We can only hope, but then if he does Russia won't look at NATO the same way again.
Then again he does think NATO is nothing more that a protection racket.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
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We can only hope, but then if he does Russia won't look at NATO the same way again.
Then again he does think NATO is nothing more that a protection racket.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i was thinking -- why wouldnt china be pissed at russia for leaning the election to trump?
now that's some shit.
now that's some shit.
Abinash117
Member
It would the best and worst thing to happen.
Why would he choke? It's not like trump himself will be going to battle. Trump has no grasp of the consequences his actions have on others. More likely he'd just throw around military power as recklessly as he throws around violent rhetoric.
Recent YouGov/Economist poll from December 10-13
Some of the things I found interesting to note, though others are more than welcome to add their own spin to counter mine
-Very few people, across all demographics, think they're better off financially than a year ago. Most feel things are the same, or worse off
So, what's inflation and the price of goods been like in the past year? If wage's don't rise in-line with increasing costs, then even if people are still in the same roles, they'll be worse off. Even small rises in everyday items (bread, milk, margarine, cereal) affect how people feel about the economy... In fact, small increases in everyday items probably matter more, since you notice every time you go to the store.
Which would end-up with the unfavourables of W's war in Iraq/Afghanistan, but in the Far East. There's no way Trump could escape being the catalyst for destabilization of that region - hell, it would be his personal Vietnam (oh, the irony of avoiding the draft only to cause a whole new war!). He'd be gifting the next Presidency to the Dems, and depending upon when it happened, 2018 would be a whole new ball game.
Which isn't to say he won't do it, but it'd be crazy, even by Trump standards.
There's few things that the UK can say it does better than the US, but grassroots activism is probably one of them. People will organise protests about anything and everything (almost literally).
And_Gignac
Member
Barack Obama
Bernie Sanders
I don't know how this translates to the other favorability ratings we've seen. Like Obama is very favorable among Democrats, but also very unfavorable among Republicans. Independents are mostly a wash.
wooo and thats will all the liberal (centrist, whatever) smear machine going full on against him. What a King.
shinra-bansho
Member
What strategy is working? There's been little to no activity. Besides a book tour. Nothing is happening that would constitute a strategy.
He has personal favourability as a non-candidate/politician of some prominence but little real power. So does Michelle Obama. Or Bill Clinton. Or Hillary Clinton a couple years ago. Or Ellen DeGeneres.
It means essentially nothing with regard to actual electoral strategy and tactics.
Sure, trot him out as something of a mascot I guess. Provided he learns not to tactlessly pivot when asked about issues affecting minorities. I'm not really sure how apparently he speaks more "like a human" than other people.
But favourability isn't equivalent to agreement.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
More like a Furby, the same soundbites regardless of what you ask it.
Abinash117
Member
excelsiorlef
Member
What are you even talking about?
And_Gignac
Member
Just mocking this argument that Bernie is only popular because he hasn't been attacked by Republicans when he has been attacked and questioned by plenty of both liberal and conservative outlets, from Vox to The Economist to National Review.
For instance, the recent shit storms that happened when he made comments about identity politics and political correctness.
excelsiorlef
Member
You said smear machine... what smear machine.
Criticism of his pivot on the PC question isn't smearing it is legit criticism.
Post-election shit storm isn't the same as being hammered during a campaign. And news outlets - of either political side - aren't the same as the full-force of the RNC, GOP and Trump hitting a candidate repeatedly over a period of 5 straight months (and that's only counting from when Hillary reached the required number of votes during the primary).
And_Gignac
Member
By PC Bernie clearly meant how Trump is not a politically directed person in his speech. I don't know why so many liberals pundits took it as "Bernie is siding with racists and homophobes omgggg". That's kind of confirmation bias and smearing.
Like what does Bernie needs to do to prove that he is all in with minorities rights?
Sirpopopop
Member
After Sierra Blanca...
After his comments about Southern Democrats during the primary...
A lot more than any other Democrat.
whyamihere
Banned
You can't cede any part of the electorate, really.
Bernie gave up on black voters and Southerns in the primary and basically made it impossible to win. Hillary gave up on rural and exurb whites and lost enough to lost PA/WI/MI/FL.
That's... not even the same thing as during a GE campaign? Like, what?
Bernie gave up on black voters and Southerns in the primary and basically made it impossible to win. Hillary gave up on rural and exurb whites and lost enough to lost PA/WI/MI/FL.
That's... not even the same thing as during a GE campaign? Like, what?
He certainly hasn't done himself any favors.
This doesn't even make sense.
A good starting point would be to go two weeks without implying that social issues are unimportant.
I think you should worry less about that over other concerns.
Post-2008, I'm sure you could find posters who had still hated or disliked Hillary after that election. It's not as if Sanders has no chance, he needs to do better.
On the other hand, it feels impossible for you and other Hillary haters to ever like her. Somehow the privilege of hating Hillary is okay in your book, but Sanders should be given passes from criticism. It's yet another double standard.
excelsiorlef
Member
Answering that question about PC culture which at it's core is about racism/sexism in way that stands up for minorities would have been a good start
Like sorry his answer to that question was horrible and basically entirely sidestepped minorities in favour of more economics.
I feel Sanders has always come across like this. He may care a lot for minorities, but he rarely shows it, and when he does, it's through the prism of economics.
Interestingly, a lot of pro-Sanders posters on Gaf do the same thing. I'm sure the majority genuinely care about minorities and social issues, but everything comes back to economics with them. Perhaps this partially explains the Bernie supporters opinions of Hillary - they are unable to view her through anything other than anti-Wall Street/pro-socialism goggles?
excelsiorlef
Member
And his response after Hayes pushed him on the racism behind this anti PC stuff was equally bizarre as he then basically provided cover for Trump by saying that what Trump meant about PC was that the media doesn't reflect America....
Like huh?
It is moderately impressive how bizarre and bad both those answers were.
Yeah... It genuinely makes me wonder if Sanders has any real depth of knowledge or understanding about anything other than economics. Does he ever talk about race, religion, abortion, immigration? I've read what he's said about education and healthcare, but they're both easily understood through economics (at least to some extent).
balladofwindfishes
Member
How would he? He's a safe senator from a tiny white state.
excelsiorlef
Member
The Govenor of California?
Edit:
LOL you're talking about Sanders...
I'm keeping this up because the chain of conversation is inherently hilarious now
Aaron Strife
Banned
We'll just have to settle for Kamala.
Swear to god if she sent any private emails from an unauthorized server
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
How did I not see this yesterday? I knew the NYT talked about the hacking, but I had no idea about the SuperPAC's involvement.
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/14/gop...ort/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
I think the thing that squashes most of my hope for the future of this country is the fact that a foreign entity just interfered in a major election, and half the country turns their eyes away because their side won. They basically were slipped a $20 bill to turn away while somebody got the crap kicked out of them, and they went along with it.
People in this country seem to be easily bought and paid for.
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/14/gop...ort/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
I think the thing that squashes most of my hope for the future of this country is the fact that a foreign entity just interfered in a major election, and half the country turns their eyes away because their side won. They basically were slipped a $20 bill to turn away while somebody got the crap kicked out of them, and they went along with it.
People in this country seem to be easily bought and paid for.
teruterubozu
Member
He'd probably be dating Taylor Swift. I mean, he dated Linda Ronstadt, Stevie Nicks and Candice Bergen back in the day.
I wonder how Presidenr-Elect Putin feels about all of this #fakenews and #cialies coming out about him?
Oh. Here's my answer:
2m
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House waite so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?
863
2,282
12m
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
The media tries so hard to make my move to the White House, as it pertains to my business, so complex - when actually it isn't!
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Has anyone looked at the really poor numbers of @VanityFair Magazine. Way down, big trouble, dead! Graydon Carter, no talent, will be out!
8:05 AM · Dec 15, 2016
What did Vanity Fair do?
https://www.google.com/amp/www.vani...d-trump-inauguration-singer/amp?client=safari
Oh. Before long, Trump wil tweet out deaththreats to all of the news organizationa, his army will respond, and all that will be left is alt-wrong news.
Oh. Here's my answer:
2m
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
If Russia, or some other entity, was hacking, why did the White House waite so long to act? Why did they only complain after Hillary lost?
863
2,282
12m
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
The media tries so hard to make my move to the White House, as it pertains to my business, so complex - when actually it isn't!
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Has anyone looked at the really poor numbers of @VanityFair Magazine. Way down, big trouble, dead! Graydon Carter, no talent, will be out!
8:05 AM · Dec 15, 2016
What did Vanity Fair do?
https://www.google.com/amp/www.vani...d-trump-inauguration-singer/amp?client=safari
Oh. Before long, Trump wil tweet out deaththreats to all of the news organizationa, his army will respond, and all that will be left is alt-wrong news.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Why did White House waite
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Let's waite and see
But to answer him, It's a damned if you do/don't situation. If the WH did say anything before the election it would have been seen as partisan tactic.
dynamitejim
Member
They don't seem to realize, or want to acknowledge, that Russia helped Trump because they know he'll reduce American power and influence. They've completely bought into the propaganda that Hillary would've started WW3 with Russia while defending Trump antagonizing China at the same time.
...Iraq didn't cost W reelection and Vietnam didn't cost any president their reelection. Americans generally reelect wartime presidents.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Aaron Strife
Banned
Iraq was started under what seemed like legitimate pretenses.
I would like to think that Trump starting shit on Twitter that blows up (literally) into a war would drag him down considerably compared to Bush.
Fuck, a major enough backlash would probably just get him impeached.
But I also thought he would just lose straight out, so I'm not putting too much faith into it. Trump could nuke a US state at this point and still hold onto 45% of the vote.
I'm tempted to say that the public are far more aware of the cost of lives vs benefit of war since Iraq/Afghanistan. What was it - 11 years? 12? in the Middle East, fighting (and helping to fight) a ground war which has seen little measurable benefit for the American people, and varying benefit for the Iraqis and Afghans. I would hope that the raised awareness of PTSD and suicide rates amongst veterans would cause the general public to push-back against a warmonger president.
I also think that W's war was seen as "noble" (something it has in common with the Vietnam War, at least initially?). For right or wrong, the Western Forces were sold as bringing a measure of justice and stabilisation to an area (ridding the place of WMDs and all that), as well as an attempt to defeat Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
There's few ways Trump can spin militarily destabilisation in the South China Sea and surrounding area as a genuine Good. The only way I can see it is if the administration goes full-tilt at the "One China" policy, and demands independence of Taiwan and Tibet, and the cessation of the destruction of Uyghur culture and language. That, I think, would actually have a fair amount of public support, but is also a) unlikely reasoning from the Trump camp considering their unwillingness to be the world's policeman unless paid and b) actually derails the Far East into chaos - Japan and South Korea would find themselves in the unlikely situation of siding with China.
(not to be too argumentative, btw.
)Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Trump on Twitter: Wow! Bigly proof Iran is still building nuclear weapons, deal must be scrapped!
Iran: WTF
White House: Iran is violating the nuclear deal and must stop immediately or it is an existential threat to US allies and interests.
Iran: Dude, WTF
Congress: Due to evidence, we will order new sanctions and effectively end the disastrous deal by Obama, if Iran does not comply then it must be brought to justice.
Trump: Iranian vessels can no longer operate in the Strait of Hormuz until they stop all work on nuclear weapons.
Etc etc. Same shit as Bush will happen
What if it's not Iran, but China instead?
I mean, shit...
If Bernie really was "all in" with issues facing minorities, it really would be THAT easy to show it.
That he can't speaks volumes.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/democratic-chair-buttigieg-mayor-232532
Buttigieg is fantastic, so I'd love to see him involved in the DNC in some way. He'd be great doing the media rounds.
Politico said:
Buttigieg is fantastic, so I'd love to see him involved in the DNC in some way. He'd be great doing the media rounds.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Right now on tv?
Which is eminently more likely - Trump has a fucking hard-on for Iran, but the Iran deal stipulates independent observers ensuring Iran doesn't do anything crazy with its nuclear program (iirc).
But China... There's already military tensions in the South China Sea, and they could theoretically use Japan's newly-announced standing army as a reason to push more heavily into "international waters". Add Trump pushing-back against One China, and a willingness to at least talk-up a trade war, and they aren't going to sit-back and watch him do crazy-ass stuff, especially as their economy is slowing down.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Probably because I am on mobile.
Also, give it up. Electors aren't breaking for Clinton.
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