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[Tar-Miriel]

This thread might be relevant to your interests
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1223967&page=1

thanks, I'll check this out

We should let them pull a Monroe doctrine and shift our alliances. China has earned every inch of power it has. I see no reason why it shouldn't be the dominant power in the region. Someday, China will be the most powerful nation in the world and we will be happy we're on their side as their older, but less significant, brother - just like the happy relationship we've had with Great Britain.

I have a hard time believing that China could become much more of a world power than they are now without first becoming democracy. and i don't see that happening very soon. Despite everything they do economically, having a one party system keeps them from being on the influential level of western countries

 

[danm999]

You want to vote for that?

That flat tax doe.

 

[Suikoguy]

The only thing I dislike about Trump campaigning in New York is that there are some low hanging fruit House seats upstate and one on Long Island that the Democrats can easily take, but Trump campaigning there might help the Republican incumbents. Or maybe not.

The more moderate Republicans, who the fuck knows how those seats will go.
I seriously would not place any money on those races.

 

[Abinash117]

We should let them pull a Monroe doctrine and shift our alliances. China has earned every inch of power it has. I see no reason why it shouldn't be the dominant power in the region. Someday, China will be the most powerful nation in the world and we will be happy we're on their side as their older, but less significant, brother - just like the happy relationship we've had with Great Britain.

Because those countries in Asia don't want China what so ever, and they been getting closer to US because of China. What about them? Also the US doesn't want China to be a bigger power than they are otherwise TPP wouldn't be a thing and Obama wouldn't be as aggressive as he is now in the South Sea. China and US are no friends,.

 

[BlastProcessing]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-states/?postshare=5141464312900343&tid=ss_tw

Wonder what the RNC thinks about this.

 

[HUELEN10]

You want to vote for that?

I already answered your question, quite well and to the point to boot.

I have a hard time believing that China could become much more of a world power than they are now without first becoming democracy. and i don't see that happening very soon. Despite everything they do economically, having a one party system keeps them from being on the influential level of western countries

Not to mention the whole losing jobs to automation thing hitting hard right now. It can happen, but some things need to happen first. I totally get where you are coming from.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

China claims a large portion of the sea; I don't know their agenda, but I feel it has something to increase their economic and military influence on the region.

They want to control the South China Sea for the same reason we want to control the world. China is on its way to becoming quite literally the greatest nation the world has ever seen and what better way to begin than by exerting complete hegemony over strategic and economic routes? First is South Asia; then is Far East Asia; then is India; and next is the Arctic.

 

[Suikoguy]

I already answered your question, quite well and to the point to boot.

Not to mention the whole losing jobs to automation thing hitting hard right now. It can happen, but some things need to happen first. I totally get where you are coming from.

Basic income is the best solution i've heard so far as a response to automation.

I'd love to hear any alternatives.

 

[B-Dubs]

They want to control the South China Sea for the same reason we want to control the world. China is on its way to becoming quite literally the greatest nation the world has ever seen and what better way to begin than by exerting complete hegemony over strategic and economic routes? First is South Asia; then is Far East Asia; then is India; and next is the Arctic.

And you don't think blunting that progress a little, especially given their human rights record, is a good idea?

 

[RustyNails]

I already answered your question, quite well and to the point to boot.

You did indeed!

 

[Tar-Miriel]

Because those countries in Asia don't want China what so ever, and they been getting closer to US because of China. What about them? Also the US doesn't want China to be a bigger power than they are otherwise TPP wouldn't be a thing and Obama wouldn't be as aggressive as he is now in the South Sea. China and US are no friends,.

this is also a good point but i think the plan is also to somehow at least pretend to still be friends with china so we can reap whatever benefits there are from that.

 

[Abinash117]

They want to control the South China Sea for the same reason we want to control the world. China is on its way to becoming quite literally the greatest nation the world has ever seen and what better way to begin than by exerting complete hegemony over strategic and economic routes? First is South Asia; then is Far East Asia; then is India; and next is the Arctic.

Exactly. Judging by your own claim that China wants to control those areas as the US does the world why would the US be happy about a rival doing the same to those areas? The Chinese is threatening US hegemony. There will be no Kumbaya.

 

[HUELEN10]

Basic income is the best solution i've heard so far as a response to automation.

I'd love to hear any alternatives.

Due to the size and scope, there aren't that many alternative options.

 

[B-Dubs]

this is also a good point but i think the plan is also to somehow at least pretend to still be friends with china so we can reap whatever benefits there are from that.

Let's not pretend China doesn't also benefit greatly from that relationship. They need someone to sell their cheap goods to.

Due to the size and scope, there aren't that many alternative options.

Holy crap I actually agree with this. Someone find me a mirror, I need to do some soul searching.

Spoiler

I kid, I kid.

 

[User 463088]

Let's not pretend China doesn't also benefit greatly from that relationship. They need someone to sell their cheap goods to.



Holy crap I actually agree with this. Someone find me a mirror, I need to do some soul searching.

Spoiler

I kid, I kid.

It's fine that you agree...but I swear if I start seeing articles on Huff post under your name I'm staging an intervention.

 

[pigeon]

Huh, I didn't realize this was a thing. who's causing tensions? China?

This is a quite complex situation, because SEA LAW is itself relatively complicated (it matters a lot whether something is an island, a rock, or a platform you built, for example), but in general, China claimed basically all of the South China Sea in 1947 (after World War II, when nobody was really left in the area to argue with them) and hasn't backed off those claims.

The territory they want to claim would be pretty problematic for Vietnam and the Philippines, but it would also just be a big problem for everybody because the SCS is an important trade junction (the straits of Malacca are there, which used to be a big deal back in the day) and some of the territory in question should probably be international waters. So generally nobody agrees with their claims and so periodically there are more or less friendly encounters with warships in the area, often involving specific maneuvers meant to demonstrate our positions/challenge the other party's. For example, the US Navy recently sailed a ship very close to a land mass that China claims is an island and we claim is a man-made platform because you're allowed to get closer to a man-made platform than an island.

 

[Bowdz]

One of my biggest reasons for supporting Hillary is the fact that she and Donilon where THE driving forces behind the pivot to Asia. She gets the gravity of the situation and the strategic importance Asia plays in the long term American global hegemony. She is just hawkish enough to push back against China without being Trump level batshit insane enough to get into a nuclear war against China when Xi decides to buzz a destroyer.

Also, the Daily Show just had a great segment on Clinton.

 

[Tar-Miriel]

Let's not pretend China doesn't also benefit greatly from that relationship. They need someone to sell their cheap goods to.

oh most definitely! and china knows this which is why they can throw there wight around over there without fearing much consequences (from us at least) and everyone else is small fry in comparison.
Of course Obama is stepping things up so we will see how it all goes. I wonder how our next president will approach the situation?

 

[Suikoguy]

See Tar-Miriel, we can discuss other stuff

 

[B-Dubs]

oh most definitely! and china knows this which is why they can throw there wight around over there without fearing much consequences (from us at least) and everyone else is small fry in comparison.
Of course Obama is stepping things up so we will see how it all goes. I wonder how our next president will approach the situation?

Well considering Clinton was at State at the time the administration started to put this plan into motion, I imagine we'll be on a similar trajectory for a little while longer.

 

[Tar-Miriel]

See Tar-Miriel, we can discuss other stuff

Its happening! Ive sparked a revolution!

 

[Tar-Miriel]

Well considering Clinton was at State at the time the administration started to put this plan into motion, I imagine we'll be on a similar trajectory for a little while longer.

Yes i was going to say something about this but i though i shouldn't just assume Hillary will be president. though a this point maybe i should...

 

[Jack Remington]

Discussing Emailgate would be easier if so many people weren't wrong on basic facts.

Granted we wouldn't be talking about it at all if perspective was universal to human beings, but you'd think the basic facts wouldn't be too much to ask.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yes i was going to say something about this but i though i shouldn't just assume Hillary will be president. though a this point maybe i should...

Well it's either her or Trump, if it's Trump we're likely going to enter a trade war and that won't go well. I mean, who wants to talk about what the collapse of the world economy would look like?

 

[User 463088]

Tonight's political cocktail is inspired by the Bernie/Trump debate:

Lemon juice
Club soda
Cherry juice
and a dash of Hawaiian punch

I didn't put alcohol in it, thus making the entire exercise pointless.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I have a hard time believing that China could become much more of a world power than they are now without first becoming democracy. and i don't see that happening very soon. Despite everything they do economically, having a one party system keeps them from being on the influential level of western countries

Yaaaawn. This is not a bedtime story. Democracies don't always win. It's arguable that the only way to keep a country as large as China under control is through autocratic rule. The Premier is very popular in China. And further; China underwent the fastest industrialization out of any country in human history. And it did that all without democracy once, even though it's had at least two distinct kinds of government since Mao's revolution.

China STILL has one of the fastest growing economies in the world, the largest population in the world, the most quickly changing culture in the world, etc. China and Russia are the two strongest militaries in the world after the United States, and neither of them are democratic. If anything, China is proof that democracy is not the key to success by any means. If anything, market economies and big militaries are. That's about it.

China is more influential than probably France, Germany, and the UK combined. What good is democracy for in terms of influence? Who cares?

Because those countries in Asia don't want China what so ever, and they been getting closer to US because of China. What about them? Also the US doesn't want China to be a bigger power than they are otherwise TPP wouldn't be a thing and Obama wouldn't be as aggressive as he is now in the South Sea. China and US are no friends,.

It's official US policy to stand by its allies, and it's (apparently) in the US' interest, as you mentioned, to limit the power of China in the region. South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines together are an adequate buffer against China, and none of them on their own are large enough to be a threat to us.

To which I say, who cares? China is the biggest and baddest player to have ever come out of nowhere since Germany. And look at Germany now: best country in Europe! I say we switch teams, in good will. Get on their good side. US and China side by side; who can stop us?

 

[Abinash117]

this is also a good point but i think the plan is also to somehow at least pretend to still be friends with china so we can reap whatever benefits there are from that.

I don't think we are pretending to be friends with the Chinese. Chinese vs US issues as been a very known and constant thing. Keeping a decent relationship is the smartest thing to do with each other, but that doesn't stop them from trying to either gain or reduce each others influence.

 

[Suikoguy]

Well it's either her or Trump, if it's Trump we're likely going to enter a trade war and that won't go well. I mean, who wants to talk about what the collapse of the world economy would look like?

Ugh... no kidding.
In actuality it would cause significant short term damage, moderate mid-term damage, and accelerate the pace of automation-uptake. All of which won't bring jobs back.

It's the same direction everything is headed, but we can get there without cutting our nose off first.

I don't think we are pretending to be friends with the Chinese. Chinese vs US issues as been a very known and constant thing. Keeping a decent relationship is the smartest thing to do with each other, but that doesn't stop them from trying to either gain or reduce each others influence.

It's going to be positioning and posturing, which is way better than any overt conflicts.

 

[B-Dubs]

Ugh... no kidding.
In actuality it would cause significant short term damage, moderate mid-term damage, and accelerate the pace of automation-uptake. All of which won't bring jobs back.

It's the same direction everything is headed, but we can get there without cutting our nose off first.

The long-term damage could easily be huge if we aren't prepared for it properly. If we get there before we're ready then we're fucked for a generation or two.

 

[Tar-Miriel]

Well it's either her or Trump, if it's Trump we're likely going to enter a trade war and that won't go well. I mean, who wants to talk about what the collapse of the world economy would look like?

That might actually be an interesting topic of conversation as long as with was purely theoretical and not actually happening.
Anyway, twas lovely talking with ya'll Poligaf. I'd better sign off though now since school is still happening tomorrow -_-

 

[Abinash117]

China is more influential than probably France, Germany, and the UK combined. What good is democracy for in terms of influence? Who cares?

It's official US policy to stand by its allies, and it's (apparently) in the US' interest, as you mentioned, to limit the power of China in the region. South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines together are an adequate buffer against China, and none of them on their own are large enough to be a threat to us.

To which I say, who cares? China is the biggest and baddest player to have ever come out of nowhere since Germany. And look at Germany now: best country in Europe! I say we switch teams, in good will. Get on their good side. US and China side by side; who can stop us?

Well obviously the US and those Asian countries care. Why bring up Germany? The US aren't friends with China does stuff that the US really doesn't like, we aren't already allies, and the government is not friendly and is basically a rival in some cases. There is no getting on the good side. The only why that happens is China stops being China as it is right now. We all know that ain't happening.

 

[Wilsongt]

Not being a bernie bro, I wouldn't know.

As a supporter and prior voter of Sanders though, the email thing is one of the strongest cases against voting for Clinton in my honest opinion. As a citizen and a technology enthusiast, it absolutely sickens me.

Bless your heart.

 

[kingkitty]

so who's making the debate thread for bernie/trump?

#believe #teamreal

 

[sc0la]

Sounds like an onion article. I laugh out loud every time I read this. Its hard imagining Bernie writing this.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...e-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

How did this Vox article get in my NPR?

Quarantine everything before it's too late!

 

[Abinash117]

Not being a bernie bro, I wouldn't know.

As a supporter and prior voter of Sanders though, the email thing is one of the strongest cases against voting for Clinton in my honest opinion. As a citizen and a technology enthusiast, it absolutely sickens me.

Lol, if that was the case you wouldn't voting for Trump.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

And you don't think blunting that progress a little, especially given their human rights record, is a good idea?

Excuse me? Excuse me? Who the fuck are we? We enslaved Africans almost a hundred years after it went out of favor in Europe, and then we made them second class citizens after that. We imprisoned Japanese people during WWII, no matter how long they've been here. We've had so many laws here in the early history of California discriminating against Chinese that they are the only ethnicity we have ever outright banned from immigrating. Here in Sacramento it was quite common in the 70s to raid gay bars, pull the men out, and beat the shit out of them because they're gay and they're a threat to children and they have no goddamn rights. In the 50s we had outright censorship of left-wing ideology (see: Trumbo). In '68 Nixon refused to integrate schools. We are the only country who has ever dropped atomic bombs on human beings. Our CIA experimented with fucking MIND CONTROL (Project MK ULTRA) by kidnapping hookers and giving them LSD. We were one of the last countries in the world to give women the right to vote (China has had gender equality in its entire history as a communist nation because communist doctrine dictates it). Nearly the entire 20th century had the US at the forefront of involuntary experimentation on human beings. In the 70s the CIA declared that the Black Panthers were the most serious internal threat to national security. We have the most violent, aggressive police force in the world and more people in prison than every other western european country combined.

The Republican nominee wants to ban muslims and last week 11 states sued the federal government because they want to force people into arbitrary rooms to shit and piss, even though most of the rest of the world has unisex bathrooms.

Excuse me? Who the fuck are we?

Exactly. Judging by your own claim that China wants to control those areas as the US does the world why would the US be happy about a rival doing the same to those areas? The Chinese is threatening US hegemony. There will be no Kumbaya.

It wouldn't be happy. I disagree with US policy because I don't care about promoting human rights and democracy. That's all.

Well obviously the US and those Asian countries care. Why bring up Germany? The US aren't friends with China does stuff that the US really doesn't like, we aren't already allies, and the government is not friendly and is basically a rival in some cases. There is no getting on the good side. The only why that happens is China stops being China as it is right now. We all know that ain't happening.

We had TWO wars with Great Britain and stole their colonies, and we almost succeeded in invading Canada.

 

[Crayons]

I'm so tired I had Fallon on and I was waiting for Bernie to show up but it took me 20 minutes to realize I was on the wrong show and Bernie is on Kimmel

 

[Bowdz]

Lmfao, in other news:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/281465-embattled-pharma-ceo-endorses-trump

Take a wild guess who the CEO is.

 

[User 463088]

I'm so tired I had Fallon on and I was waiting for Bernie to show up but it took me 20 minutes to realize I was on the wrong show and Bernie is on Kimmel

Hashtag Mess
Hashtag Struggle
Hashtag Make Kimmel great again.

 

[B-Dubs]

Have you not seen China's labor practices? Or how about the Tiben or Taiwan situations? The way they censor their media and limit the sort of information their citizens have access too? I can go on for a while. All that stuff you mentioned was in our past, this is stuff that's in China's present. They make us look like angels.

 

[User 463088]

Lmfao, in other news:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/281465-embattled-pharma-ceo-endorses-trump

Take a wild guess who the CEO is.

Oh man, I would love to use his face to hit Cruz's face. They both are so damn punchable.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'm so tired I had Fallon on and I was waiting for Bernie to show up but it took me 20 minutes to realize I was on the wrong show and Bernie is on Kimmel

on the bright side, at least you were watching the good host

 

[B-Dubs]

Oh man, I would love to use his face to hit Cruz's face. They both are so damn punchable.

Has someone stolen the Wu Tang album back yet? I don't want to hear about this guy unless it's him saying Bill Murray and the entire Wu Tang Clan stole that album from his apartment.

 

[Foffy]

Basic income is the best solution i've heard so far as a response to automation.

I'd love to hear any alternatives.

Starvation or a resource based economy removing the money system.

Both are extremes. The former can just simply happen if we keep what we're doing up with no change, but the latter quite literally requires a worldwide paradigm shift. It's a non-starter, because it would mean to negate the notion of dualism and division we infer personally onto the world, and religion is all about keeping that lens in tact, where most people are already caught in. How many still look at race as a means of social hierarchies? Too many to group, honestly.

Seeing as we're a species still ignorant to reality in a day to day basis, the only answer is compassion with where we are, that's a basic income. In a society that says you need money, we've already long past the notion of work for sole survival value. You can argue we've passed that when this was considered in the Nixon days. Automation is a trend that forces this to be accepted, or else the results are dire.

Now, how one cultivates a basic income system is the big question. Do we go whole way, or most of the way?

 

[ampere]

I'm confused by Kristoffer's posts sometimes. I don't know if he's actually saying China has a good human rights track record?

Of course the US has committed many atrocities and there are many areas where we need to get better, but saying China is somehow not as bad or better is trolling or ignorance

Also people, stop getting baited by that Trump supporter. You know they don't wanna have a real conversation and just want to derail

 

[DrForester]

What the hell, NBC...

 

[Abinash117]

It wouldn't be happy. I disagree with US policy because I don't care about promoting human rights and democracy. That's all.


We had TWO wars with Great Britain and stole their colonies, and we almost succeeded in invading Canada.

Well then we won't be allies and friends anytime soon.

And so? Do know that was literally centuries ago? Just because they were are enemies now doesn't mean we can't be allies and before you think that is exactly it; that is because we changed policies towards each other and the British lost their empire. Also we are back to being rivals to the Russians again. . Unless change the Chinese change or we do plus the interests no being allies.

 

[User 463088]

What the hell, NBC...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Holy shit. I legit laughed my fucking ass off over that. Fuck. That got me.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

What the hell, NBC...

Sweet caramelized Jesus

 

[Poodlestrike]

What the hell, NBC...

Phrasiiiiiiiiiiiiing