-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
- Status
Clinton's Iraq vote cost her 08 and contributed to people erroneously casting her as a DINO. Young people also weren't around during the Clinton years and don't really understand what they went through and how many of the lines of attack being used against her (and him) / defining them is just GOP messaging honed through literal decades of repetition.
User 463088
Banned
I think that's part of it....well, that and the answers he provides are the simplest most basic solutions.
College is too expensive? Make it free!
Healthcare is too expensive? Make it free!
The minimum wage is too low? Make it bigger!
The banks are too big? Break them up!
He offers the perfect, but he has no plans to even give us the good. In an era of sound bites, policy that can be explained in 140 characters or less is going to win over the Twitter generation.
User 463088
Banned
It's Reddit. Anything they can freak out over, they will. Even if it was a stupid, pointless joke. It's stupid because you don't ever do something that even has the slight smell of controversial.
Eh, I think we don't need to insinuate that kids are stupid for voting for Bernie.
I think Obama did a great job highlighting her weaknesses as a candidate that stemmed from her Iraq War vote. She's been a DINO ever since even though she ran to the left of Obama on healthcare.
She's also just not very personable and kind of a dork.
I think Obama did a great job highlighting her weaknesses as a candidate that stemmed from her Iraq War vote. She's been a DINO ever since even though she ran to the left of Obama on healthcare.
She's also just not very personable and kind of a dork.
Hillary used to support single payer.
What happened to that Hillary? That was the Hillary Clinton that I liked.
eBay Huckster
Member
no.
she.
didn't.
like, did anyone saying this actually read the 1993 reform proposal? her earliest policy proposal on the subject is literally mandated, highly-regulated regional-level private insurance.
Eh I just want it to be over.
Hmm?
excelsiorlef
Member
Which is why I love her.
She's supported UHC, not single payer. I don't think she's EVER supported single payer.
eBay Huckster
Member
the public option is the closest thing to single-payer she's ever supported, full stop.
My bad.
Well, back then she was on the forefront of progressive issues, imo, compared to now. Now Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are viewed as the most progressive candidates. Yes, she's still a progressive - but not progressive enough for me, in 2016.
Well, yeah, she learned pretty quickly why she couldn't be Bernie or Warren after the 93 healthcare fight.
Never as a part of the platform, but apparently back in the 08 election she briefly flirted with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg03x6ESyIU
Her public stances on it tend to sound like "yeah, it would be cool, but it's not gonna pass so I'm not going to waste time on it".
metalslimer
Member
And she got beat down hard in a climate where republicans were much less polarized than they are now and the democrats actually controlled congress. It's easy to see why she became more of a realist.
hahahahahahahahahaahahhaha
excelsiorlef
Member
Lol. I really do find her charming
eBay Huckster
Member
:jnc
Box of Kittens
Banned
As always the problem is that handing over the nomination to someone who wasn't even competitive looks really, really bad. The convention dark horse made sense as a thing back when the party bosses were essentially picking the nominee anyway, but those days are gone and never coming back. The RNC may be a private organization that can pick its nominee however it wants to, but they really do need to worry about legitimacy.
I also imagine if they do go that route they'll probably go for Paul Ryan or somebody (I know some of them have suggested a "fresh face").
She comes across as inauthentic and willing to change her principles to get votes - which is something that hit her in both 2008 and 2016. That bit's not on the GOP, that's on her. She also comes across as someone who expected to win and the arrogance isn't always kept in check well (see her comments about kids being stupid to vote for Bernie, just like she implied during 2008).
Also, frankly, it's sort of hypocritical how many folks here basically are doing the same thing and acting like the folks voting for Bernie are just incompetent and naive. You know, the generation that Clinton + Bush + etc sent to war is just dumb and naive, and could never, ever be mad at Clinton for being part of the generation that screwed them policy wise when it came to their education (from K through college)...or being willing to cut infrastructure spending but make sure their precious Medicare or Social Security would be OK....or sending them to fight in an unwinnable war or something.
Honestly, as an first generation American, what the baby boomers in this country did to their kids is pretty unconscionable. It stuns me that they, when growing up from a generation who sacrificed heavily (in taxes) to build the infrastructure for this country (and fought in WWII) to give them the best chance to succeed...that when put in the same situation, promptly decided to screw their own kids in order to keep more money in their pockets. I honestly don't get it. That's like the opposite of what we're taught to do.
EDIT: The belief that the older generation appears to have completely screwed the younger generation in this country via the GWB tax cuts and war in Iraq and completely ready to spend into a deficit for their own SS and Medicare, but the deficit will magically be too big after they're done with those programs...ugh, that's my soapbox.
Oh, it is.
Don't we have good odds of the democrats retaking the majority of the senate this year?
TheLaughingStock
Member
It's not a real race. Trump is kicking butt and can still win on the first ballot at a contested convention because it looks like the GOAT will end up a little short due to rookie mistakes. Bringing a few unpledged delegates to the team on the 1st ballot shouldn't be too difficult. Meanwhile, seeing how long Bernie will stick around in the race should be the focus because we know lame candidates like Kasich and Cruz refuse to give it up. Bernie is a bit more murky on when he'll leave.
I feel like HRC is in her element when she's down in the trenches getting shit done OR explaining policy.
She seems uncomfortable campaigning or debating which while "good" in a traditional sense, it's clear she'd rather be DOING something rather than telling people what she's going to do.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Cruz will easily win the nomination at the convention.
That HRC website 404 thing is absolute money. Can't wait to vote for her.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Sam Wang has Trump more likely than not reaching a majority, but far from a sure thing.
metalslimer
Member
Yes and the House will still be GOP controlled barring a major disaster for them. There will also still be only a slight majority for the democrats in the senate.
Macho Madness
Member
Hey I thought whisked ankfastd bots
eBay Huckster
Member
User 463088
Banned
That 404 thing actually made my Berniebro smile. PROGRESS!
Macho Madness
Member
You know, I feel like this HA Goodman special doesn't get enough love: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/hillary-clinton-will-fini_b_8717248.html
The Senate will only get us so far if it comes without the House.
After Obama was elected I just thought the U.S. was done with neoconservatives.
I should've been more careful with what I said because I'd prefer neoconservatives to right wing populists.
I'm fairly confident that a democrat will win in 2016. Most likely Hillary sparing anything sort of a miracle for Bernie.
Even though I don't expect him to win, he has brought democratic socialism to the table. Socialist is still a dirty word, but not nearly as much as it used to be. In that way, it's a huge success. Pushing Hillary to the left has done this country a great service imo. I remember when I originally started supporting Sanders, NO ONE knew him. Even if (when) he loses, it's still been a great success because he has started a movement that won't die with just one election.
I should've been more careful with what I said because I'd prefer neoconservatives to right wing populists.
I'm fairly confident that a democrat will win in 2016. Most likely Hillary sparing anything sort of a miracle for Bernie.
Even though I don't expect him to win, he has brought democratic socialism to the table. Socialist is still a dirty word, but not nearly as much as it used to be. In that way, it's a huge success. Pushing Hillary to the left has done this country a great service imo. I remember when I originally started supporting Sanders, NO ONE knew him. Even if (when) he loses, it's still been a great success because he has started a movement that won't die with just one election.
Macho Madness
Member
No wait it's this one: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/im-a-liberal-democrat-im_b_6169542.html
Hillary isn't a neoconservative...she's never been one...
Oh my god. Her campaign has a good sense of humor
TheLaughingStock
Member
How? Trump might be at 1100 and some change in delegates coming into the convention and would be even closer if he was a seasoned vet in the game. Cruz is a chump that's going to roll in with significantly less for the first ballot.
Box of Kittens
Banned
HA Goodman gets too much love. Everybody just forgets about Seth Abramson and his classic attempt to unskew actual election results: www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramso...-primary-race-ill-prove-to-you_b_9528076.html
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Remind me which war the Clintons put a generation into. Was it the war they didn't fight in Yemen after the USS Cole bombing? What about Bush's war in Somalia that Clinton ended? How about the war we didn't start in Haiti or Rwanda? How about the inclusion of Eastern European countries in NATO, signaling to Russia that no nuclear weapons would ever be present in those countries?
Those Clintons, always starting wars.
If I could vote Bill Clinton into a third term, I would. Oh wait, we basically can!
I wasn't talking about Hillary I was talking about Cruz, sorry for confusion
Doesn't really matter if they don't get to 60. So we have to win fourteen seats somehow. Any Bernie-type major plans will get filibustered to the end by Republicans.
Plus there's the whole House situation.
I never got that line of attack. Hillary is a secret neocon, even though every single neocon in the country hates her with a passion and have made false smears for 30 years?
Makes sense...
I was referring to the current GOP candidates - anyone who isn't Trump (who I called a right wing populist)
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Hillary's not a neoconservative, but she was, by all accounts, one of the biggest champions of intervention in Libya, which Obama now looks back on as his greatest mistake as POTUS. She also was against Obama's decision not to enforce the red line in Syria, has doubled down on the "special relationship" with Israel, etc. She's definitively a humanitarian interventionist, which is not the kind of batshit crazy neoconservative brings to the table but definitely IS easily her biggest weakness.
I'm aware. Wasn't referring to you.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked