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PoliGAF 2016 |OT4| Tyler New Chief Exit Pollster at CNN

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C

CCS

Banned
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EDIT: Apologies for being sideways :lol
 
A

APF

Member
shinra-bansho said:
Bugbear. Why? To what level? Means tested?

Why not free trade schools instead? Or early childhood education? Why not just more affordable college? Why not use that money to encourage entrepreneurial activity?
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I think the key component you're missing is that none of these effectively pander as strongly to Sanders' college-age base. Per the conversation re fundraising emails and throwing progressive orgs under the bus, above all else the most important thing is the emotional appeal.
 
M

Maledict

Member
i_am_ben said:
Neither University or Vocational Education should be entirely free.

To be honest, if students aren't responsible for at least some portion of their course upfront then they'll enroll in all sorts of useless degrees.

Plus, unless you restrict the number of providers/courses then basically universities/colleges will just enroll everyone they can.
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The thing that frustrates me is the our spending for education is completely the wrong way round. WE spend the least on early child care provision, and the most on university education - and yet we also know you get the most value from early years spending and the least value from university spending. It's completely how we fund and prioritise education and children's care / services in all western countries, and completely contradictory to what the evidence tells us.

Good early years provision (and I'm talking from birth upwards here) has such a massive effect on a person's lifetime opportunities. Yet we spend so little on it it's criminal.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
forget superdelegates, he's gonna have a smashing time getting to 50% in CA/NY/next week's states continuing to piss off Clinton supporters + people still undecided with shit like this
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
I'm wondering.. has anyone from the GOP side of the bracket incorporated the "whore" angle of attack against Hillary yet? If not, part of me is surprised that Bernie's surrogates beat them to the punch.

I mean, Trump has the most raucous of rallies, but I'm struggling to remember if the "whore" term has been dropped by any of his surrogates.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Unless we're pointing and laughing at the weirdos and their pointless hipsterplaid revolución outside of CNN then I don't know why we're talking about them at all as if they're relevant to the race.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
I have a feeling Bernie is going to do terrible tonight. He's going to try and go on the offensive and it's going to back fire horribly.

He's been sloppy these last couple of weeks and I don't see that changing for the debate.

At this point, the debate also isn't to gain new voters, as 100% of voters who will be voting in NY are already registered, so he needs to figure out how to sway voters, not try and rile up new voters.

HylianTom said:
I'm wondering.. has anyone from the GOP side of the bracket incorporated the "whore" angle of attack against Hillary yet? If not, part of me is surprised that Bernie's surrogates beat them to the punch.

I mean, Trump has the most raucous of rallies, but I'm struggling to remember if the "whore" term has been dropped by any of his surrogates.
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tbh I haven't really noticed the GOP doing much against the Democrats. At least nothing major.

They have their own problems to deal with. Money spent going against Hillary now is less money used to hit Trump or Cruz.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Yep, have caught up on it. So Paul Song introduced him at a rally, and said we needed Bernie Sanders and that:

"MEdicare for all will not happen if we continue to elect corporate democratic whores".

Bernie then got up on stage, thanked him and didn't say a word. Christ alive.

Also for extra fun, you may recognise the name. Paul Song's sister in law was in prisoner in North KOrea in 2009. HIllary Clinton was SoS at the time and led the effort to have her freed, which included Bill Clinton flying to N Korea to negotiate for her release. They were so grateful their baby girls middle name is Jefferson after Bill. Impressive turn there!
 
i_am_ben

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
Maledict said:
The thing that frustrates me is the our spending for education is completely the wrong way round. WE spend the least on early child care provision, and the most on university education - and yet we also know you get the most value from early years spending and the least value from university spending. It's completely how we fund and prioritise education and children's care / services in all western countries, and completely contradictory to what the evidence tells us.

Good early years provision (and I'm talking from birth upwards here) has such a massive effect on a person's lifetime opportunities. Yet we spend so little on it it's criminal.
Click to expand...

I would agree. ECE is an amazing investment.

Although IIRC there's a few caveats to early childhood education's usefulness including:

  • ECE isn't very effective from birth 0 to 2 (inclusive).
  • Quality matters, and merely providing childcare instead of education may result in no benefit
  • the long-term effects of ECE are less (and possibly non-existent) for children from richer families (not that this is necessarily a bad thing).
 
M

Maledict

Member
i_am_ben said:
I would agree. ECE is an amazing investment.

Although IIRC there's a few caveats to early childhood education's usefulness including:

  • ECE isn't very effective from birth 0 to 2 (inclusive).
  • Quality matters, and merely providing childcare instead of education may result in no benefit
  • the long-term effects of ECE are less (and possibly non-existent) for children from richer families (not that this is necessarily a bad thing).
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There's a huge amount of value with 0 to 2 services, but agree it's not in actual education. Huge amount of research is showing the values of early parenting training, family support etc. One of the things I'm involved with at the moment is the LEAP project in Lambeth which is based in 4 wards with high levels of deprivation and poverty, and exclusively focussed on interventions and support for families with children in the 0-2 age range, and that seems to be showing positive results already.

And absolutely agree on the need for quality provision. It's much more than just generic childcare.
 
i_am_ben

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
Maledict said:
There's a huge amount of value with 0 to 2 services, but agree it's not in actual education. Huge amount of research is showing the values of early parenting training, family support etc. One of the things I'm involved with at the moment is the LEAP project in Lambeth which is based in 4 wards with high levels of deprivation and poverty, and exclusively focussed on interventions and support for families with children in the 0-2 age range, and that seems to be showing positive results already.

And absolutely agree on the need for quality provision. It's much more than just generic childcare.
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Oh for sure. Parenting initiatives, child health services, early childhood education and intervention programs are all so so important.

More often than not, however, these services are under funded, not designed very well or poorly integrated. Its hugely frustrating especially when there's so much evidence to show that it saves governments tonnes of money in the long run.

Things are getting better though at least.
 
S

Slayven

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
I doubt this is the Tea Party Left

- First and foremost, the Tea Party got results and proved they were a large enough block of voters that you have to listen to them. Bernie is 200+ delegates down and the gap will likely widen before he drops out. His voters are unreliable, and thus, not really going to command attention

- The Tea Party had the support of the GOP. It was a creation of the GOP to bring down Obama via racism and fear. It ended up spiraling out of control, but for awhile, the GOP fully backed the Tea Party.

- The Tea Party had a bunch of innate human biases that it played off of. Racism. Fear of the Government. Religion. They leveraged those deep rooted human biases to launch of political platform.

- Their platform was convenient for corporations to adopt because while the people argued bitterly about small government and minorities and religion, corporations could grab that furor and run with it, allowing their own agenda to be passed as long as it rode on the crazy train.

- They had major donors and lots of money. They had role models who fully supported them, like Sarah Palin. Bernie likely won't support a radical third party uprising, so they'll need to find new leaders.

- They had an entire "news" propaganda machine to push out their message. The media isn't going to give that sort of attention to far left policies.

- They made it to the general election. Hate to say it, but once the primaries are over, Bernie won't be mentioned at all for a year or two, if ever, because 100% of the focus will be on the general. The Tea Party was the focus in the general, because they were connected with Palin.



The current defense tactic is that when they said "whores" they didn't mean it as sexism, so how dare you associate a derogatory sexist term with sexism, you sexist! Apparently using the term "corporate whore" against a woman candidate isn't sexist at all, because they didn't mean it to be sexist, and hey, they didn't even directly mention Hillary!

It's almost like a classic racist defense mechanism.

I touched a serious nerve on reddit by blasting Bernie for this. It's almost amazing to watch the twists and turns their brains make to try and justify how "whore" isn't at all sexist and Bernie is really the victim here.
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Damn good breakdown
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
Cf91vpVWEAAIL2Q.jpg


Jamelle Bouie ‏@jbouie 13h13 hours ago
Jamelle Bouie Retweeted guttoe
On the area most salient to Sanders, economics, black voters are collectively the most liberal group in America.

Jamelle Bouie ‏@jbouie 13h13 hours ago
And given most blacks live in the South, that strongly suggests that southern blacks are, on the economy, more liberal than most whites.
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E

eBay Huckster

Member
NeoXChaos said:
Cf91vpVWEAAIL2Q.jpg
Click to expand...

Tweet picture caption for anyone with images off: Race/age/income breakdowns from a September Pew poll of who wants smaller government/fewer services vs bigger government/more services

Spoiler alert: males, whites, olds, and rich people tend toward wanting less services while women, minorities, young people and poors tend toward wanting more

(or in other words, more confirmation of what we can already reliably predict about economic ideology)
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
HylianTom said:
I'm wondering.. has anyone from the GOP side of the bracket incorporated the "whore" angle of attack against Hillary yet? If not, part of me is surprised that Bernie's surrogates beat them to the punch.
Click to expand...
Yes, in the formative years of Bill's presidency she was accused multiple times of having an affair with Vince Foster, who she killed to cover up said bigamy.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Man Bernie has a busy day, walking back comments, prepping for the debate, then he has to jump on 10 hour trip to not meet the pope.
 
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