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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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C

Crocodile

Member
PBY said:
Does anyone think this Russia stuff is a loser?

Not sure how they ascended to boogeyman status so quickly, and not sure it helps to continuously hammer this point. They are a fucked up country with a fucked up leader.

There are a lot of countries like this. I understand that we are not crossing lines, but sprinting past them at this point, and its fine to criticize that. Just feel like the left has started down the path of a new cold war, whereas we deal with a lot of fucked up countries.
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I mean other countries didn't fuck with our election. Other countries aren't trying to fuck with the elections of several European nations. Most other countries don't have their hands in the Middle East. What do you propose the Left do? Ignore Russia? Pretend what they did to us or are doing in other places in the world isn't happening? Let Trump try to sell out to them (in part because he finds Putin appealing and in part because he might owe Russian interests lots of money)?

Good Job Bob said:
It's real.
Click to expand...

LOL I just assumed it was photoshop

LMAO
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
PBY said:
Does anyone think this Russia stuff is a loser?

Not sure how they ascended to boogeyman status so quickly, and not sure it helps to continuously hammer this point. They are a fucked up country with a fucked up leader.

There are a lot of countries like this. I understand that we are not crossing lines, but sprinting past them at this point, and its fine to criticize that. Just feel like the left has started down the path of a new cold war, whereas we deal with a lot of fucked up countries.
Click to expand...

You might have an argument, if not for Ukraine and Georgia.

The situation with Russia started with Russia.
 
T

tedrotheredro

Member
PBY said:
Does anyone think this Russia stuff is a loser?

Not sure how they ascended to boogeyman status so quickly, and not sure it helps to continuously hammer this point. They are a fucked up country with a fucked up leader.

There are a lot of countries like this. I understand that we are not crossing lines, but sprinting past them at this point, and its fine to criticize that. Just feel like the left has started down the path of a new cold war, whereas we deal with a lot of fucked up countries.
Click to expand...

If Trump would just shut the hell up about the Russians and Wikileaks and admit they did some hacking, this wouldn't be as big of a deal as it is. He just can't admit it, either because of his own stupidity, selfishness or, far worse, he's compromised in some way.

Trump's disregard for the IC is what is freaking people out worse than Russia hacking our institutions. The hacking is expected, our president siding with the hackers isn't. But I do agree if this somehow fades away and no link is confirmed and no corruption is there, it's definitely a losing issue in the end, and it will only distract and repudiate arguments against his actions in the future.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
This is a winning issue because it provokes Trump to provoke the Deep State and then the Deep State will leak information about Republicans to help Dems win elections as payback against Trump trashing their reputation.

Post-2016 norms are so frightening and terrifying.
 
F

faisal233

Member
PBY said:
Does anyone think this Russia stuff is a loser?

Not sure how they ascended to boogeyman status so quickly, and not sure it helps to continuously hammer this point. They are a fucked up country with a fucked up leader.

There are a lot of countries like this. I understand that we are not crossing lines, but sprinting past them at this point, and its fine to criticize that. Just feel like the left has started down the path of a new cold war, whereas we deal with a lot of fucked up countries.
Click to expand...

No, the Russia stuff isn't a loser. If Trump was a halfway decent politician then he could have easily defused it. Instead he continues to inflame the situation. I can't imagine the intelligence community is happy about being shit on every day and will cause long term issues for President Trump.

We are not starting down the path of a new cold war, it already arrived when Russia interfered in our election.

I see liberals have learned nothing from the GOP. Continually hammering a point home for year works, especially when it has some truth to it. Trump's action alone brings enough legitimacy to all the Russia talking points. And just like the GOP managed to paint HRC as crooked Hillary, we need to constantly hammer home that traitorous Trump is willing to destroy decades of US foreign policy for personal / Exxon Mobil's benefit.

Keep you base enraged, demoralize the GOP base. Win elections.
 
A

Armoured Priest

Member
Suikoguy said:
You might have an argument, if not for Ukraine and Georgia.

The situation with Russia started with Russia.
Click to expand...

Also, Russian military build up in Kaliningrad.

http://www.rferl.org/a/kremlin-defends-military-buildup-in-kaliningrad/28132886.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-06/putin-s-military-buildup-in-the-baltic-stokes-invasion-fears


My gf (She was a poli-sci major and continues to watch Europe and Asia closely) believes Russia backed off on Turkey after the assassination of the ambassador, because Putin didn't want to use up his protest budget before taking a stab at taking the Baltics back under Kremlin control. Also probably wanted to wait for Trump to get into office for obvious reasons.
 
F

Finalizer

Member
if trump hadn't turned the republican base against their own establishment, we'd probably be seeing a #romneywasright hashtag going around right about now
 
F

faisal233

Member
BTW I think the OCE fiasco proves that democrats shouldn't worry about McConnell nuking the filibuster and obstruct whenever necessary.

The house is full of crazies that will push through bills that will get Republicans primaried if they vote against, and not elected if they vote for. The filibuster is the only thing saving the GOP from their insane wing and McConnell knows that. Ryan has no control of the house.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Good Job Bob said:
j7f10ZL.jpg


lmao
Click to expand...

Someone photoshoped it with the Josh Marshall tweet from this weekend. lol
 
C

chadskin

Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
Has anyone other than McCain opposed Tillerson? I assume Graham would if McCain is but we still need one more for that.
Click to expand...

Rubio has voiced "serious concerns."

And I'm still holding out hope Rand Paul sees the irony in criticizing Powell for going into Iraq in order to benefit his former oil company, only to confirm the CEO of fucking Exxon Mobil as SoS a decade later.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Plinko said:
"Forget what I said and how I acted over the past 20 years and only listen to what I said in the last 5 days."
Click to expand...

Eh. I despise tillerson for his climate change activities but SoS have been a lot different than previous actions in previous jobs.

The issue is they do the bidding of the president, which is the problem, rather than his past views IMO. He'd fight climate change if he was asked by a president who wanted to fight it.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
NYCmetsfan said:
Eh. I despise tillerson for his climate change activities but SoS have been a lot different than previous actions in previous jobs.

The issue is they do the bidding of the president, which is the problem, rather than his past views IMO. He'd fight climate change if he was asked by a president who wanted to fight it.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure a SoS that wants personal vengeance against Venezuela is bad to have in an era where Venezuela is inches away from collapsing.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Why does the House/Senate still not have a digital solution for displays? So much money spent on printed posters.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Dan said:
Why does the House/Senate still not have_____.
Click to expand...

Is I'm sure a very common question these days.
Also someone probably catalogs all this paperwork at some level for record keeping in physical form despite you know... digital records existing.
 
T

thefro

Member
Starting to seem like the worm is turning.

Dems on offense, Republicans running around disorganized.

If Trump actually pivots he'll be okay, but we may seem him hit some roadblocks pretty quickly.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Ooooooooooooooooh

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/us/tom-perriello-virginia-governor.html?_r=0

Mr. Perriello, a State Department official who is close to President Obama, has told several Democrats that he is close to deciding whether to run in the party’s June 13 primary, according to two Democratic strategists familiar with the conversations.

Virginia and New Jersey hold their governor’s races the year after presidential elections, and the contests are often looked to for clues about the mood of the electorate toward the party that controls the White House. Democrats are heavily favored to win in New Jersey this November, but the Virginia race is likely to be hard-fought, with both parties expected to pour millions into the state.

Mr. Perriello did not respond to a voice mail and text message on Wednesday. If he were to enter the race to succeed Gov. Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat who is limited to a single term, Mr. Perriello could upend Mr. McAuliffe’s effort to avert a contentious primary. Leading Democrats have sought to clear the field for Lt. Gov. Ralph S. Northam, hoping to give him a head start in fund-raising and organization while at least three Republicans vie for the nomination.

A run by Mr. Perriello would also expose the tensions between the moderate and progressive wings of a party that is increasingly dominant in a once-conservative state.

For decades, Virginia Democrats took care to distinguish themselves from their more liberal national party and present themselves as prudent centrists. But having carried Virginia in each of the last three presidential elections and controlling every statewide office, some Democratic activists there are hungry to elevate more unapologetic progressives.

Mr. Perriello, 42, largely fits that bill. Swept into office in the Democratic wave of 2008, he quickly became a favorite of the White House for his willingness to vote for the president’s agenda despite representing a right-of-center district. Mr. Obama took a personal liking to the first-term congressman, a Yale University-trained lawyer and human rights advocate, and even flew to Charlottesville on the Friday before the 2010 election to campaign for him.

Mr. Perriello lost that race in the Tea Party deluge but soon became an executive at the Center for American Progress, a liberal research group, before Mr. Obama appointed him to the State Department, where he was a special envoy for the Great Lakes region of Africa until he left at the end of last month.

He also considered running for governor four years ago, with encouragement from some of Mr. Obama’s aides, and some Democrats believe he will not enter a race with only a little over five months before the primary.
Click to expand...

While Mr. Northam is now largely in line with party orthodoxy, he was seen as moderate enough as a state senator that Republicans wooed him to consider switching parties.

Neither Mr. Perriello nor Mr. Northam is well-known to Virginia voters. Mr. Northam would enjoy a substantial financial advantage and the support of Mr. McAuliffe, who is popular with Democrats. The governor, in fact, is hosting a fund-raiser at his Northern Virginia home this weekend for Mr. Northam.

But Mr. Perriello is well liked among some liberal activists and could gain a following with the sort of highly engaged voters who show up in low-turnout summer primaries. To do so, though, he will have to fend off questions from the left about some of his stances on cultural issues. He was endorsed by the National Rifle Association in his 2010 campaign and cast some anti-abortion votes.
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I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Glenn Greenwald makes David Clarke look like a serious person.

Greenwald spending so much time carrying water for wild anti-Semites while hiring Jilani and Khalek will at least assure that Greenwald will get a shout out in all of the upcoming "How Antisemitism Came Back to America" books.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
whyamihere said:
lol
Click to expand...

Sanders is taking the right approach to attack Trump

regular people don't care about Russia. Americans that have to wake up each day to work at Wal-mart don't give a shit about Russia or the grand scheme of things. SS and Medicare though? Yeah, that stuff we care about.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
Sanders is taking the right approach to attack Trump

people don't give about Russia. Americans that have to wake up each day to work at Wal-mart don't give a shit about Russia or the grand scheme of things. SS and Medicare though? Yeah, that stuff we care about.
Click to expand...

Pretttttty sure that people will care about when the CIA directly blames Trump for the next terror attack.

And that's coming because of the Dems' focus on Russia.

Americans will also care when Taliban forces with Russian equipment kill American soldiers in Afghanistan.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Russia's official response to claims of U.S. hacking was to say that the Jews control the U.S. political system and rigged the election for Trump.

In response to Thursday's actions, Maria Zakharova, the spokesperson of Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, issued a statement posted on the Ministry’s website: “If Washington really does take new hostile steps, they will be answered ... any action against Russian diplomatic missions in the U.S. will immediately bounce back on U.S. diplomats in Russia." She concluded, "Frankly, we are tired about the lies about Russian hackers—it's misinformation by Obama administration aimed at providing an excuse for its own failure.”

Zakharova has previously dismissed the U.S. allegation of Russian hacking by saying that Trump won the presidency because he catered to what she considers the bellwether constituency: "If you want to know what will happen in America, who do you have to talk to? You have to talk to the Jews, naturally.”

She said this on a pro-government television program in mid-November, at one point adopting a stereotypical Jewish accent to describe what her putative sources for this information in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, relayed to her.
Click to expand...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/29/obama-targets-putin-s-spies-over-dnc-hack.html

Greenwald's a sad, pathetic man.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Can someone explain why Tillerson - on the Trump scale - is that bad?

Concrete reasons why he would harm American interests.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Sanders is taking the right approach to attack Trump

regular people don't care about Russia. Americans that have to wake up each day to work at Wal-mart don't give a shit about Russia or the grand scheme of things. SS and Medicare though? Yeah, that stuff we care about.
Click to expand...

People can care about more than one thing at a time and talk about more than one thing at a time.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
PBY said:
Can someone explain why Tillerson - on the Trump scale - is that bad?

Concrete reasons why he would harm American interests.
Click to expand...

He has likely absurd conflicts of interests that are mostly opaque because he refuses to release his tax returns. A conflict in an area with Exxon interests could cause Tillerson to pursue military action to protect those interests. Tillerson also has bad blood with Venezuela over oil deals gone bad and Venezuela is a failed state on the verge of a coup and that could lead to bad outcomes. Tillerson also has extremely close ties to Russia and Russian oil interests even as Russia starts a proxy war against America in Afghanistan.
 
P

PBY

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
He has likely absurd conflicts of interests that are mostly opaque because he refuses to release his tax returns. A conflict in an area with Exxon interests could cause Tillerson to pursue military action to protect those interests. Tillerson also has bad blood with Venezuela over oil deals gone bad and Venezuela is a failed state on the verge of a coup and that could lead to bad outcomes. Tillerson also has extremely close ties to Russia and Russian oil interests even as Russia starts a proxy war against America in Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

On aggregate - do you think he would be better or worse than the alternative?

I'm just honestly worried about expending a bunch of political capital on a fight the Dems will probably lose, but more importantly, if they WIN, I'm more worried about the alternative to be quite honest.
 
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