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[plagiarize]

I saw those people, got annoyed and rolled my eyes at them, and watched them (at different speeds) coalesce around Clinton even while knowing their vote was probably meaningless because of where they lived.

Now if they're mad because she lost, which is not the most unreasonable of reactions to have when told your candidate's biggest issues are his electability.

I caucused for Clinton! I have a Hillary sticker on my laptop I'm typing this on, and I dedicated 10-15 hours a week from August to November doing field work to try and get Democrats to vote. If they didn't vote or voted third party, sure, fuck 'em, but it's not like Bernie people were the only nasty ones during the primary.

The way I defined it, if they coalesced around Clinton they aren't Bernie Bros.

 

[studyguy]

I think she's got what it takes.

this chick dabbin fr rn

Anyway Harris, Duckworth, Kander, whatever take a pick give it a shot or don't. Just vote midterms in the meantime. Also don't dab on stage, ever.

 

[sturgboski]

No the democrats don't need to go to the far left to win the next presidential election. I think they need someone that can appeal to the base better then hilary did(i.e. someone that is charismatic, likeable and etc like Obama and Notley and Trudeau in Canada).

I think the Democracts need to be much less ignorant and be able to see the big picture. Republicans already view this as a binary Us vs Them and will vote for Republicans regardless of purity tests, etc. It's the delicate snowflakes in the Democratic party who cant put party above all else who voted 3rd party (which will never win and if you truly think 3rd parties had a shot, ask yourself why Sanders ran as a Democrat instead of 3rd party?) or chose not to vote at all are completely ignorant of what is important, what truly matters: ensuring the party that aligns closest with your beliefs (the party your idealized candidate aligns to by the way), the one of two parties with a chance of the white house, gets to to the white house and wins seats in Congress. Instead, its like we are comprised of petulant children who rather not engage or throw their vote in the toilet because "the candidate at the top of the ticket wasnt my chosen candidate, the candidate didnt excite me, etc." This was an election that was far too important for this reckless attitude and as a result we are reaping the "rewards" of it.

What we need to do? We need Democrats as a whole to realize that as long as the party as a whole aligns closest to what we hold as true values, we need to vote for that candidate. As much shit as people give Republicans, they have figured that out long ago while Democrats navel gaze.

 

[Sirpopopop]

People call Gore and Kerry terrible all the time even though they had much better EC performance, even in this thread. I like Gore and I think he's boring af

I think that's fine. That's a lot different than let's say (to use the most egregious example) the "YAAAAS QUEEN" mockery going on after the election.

Considering where the term originated and by whom it was championed, that level of mockery was some downright nasty shit.

And people did call Sanders all sorts of shit. They called all of his supporters Bernie Bros and Poligaf loved shitting on him. Sometimes, so did I! Remember how every time things started to look south during the general election that people decided it was a good time to start blaming Sanders?

I think it depends on where you draw the line. I'm not sure people used campaign slogans from Bernie to mock him. It was more along the lines of how he tore apart the party through his method of attack.

Again, I don't think Berniebros is that bad, since there was never a formal name for this group. That's a major problem, so we go with the only label we can use that people understand. You could say BoB, but no one ever wanted to lay claim to that one.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Bernie used most of the same attacks on Clinton that Obama did in 2008. "A future to believe in" is pretty much "Change you can believe in", where both is the implication that Clinton will sell her promises down the river. Both were big into championing their lack of Iraq vote. Both were populist on trade. Both were big on being outsiders who wouldn't triangulate just to get votes.

Sanders got nastier than Obama but that's mostly because Obama was in the lead most of the time. Clinton also got pretty nasty to Obama, and then moved to support him afterwards. Which is kind of what Bernie did!

 

[Crocodile]

I think the Democracts need to be much less ignorant and be able to see the big picture. Republicans already view this as a binary Us vs Them and will vote for Republicans regardless of purity tests, etc. It's the delicate snowflakes in the Democratic party who cant put party above all else who voted 3rd party (which will never win and if you truly think 3rd parties had a shot, ask yourself why Sanders ran as a Democrat instead of 3rd party?) or chose not to vote at all are completely ignorant of what is important, what truly matters: ensuring the party that aligns closest with your beliefs (the party your idealized candidate aligns to by the way), the one of two parties with a chance of the white house, gets to to the white house and wins seats in Congress. Instead, its like we are comprised of petulant children who rather not engage or throw their vote in the toilet because "the candidate at the top of the ticket wasnt my chosen candidate, the candidate didnt excite me, etc." This was an election that was far too important for this reckless attitude and as a result we are reaping the "rewards" of it.

What we need to do? We need Democrats as a whole to realize that as long as the party as a whole aligns closest to what we hold as true values, we need to vote for that candidate. As much shit as people give Republicans, they have figured that out long ago while Democrats navel gaze.

Since I've been old enough to vote, this is always how I viewed and treated voting. It perplexes and disappoints me that others don't feel the same way since at the end of the day its policy that matters most.

Bernie used most of the same attacks on Clinton that Obama did in 2008. "A future to believe in" is pretty much "Change you can believe in", where both is the implication that Clinton will sell her promises down the river. Both were big into championing their lack of Iraq vote. Both were populist on trade. Both were big on being outsiders who wouldn't triangulate just to get votes.

Sanders got nastier than Obama but that's mostly because Obama was in the lead most of the time. Clinton also got pretty nasty to Obama, and then moved to support him afterwards. Which is kind of what Bernie did!

I think the difference is that Clinton 08' never attacked the Democratic party itself. The "rigged" narrative of 2016 I felt did lingering damage. I feel that's what bothered most people during the primary. It caused some people, maybe not a lot in the end but some, to lose faith in the Democratic party as whole.

 

[GregLombardi]

I love how people are looking for "Presidential" democratic candidates.

All they need to do is run a better entertainer. That's because the American electorate is a cesspool that votes with their emotions and not with rational facts.

 

[plagiarize]

Bernie used most of the same attacks on Clinton that Obama did in 2008. "A future to believe in" is pretty much "Change you can believe in", where both is the implication that Clinton will sell her promises down the river. Both were big into championing their lack of Iraq vote. Both were populist on trade. Both were big on being outsiders who wouldn't triangulate just to get votes.

Sanders got nastier than Obama but that's mostly because Obama was in the lead most of the time. Clinton also got pretty nasty to Obama, and then moved to support him afterwards. Which is kind of what Bernie did!

We can debate whether or not Bernie crossed the line by using attacks that painted her as establishment, when clearly that's what was going to be used against her on the other side...

But as someone who acknowledges that she was at best right on that line campaigning against Obama, no one gets a free pass to the nomination and you've got to be able to withstand a primary campaign.

So I see it both ways. I think Bernie used some attacks that did hurt her in the general (and she soft balled the fuck out of him with an eye on the general)... but I don't think Bernie did anything unprecedented or clearly over the line either.

Yes, if he'd gone easier on her, it might have ended up differently, and his refusal to drop out, or drop that line of attack once Trump was clearly the GOP candidate was highly frustrating... but I don't think it was out of the question to do it.

I just wish he hadn't.

 

[Debirudog]

I mean...he took a damn long time than any GOP candidate to drop out even though the writing was on the wall. I'm not sure if Hillary did the same though.

 

[benjipwns]

Maybe the Democrats just need to run a campaign that doesn't assume they're a natural majority everywhere (the year we turn Texas and Utah blue!) with an unbreakable map in their favor.

Spoiler

Especially when both primaries indicate the models aren't working.

 

[Hillary Clinton]

Maybe the Democrats just need to run a campaign that doesn't assume they're a natural majority everywhere (the year we turn Texas and Utah blue!) with an unbreakable map in their favor.

Spoiler

Especially when both primaries indicate the models aren't working.

You can't blame us. All the non-probabilistic internet polling showed us ahead.

 

[benjipwns]

Probably should have paid closer attention to 2014 too. Remember all the toss-up seats? And how there was a "wall" in the map then? The GOP nearly ran the table on them just like Trump nearly ran the table on the swing states.

Including in gubernatorial races like Snyder and Scott Walker...

 

[whyamihere]

@CNN
Bill Clinton says Pres.-elect Trump "doesn't know much" but does know "how to get angry, white men to vote for him" http://cnn.it/2h4WV3j

👀

 

[Odrion]

Probably should have paid closer attention to 2014 too. Remember all the toss-up seats? And how there was a "wall" in the map then? The GOP nearly ran the table on them just like Trump nearly ran the table on the swing states.

huh, i guess the writing was on the wall

 

[sphagnum]

#MonMothma2020

 

[whyamihere]

Probably should have paid closer attention to 2014 too. Remember all the toss-up seats? And how there was a "wall" in the map then? The GOP nearly ran the table on them just like Trump nearly ran the table on the swing states.

Including in gubernatorial races like Snyder and Scott Walker...

Yeah but also Gary Peters won that open seat super easily with almost no outside help.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Maybe the Democrats just need to run a campaign that doesn't assume they're a natural majority everywhere (the year we turn Texas and Utah blue!) with an unbreakable map in their favor.

Spoiler

Especially when both primaries indicate the models aren't working.

Did the models get the Republican primary wrong? I thought it was just pundits going "Trump won't win because the party gets what the party wants." Which, granted, I believed too.

Trump was leading most polls IIRC - there weren't any major upsets like Michigan in the Dem primary, right?

 

[Debirudog]

👀

Well he ain't wrong.

 

[whyamihere]

Did the models get the Republican primary wrong? I thought it was just pundits going "Trump won't win because the party gets what the party wants." Which, granted, I believed too.

Trump was leading most polls IIRC - there weren't any major upsets like Michigan in the Dem primary, right?

Iowa, ish. Most polls had Trump ahead.

 

[Wilsongt]

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 11m11 minutes ago

We did it! Thank you to all of my great supporters, we just officially won the election (despite all of the distorted and inaccurate media).

Wow. Our president elect, can't stop taking potshots at the media, Fucked!

 

[Plinko]

IAFF endorsed Perez for DNC chair. Yet another one for him. This is going to be very contested.

 

[whyamihere]

‏@mikememoli
Hawaii Electoral College Results:
Hillary Clinton 3
Bernie Sanders 1

For VP:
Tim Kaine 3
Elizabeth Warren 1

Oh for fuck's sake.

IAFF endorsed Perez for DNC chair. Yet another one for him. This is going to be very contested.

Nah, I bet Ellison gets it pretty easily.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Bernie used most of the same attacks on Clinton that Obama did in 2008. "A future to believe in" is pretty much "Change you can believe in", where both is the implication that Clinton will sell her promises down the river. Both were big into championing their lack of Iraq vote. Both were populist on trade. Both were big on being outsiders who wouldn't triangulate just to get votes.

Sanders got nastier than Obama but that's mostly because Obama was in the lead most of the time. Clinton also got pretty nasty to Obama, and then moved to support him afterwards. Which is kind of what Bernie did!

Sanders did a two prong attack on the candidate and the party.

That's a scorched earth attack which doesn't leave much room open for reconciliation once you go down that route.

 

[plagiarize]

Sanders did a two prong attack on the candidate and the party.

That's a scorched earth attack which doesn't leave much room open for reconciliation once you go down that route.

He reconciled, but he'd poisoned too many of his supporters to get them to follow along with him. I don't think we ever get them back at this point, without doing greater harm to the party.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

👀

Hes not wrong

Bill exploited the same angry white men to vote for him.

 

[Odrion]

You know the white guys who still won't let it go that he lost the primaries?

Those are the Bernie Bros. The people who didn't put their moral superiority in front of doing something they didn't want to do for the greater good... the majority of Sanders supporters who ended up voting Clinton whether they liked her or not?

Those aren't Bernie Bros.

But Bernie Bros remain a real thing. I'm still dealing with them on facebook most days. If you don't know any of the people who started yelling 'rigged' when a few insignificant coin flips didn't go their way, and who are still doing it today... good for you.

eeeeh overzealous candidate supporters exist. that's what those are.

bernie bros was a tactic used to try and paint as many bernie supporters as "white men who despised identity politics" as possible

black lives matter did a protest at a bernie rally and white people did the thing that white people do during black protests and complained about their disruption and a venn diagram of "white bernie supporters who don't understand civil rights protests" was created and the clinton campaign saw the opportunity and ran with it. all you got to do is put pressure on some white guys, they say some stupid white shit, and then you use that to paint the whole group. repeat until minority support of the candidate stagnants and the candidate loses.

which is fine. it's the fucking election, you do that shit. you either play hard ball or get fucked.

but now the election has come and gone and abuela got slayed by a cursed gourd and we all lost and got fucked hard. but there's still people who are not only still bought into that shit, but are now connecting socialist policies (or "populism" or "economic politics" or w/e you want to call "not let the poor get fucked by the rich") with being anti-idpol.

and that sucks!

 

[Aaron Strife]

He reconciled, but he'd poisoned too many of his supporters to get them to follow along with him. I don't think we ever get them back at this point, without doing greater harm to the party.

The solution is to let Ellison run the show and shut the fuck up for four years. Ellison supported Sanders and will likely be able to get some reforms through the DNC primary process, so this will probably be enough of a gesture to 90-95% of Sanders supporters - frankly the remainder were never on our side.

Meanwhile Ellison has enough of a foot in reality and the establishment politics that I doubt he throws the party under the bus over purity politics anytime soon. His endorsement of Sanders was significant imo because while he represents a very dark blue district, he's been involved with the party politics long enough that his endorsement represented more than some yahoo trying to get attention.

 

[plagiarize]

eeeeh overzealous candidate supporters exist. that's what those are.

bernie bros was a tactic used to try and paint as many bernie supporters as "white men who despised identity politics" as possible

black lives matter did a protest at a bernie rally and white people did the thing that white people do during black protests and complain about their disruption and a venn diagram of "white bernie supporters who don't understand civil rights protests" was created and the clinton campaign saw the opportunity and ran with it. all you got to do is put pressure on some white guys, they say some stupid white shit, and then you use that to paint the whole group. repeat until minority support of the candidate stagnants and the candidate loses.

which is fine. it's the fucking election, you do that shit. you either play hard ball or get fucked.

but now the election has come and gone and abuela got slayed by a cursed gourd. but there's still people who are not only still bought into that shit, but are now connecting socialist policies (or "populism" or "economic politics" or w/e you want to call "not let the poor get fucked by the rich") with being anti-idpol.

and that kinda sucks!

I didn't like him because he was a white nationalist. Bernie's problems with black voters didn't stem from people labelling his supporters as Bernie Bros.

 

[pigeon]

People who believe like me that socialism and social justice are fundamentally linked should've spent more time last year arguing with the people who unironically told me that class issues were more important than race and would fix everything

Because I ran into a few of those people around here and I sure didn't see any Bernie supporters talking to them then about setting up a false dilemma

That would help their attempt to seize a moral high ground now

 

[VendettaRed07]

Sanders did a two prong attack on the candidate and the party.

That's a scorched earth attack which doesn't leave much room open for reconciliation once you go down that route.

And Obama didn't go scorched earth?

Honestly lets be real, would 08 Obama let the fact that Hillary was under investigation by the FBI and her whole email scandal go like Bernie basically did? Like are we just forgetting how he beat her over the head with anything he could possibly use? He would have ran ads with her behind bars himself and fear mongered the " so we are just going to elect someone who might be thrown in jail?" thing as much as he could have. Bernie was a lot softer than people give him credit for.

He did ramp it up as it went on but he was also provoked when the party basically said it was his fault the Sandy Hook children were murdered and dumped the blood of elementary school kids on his hands.

 

[Odrion]

we need to bring back the rainbow coalition

 

[plagiarize]

we need to bring back the rainbow coalition

The greens are anti science Russian puppet crazy people?

 

[Debirudog]

Hes not wrong

Bill exploited the same angry white men to vote for him.

A Southerner like Bill was one of the very few people who actually regarded the minority vote much higher than those before him. I don't think Bill ever went as nationalistic as Trump, he just had empathy for the south since he was from there too.

 

[Odrion]

The greens are anti science Russian puppet crazy people?

that's what the fbi wants you to think

 

[plagiarize]

People who believe like me that socialism and social justice are fundamentally linked should've spent more time last year arguing with the people who unironically told me that class issues were more important than race and would fix everything

Because I ran into a few of those people around here and I sure didn't see any Bernie supporters talking to them then about setting up a false dilemma

That would help their attempt to seize a moral high ground now

Right. Because what I heard from Bernie was basically 'we need to help poor white people, and the minorities are going to vote for us whether we cater to them or not, because what are they going to do, vote GOP?'.

Ignoring that minority issues go way beyond how much money they have in their bank account is why he couldn't get black voters on board.

 

[whyamihere]

Final count:

304 Trump
227 Clinton
3 Colin Powell
1 Bernie Sanders
1 John Kasich
1 Ron Paul
1 Faith Spotted Eagle

 

[ImpracticalPassword]

@CNN
Bill Clinton says Pres.-elect Trump "doesn't know much" but does know "how to get angry, white men to vote for him" http://cnn.it/2h4WV3j

That's a surprisingly impolitic tone for a former president to take with a president-elect, even given the intensely personal nature of this situation. I don't remember if he said things like this about W after Gore conceded...

 

[plagiarize]

that's what the fbi wants you to think

I'm sort of basing it on Jill Stein cozying up to Russia and Putin every chance she got, and attacking Clinton left right and center, and claiming she would be worse than Trump.

I'm not sure what the FBI have said on the matter.

 

[213372bu]

"Third-party leaning voters don't matter in the election"
"Bernie is a white nationalist saboteur"
"We actually gained ground this election"
"America voted for Trump because he was a lying clown and didn't want to listen to facts. Not because he exploited both radicals and people that the Democrats were taking for granted."
"Let's run another entertainer in 2020, that'll work"

Do some of you guys know how you sound?

 

[whyamihere]

"Third-parties don't matter in the election"
"Bernie is a white nationalist saboteur"
"We actually gained ground this election"
"America voted for Trump because he was a lying clown and didn't want to listen to facts. Not because he exploited both radicals and people that the Democrats were taking for granted."
"Let's run another entertainer in 2020, that'll work"

Do some of you guys know how you sound?

I don't know if any of those things in quotes were actually said?

 

[benjipwns]

brb starting change.org petition for Joe to block the electoral vote in the Senate and seize the Presidency

 

[Dan]

And people think i'm silly when I say that both the Dems/DNC are in a messy state and will not be winning elections until they sort themselves out.

So damn frustrating. So many purists and people who care more about feeling good about their special snowflake status than actually accomplishing anything.

I think she's got what it takes.

It was a bold move for Loretta Sanchez to directly appeal to 7th graders during the debate.

 

[213372bu]

I don't know if any of those things in quotes were actually said?

All of that's been said today

 

[whyamihere]

All of that's been said today

Those are direct quotes of things that were said today? Where?

 

[213372bu]

Those are direct quotes of things that were said today? Where?

Not direct quotes, but it's been said either by this thread or people who have gone out to the faithless elector thread from here.

 

[whyamihere]

Not direct quotes, but it's been said either by this thread or people who have gone out to the faithless elector thread from here.

I mean, so those things haven't been said here, and they weren't actually said and you're paraphrasing. Don't do that. No one has actually said: "Bernie is a white nationalist saboteur"

 

[213372bu]

I mean, so those things haven't been said here, and they weren't actually said and you're paraphrasing. Don't do that. No one has actually said: "Bernie is a white nationalist saboteur"

No, most of it's been said here maybe one line outside this thread.

Bernie's been called a white nationalist here and been accused of being a non-Dem that hijacked the party to irreparable damage.

 

[Suikoguy]

Wow 213372bu, you could at least attempt to disguise you are trying to stir up shit.

 

[whyamihere]

No, most of it's been said here maybe one line outside this thread.

Bernie's been called a white nationalist here and been accused of hijacking the party to irreparable damage and not being a true Dem.

Again: where was Bernie called a white nationalist saboteur? Did I miss it?

 

[Odrion]

I'm sort of basing it on Jill Stein cozying up to Russia and Putin every chance she got, and attacking Clinton left right and center, and claiming she would be worse than Trump.

I'm not sure what the FBI have said on the matter.

the other way around