5-9 year olds now are great candidates for making this shot happen again 20 years from now:

"Ugh, Malia Obama? I'm tired of the Obamas and the Trumps. And she sent out unencrypted holograms. Boo you whore. I can't bring myself to support her. If only the Democrats picked the more inspiring candidate in the primary, Senator Bieber. I'm writing in Kanye.

Jill Stein? Who's that? Wasn't she the one who changed the numbers in 2016? I wasn't paying attention back then. And I'm a big fucking ignoramous so I don't have any intellectual curiosity to seek out reasons why voting third party in presidential elections might not be a good idea historically. I'm only in the perennial swing state of North Florida (South Florida is the first underwater state), my vote doesn't matter."
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Morning Joe carrying water for Trump again.

Basically glossing all the Russian connections/denials.

EDIT: No Mike Barnacle, Willie, or anyone to counteract. Right now it's a Tillerson circle jerk.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
daedalius said:
I feel like the point you are trying to make is that if undead Hitler was on the ballot with an R next to his name, the GOP would vote for him.
Click to expand...

Yes, they would.

The Chosen One said:
Morning Joe carrying water for Trump again.

Basically glossing all the Russian connections/denials.

EDIT: No Mike Barnacle, Willie, or anyone to counteract. Right now it's a Tillerson circle jerk.
Click to expand...

Joe's a proud Republican, water is wet.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Clinton did not run a terrible campaign though it wasn't like Obama campaigns, Comey cost her the election. Plain and simple. All data points to it.

She list Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin due to the massive break for Trump in the late deciders.

And the is where the Clinton campaign not going after Trump's economic plans and corruption hurt them.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Trump is doing his daily Tweet Storm to America.

12m
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Unless you catch "hackers" in the act, it is very hard to determine who was doing the hacking. Why wasn't this brought up before election?

BITCH IT WAS!

16m
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Can you imagine if the election results were the opposite and WE tried to play the Russia/CIA card. It would be called conspiracy theory!

If Russia/CIA hacked the RNC and DNC and only released info about the RNC, then you all could bitch, too.
 
N

nature boy

Member
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 8m8 minutes ago
The F-35 program and cost is out of control. Billions of dollars can and will be saved on military (and other) purchases after January 20th.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 13m13 minutes ago
Unless you catch "hackers" in the act, it is very hard to determine who was doing the hacking. Why wasn't this brought up before election?

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 16m16 minutes ago
Can you imagine if the election results were the opposite and WE tried to play the Russia/CIA card. It would be called conspiracy theory!
Click to expand...

For a guy that doesn't email, he sure knows a lot about hacking.

And good luck with the F-35 program.
 
K

kess

Member
Billions will be saved on the military to be spent on the military

Trump's view on approriations was probably gleaned from Uncle John's Bathroom Readers
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Pixieking said:
As Shinra says, it says less about the party and more about the electorate.

To elaborate further, the massive number of negative ads Hillary's campaign ran were meant to be a way to get people to care.

"Trump assaults women"
"Trump mocks disabled people"
"Trump is and always has been a racist"
"Trump doesn't pay his contractors"
"Trump is a bad businessman"
"Trump shouldn't have his finger near the nuclear button"
"Trump is anti-abortion"
"Trump is a fat shaming dick, because fuck me everyone can see Alicia Machado has always been gorgeous"

Sure, there's very little there that says what Hillary would do to make things "better". But it shows how indifferent voters were. So much is wrong with Trump that it beggars belief, and yet voters and potential voters just couldn't be motivated. Certainly the media played a part, but a certain portion of the Dem base - and people who could've voted Dem but didn't vote at all - just don't care about other people.

If they did, they would've been scared shitless of a Trump presidency, and that would've motivated them.
Click to expand...
Why would they care if Hillary was as equally unfavorable candidate as it's opponent.

I think Democrats have an issue here. The electoral system doesn't align with their strengths. The only way to change it and shutdown the GOP is by winning local level elections. Keep pretending potential voters are at fault, that will surely help you once you need them to vote for you.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
Rick Perry summoned to Trump Tower to discuss energy secretary position

Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry has been summoned to Trump Tower for a meeting today to discuss the position of energy secretary, according to transition sources.

Perry was contacted over the weekend and the meeting finalized on Sunday. Perry will arrive as internal debate over energy secretary intensifies. Perry will now be the third contender against Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W. VA, and Ray Washburne, a key Trump fundraiser, former RNC finance chair, restaurateur and investor in oil and gas operations.
Click to expand...

I like Washburne for the position, he's got restaurant experience.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
thehypocrite said:
Why would they care if Hillary was as equally unfavorable candidate as it's opponent.

I think Democrats have an issue here. The electoral system doesn't align with their strengths. The only way to change it and shutdown the GOP is by winning local level elections. Keep pretending potential voters are at fault, that will surely help you once you need them to vote for you.
Click to expand...

We keep coming back to this "don't blame voters" bit over and over again and I for the life of me can't understand why.

-Why are we, posters on a message board, not allowed to express anger, disappointment and confusion at the actions our fellow adult citizens chose to take? Why do we have to pretend that they lack agency?
-Why is there some assumption of a choice where we can't do the above AND figure out ways to better reach the marginal voters or change our own gameplans and policies (though given the numbers, it seems clear the latter doesn't need much changing) to try to succeed next time(s)?
-Why is there some assumption that Democratic politicians are going to go out whilst campaigning and just scream that all voters are "shitheads" or something? Like they are all going to forget how to run for office?
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Jennifer Bendery Verified account
‏@jbendery

Mitch McConnell dodges all questions about what GOP will replace Obamacare with. Just says they're gonna repeal it, figure it out later.
Click to expand...

They're actually going to go through with this and destroy the health care system in our country. This is insanity.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Plinko said:
They're actually going to go through with this and destroy the health care system in our country. This is insanity.
Click to expand...

Welcome to modern day GOP. As long as those black and brown peoole don't have insurance that the white people pay for, then everyone is happy.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I was on reddit and was poking around and was looking at the top rated thread of all time

And it's Obama's AMA.

Wow, that site's taken quite the turn in 8 years. Trump's the only major candidate to do an AMA this time around, but it was hilariously awful. And it makes sense why Hillary didn't do one. That would have ended badly.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Crocodile said:
We keep coming back to this "don't blame voters" bit over and over again and I for the life of me can't understand why.

-Why are we, posters on a message board, not allowed to express anger, disappointment and confusion at the actions our fellow adult citizens chose to take? Why do we have to pretend that they lack agency?
-Why is there some assumption of a choice where we can't do the above AND figure out ways to better reach the marginal voters or change our own gameplans and policies (though given the numbers, it seems clear the latter doesn't need much changing) to try to succeed next time(s)?
-Why is there some assumption that Democratic politicians are going to go out whilst campaigning and just scream that all voters are "shitheads" or something? Like they are all going to forget how to run for office?
Click to expand...
Is a waste of energy that gets you nowhere politically speaking. The political parties are responsible for grafting a system in which the plurality of views of the electorate have no room. Look what happens when people vote third party, they just harm the interest of those with which they agree the most.

Non voters are disenfranchised voters by the political system. If you want to blame them go ahead, but it does illustrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
thehypocrite said:
Is a waste of energy that gets you nowhere politically speaking. The political parties are responsible for grafting a system in which the plurality of views of the electorate have no room. Look what happens when people vote third party, they just harm the interest of those with which they agree the most.

Non voters are disenfranchised voters by the political system. If you want to blame them go ahead, but it does illustrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.
Click to expand...

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey that's the post I wanted to read
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
I promise for the entity of my Vice Presidential campaign there will be a 24/7 AMA thread available.

I won't be answering any of those questions, but you are free to ask away.

This kind of dialogue is important for our democracy.
 
V

Vixdean

Member
Plinko said:
They're actually going to go through with this and destroy the health care system in our country. This is insanity.
Click to expand...

I don't know why anyone is surprised. They have no replacement for Obamacare, at least nothing that actually provides healthcare to same number of people. Republicans just don't care about healthcare, they see it as a free market issue just like everything else, and if government just gets out of the way it will take care of itself. Hell, some of them are probably delusional enough to think that will happen after they repeal it. The key is for Democrats to just stay out of the way, let them own the aftermath full stop and then bludgeon them with it.

As for feeling sorry for the victims of repeal? Fuck 'em. Remember most of the federal money for Obamacare is going to red states. They voted for this outcome, let them drown in it and maybe they'll finally wake the fuck up (or die from heart disease and diabetes).
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Former Democratic Rep. Chaka Fattah (Pa.) was sentenced to 10 years in prison Monday by a federal judge in Philadelphia.

Fattah, 60, served 22 years in Congress before losing a Democratic primary in April.

Fattah was convicted in June on a number of federal corruption charges, including bribery, racketeering, money laundering, bank fraud, mail and wire fraud, and filing false statements. The long-running criminal scheme was related to paying back a loan from Fattah's unsuccessful run for Philadelphia mayor in 2007.
Click to expand...
SWAMP BEING DRAINED
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
thehypocrite said:
Is a waste of energy that gets you nowhere politically speaking. The political parties are responsible for grafting a system in which the plurality of views of the electorate have no room. Look what happens when people vote third party, they just harm the interest of those with which they agree the most.

Non voters are disenfranchised voters by the political system. If you want to blame them go ahead, but it does illustrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.
Click to expand...

Nah, non-voters are people who here about racism/fascism/sexism/etc.. and go "yeah, but what about me?" They're not good people.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
I think one thing we should be adamant about is that the "Mike Pence is worse than Trump", line is completely false and no one should be saying it.

Mike Pence wouldn't lead a state funded propaganda machine just because he feels the media is unfair to him. Mike Pence is at least aware of the basic constructs of our government and is educated about our institutions and respects them to a reasonable degree. Mike Pence would not likely be baited into a trade war with whatever countries leaders made fun of his hair. And he actually released his tax returns and we know his financial information and that he isn't bought out by or involved with Russian nationalists.

Pence would be beyond terrible but not dissimilar to things we have seen before in recent history. He would not be a potentially union shattering President. He can be fought against. He passed a bunch of bullshit in Indiana but the state is still there and he was hounded for his religious freedom nonsense to the point where he had to over turn it.

People see Pence for who he is. He doesn't have some magical quality that makes people turn into morons who apparently can't seemingly put two and two together about his questionable aspects. I would feel significantly more comfortable with a Pence administration than Trump.
 
G

geomon

Member
Electors demand intelligence briefing before Electoral College vote

Ten members of the Electoral College, including Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi’s daughter Christine and a former member of Congress, are demanding a briefing from U.S. intelligence officials on any ongoing investigations into Donald Trump’s ties to Russia.

In a letter to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, the electors — nine Democrats and one Republican — argue that they require the information ahead of Dec. 19, when the Electoral College is set to meet and select the next president.

“The Electors require to know from the intelligence community whether there are ongoing investigations into ties between Donald Trump, his campaign or associates, and Russian government interference in the election, the scope of those investigations, how far those investigations may have reached, and who was involved in those investigations,” they wrote. “We further require a briefing on all investigative findings, as these matters directly impact the core factors in our deliberations of whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States.”

The letter is signed by electors from five states and the District of Columbia. In addition to Christine Pelosi — a California elector — it includes a signature from one former members of Congress: New Hampshire’s Carol Shea-Porter.

Shea-Porter’s three other New Hampshire colleagues — Terie Norelli, Bev Hollingsworth and Dudley Dudley — also signed the letter. D.C. Councilwoman Anita Bonds, former Rhode Island gubernatorial candidate Clay Pell and Maryland activist Courtney Watson round out the nine Democratic signatories. Colorado Democratic elector Micheal Baca, leader of an effort to turn the Electoral College against Trump, is also on the list. Texas' Chris Suprun, an emergency responder who has been a vocal critic of Trump, is the only Republican elector to sign on.
Click to expand...

Hope?
 
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