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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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Spoiler alert: The only meaningful favourable/unfavourable ratings are those of Obama and Trump.

If Sanders or Warren or Biden ever gets to run or gets elected to the highest office maybe it will matter.
 

Totakeke

Member
Looks like Sanders has the ability to cross party lines a bit better than Obama. My guess is there is something else at play here (Spoiler alert: Bernie is white).

Or that Bernie hasn't been wrung through the Republican smear machine. How else would anyone explain Obama's unfavorability?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Or that Bernie hasn't been wrung through the Republican smear machine. How else would anyone explain Obama's unfavorability?

I'm sure that's part of it, but right-wing media was trashing him early and often during the primaries. Limbaugh railed on him for weeks, as did Fox News.

I think it has much more to do with him being white.
 

kirblar

Member
I'm sure that's part of it, but right-wing media was trashing him early and often during the primaries. Limbaugh railed on him for weeks, as did Fox News.

I think it has much more to do with him being white.
The GOP themselves deliberately kids-gloved him.
 
Barack Obama
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Bernie Sanders
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I don't know how this translates to the other favorability ratings we've seen. Like Obama is very favorable among Democrats, but also very unfavorable among Republicans. Independents are mostly a wash.

80 percent of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Bernie, compared to only 13 percent unfavorable. You sure wouldn't know that from the center-left media or the rest of the party establishment, let alone this forum.
 

Totakeke

Member
80 percent of Democrats have a favorable opinion of Bernie, compared to only 13 percent unfavorable. You sure wouldn't know that from the center-left media or the rest of the party establishment, let alone this forum.

I have a favorable rating of Bernie. I have an unfavorable rating of his most vocal supporters though.
 

Her favorability ratings during her actual campaign most certainly did matter, as much as the electability argument for her insisted otherwise.

But my point is not to relitigate the primary, just to emphasize that people like you and kirblar are a tiny minority within the party and that any effort to purge the Dems of Sanders' influence are highly unlikely to succeed.
 
Her favorability ratings during her actual campaign most certainly did matter, as much as the electability argument for her insisted otherwise.

But my point is not to relitigate the primary, just to emphasize that people like you and kirblar are a tiny minority within the party and that any effort to purge the Dems of Sanders' influence are highly unlikely to succeed.

The point was being an actual candidate changes you and how you're perceived.

Few are calling for Sanders to be purged, some of us just are apprehensive about the idea of him being the leader, the face, the calls of "it is his party now" are disconcerting. He is important and will be going forward but I do not want him driving the car.
 

pigeon

Banned
Her favorability ratings during her actual campaign most certainly did matter, as much as the electability argument for her insisted otherwise.

But my point is not to relitigate the primary, just to emphasize that people like you and kirblar are a tiny minority within the party and that any effort to purge the Dems of Sanders' influence are highly unlikely to succeed.

It really depends on what you mean by Sanders's influence. Economic populism is definitely a plus. Taking the votes of people of color for granted is not going to work out for the Democratic Party.
 

Tall4Life

Member
Sanders shouldn't be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward, but they should take notice of what he was talking about and push that on their future candidates. Bernie's ideology, or at least a version of it, should be incorporated in the Democratic Party of the future. He energized his voters in a way that Hillary couldn't. He ultimately lost in the end because of his ignoring of minorities, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't move some of his ideas into the core platform.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Sanders shouldn't be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward, but they should take notice of what he was talking about and push that on their future candidates. Bernie's ideology, or at least a version of it, should be incorporated in the Democratic Party of the future. He energized his voters in a way that Hillary couldn't. He ultimately lost in the end because of his ignoring of minorities, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't move some of his ideas into the core platform.

The one thing that should not:

Being anti-trade will bring back jobs. It won't.

We need someone who can push for improved support systems in the face of automation.
We can compete with Automation, and produce goods here, but we can't compete without automation.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Oh, just realized Rick Perry is my new boss's boss's boss's boss. I wonder how much personel change happens on these things. I'm guessing not enough for me to notice.
 

Sobriquet

Member
With shades of HB2, the North Carolina GA just introduced two dozen bills in another late night, taxpayer-funded special session. Two dozen! Most of them take power away from Governor-elect Roy Cooper.
 
Sanders shouldn't be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward, but they should take notice of what he was talking about and push that on their future candidates. Bernie's ideology, or at least a version of it, should be incorporated in the Democratic Party of the future. He energized his voters in a way that Hillary couldn't. He ultimately lost in the end because of his ignoring of minorities, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't move some of his ideas into the core platform.

Exactly. It's not an either-or question. We can have economic populism and still keep our pro-minority positions.
 

royalan

Member
Sanders shouldn't be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward, but they should take notice of what he was talking about and push that on their future candidates. Bernie's ideology, or at least a version of it, should be incorporated in the Democratic Party of the future. He energized his voters in a way that Hillary couldn't. He ultimately lost in the end because of his ignoring of minorities, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't move some of his ideas into the core platform.

They did. Sanders had a lot of his ideas added to the party platform.
 
Sanders shouldn't be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward, but they should take notice of what he was talking about and push that on their future candidates. Bernie's ideology, or at least a version of it, should be incorporated in the Democratic Party of the future. He energized his voters in a way that Hillary couldn't. He ultimately lost in the end because of his ignoring of minorities, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't move some of his ideas into the core platform.

Exactly. He's not running for DNC chair and he's highly unlikely to run for president again given his age. But he is genuinely popular, and the Democratic elites who openly despise him and see him as a malign influence that cost Hillary the election do not represent the party.
 
Exactly. It's not an either-or question. We can have economic populism and still keep our pro-minority positions.

Not when you tell minorities to wait while you go full bore on your economic populism agenda.

"Look, we need to stop being politically correct. Identity politics = bad. Why we talk about bathrooms when we need to worry about economic anxiety."
 

Wag

Member
Sanders shouldn't be the leader of the Democratic Party going forward, but they should take notice of what he was talking about and push that on their future candidates. Bernie's ideology, or at least a version of it, should be incorporated in the Democratic Party of the future. He energized his voters in a way that Hillary couldn't. He ultimately lost in the end because of his ignoring of minorities, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't move some of his ideas into the core platform.

Bernie Sanders is in the outreach position for Senate Democrats. That is what it appears he has been doing , which is reaching out to working class voters.
 
Not when you tell minorities to wait while you go full bore on your economic populism agenda.

"Look, we need to stop being politically correct. Identity politics = bad. Why we talk about bathrooms when we need to worry about economic anxiety."

Out of curiosity, who is "telling minorities to wait"? If we're talking about Sanders position on the issue you reference, statements from him on it are readily available. Or are you mixing up that Colin Jost SNL joke (or that Mark Lilla guy writing for the NY Times) and assuming that it represents some large mass of people on the left? I mean, I'm sure somebody is saying it, but I tend to see it from the old centrist/Democratic Third Way/DLC types from the 90's (the type of people that Democrats in power have pandered to for years and of course have a long history of taking certain groups for granted and not addressing their issues until their forced to by grassroots movements), not from leftists.

What I do see more often nowadays is pointing out people who abuse and manipulate identity politics to in order to still support policies that end up harming those identities that people claim to care about. That seems pretty common on the left, but that's quite a bit different than saying "minorities need to wait" (never mind that there are plenty of minorities who, shocking news, do care about economic issues, and there are plenty of ways that oppression manifests itself economically that people would like to be solved)
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
http://www.thewrap.com/insiders-trump-team-dangles-ambassadorships-to-lure-a-list-inauguration-singers-exclusive/

I mean, this sounds so unbelievable. But this is Trump, so anything is possible at this point...

Oh god i hope most of the celebs blacklist his ass. One things for sure, anyone that shows up there is a sellout that will alienate a lot of their fans if they are worth anything. But then again i imagine there must be a lot of right-wing nutter folks out there that are fairly popular.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Polling the favourability of losers doesn't seem particularly useful.

Only if you want to completely ignore a strategy that appears to be working.

Of course bernie the individual's favorablity might change if he was given more scrutiny in a general election. We can only guess about that. But does it not matter that what the public's current view of Sanders is increadibly popular?

Seems to me like it's pretty good proof that his type of message and speaking like a human is a great thing to have in politics right now. If nothing else he'll be a great messenger for the democratic party against trump these next 4 years, and democrats should be trotting him out as much as they can for now.

Not everything has to be about the 2016 and 2020 presidential primary.
 

JP_

Banned
It really depends on what you mean by Sanders's influence. Economic populism is definitely a plus. Taking the votes of people of color for granted is not going to work out for the Democratic Party.

We're still promoting this myth? Yeah, he fucked up in the south during the primary. Extrapolating a future strategy or outcome prediction from that is silly.

Look at his black favorability/unfavorability numbers in this YouGov poll. Sanders does about as well as Clinton/Biden and bests Pelosi/Reid/Schumer/Warren.
 
We're still promoting this myth? Yeah, he fucked up in the south during the primary. Extrapolating a future strategy or outcome prediction from that is silly.

Look at his black favorability/unfavorability numbers in this YouGov poll. Sanders does about as well as Clinton/Biden and bests Pelosi/Reid/Schumer/Warren.

His statements after the election haven't inspired any confidence from me that he understands any mistakes he might have made. It doesn't matter. No one wants to purge Bernie from the party (not that he is really a member anyway). I will continue to criticize his idiotic statements no matter how popular he is, but if he can lie to some white people and get them to vote democratic than so be it.
 

JP_

Banned
His statements after the election haven't inspired any confidence from me that he understands any mistakes he might have made. It doesn't matter. No one wants to purge Bernie from the party (not that he is really a member anyway). I will continue to criticize his idiotic statements no matter how popular he is, but if he can lie to some white people and get them to vote democratic than so be it.

It never made sense to extrapolate a democratic primary strategy into a GE/congress strategy in the first place.
 

JP_

Banned
Telling me that my concerns about Bernie's wing of the party ignoring minorities are mythical is not a great way to make them go away.

The wing of the party supporting Keith Ellison over "safer" alternatives that wouldn't rustle feathers over religion and race?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
North Carolina:

Draft NC GOP legislation would trade control of election boards - Dems run them in off years, GOP runs them in election years…

Straight up villains. Not even trying to hide it. Democrats have to start fighting back or this will get worse and worse.
 

pigeon

Banned
The wing of the party supporting Keith Ellison over "safer" alternatives that wouldn't rustle feathers over religion and race?

Keith Ellison is definitely a good sign. That's probably why the majority of the Democratic Party supports him! I think the Perez movement seems pretty unnecessary -- I assume it's about trying to make sure being anti-free trade doesn't get ingrained into the Democratic platform, which would be pretty sad.

One good choice doesn't build complete trust or mean you can never be criticized again, though.
 

Sobriquet

Member
I can't imagine they'd be constitutional?

Supposedly the way they went about having the special session is unconstitutional (state Constitution). Lawyers are looking into it. As for the laws, probably not.

Just saw Joy Reid cover this on MSNBC. Hopefully it gains traction, because this is huge. So much contempt for their constituents!
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Chinese ambassador to U.S.: Sovereignty not a 'bargaining chip'
Beijing regards Taiwan as a renegade province and has never renounced the use of force to bring it under its control. China considers Taiwan independence a red line issue.

On Thursday, China's influential state-run tabloid the Global Times said China needed to take the lead in deciding the island's future.

"It is hoped that peace in the Taiwan Straits won't be disrupted. But the Chinese mainland should display its resolution to recover Taiwan by force. Peace does not belong to cowards," it said in an editorial.

tumblr_n2ws28UNWQ1rsrbdko10_500.gif
 
Out of curiosity, who is "telling minorities to wait"? If we're talking about Sanders position on the issue you reference, statements from him on it are readily available. Or are you mixing up that Colin Jost SNL joke (or that Mark Lilla guy writing for the NY Times) and assuming that it represents some large mass of people on the left? I mean, I'm sure somebody is saying it, but I tend to see it from the old centrist/Democratic Third Way/DLC types from the 90's (the type of people that Democrats in power have pandered to for years and of course have a long history of taking certain groups for granted and not addressing their issues until their forced to by grassroots movements), not from leftists.

Yes, I understand his statements on the issue. I also understand that Bernie Sanders spends far more time talking about economic issues first and foremost. I also understand that Bernie Sanders slammed Identity Politics. I also understand that Bernie Sanders really tried to avoid having that discussion in his Town Hall with Trump supporters.

He doesn't need to directly state it, for people to know what he is inferring.

As for the Third Way folks: They were the ones responsible for making this a Civil Rights friendly platform. I'm not going to blame them for actually trying. I'm not going to blame them for listening. I'm going to blame the Sanders folks who took their ball and went home.

What I do see more often nowadays is pointing out people who abuse and manipulate identity politics to in order to still support policies that end up harming those identities that people claim to care about. That seems pretty common on the left, but that's quite a bit different than saying "minorities need to wait" (never mind that there are plenty of minorities who, shocking news, do care about economic issues, and there are plenty of ways that oppression manifests itself economically that people would like to be solved)

Sure, can you name people who abuse and manipulate identity politics in order to support policies that people claim to care about? Only name that really comes to mind is Tulsi Gabbard.

As for economic issues, people knew what the Dems stood for:

-Higher Minimum Wage.
-Keep ACA.
-History of not being the party who rolls back labor reforms.

The white working class showed their true colors in this election. You already had a platform designed to help them. They didn't take the bait. They voted for no free trade. They voted for white nationalism.

Now, you want to double down on economic issues. Keep them first and foremost. To me, that means something else needs to be shoved to the side. That's identity politics. That's civil rights.
That shouldn't happen. The fight for civil rights needs to be stronger than ever now. It should still be first and foremost. Economic issues can take a back seat with the fact that the unemployment rate is below 5%.

Oh and spare me the talk about devoting equal time. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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