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[AntraxSuicide]

Lot of replying!

I think we can probably argue Bernie has been worse for the party thus far, since Hillary and Obama's attacks on each other weren't really attacks on the party

Bernie can make some things right with how he exits the race, but he seems so damn angry I dunno if he will. On Keepin' it 1600 it was interesting hearing those guys talk about how much they hated Hillary in 08 and how it took a long time to cool off, I guess things do get heated in an election, but Bernie hasn't even been close for months! So it's not really as reasonable for him to be in it

Bernie's attitude comes from his relative obscurity before now. I honestly believe he's drunk on the rallies and the spotlight, which are both something he's never really had before. Hillary didn't have that particular hang-up in '08, so it's not quite the same in the back stretch.

Were he merely playing nice, all he'd get is a symbolic nod. What he's hoping is that the DNC is conscious of being scrutinized by a decent chunk of people they'd like to have vote for them, and acting with that consideration in mind. It's cynical, but I gotta give the man credit, it's probably his best bet.

Edit: Also, welcome back, Crab.

Also also, all primaries should either be open, or closed but with same-day registration, for both parties. If they are not, the DNC and GOP can fund them, themselves, instead of leaving independents on the hook for a process they're not allowed a say in without compromising their sense of political identity.

He should only get a symbolic nod, and I'm cool with the parties paying for their own closed primaries. I'd prefer that option, with the added suggestion from Suikoguy (I think?) that you can switch up until the first primary. Then you're locked in. Otherwise, why join?

I wasn't looking at it from the perspective of having sympathy or hatred for it, just strategically. I really don't care one way or the other what Bernie Sanders does, because I don't think he really has any power to make Trump president. He's an inferior version of what Bill Bradley was back in 2000, really, and likely equally doomed to obscurity. If he wants to be dragged into the sunset kicking and screaming, let him.

The bold is what I was getting at earlier. No one will remember the guy in 8 years, much like most people couldn't bother to know who lost to Kerry, Bush, or Gore.

Here is what i'd be happy with:

Get rid of caucuses, if that means the party helping pay for primaries in all 50 states so be it. In exchange, i'd agree to semi-open primaries in all states. Although I have many reservations, such as: what would be the fucking point of registering for anything but being independent?

Ideally, what i'd like to see is all states be closed primaries, with same day registration for new voters. Changing parties must be done one week before the first primary date.

Yeah, this. If it's self-funded, I don't care. But only members of a party should decide the lunch menu at the convention, let alone something as serious as a presidential candidate.

I agree with this.

Lately, I've also have been wondering if this election's primary schedule has been worth it. Obama did credit a drawn out primary for helping him seed his ground game in the general, but further extending it this year has only made the primary more drawn out and taxing. And 08 was a primary between two candidates that, while competitive, ultimately respected each other, the process and the party. Having to contend with an obstinate Bernie Sanders for this long is definitely hurting Hillary's favorables, and giving him ample time to spin lies about the party's legitimacy. With 08's schedule, Bernie would have been snuffed out by now.

I don't care the long primary either. It could be done with 5 states every Tuesday for 2 months (and some change), and then call it. This primary (on both sides) has shown us a lot:
1) Superdelegates are good (looking at you, RNC).
2) Long primaries are prone to math-illiterate campaigns dragging out their end.
3) Debates are a mistake beyond the first round of primaries.
4) A large bench is actually a bit of a liability.

 

[Crisco]

I've decided Trailer Park Boys is the best show ever, especially for when you're getting fucked up on weed and liqour.

 

[Jack Remington]

I think we're way past the point of allowing what Bernie Sanders is inciting with his campaign to be considered "fair criticism."

It's like Liu Kang and Johnny Cage had a match to decide who would represent Earth against Outworld's champion, and Liu Kang won, and now Johnny Cage is drunk and chucking beer bottles at Liu Kang from outside the ring as Shao Khan is coming at him.

Edit: Sonya is obviously the better Hillary analogue.

 

[Paskil]

It's like Liu Kang and Johnny Cage had a match to decide who would represent Earth against Outworld's champion, and Liu Kang won, and now Johnny Cage is drunk and chucking beer bottles at Liu Kang from outside the ring as Shao Khan is coming at him.

 

[User 463088]

until the dancing started i liked that snl hillary bernie cold opening

 

[Macho Madness]

Yep: https://twitter.com/cd_hooks/status/734169208502767616

 

[pigeon]

Semi-hot take: the existence and current status of the Green Party is already sufficient evidence that a Progressive Party would not be successful.

 

[Crayons]

I've decided Trailer Park Boys is the best show ever, especially for when you're getting fucked up on weed and liqour.

i watched that show for like 8 seasons and i dont think i laughed once

 

[Suikoguy]

i watched that show for like 8 seasons and i dont think i laughed once

Then why did you watch it for 8 seasons?!?

 

[Crayons]

Then why did you watch it for 8 seasons?!?

 

[Clefargle]

I've decided Trailer Park Boys is the best show ever, especially for when you're getting fucked up on weed and liqour.

You pass with flying carpet

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Semi-hot take: the existence and current status of the Green Party is already sufficient evidence that a Progressive Party would not be successful.

Accurate. We already have a left-wing party that appeals to a large chunk of Americans. Democrats.

Then why did you watch it for 8 seasons?!?

 

[User 463088]

snl and marshmallow vodka in cherry peopsi

one of these was a big mistake.....

snl is a mess

 

[Wilsongt]

Semi-hot take: the existence and current status of the Green Party is already sufficient evidence that a Progressive Party would not be successful.

Yeah but there are MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of upset Bernie supporters who hate the Democrats and are ready to start a new progressive party!

Also, according to Haha, Emaillary will be indicted soon.

 

[eBay Huckster]

snl and marshmallow vodka in cherry peopsi

one of these was a big mistake.....

Only one?

 

[Box of Kittens]

Semi-hot take: the existence and current status of the Green Party is already sufficient evidence that a Progressive Party would not be successful.

This kind of got me thinking. Suppose the Democratic Party simply adopted the Green Party platform. What percentage of Green Party supporters would still vote third party? My guess is it would be a significant percentage.

 

[Poodlestrike]

snl and marshmallow vodka in cherry peopsi

one of these was a big mistake.....

snl is a mess

I count at least 4 mistakes

-SNL
-Marshmallow Vodka
-Cherry Cola
-Pepsi

 

[User 463088]

Only one?

I count at least 4 mistakes

-SNL
-Marshmallow Vodka
-Cherry Cola
-Pepsi

 

[eBay Huckster]

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

snl and marshmallow vodka in cherry peopsi

I'm calling the police.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm calling the police.

bwhahaha

 

[User 463088]

I'm calling the police.

 

[saltypickles]

This kind of got me thinking. Suppose the Democratic Party simply adopted the Green Party platform. What percentage of Green Party supporters would still vote third party? My guess is it would be a significant percentage.

Well obviously even if the platform was the same, the Democrats wouldn't act on it because they are lying neoliberal shills controlled by the MILLIONAHS and BILLIONAHS on Wall Street!1!!!1!! True progressives would only vote for a third party candidate like anti-vaxxer Jill Stein.

 

[B-Dubs]

Well obviously even if the platform was the same, the Democrats wouldn't act on it because they are lying neoliberal shills controlled by the MILLIONAHS and BILLIONAHS on Wall Street!1!!!1!!

Pretty much this.

Also I don't want the Dems anywhere near the Green Party platform. Way too much anti-science crap in there.

 

[aspiegamer]

The process of morphing into its true form has begun at /s4p, of the top 25 on the first page--

Items related to DWS: 7, 6 of which are by name.
Complaints against Clinton, including debate things: 6, 5 of which are by name.
Items related to fundraising: 5
Related to state conventions/legal: 4
Actual discussions with the word "Sanders" in there somewhere: 2, one of which is sarcastic.
Other: 1 (a 1-line complaint about Rachel Maddow)

 

[hammysaurusrex]

Yeah, the fundamental "purpose" of the Green party to me is suspect. The Democrats can always move more left and appeal to their members, but the Green party is based on the concept of an ideologically 'pure' progressive - they don't have any flexibility to move right. That ideology also means a lot of baggage; their anti-vaccines and anti-GMO views don't help them any more than climate denial and Creationism help the right - sure it might be popular with the base that's already committed, but it's not a great feature for attracting outsiders that are looking in who might otherwise by sympathetic to their policy agenda. Contrary to apparent recent events, I don't think most people are looking for spirituality from their political choices - though I might be wrong.

 

[Suikoguy]

Yeah, the fundamental "purpose" of the Green party to me is suspect. The Democrats can always move more left and appeal to their members, but the Green party is based on the concept of an ideologically 'pure' progressive - they don't have any flexibility to move right. That ideological pure also means a lot of baggage; their anti-vaccines and anti-GMO views don't help them any more than climate denial and Creationism help the right - sure it might be popular with the base that's already committed, but it's not a great feature for attracting outsiders that are looking in who might otherwise by sympathetic to their policy agenda. Contrary to apparent recent events, I don't think most people are looking for spirituality from their political choices - though I might be wrong.

The green party would probably get like 12% of the vote in another political system. And they would form a coalition with the liberal side.

 

[saltypickles]

Meltdown May has not disappointed this year:

"Intersectional Twitter" has no power compared to Socialist Twitter because Freddie says so! Lets just conveniently ignore the fact that IT's preferred candidate needs less than 100 delegates to clinch the nomination.

 

[User 463088]

weekend update is draging trump. yaaas you too sexy men drag ha!

 

[Abinash117]

Don't think this was posted

Hillary Clinton’s skill and experience in raising money have provided her with a dominant financial lead over her Democratic and Republican rivals, according to the latest Federal Election Commission reports.

Filings for the month of April show that Clinton and her remaining competitor for the Democratic Party nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.), raised about the same amount of money, each reporting receipts topping $26 million. But Sanders was spending money at a far greater rate and had just $5.8 million on hand at the end of the month, compared with Clinton’s reported cash on hand of $30 million.

Meanwhile, the reports laid bare the challenge facing Donald Trump, who is now focused on the general election. Clinton has far outpaced Trump in spending to build a campaign infrastructure and in building financial reserves for the long race to Election Day in November. Each campaign is expected to spend $1 billion or more in their quest to win the White House.

Running as a self-funded candidate not beholden to traditional donors, Trump has so far raised and spent less than many of his Republican opponents and far less than Clinton. All told, Trump and his supporters have raised about $59.4 million so far, compared with Clinton’s total of nearly $300 million. Most of Trump’s money has come from loans he made to the campaign, totaling $43.4 million, including $7.5 million in April alone. Clinton and Sanders have each spent close to $200 million, compared with $56.5 million by Trump.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/trumps-campaign-dwarfed-by-clintons-223438

At the outset of the general election, Hillary Clinton’s campaign looks like a well-oiled juggernaut next to Donald Trump’s vastly smaller, self-funded operation, a POLITICO analysis of Federal Election Commission reports filed Friday found.

Through the end of last month, the period covered by the most recent FEC filings, Trump’s campaign had spent less than a third as much Clinton’s ($57 million to $182 million) and had assembled a staff about one-tenth the size of her (70 employees to 732), with a fraction as many offices (Trump last month paid $101,000 in rent vs. $328,000 for Clinton), the analysis found.

Trump — a billionaire rookie candidate whose own money had accounted for 75 percent of the $59 million brought in by his campaign — is moving quickly to buttress his campaign operations, partly by launching a fundraising and field operation in coordination with the Republican National Committee.

He still has Twitter with like 8 million followers and the media pretty much will report whatever he says and will do a lot of interviews with him. The biggest obstacles is Hillary's unfavorablities which will improve somewhat, but not by a lot right now.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump’s message that international trade hurts the country has majority support among all adults, with 53 percent saying those trade deals have done more to take away jobs than create jobs. But his support for deporting the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants, as well as his call for a temporary ban on Muslims, is opposed by 50 percent, slightly more than those who back the proposals.

How are we 50/50 on "Should we ruin the lives of 11 million people and ban Islam"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...4ccfd6-1ed3-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html

Man, humans are terrible.

 

[pigeon]

You don't oil juggernauts.

 

[eBay Huckster]

You don't oil juggernauts.

maybe YOU don't oil juggernauts, but who's to say i shouldn't

 

[Suikoguy]

How are we 50/50 on "Should we ruin the lives of 11 million people and ban Islam"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...4ccfd6-1ed3-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html

Man, humans are terrible.

Those issue questions show something is up with the overall favorability numbers.

What that something is, I don't know.

 

[B-Dubs]

The green party would probably get like 12% of the vote in another political system. And they would form a coalition with the liberal side.

I don't think they'd do much better than they do now. Don't forget that the Dems (and GOP) are essentially two or three different parties formed together through necessity. In a parliamentary system each of those parties would be it's own thing.

 

[User1608]

How are we 50/50 on "Should we ruin the lives of 11 million people and ban Islam"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...4ccfd6-1ed3-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html

Man, humans are terrible.

One gets used to it.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Pretty much this.

Also I don't want the Dems anywhere near the Green Party platform. Way too much anti-science crap in there.

Agreed. They're terrible.

I guess this was sort of on my mind because I recently saw the argument that the Democrats should have actively tried to court people who voted Green after the 2000 election. I think that's a troublesome stance because (1) there's just not that many Green Party voters, (2) many of them likely aren't winnable by Democrats, (3) it would be hard to get them without alienating other voters, and (4) 2000 was by far the high water mark for the Green Party, which suggests their relative success that year was more due to one-time factors.

 

[Armaros]

The green party would probably get like 12% of the vote in another political system. And they would form a coalition with the liberal side.

If we had a parliamentary system, the green party wouldn't be the green party of today if they actually wanted votes. Their current design is the "we go farther left on everything no matter what' stance, to be the super left 'dems' but that wouldn't get them dem allies. The big Dem party would look for other more, rational smaller groups that would exist in such a system instead.

 

[Suikoguy]

I don't think they'd do much better than they do now. Don't forget that the Dems (and GOP) are essentially two or three different parties formed together through necessity. In a parliamentary system each of those parties would be it's own thing.

Yeah, it's tough to tell. On a similar note, so many people don't get that the coalitions in our government are formed in the primaries before the general election, so in effect you are choosing between two coalitions not candidates. A good degree of the compromise is done before the voting in the general election even starts.

I've posted that CCP Grey video on First Past the Post like 20 times now.
People won't take 6 minutes to learn how the political system works, but will take far minutes more bitching about it.

If we had a parliamentary system, the green party wouldn't be the green party of today if they actually wanted votes. Their current design is the "we go farther left on everything no matter what' stance, which doesn't get you allies.

Good point, that was similar to what I was thinking, hence only 12%.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Man, 85% of Republicans are ready to vote for a white nationalist.

I mean, two years ago, not even the most hardcore liberals would say "85% of the Republican Party and all of its leadership would be okay with a possible NeoNazi being leader of the United States."

And he's like one of the worst possible white supremacists because he's so thin skinned that he might actually do horrible things even if it gets him impeached.

 

[User1608]

I'm ready and expecting to lose many of my Republican friends this fall. When they are going to vote for a man who wants me to suffer for a tax break, fuck them.

 

[Wilsongt]

Man, 85% of Republicans are ready to vote for a white nationalist.

I mean, two years ago, not even the most hardcore liberals would say "85% of the Republican Party and all of its leadership would be okay with a possible NeoNazi being leader of the United States."

And he's like one of the worst possible white supremacists because he's so thin skinned that he might actually do horrible things even if it gets him impeached.

They are so angry over a black man helping other black people do better that they are wiling to vote for a racist, thin-skinned, xenophobic, sexist, narcissitic sociopath.

 

[ampere]

Btw to anyone curious, changed my username ciaossu -> ampere

Semi-hot take: the existence and current status of the Green Party is already sufficient evidence that a Progressive Party would not be successful.

It gets hard to standardize what exactly is "progressive" anyway. Questioning vaccines is "progressive" by Green party standards lol

Best reply lol.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

They are so angry over a black man helping other black people do better that they are wiling to vote for a racist, thin-skinned, xenophobic, sexist, narcissitic sociopath.

I wonder how much of the Republican Party would actually consolidate around David Duke if Duke had become the nominee.

Duke probably wouldn't have insulted people like Gowdy as much as Trump did at least!

 

[sphagnum]

Man, 85% of Republicans are ready to vote for a white nationalist.

I mean, two years ago, not even the most hardcore liberals would say "85% of the Republican Party and all of its leadership would be okay with a possible NeoNazi being leader of the United States."

And he's like one of the worst possible white supremacists because he's so thin skinned that he might actually do horrible things even if it gets him impeached.

 

[ampere]

I'm ready and expecting to lose many of my Republican friends this fall. When they are going to vote for a man who wants me to suffer for a tax break, fuck them.

/hug

It's rough sometimes. While I'm out of work now so it's not a problem, when employed I'm super careful about bringing up politics with coworkers. Because I don't want to dislike them, and I have to work with them even if they have abhorrent views! It's a bit awkward.

 

[User1608]

/hug

It's rough sometimes. While I'm out of work now so it's not a problem, when employed I'm super careful about bringing up politics with coworkers. Because I don't want to dislike them, and I have to work with them even if they have abhorrent views! It's a bit awkward.

Same here. It can get awkward occasionally. The good thing is my boss is a really cool guy so we get along well. We can talk politics no problem either: we couldn't be more different from each other. He's a middle-aged straight, white male evangelical Christian and I'm a hispanic, millennial, progressive, Catholic trans girl lol. He's more of the wholesome, small government type so he's very easy to get along with. Always good to have a good person to share and talk opposing views (federal Gov) with!

 

[Suikoguy]

My last boss was Mexican and having immigration trouble with his Wife. I doubt I would have any trouble with him this election, hehe.

He was fairly moderate, but I wonder what he thinks this election. Maybe i'll bother him and see how things are going...

Edit: Looking at the county results for where I worked, it was a remarkable liberal rural county. Went to Romney for 56%.

 

[thepotatoman]

Washington Post/ABC poll

Registered Voters:
46 Trump - 44 Clinton

Even with the party unity stuff suggesting Clinton will catch up, it shouldn't be this difficult to do well against trump.

 

[Retromelon]

At this point the ideal scenario is that life imitates art and the democrat national convention proceeds like the ending to the first shrek. Hillary is having the crown placed on her head by Debbie Fraudsterman Shultz but Bernie charges in roaring I OBJECT

Hillary's army of cultists surround our protagonist droning yas queen and its not looking good, but them a fucking dragon bursts through the chapel window and eats hillary. Bernie gets nominated on the first ballot.

It made me feel very happy typing this