excelsiorlef
Member
lol minorities can't be your saviour all the time especially when y'all (well we all as I'm white) don't put in the work.
The only reason Trump is President is the level which he won the white vote...
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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lol minorities can't be your saviour all the time especially when y'all (well we all as I'm white) don't put in the work.
The only reason Trump is President is the level which he won the white vote...
Because the media is based out of NY and we're supposed to be the smart ones, so we get held to a higher standard as a result.
excelsiorlef
Member
Why would he.
They are literally allies...
Assange was an arm of the Trump campaign.
metalslimer
Member
Basically as Van Jones put it, this was a whitelash. I've read the article before, and it basically boils down to the fact that minorities have destroyed the social order of working class people and they are extremely angry about it. I don't know what I as a minority who probably get my ass beat up or worse if I even tried to discuss this in a Trump stronghold can do I about this.
Also that Kim Davis section is fucking stupid. It's not cheering your political opponents to be locked up when they actually do something in public office that is punishable with jail.
I hate that article actually because it basically pardons people who probably want me dead.
And in regards to the deplorable comments, it's amazing how these people never picked up on the point of her message was that a large amount of people felt like the government hadn't done anything for them and felt left behind. They live in their own reality and it's going to take some much harder times on them where they lose even more jobs, more of their people die from lack of healthcare and drugs, and their environment goes to shit before they realize they aren't in reality.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Because Fox tells them they do.
Which is perhaps the most important rebuttal to all this: no matter what we do, the only people that rural whites trust is going to keep telling them that we hate them. Moderating our attitudes will do no good at all.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The reality of whether or not liberals look down on rural whites literally doesn't matter at all based on that people consume their own realities at this point.
Rural whites don't watch Samantha Bee. Rural whites think Europe has had a negative view of the Obama presidency because they don't consume an accurate reality regarding Europe.
Rural whites don't watch Samantha Bee. Rural whites think Europe has had a negative view of the Obama presidency because they don't consume an accurate reality regarding Europe.
Also, what would Assange be pardoned for? He's in hiding because of rape charges, not because of us.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Real talk, if I'm them, I'm pointing a few extra missiles our way just because you never know.
excelsiorlef
Member
He can bring him to the US and refuse extradition.
The pardon is for the shit he did to the US that he thinks he'll go on trial for if he went to Sweden.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Carpe Libertatem
Member
What an incredibly dumb, short-sighted idea.
Regardless, I would bet more than anything that Kander has his eye on the governor's mansion in 2020.
Only celebrity power couple I would vote for is Stewart/Colbert
Poodlestrike
Banned
Japan definitely.
Exactly. The whole "US is out to get me" is his pretext, not the actual reason he's in hiding. Trump can't pardon him for his actions in Sweden, come on now.
old manatee
Banned
pop·u·list
ˈpäpyələst/
noun
1.
a member or adherent of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people.
The more post mortems I read, the more obvious the problem with Clinton's campaign becomes. Her refusal to openly welcome Bernie supporters immediately after the primaries cost her the working class vote. Instead of listening to Bill, they just "assumed" that the working class was lost, and never even really tried to appeal to them emotionally. Trump proved that people need to be stirred. The american public responds poorly to being mostly explained to. There needs to be an authentic appeal to emotion there, and even though I believed that Clinton had it, she just blew her best chance to project it.
Hopefully the DNC learns from their mistakes, cans Brazile, and hires on Bernie's recommendation for DNC chair.
edit - and let's be honest: a lot of these Trump supporters were not attentive enough to believe any of the truth about his campaign. Most people just assumed everything from both sides was propaganda and chose based on who would be a "better businessman". I've heard that argument far too much in the past few days.
Hopefully the DNC learns from their mistakes, cans Brazile, and hires on Bernie's recommendation for DNC chair.
edit - and let's be honest: a lot of these Trump supporters were not attentive enough to believe any of the truth about his campaign. Most people just assumed everything from both sides was propaganda and chose based on who would be a "better businessman". I've heard that argument far too much in the past few days.
Poodlestrike
Banned
How's he even get here, though? The moment he steps outside of the Ecuadorian embassy he gets arrested. They're not going to drive him onto the tarmac for a plane pickup.
Japan is even further gone than we are.
What the hell happened there, btw? Does anybody know? Just rampant corruption leading to total disillusionment with the political process?
That would not be remotely shocking. Shocking would be literally anything else.
CrazyDiamond
Member
At this point I feel like I'm more a citizen of Massachusetts than of the US. I'm from a place that overwhelmingly voted for Hillary Clinton. I'm from a place where gay marriage is legal and has been for the past twelve years and a Republican leader came out in favor and signed a bill for Transgender rights and where I can go to Community College and only have to pay around a hundred dollars. I know that this attitude doesn't help anyone and that disassociating myself from the parts of the US that did vote for Trump is just me retreating into a liberal bubble because it's too hard to confront the people who either don't prioritize the basics rights of other people or are actively antagonistic towards them. But that's just how I feel right now. Sorry I just had to rant.
I imagine the combination of a 20-year economic stagnation and the threat from a rising China.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I meant more in terms of engagement (which seems to be the big factor from this election). From what I understand, just about NOBODY in Japan gives a shit about politics.
Nobody is getting laid.
MA here, too. I am eager to fight and win back however much of Congress possible in 2018, and then both Congress and the White House in 2020. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't giving myself some small comfort now that I live in one of the most liberal cities in one of the most liberal states. I don't want to raise up the drawbridge and ride out the storm that's about to hit...but it's a mildly comforting feeling nonetheless right now.
Everyone is just trying to survive the 20-year economic stagnation. And also they all work 23-hour days.
Combine that with shitty birth rates, borked workplace culture, and a very homogeneous culture. Japan's in a spot where they've got a lot of problems with a bunch of obvious fixes to the bigger ones, but no one wants to do it for whatever reason.
shinra-bansho
Member
Everyman Trump on his golden toilet.
And no, a long ass article that just wants to say you're the real bigot for not tolerating bigotry is not a must read.
And no, a long ass article that just wants to say you're the real bigot for not tolerating bigotry is not a must read.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The proper response to anyone blaming this on smugness.
I do advocate for understanding the people who voted for Trump. But not out of empathy, but as a means to dismantling them as a movement.
My reply was to your conclusion, I'm not debunking the article. Her making the deplorables comment would not have mattered in my opinion. Compare that to the amount of people Trump insulted personally and never apologized to. You're saying we need to coddle them because they're holding america hostage. I say fuck that. That's like being in an abusive relationship, that's not the path forward.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I misunderstood what was being asserted. I thought he was talking about white liberals not showing up. Yes, white people elected a racist.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I don't think that you can really understand them without empathizing at least a little. Otherwise, you can't grasp the full emotional reasoning behind their decisions.
People seem to think that empathizing with someone is tantamount to agreeing with them, which I've never felt to be the case. In grade school, I could empathize with my bullies, with their insecurities and pressures, but that never made me like them, or believe they were in the right. Identical situation here.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I'm not sure why no one in Japan cares about politics. It's an interesting subject I should really read about sometime.
Germany actually has good political engagement even though they went through similar destruction and reconstruction.
Like, over the years, I've certainly come to better understand that people often aren't voting against their own interests but rather I've often misunderstood what their priorities are. "They are voting against their own interests" is insulting because that's assuming you know what they want better than they do (unless they specifically tell you they are voting for A but A will specifically not do what they think it does which I guess could engender a weird conversation).
I can stand to disagree with a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. I don't think the far left position is always the right solution and I think there is value in authentic conservatism - the US would be served by a well functioning, empathetic right party. What I can't reconcile is those who vote or exert their power in the way they do to oppress those who aren't like them. Like if its "smug" to say "those who are afraid and show disdain towards all Muslim-Americans because of terrorists" are wrong, what am I supposed to do? Not call that stuff out? All ______isms and _____phobias have to be called out. How do you do that in a non-smug fashion? The article cites the Kim Davis story and while I agree insulting her looks or stuff like that is going way to far - hating on gay people IS wrong and I personally do think that as a Catholic that its antithetical to the message of Jesus' nit because I'm an atheist. Like I have to be able to do at least that right?
how do you accomplish all the goals of trump, the republican party, russia?
Total. Reset.
This guy sounds awesome ^^
I think there is a way to call out the racist assholes, at last the ones that might have voted for Obama, without alienating them. The way would be to place all the blame on trump for igniting the flames of division and bigotry.
I know Clinton tried it to some extent and they didn't care but if things do get worse I can see a lot of them wanting a way out of their white nationalist experiment.
I know Clinton tried it to some extent and they didn't care but if things do get worse I can see a lot of them wanting a way out of their white nationalist experiment.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I wrote briefly, I basically agree with you but didn't want to tangent.
I took some active listening training, and one of the advanced things to do was to understand somebody you fundamentally disagreed with on a topic well enough that you could explain their position back to them and have *them* agree that you fully understood. I suppose it's empathy, but I avoided the word because I didn't want the associations.
CrazyDiamond
Member
That's the mantra that I'm repeating right and what I told my mom to offer some form of encouragement. "We live in Massachusetts we're going to be fine." I have to believe that our progressive state legislature will shield us from National Republican fuckery.
excelsiorlef
Member
No he's in hiding to avoid going to Sweden because he believes he'd be extradited to the US and charged with x,y,z
That's what he gets pardoned for whatever x,y,z shit he did with Wikileaks to the US that's illegal.
But yeah getting him to the US would be hard.. well unless they tell him to turn himself in ti Swedish gov and then petition for extradition and then pardon him instead.
I'm just being fucking pessimistic right now.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Honestly, his loss was the second biggest disappointment of Nov 8th.
How much power does the DNC chair actually have? If Kander will accept it i'd give it to him.
But we don't want him for shit. That's just an excuse for his fans, to explain why he's holed up in the embassy without talking about the rape accusation.
Mad?
Get involved in your local grassroots organizations.
A few friends followed up on the movement behind Boston's anti DAPL and anti Trump protests & they're formulating a plan to run progressives through state legislature for the future of the party. Do this in your state. Please. We need to fight tooth and nail for our freedoms.
Get involved in your local grassroots organizations.
A few friends followed up on the movement behind Boston's anti DAPL and anti Trump protests & they're formulating a plan to run progressives through state legislature for the future of the party. Do this in your state. Please. We need to fight tooth and nail for our freedoms.
I agree with most of this but the bolded confuses me. After the D.C. primary, Clinton and Sanders met up, talked and then hammered out the platform for weeks. The DNC Platform team got to be filled with 1/2 Sanders appointees. A lot of his proposals got in. He got a prime speaking spot at the convention and his supporters were given a lot of concessions. Like the bolded just didn't happen? When did that campaign ever shit on Sanders supporters after the primary? Or are you referring to something else I'm not seeing?
What Clinton should have done was physically and politically become Bernie Sanders
This is a great tactic to cool down a heated argument, although very difficult to do when the other person is advocating racism or belittling the plights of the LGBT community.
Can't dismantle them unless they die, and a big enough chunk of that voting block is strong and kicking. What good is the popular vote without the EC majority. It's useless and it did not stop Bush and it will not stop Trump. Unless Democrats turn out en masse in midterms and general elections then it's moot. Those guys will fight us all the fucking way. And my reason for posting that article wasn't necessarily out empathy for them (a significant amount of them hate people that look like me) but that were doomed once Hillary made that deplorables comment. She gave them all the meat they needed. The next candidate cannot be so careless with that voting block. We should be looking to fracture it. Basically I kinda believe it's possible to steal enough votes from this group of voters to win elections for democrats at the state and consequently the national level to the point that GOP hits a ceiling of only 40% of the electorate or thereabouts.
excelsiorlef
Member
Oh, I agree with your assessment here. The perception leading up to and during the DNC was very icy though, and a lot of people were already in "Fuck Clinton" mode as a result.
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