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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!

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P

Piecake

Member
Kristoffer said:
Corporate taxes exist because the massive wealth of a company potentially does not translate into income for shareholders for many, many years. Corporate taxes exist for a variety of reasons, actually, and suggesting to get rid of them is really silly.

I get that you want to raise the income tax and capital gains tax but that does not substitute a real corporate tax.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/opinion/abolish-the-corporate-income-tax.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/opinion/a-progressive-way-to-replace-corporate-taxes.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/opinion/end-corporate-taxation.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/abolishing-corporate-income-tax-good-american-workers/

http://www.businessinsider.com/6-reasons-to-get-rid-of-the-corporate-income-tax-2013-11

http://www.wsj.com/articles/john-st...o-abolish-the-corporate-income-tax-1419899269

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...uld-eliminate-the-corporate-income-tax/65351/

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-06-19/how-to-kill-the-corporate-income-tax

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/8/5982479/the-big-problem-with-abolishing-corporate-taxes

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/8/25/1324505/-Eliminate-corporate-tax-seriously

I'll let Robert Reich make the argument.

It's time we eliminated the corporate income tax and made up the shortfall by increasing capital gains taxes. Here's the logic: First, the corporate income tax favors big companies that are able to shift their income abroad and engage in other tax-avoidance activities, while harming small companies that can't do any of this and therefore suffer a competitive disadvantage. Yet small companies are the engines of job growth in America.

Second, the people who actually pay the corporate income tax should properly be the company's shareholders, who are the legal owners of the company and who benefit from increases in its income. But in many cases, depending on the structure of the market, a significant share of the actual burden of paying the corporate income tax is often borne instead by employees in the form of lower wages, or consumers in the form of higher prices.
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Corporations will not simply sit on their money and do nothing with it. They will either invest it by expanding their business operations, increase salaries, do a stock buyback or raise their dividends to their shareholders. The first one is simply good for the economy and the others put money in the hands of rich people that are then taxed.

The benefit of this, as Robert Reich notes, is that companies will no longer flee overseas with jobs to avoid paying taxes. Moreover, it is also less disruptive to the market.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Piecake said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/opinion/abolish-the-corporate-income-tax.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/opinion/a-progressive-way-to-replace-corporate-taxes.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/opinion/end-corporate-taxation.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/abolishing-corporate-income-tax-good-american-workers/

http://www.businessinsider.com/6-reasons-to-get-rid-of-the-corporate-income-tax-2013-11

http://www.wsj.com/articles/john-st...o-abolish-the-corporate-income-tax-1419899269

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...uld-eliminate-the-corporate-income-tax/65351/

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-06-19/how-to-kill-the-corporate-income-tax

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/8/5982479/the-big-problem-with-abolishing-corporate-taxes

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/8/25/1324505/-Eliminate-corporate-tax-seriously



Corporations will not simply sit on their money and do nothing with it. They will either invest it by expanding their business operations, increase salaries, do a stock buyback or raise their dividends to their shareholders. The first one is simply good for the economy and the others put money in the hands of rich people that are then taxed.

The benefit of this, as Robert Reich notes, is that companies will no longer flee overseas with jobs to avoid paying taxes. Moreover, it is also less disruptive to the market.
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... I just got wrecked :(
 
P

Piecake

Member
Kristoffer said:
... I just got wrecked :(
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It does feel counter-intuitive and just plain wrong at first. I mean, it just feels natural to want corporations to pay their fair of taxes.

It also seems like you were a bit confused about how dividends work, which is really essential in understanding why eliminating the corporate tax can work. Increases in salary, stock buybacks, and dividends are the ways that corporations give money to the rich people who work at the place and rich people who own the company (shareholders) the profit that the company is generating.

That is a lot more easily taxed than taxing businesses because businesses can flee over seas and have complicated loopholes and other crap. If you tax people you will get that taxable income and more directly tax the people who own and run the business instead of the employees who work there. I mean, it is a lot easier to move a business headquarters overseas than it is for an individual to make that life-changing decision. And hell, I am pretty sure American citizens still get taxed by the US if they live abroad.
 
T

titiklabingapat

Member
One Democratic operative made a good point at Left, Right & Center today on NPR that Trump has this pattern of saying outrageous things and then backing up. He followed up with (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Make no mistake, what he said and has said had been heard by those with the tendencies to revert to the darkest aspects of our culture and society'. He did it with the birther stuff, he did it with the David Duke stuff, he did it with the ISIS founders = Obama + Hillary stuff, and he did it with the 'Second Amendment people' stuff. Now he is doing it with the election observer thing.

Trump is actively instigating the complete disintegration of our civil society and institutions at this point, imo.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Young Americans already don't care about democracy and hate Trump so much that Trump attacking American democracy may cause young Americans to believe more in American democracy.

Or that's the hope at least.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
Vigilant Walrus said:
You'd think that as the oil argument evaporates as a "necessary evil" for continuing to do arms deals with SA, America would come down hard on them. Saudi Arabias human rights violation are comparative to ISIS in many ways. Their extremism, sponsorship and arming of extremist rebels is what will get innocents killed.
This is America at their most vile, and where they deserve all the fucking scorn there is to give.





http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-defense-idUSKCN10K1JR
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at least we found a use for all those M1 Abrams Congress wanted to build that the military didn't want
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Man God said:
I'm saying it's one of the few Democratic buzz words that stuck over the years, nothing more nothing less. They suck at condensing the message down to a soundbite or phrase compared to Republicans.
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The funny thing is that Voodoo Economics was coined by George Bush, so even there it's a matter of conservatives with success at labeling things.

Fake edit: Reaganomics was coined by Paul Harvey, so another conservative.

They are just better at this stuff.
 
S

Slurpy2k20

Member
Screen_Shot_2016_08_13_at_8_55_58_AM.png


the WND comment section is like 100% these posts. Unreal. What a bunch of pathetic cowards.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
Rebel Leader said:
Trump election observer? wow
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We can only assume that they'll be given proper training; Told they cannot actually enter the polling place and cannot actually attempt to interact with persons entering the polling place. Right? Right?! Or at least be told that there's no specific "thing" they could ever possibly be trained to "look for?" This will be a very orderly process, I'm sure!

No joke, if someone claiming to be some kind of "observer" for Trump (hell, or Clinton) set a single foot into my polling location and dare ever speak a word to me I'd knee them in the junk. Actually, screw that. I instead might be tempted to just stand there and record them being an idiot for as long as my phone battery lasted, which would more than cover the amount of time it took for actual law enforcement to show up.

Oh ho ho, Based Smerconish as I write this airing the classic Republican (related) gripe of something supposedly similar, which was some, gasp, black guys standing outside their apartment building in 2008 in some sort of attempted "gotcha" conservative social justice moment. Problem is that they were never filmed actually trying to harass anyone, nor were there any complaints to law enforcement.
Paradoxal_Utopia said:
the WND comment section is like 100% these posts. Unreal. What a bunch of pathetic cowards.
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5001 reliable voters mean more on election day than 5000 fanatics. Sanders people had the same lack of comprehension.
 
G

gcubed

Member
adam387 said:
If they refuse to leave, they will be arrested. If they attempt to enter a polling location, they will be told to leave. If they do not, they will be arrested. If they harass people entering the voting both, they will be arrested.

They can claim whatever they want whenever they want. No one will care, and if they do care, so what? We'll have won, and he can beat his tiny, tiny hands against his Doritos colored chest all day long.

Hillary will also have poll watchers as needed. Hers will actually be trained, competent and sane individuals.
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i'm not sure why anyone is up in arms over this... Its general bullshit thats not worth the time of day
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Ether relies too much on its homophobia whereas Takeover's dismissive tone and wider scale attack puts it well over the top.

This is the main thrust of Ether and it is very good.



But that's not really better at all than the main verse in Takeover:



Jay-Z crushes Nas' lack of business sense, lack of productivity, turns the starting point of the beef into a point for him ("So yeah, I sampled your voice, you was using it wrong") while making Nas just look jealous and petty. Nas ends up looking naive, fake, and jealous as hell after this. Nas and Jay-Z both attack the other's lack of authenticity, but I'm not sure who does a better job with that. I think Jay-Z's seizing on Nas' pretentiousness works well though.

Taking out those verses from each song, the rest of Takeover is clearly better than the rest of Ether.

Ether also is against pussy eating and that's a clear strike against it.
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Revisionist history. Jay-Z asked Nas to do a verse on Dead Presidents II in 1996, Nas refused because Jay wasn't on his level. He sent some slick subliminal disses on It Was Written and the Cold War began.

The thrust of Takeover isn't even true. Jay claims The World Is Yours is meh, then claims Nas only has one good album. Yet to this day people act like Takeover is pure facts. The accusations fell on their face, and Nas came back with an emotional yet potent response that said everything that needed to be said about Hov.

Takeover is a good diss record but it's not on Ether's level. I'd argue the near universal way Ether is regarded as the winner is a clear rejection of Jay's attacks. And let's not forget Jay was crying over Ether on Hot 97 after it was released. It's clear who won.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Election observers aren't anything new, but I just know some of Trump's are going to cause problems. Because to them, the election observers will become "enforcers" in their minds, so they'll probably be obnoxious and intimidating.

Hopefully Hillary's are vigilant with that and make sure they get kicked out if they're being too much of a bother.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
I wonder what laywers Trump is going to hire for election day? "NBC news can project that the state of VA will go for Hillary Clinton"

Trump lawyer: "Why are the networks projecting these states already without all the votes iin?" "We smell fraud". "Demand recount"
 
T

thestopsign

Member
I only see the election observers as a problem if they actively interfere with anyone trying to vote. They probably will and it will look horrible for Trump.
 
D

Diablos

Member
NeoXChaos said:
I wonder what laywers Trump is going to hire for election day? "NBC news can project that the state of VA will go for Hillary Clinton"

Trump lawyer: "Why are the networks projecting these states already without all the votes iin?" "We smell fraud". "Demand recount"
Click to expand...
It's gonna be nuts.
 
D

dramatis

Member
I wish that at the end of the election, one of the poll aggregators does like a "end of game Civ 5" map, only with this election, showing how the whole map moved blue.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Except if any of you chicken littles looked at the BECOME AN ELECTION OBSERVER link it's just a scam that takes you to a donation page!
 
I

Iolo

Member
NeoXChaos said:
I wonder what laywers Trump is going to hire for election day? "NBC news can project that the state of VA will go for Hillary Clinton"

Trump lawyer: "Why are the networks projecting these states already without all the votes iin?" "We smell fraud". "Demand recount"
Click to expand...

Well now we know why he is accumulating tens of millions of dollars instead of spending it on ads or a campaign infrastructure: litigation!
 
T

Teggy

Member
John Kasich‏ @JohnKasich
Someone said we don’t win anymore. Must not be watching Americans swimming in Rio tonight! #Rio2016

Lolololol
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
titiklabingapat said:
One Democratic operative made a good point at Left, Right & Center today on NPR that Trump has this pattern of saying outrageous things and then backing up. He followed up with (I'm paraphrasing here) 'Make no mistake, what he said and has said had been heard by those with the tendencies to revert to the darkest aspects of our culture and society'. He did it with the birther stuff, he did it with the David Duke stuff, he did it with the ISIS founders = Obama + Hillary stuff, and he did it with the 'Second Amendment people' stuff. Now he is doing it with the election observer thing.

Trump is actively instigating the complete disintegration of our civil society and institutions at this point, imo.
Click to expand...

Even after he loses, Trump is going to leave a long-lasting stain on American politics
 
I

Iolo

Member
Teggy said:
Check out that sudden divergence

http://cesrusc.org/election/

Check out the "intention to vote by candidate" link. Very interesting.
Click to expand...

Nate Silver noted this too and (in pundit mode) suggested it might be because of his "rigged" message. I don't think one can impute that from the data--the rigged message has really only taken off in the last few days--but interesting to note. I think they are just getting demoralized because of how dumb a candidate Trump is.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Iolo said:
Nate Silver noted this too and (in pundit mode) suggested it might be because of his "rigged" message. I don't think one can impute that from the data--the rigged message has really only taken off in the last few days--but interesting to note. I think they are just getting demoralized because of how dumb a candidate Trump is.
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I think they're getting demoralized because they think he's going to lose.

They're probably right of course.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
i made a thread about Doug Basham the other day that got like 100 views and no replies so id figure id post it here instead of self bumping. im assuming PoliGAF listens to AM radio to see what the right wing is saying.. is there any AM radio like this guy in America or is this guy the only one? ive looked around on Google and i figured something would come up in major places like NYC and LA but its been a bust. i just got done listening to his caller hour from last week and i cannot wait until this afternoon.

Anyway.. heres my thread post about Doug Basham:
]
b8PxMjI.jpg


In the Las Vegas metropolitan area the AM radio landscape is unfortunately what one would expect anywhere in the country. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingrahm, Michael Savage, Mark Levine, and countless other national and local ultra-right wing conservatives. There is one exception to the madness.. Las Vegas' very own candle in the dark, Doug Basham. He is a liberal talk radio host that has been on AM radio for at least 15 years. The shows timeslot is generously financed by a friend of his and he plays weekly smack dab right in the middle of ultra conservative hosts. The audience listening and calling in is extremely hostile but Doug Basham runs circles around them all owning everyone with reality and a sharp wit. To give you an idea of what a treat every Saturday is for me here is but a tiny sliver of an excerpt from last weeks show:
Doug Basham said:
But I am sorry right wing nuts, while everything Liz Mair just said is 100% true, this has gone way beyond the point of mere dickishness. We have come to the point where by this is no longer a topic for debate among intelligent, patriotic Americans. In fact, this just might be your last jumping off moment, as in jumping off the Trump train. And if you dont, it wont matter if you shower five times a day for the rest of your miserable, hate-filled lives. It wont matter if you use ten brands of soap and steel wool. You will never, ever, be able to eradicate the stench you will have acquired for betraying your country so profoundly, for having been so misguided, so brainwashed, so woefully and willfully ignorant to actually support and advocate for this monumentally unqualified, embarrassing, dangerous, unhinged, narcissistic, pathological sociopath to actually become our next President.

And theres so many things we can discuss this week.. it seems almost a lifetime ago when we were chastising Trump for having committed treason. That was only last week! Only Donald Trump would be capable of relegating a story of treason to the back burner.
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Every Saturday his show is on 2-4pm Pacific on AM720 if you are in southern Nevada or streaming KDWN.com. He also has years worth of shows up on his websites audio archives. There are even deeper cuts from years ago on his older, defunct website here. His Facebook page is also active and he interacts with people.

i've done a fair bit of Google searching but it seems like Doug Basham is an anomaly. Are there other liberal/progressive AM radio hosts out there in America because Basham is a-mazing and i need more than two hours per week.
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H

HylianTom

Banned
plagiarize said:
I think they're getting demoralized because they think he's going to lose.

They're probably right of course.
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Having a big gap in GOTV machinery will only exacerbate this. She gets to nudge and pull her voters to the polls, while his voters won't feel the same forces.

I've wondered if a portion of Trump's supporters remember the familiar "no, Romney's really winning!" rationalizations from 2012 and are now a bit more willing to entertain the possibility that, yes, he is losing. Bigly.
 
B

bigwinnerx

Member
I'm up in rural PA where I grew up from my current home in Loudoun County, VA. This is surely prime Trump demo territory - white, rural, noncollege. Will be interested to see how my H-> sticker goes on my car.
 
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