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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
House Republicans Propose Rules to Punish Broadcasting, Photography From Chamber Floor
House Republicans have proposed punishing representatives who shoot video or take photos on the floor of the chamber — a change in rules seen as a direct response to a dramatic sit-in in June by House Democrats demanding a vote on gun control legislation that was streamed live online.

The new policy would result in members of Congress being fined up to $2,500 for digital photography, audio or visual recording or broadcasting on the House floor.

"These changes will help ensure that order and decorum are preserved in the House of Representatives so lawmakers can do the people's work," Ashlee Strong, a spokeswoman for House Speaker Paul Ryan, said in a statement Monday.

...

The newly proposed policy, which would have to be approved by the full House when they return in January, would fine a member $500 for the first offense and $2,500 for any subsequent offenses. The funds would be taken out of the member's net salary.
Republicans want to make sure the public can't see what goes on in the House.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Watch 2016 be a dry run for 2017.

2016 destroyed your hopes and dreams, 2017 is going to throw you into crushing despair.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 16h16 hours ago

The DJT Foundation, unlike most foundations, never paid fees, rent, salaries or any expenses. 100% of money goes to wonderful charities!
14,834 replies 10,702 retweets 43,444 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 16h16 hours ago

I gave millions of dollars to DJT Foundation, raised or recieved millions more, ALL of which is given to charity, and media won't report!

The charities of your legal fees?
 

alternade

Member
Whew! That coal miner thread is a hoot! Saw that story this morning and it gave me a hearty laugh. You wanted to burn, so lets burn together baby.
 
I think we should cave and use their argument in our framework. If they wanna argue that people are fraudulently voting in mass numbers, and we need to have voter ID, then instead of just trying to stop it completely, push for a free National ID that we send to every American (and since we can get a tax return for every American, we can saturate the US with these IDs).

They lose their dog whistle if we do that. Any obstruction to this would have to admit they don't want everyone voting.
Judging by President Bill Clinton, the left really hates triaging.

Of course they also hate winning so
 
There's no way that either Trump or Hillary could've done better in Florida. They both maxed out their respective bases. The reason why Florida might be a decent amount of time from trending fully blue is that Snowbirds are still moving to Florida in droves. But the panhandle is also not growing nearly as fast as the blue parts of the state, and Republicans in Florida need the Panhandle + Older Influx to make up for the increased blue lean of the southern part of the state.

At some point, the scales will tip one way or the other. It's pretty hard for something to stay at parity for that long, and my guess is Florida will eventually go the way of Ohio (as in, becomes something that they end up losing by a wide amount in an upcoming election and is seen as "lost forever"). I just don't know when that happens.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Trump's going to be lying about his charitable contributions until the day he dies.
 
There's no way that either Trump or Hillary could've done better in Florida. They both maxed out their respective bases. The reason why Florida might be a decent amount of time from trending fully blue is that Snowbirds are still moving to Florida in droves. But the panhandle is also not growing nearly as fast as the blue parts of the state, and Republicans in Florida need the Panhandle + Older Influx to make up for the increased blue lean of the southern part of the state.

At some point, the scales will tip one way or the other. It's pretty hard for something to stay at parity for that long, and my guess is Florida will eventually go the way of Ohio (as in, becomes something that they end up losing by a wide amount in an upcoming election and is seen as "lost forever"). I just don't know when that happens.

I'm pretty sure we need to actually go and convince Cubans that the GOP is bad and Cubans will be discriminated against in Trump's America.

Changing people's minds is important and it shouldn't be as hard when people are about to directly suffer under the candidate they voted for.

We should also set up a door to door canvassing thing where we go and talk to seniors about how Trump is screwing them after he causes inflation.
 
I'm pretty sure we need to actually go and convince Cubans that the GOP is bad and Cubans will be discriminated against in Trump's America.

Changing people's minds is important and it shouldn't be as hard when people are about to directly suffer under the candidate they voted for.

It's pretty hard to change older people's minds about politics, and younger Cubans are much more Democratic. So there's that. But yeah.
 
Also, you can't take demographics changes as necessarily destiny. I think that was a bit of a failing on the Clinton campaign's fault.
This is my biggest takeaway from the election (well, along with just how racist my country apparently is), and why it drives me nuts when people obsess over a future map where the Sunbelt makes a permanent Democratic majority.
 
It's pretty hard to change older people's minds about politics, and younger Cubans are much more Democratic. So there's that. But yeah.

But older Cubans have been considered white before.

They're not considered white in Trump's America.

It might be easier to change the views of old people's minds who just experienced a major status change.
 
This is my biggest takeaway from the election (well, along with just how racist my country apparently is), and why it drives me nuts when people obsess over a future map where the Sunbelt makes a permanent Democratic majority.

Yeah, like, obviously demographic changes could potentially make North Carolina bluer. But what if the rural parts of the country get even redder? It could happen -- 70/30 is different than 80/20 or 90/10. And then there's New England, which will have the bottom drop out eventually due to the flight of young people from every state but Massachusetts and southern Connecticut.

It just means that you can't count on those changes to save you. Republicans cannot as well.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Judging by President Bill Clinton, the left really hates triaging.

Of course they also hate winning so
Why would I want to win if it means compromising my firmly held religious beliefs on proper labeling of gmo soybeans?!

Don't tell me lgbt may get hurt, there was a court thing and my gay friend got married. Married!

/s
 
Also, like 10% of white people in the Rust Belt know any non-white people and we should probably try to build empathy with "hey, this Trump/Sessions policy affected my black friend" canvassing.
 

Ogodei

Member
Also, like 10% of white people in the Rust Belt know any non-white people and we should probably try to build empathy with "hey, this Trump/Sessions policy affected my black friend" canvassing.

They don't care about your black friend, they only care if they have one (and even then, it really depends on the policy, because they would just justify their black friend as "one of the good ones" who doesn't need to worry about the police or whatever else).

The game for the rust belt is getting the economic wing of the left back up and running after years of neglect. Minimum wage hikes, mandatory family leave (branding it as maternity leave is a mistake, imo, makes it sound exclusionary to men, and making it general parental leave is more progressive than just maternity leave anyway), promises to expand Social Security benefits and medicare benefits and to bring the pharmaceutical industry to heel.

I don't doubt that many out there are simply too racist to ever vote D again, but there are plenty of inactive voters who've lost hope and just need a spark back in their candidates.
 
They don't care about your black friend, they only care if they have one (and even then, it really depends on the policy, because they would just justify their black friend as "one of the good ones" who doesn't need to worry about the police or whatever else).

The game for the rust belt is getting the economic wing of the left back up and running after years of neglect. Minimum wage hikes, mandatory family leave (branding it as maternity leave is a mistake, imo, makes it sound exclusionary to men, and making it general parental leave is more progressive than just maternity leave anyway), promises to expand Social Security benefits and medicare benefits and to bring the pharmaceutical industry to heel.

I don't doubt that many out there are simply too racist to ever vote D again, but there are plenty of inactive voters who've lost hope and just need a spark back in their candidates.

I mean, I think it's good to probably try at least. I don't know if there have been studies on if talking about your black friend was persuasive, but talking about your transgender friends was persuasive in studies.

I don't know what can be done policy-wise to revitalize the Rust Belt before 2020 since we won't have power before then.
 
Also, like 10% of white people in the Rust Belt know any non-white people and we should probably try to build empathy with "hey, this Trump/Sessions policy affected my black friend" canvassing.

They don't give a shit. Appealing to the empathy of people who voted for a racist sexist bigot is not a good idea. That's not to say all Trump voters are bad people, I'd imagine there's a good portion that would abandon him if a better alternative is presented in four years. But a far larger portion will vote for him no matter what and likes the fact that Trump says what they think, and wasn't punished for it (to the contrary, he won).

I wish people would stop acting like this is the end, there's nothing we can do but beg mercy from our* oppressors, etc. It's like people don't want to look within and rebuild solidarity, support, and organize. There is no easy way out of this, work has to be done.

*Seems like this is coming mainly from out of touch white progressives. Most black people are too smart to think their oppressors are going to give them a respite. These guys are literally palling with Nazis and racists. Come on.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
At least Drumpf worked.

Easily the dumbest thing against him the entire election. Hardly anybody knew what it meant. Had nowhere near the effect of "Crooked Hillary," "Lyin' Ted," and "Little Marco."
 
Easily the dumbest thing against him the entire election. Hardly anybody knew what it meant. Had nowhere near the effect of "Crooked Hillary," "Lyin' Ted," and "Little Marco."

Those are things from Trump, though. Drumpf was a dumb thing that millennials did that they thought would work for some reasons I don't quite understand.

I mean a lot of these are things that the HRC campaign tried to do, just monumentally worse.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
I'm pretty sure we need to actually go and convince Cubans that the GOP is bad and Cubans will be discriminated against in Trump's America.

Changing people's minds is important and it shouldn't be as hard when people are about to directly suffer under the candidate they voted for.

We should also set up a door to door canvassing thing where we go and talk to seniors about how Trump is screwing them after he causes inflation.

This won't happen because Cuban Americans mostly live in areas where Cuban Americans have political control. The majority of our politicians are of Cuban descent, as are a disproportionate plurality of our professionals.

Many Cuban Americans would welcome a deportation push against illegal immigrants, because there is almost zero Hispanic solidarity here, especially among older Cubans.
 

Crocodile

Member
Easily the dumbest thing against him the entire election. Hardly anybody knew what it meant. Had nowhere near the effect of "Crooked Hillary," "Lyin' Ted," and "Little Marco."

In addition to being stupid, It was also kind of racist (making fun of his German heritage). If we are going to slam Trump for being racist, which he is, I'd rather not do it while being blatantly racist.
 
edit: Thought I was editing my prior post, sorry for the double post!

They don't give a shit. Appealing to the empathy of people who voted for a racist sexist bigot is not a good idea. That's not to say all Trump voters are bad people, I'd imagine there's a good portion that would abandon him if a better alternative is presented in four years. But a far larger portion will vote for him no matter what and likes the fact that Trump says what they think, and wasn't punished for it (to the contrary, he won).

I wish people would stop acting like this is the end, there's nothing we can do but beg mercy from our* oppressors, etc. It's like people don't want to look within and rebuild solidarity, support, and organize. There is no easy way out of this, work has to be done.

*Seems like this is coming mainly from out of touch white progressives. Most black people are too smart to think their oppressors are going to give them a respite. These guys are literally palling with Nazis and racists. Come on.

Yes, talking about a large scale volunteer and organizing thing is not organizing and is an easy way out.

I mean, things can be tried. Phone banking is basically worthless and we spent a few tens of thousands of hours doing that in 2016, we have a few man hours we can use to experiment.
 
Ah, here is a map of the 2015 Knesset results. It's in Hebrew but you get the idea.

http://z.ynet.co.il/short/content/2015/elections_map2015/

Blue - Likud (Center Right) - 30
Red - Zionist Camp (Left - Social Democrat) - 24
Dark Green - Joint List (Coalition of Communists, Ba'athists, and Islamists) - 14
Orange - Yesh Atid (Center Left) - 11
Purple - Kulanu (Center) - 10
Dark Blue - Bayit Yehudi (Right - Religious) - 8
Brown - Shas (Sephardi Chareidi interest) - 7
Gold - United Torah Judaism (Ashkenazi Chareidi interest) - 6
Lavender - Yisrael Beiteinu (Right - Russian interest) - 6
Light Green - Meretz (Left - Socialist) - 4
Dark Grey - Yachad (Far Right) - did not pass threshold

Likud did VERY well in the settlements in the West Bank. Really, Zionist Union has a hard time winning because it doesn't seem like they can perform in Jerusalem. They only got 10.1% of the vote there versus 34.3% in Tel Aviv (and the Leftist party got 13.1% of the vote in Tel Aviv). Meretz only got 4% of the vote in Jerusalem.

This could just embolden Likud.

Utah has a Senate race in 2018, I'm going to call Dem officials here and bring up McMuffin as an Independent candidate.

He should run as a Republican. I bet he'd get through the primary.
 
I'm guessing that after papers are published in polisci journals about this election, the marginal effect of $50 million of advertising Hillary spent will be estimated to have given her a boost of 0.1 or 0.2 points.

We're basically burning money in these campaigns by spending more than is necessary on advertising and GOTV and can use some of the money we're wasting to run low probability, but high reward experiments.
 
The game for the rust belt is getting the economic wing of the left back up and running after years of neglect. Minimum wage hikes, mandatory family leave (branding it as maternity leave is a mistake, imo, makes it sound exclusionary to men, and making it general parental leave is more progressive than just maternity leave anyway), promises to expand Social Security benefits and medicare benefits and to bring the pharmaceutical industry to heel.

All of this requires tax hikes, which they'll never support. What the country needs (and I don't care which party, but the country needs to hear) is that reality does not give a single solitary shit about what you believe. Things like climate change, automation, bad health coverage, etc... All of these things aren't going to respond to your vote or your chosen strongman.

Here in rural Mississippi, I am sooooooo fucking tired of hearing "we'll make everything better by getting back to One Nation Under God" as if our cultural diversity is why they have GEDs and no job skills that a relatively cheap hunk of metal can't do.

It'll take a fuckton of charisma, but we need a high level official (doesn't have to be President I suppose) who can still get votes and browbeat the public into being better citizens. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" is the tone I'm talking about. We (not just Dems, but any govt leader) can't do anything for these rural people other than tax people or improve their skillsets. They just voted for option 3; believe really really hard that you're not actually obsolete right now and the Job Fairy will come and open a plant in your town that doesn't use robots at all.

Option 3 is a sham, and until they reject it, we can't do shit to help. It's a democracy, after all.
 
Russia, Pakistan, and China are now referring to the Taliban as a non-terror group while claiming that ISIS is a major threat in Afghanistan (they're not).

Things are about to get so bad in Afghanistan. Russia helping the Taliban while thousands of Americans are still in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban....

Russia, China and Pakistan warned on Tuesday that the influence of Islamic State (IS) was growing in Afghanistan and that the security situation there was deteriorating.

Representatives from the three countries, meeting in Moscow, also agreed to invite the Afghan government to such talks in the future, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

"(The three countries) expressed particular concern about the rising activity in the country of extremist groups including the Afghan branch of IS," ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told reporters after the meeting.

The United States, which still has nearly 10,000 troops in Afghanistan more than 15 years after the Islamist Taliban were toppled by U.S.-backed Afghan forces, was not invited to the Moscow talks.

The gathering, the third in a series of consultations between Russia, China and Pakistan that has so far excluded Kabul, is likely to deepen worries in Washington that it is being sidelined in negotiations over Afghanistan's future.

Officials in Kabul and Washington have said that Russia is deepening its ties with Taliban militants fighting the government, though Moscow has denied providing aid to the insurgents.

Zakharova said Russia, China and Pakistan had "noted the deterioration of the security situation (in Afghanistan)".

The three countries agreed a "flexible approach to remove certain figures from sanctions lists as part of efforts to foster a peaceful dialogue between Kabul and the Taliban movement," she added.

http://in.reuters.com/article/afghanistan-taliban-russia-pakistan-chin-idINKBN14G19H

People replying to that tweet are literally bragging about trump doing barely better then romney with AA's even though that is questionable with the data we have from upshot.

Trump did better relatively but that's because a lot of black millennials didn't trust Hillary and thus didn't vote. I don't think he increased his vote total with African Americans, but Hillary lost black voters who stayed home (making Trump do better in the proportion).
 

mo60

Member
Trump did better relatively but that's because a lot of black millennials didn't trust Hillary and thus didn't vote. I don't think he increased his vote total with African Americans, but Hillary lost black voters who stayed home (making Trump do better in the proportion).

Yep. I know that. We do have data from upshot/nytimes even though it may be a bit incomplete that shows that trump did a bit worse then romney with black voters.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Just let Russia have their shot at Afghanistan. We can't fix it and theyll inevitably get bogged down in another disastrous war there.
 
Just let Russia have their shot at Afghanistan. We can't fix it and theyll inevitably get bogged down in another disastrous war there.

I mean, they did have their shot at Afghanistan in the 1980s... They installed a communist leader in 1978 in a coup and that's what started this war which is entering its 38th (!!!) year.

But there's too much political pressure on too many people to leave Afghanistan right now and if Russia weapons or intelligence used by the Taliban kill American soldiers in Afghanistan, things are going to get so bad, so fast.
 
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