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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!

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P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I don't believe for a second that the amnesty thing is fake. That's a purposeful leak.

He does it with everything. He says something, then goes back on it, then confirms his original thought, etc. He wants some minorities to think he is in favor of it.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
royalan said:
I agree with this.

Hillary doesn't need to step on the bad media attention Trump is generating for himself, but I DO think her campaign needs to do a much better of defending itself and defending Hillary, because while Trump's a dumpster fire himself, a lot of the attacks he's lobbing at Hillary are resonating because they're just letting them hang (we saw that this week with the foundation). It's like months ago the campaign decided that the negative perceptions of Hillary are baked in, so not to waste time on fighting it. That's smart, to a degree. But she still needs to build and support the case that the claims against her are unfounded. Because this win in November needs to be a blowout, not just a win,

I was harassed on the subway last night on the way to hanging out with some friends. And I was talking to my friends about it, and we all agreed that there's a palpable shift in the country, even in liberal-ass Philly. I've been harassed more times for being gay in the last three months than I have been in years, and being pushed by a group of guys to the point that I had to punch a guy in the face to defend myself was something that hasn't happened to me since high school. And all of my friends agreed that there's been an uptick in emboldened ignorance.

November needs to be a repudiation of all the shit Trump has stirred up. I don't want to see Hillary just keeping her head down and sneaking into the White House because she did the quiet work. But that might just be emotions talking at the moment.
Click to expand...

I've actually noticed an increase in homophobic shit lately too. It actually started after Pulse. Not sure they're related, because that dosn't make sense, but it's when I felt the shift. My bf and I were out in Columbus the other night. We got called faggots by a group of all white 20 somethings. I'm used to it in the shitty part of the state I live, but it was really, really surprising because of where we were. Didn't expect it.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Plinko said:
I don't believe for a second that the amnesty thing is fake. That's a purposeful leak.

He does it with everything. He says something, then goes back on it, then confirms his original thought, etc. He wants some minorities to think he is in favor of it.
Click to expand...

Well, this would be the stupidest way to go about that, considering his campaign is now doubling down on the racist shit. You're giving them way too much credit. It was one guy who spoke to Univision. Other people that were there, including one they interviewed on MSNBC earlier, said that was never said or implied...just that the deportation would be "humane" whatever the fuck that means.
 
R

royalan

Member
adam387 said:
I've actually noticed an increase in homophobic shit lately too. It actually started after Pulse. Not sure they're related, because that dosn't make sense, but it's when I felt the shift. My bf and I were out in Columbus the other night. We got called faggots by a group of all white 20 somethings. I'm used to it in the shitty part of the state I live, but it was really, really surprising because of where we were. Didn't expect it.
Click to expand...

I was at City Hall when this happened. Not the nicest part of town, but nice enough that I was shocked by it. I mean, the Gayborhood is two blocks away.

adam387 said:
Well, this would be the stupidest way to go about that, considering his campaign is now doubling down on the racist shit. You're giving them way too much credit. It was one guy who spoke to Univision. Other people that were there, including one they interviewed on MSNBC earlier, said that was never said or implied...just that the deportation would be "humane" whatever the fuck that means.
Click to expand...

If you consider that Donald Trump's best asset is the bombast of his personality and his celebrity, and not necessarily his consistency, honesty, morals, toughness, or policy proposals (because he severely lacks in all of these areas), then the strategy makes some sense...I guess.

The thinking is that people want to support Trump, but can't for this-that-or-the-other reason. So him him on both sides of every issue, and the people who want to support him will cling to the idea that he's for or against the thing that matters to them, and just ignore everything else.

It's how he won the primary. Don't think it'll work in the general, but heh...they've tried everything at this point.
 
T

tmarg

Member
Plinko said:
I don't believe for a second that the amnesty thing is fake. That's a purposeful leak.

He does it with everything. He says something, then goes back on it, then confirms his original thought, etc. He wants some minorities to think he is in favor of it.
Click to expand...

More likely it was just a weather balloon.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Kirk calls Obama "drug dealer in chief"

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/21/politics/mark-kirk-obama-drug-dealer-iran/index.html

Bye, duder.
Click to expand...
QGhar8Z.gif
 
U

User 463088

Banned
royalan said:
I was at City Hall when this happened. Not the nicest part of town, but nice enough that I was shocked by it. I mean, the Gayborhood is two blocks away.



If you consider that Donald Trump's best asset is the bombast of his personality and his celebrity, and not necessarily his consistency, honesty, morals, toughness, or policy proposals (because he severely lacks in all of these areas), then the strategy makes some sense...I guess.

The thinking is that people want to support Trump, but can't for this-that-or-the-other reason. So him him on both sides of every issue, and the people who want to support him will cling to the idea that he's for or against the thing that matters to them, and just ignore everything else.

It's how he won the primary. Don't think it'll work in the general, but heh...they've tried everything at this point.
Click to expand...

We were at a moderately expensive shopping mall type thing. Granted, it's where a lot of kids hang out, I guess, but still. Was totally surprising. These were grown ass people too, maybe a year or two younger than me. I had had a couple glasses of wine, so i didn't seem to care too much at the time.

I still don't think it's an uber intentional leak, because Trump's camp is going to double down on it. His campaign manager didn't have an answer to it on CNN today. Plus, this would require a competency and the ability to keep your surrogates on topic. Trump's people can't do that.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
adam387 said:
Well, this would be the stupidest way to go about that, considering his campaign is now doubling down on the racist shit. You're giving them way too much credit. It was one guy who spoke to Univision. Other people that were there, including one they interviewed on MSNBC earlier, said that was never said or implied...just that the deportation would be "humane" whatever the fuck that means.
Click to expand...

I don't know how much of it is intentional, but during this Election cycle Trump has highlighted/exploited the way most people consume their news. Because we use social networks to curate our news for us, it's possible for Trump to release multiple, obviously conflicting, statements. You can count on social media to sort those statements. Odds are that only one statement will make it into each bubble and odds are that it's the statement best suited for that bubble.

Trump can just throw out multiple truths and not sweat it.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
BlastProcessing said:
I don't know how much of it is intentional, but during this Election cycle Trump has highlighted/exploited the way most people consume their news. Because we use social networks to curate our news for us, it's possible for Trump to release multiple, obviously conflicting, statements. You can count on social media to sort those statements. Odds are that only one statement will make it into each bubble and odds are that it's the statement best suited for that bubble.

Trump can just throw out multiple truths and not sweat it.
Click to expand...

Until the debates that is. Unless he decides not to show, the debates are where all those conflicting statements will intersect. It's a plan that will only work for so long.
 
I

Iolo

Member
Plinko said:
I don't believe for a second that the amnesty thing is fake. That's a purposeful leak.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, your evil twin on the GOP side is also examining Trump's every word for evidence he is finally pivoting. A kind of reverse Diablos

Anyone at the meeting, held at Trump Tower, who got the impression that Trump had changed his position on foreigners in the United States illegally misinterpreted his remarks, she said.
Click to expand...

Now just misinterpreting Trump's remarks is illegal? Well I never.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
adam387 said:
We were at a moderately expensive shopping mall type thing. Granted, it's where a lot of kids hang out, I guess, but still. Was totally surprising. These were grown ass people too, maybe a year or two younger than me. I had had a couple glasses of wine, so i didn't seem to care too much at the time.
Click to expand...

i can probably tell which mall this was just from this description (or at the very least it's one of three) and i'm completely not surprised that there'd be a bunch of homophobic white dudes at any of them
 
U

User1608

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Until the debates that is. Unless he decides not to show, the debates are where all those conflicting statements will intersect. It's a plan that will only work for so long.
Click to expand...
Yup, it's going to be beautiful to witness live when the moderators ask him to follow up on those statements.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Just saw Bobby Mook (Clinton campaign manager) accuse Trump of being a Kremlin puppet on ABC News.

I mean, yeah, it's not the craziest attack since Paul Manafort was just found to be literally an agent of pro-Putin Ukraine, but the way he delivered it and said was, just, cringey. He definitely doesn't now how to attack that way.

But, it means they are considering going after that line of attack, and could mean their own internals are showing that Trump's insinuations and attacks against Hillary (more than his pivot) are having an effect.

I also don't think the pivot will mean much, but it's things like #WheresHillary, her health and continued problems with her emails and the Clinton Foundation that are most dangerous. Again, the same story as always: The Clintons sometimes are their own worst enemy.
 
R

royalan

Member
Joeytj said:
Just saw Bobby Mook (Clinton campaign manager) accuse Trump of being a Kremlin puppet on ABC News.

I mean, yeah, it's not the craziest attack since Paul Manafort was just found to be literally an agent of pro-Putin Ukraine, but the way he delivered it and said was, just, cringey. He definitely doesn't now how to attack that way.

But, it means they are considering going after that line of attack, and could mean their own internals are showing that Trump's insinuations and attacks against Hillary (more than his pivot) are having an effect.

I also don't think the pivot will mean much, but it's things like #WheresHillary, her health and continued problems with her emails and the Clinton Foundation that are most dangerous. Again, the same story as always: The Clintons sometimes are their own worst enemy.
Click to expand...

*Ahem

Get my husband's name right.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Joeytj said:
Just saw Bobby Mook (Clinton campaign manager) accuse Trump of being a Kremlin puppet on ABC News.

I mean, yeah, it's not the craziest attack since Paul Manafort was just found to be literally an agent of pro-Putin Ukraine, but the way he delivered it and said was, just, cringey. He definitely doesn't now how to attack that way.

But, it means they are considering going after that line of attack, and could mean their own internals are showing that Trump's insinuations and attacks against Hillary (more than his pivot) are having an effect.

I also don't think the pivot will mean much, but it's things like #WheresHillary, her health and continued problems with her emails and the Clinton Foundation that are most dangerous. Again, the same story as always: The Clintons sometimes are their own worst enemy.
Click to expand...

Clinton is saving her attacks and her energies for when and if she needs them. If these brain disease attacks start working, then she can dispel them. But why respond to them when she's still sitting pretty right now? Again, nothing I've seen in the last few days is gaining any traction with the demographics Trump needs to gain traction with.

So... who cares? The debates are almost here. These health questions are going to get blown out of the water at the debates even if Clinton never even mentions them once.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Trump probably wants to keep the public and media guessing. I think he will pivot to *some* extent but fail at doing so in a meaningful and substantive way.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Iolo said:
Meanwhile, your evil twin on the GOP side is also examining Trump's every word for evidence he is finally pivoting. A kind of reverse Diablos



Now just misinterpreting Trump's remarks is illegal? Well I never.
Click to expand...
Trumps America. Fall in line journos, bloggers, talking heads.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Joeytj said:
Just saw Bobby Mook (Clinton campaign manager) accuse Trump of being a Kremlin puppet on ABC News.

I mean, yeah, it's not the craziest attack since Paul Manafort was just found to be literally an agent of pro-Putin Ukraine, but the way he delivered it and said was, just, cringey. He definitely doesn't now how to attack that way.

But, it means they are considering going after that line of attack, and could mean their own internals are showing that Trump's insinuations and attacks against Hillary (more than his pivot) are having an effect.

I also don't think the pivot will mean much, but it's things like #WheresHillary, her health and continued problems with her emails and the Clinton Foundation that are most dangerous. Again, the same story as always: The Clintons sometimes are their own worst enemy.
Click to expand...

Three and a half of the four things you mentioned were literally made up by the opposition.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Kirk calls Obama "drug dealer in chief"

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/21/politics/mark-kirk-obama-drug-dealer-iran/index.html

Bye, duder.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is awful. At least there's no need to spend any more money on this race.

========

So, random aside, but I just finished watching The West Wing, and...found it quite surprisingly enjoyable. I had seen the first 4.5 seasons when they originally aired, but quit during season 5 because thought it was getting boring. Now I kind of wish I had seen seasons 6 and 7 as they aired, but watching them now was kind of awesome too.

Honestly, after the Newsroom, I never thought I would be able to find Sorkin's writing to be anything other than completely pornographic. On top of of that, I've had a lot of trouble enjoying House of Cards, for example, just because it's too hard to suspend my disbelief when I know too much about a subject. So I was pleasantly surprised to find the West Wing mostly pretty enjoyable.

In the early seasons, most of Sorkin's quirks are visible, but at least toned down from where they ended up going. And yeah, it's a hyper-idealized vision on politics, alongside a hyper-simplified discussion of policy. But it's still good for what it is, and it's just real enough that I was able to accept that I was watching some sort of bizzaro world where things operated a little bit differently. I mean, yes, it is silly that "the gang" broked a peace deal between Israel and Palestine with the Secretary of State nowhere to be seen. Or, say, that the press secretary with a background in PR got promoted to chief of staff. But even those didn't really bother me. It's television.

I think it was really smart for the show to undergo the changes did in seasons 6 and 7, following the presidential race along side the lame duck White House. It was one of the most successful mid-run shake ups I've seen in a TV show. Reminded me a lot of Friday Night Lights, in a weird way.

Anyway, the last few episodes during the transition really stuck with me, seeing them for the first time right now. I'm sad to see Obama go, even as I'm excited to see Hilldawg run shit next. It's incredible how well those last few episodes evoke a lot of feelings we'll all probably be having in November, just as it's incredible how well their 2005-06 season basically called the 2008 presidential race.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
eBay Huckster said:
i can probably tell which mall this was just from this description (or at the very least it's one of three) and i'm completely not surprised that there'd be a bunch of homophobic white dudes at any of them
Click to expand...

We were at Easton, yup.

Joeytj said:
Just saw Bobby Mook (Clinton campaign manager) accuse Trump of being a Kremlin puppet on ABC News.

I mean, yeah, it's not the craziest attack since Paul Manafort was just found to be literally an agent of pro-Putin Ukraine, but the way he delivered it and said was, just, cringey. He definitely doesn't now how to attack that way.

But, it means they are considering going after that line of attack, and could mean their own internals are showing that Trump's insinuations and attacks against Hillary (more than his pivot) are having an effect.

I also don't think the pivot will mean much, but it's things like #WheresHillary, her health and continued problems with her emails and the Clinton Foundation that are most dangerous. Again, the same story as always: The Clintons sometimes are their own worst enemy.
Click to expand...

Eh, no. That's really not the read I'd take on that. Daddy Mook knows what he's doing. They hit back against the health things early. At the same time, you don't refute it every single time someone brings it up because it legitimizes it. Remember during the debate when Chafee tried to argue Hillary wasn't honest enough to be President? Do you remember the attack, or do you remember her refusal to go there and her answer of "No"?

Mentioning Manafort is simply because that's the most current Trump campaign issue in the news. You bring it up to tie his campaign shift to it. You plant the idea that he had to fire people because a Russian operative was running his campaign.

A lot of you guys are arguing for her to just start throwing random shit out and see what sticks to him. That's the exact thing Trump has been trying, and it hasn't been working. It never does. You need message discipline, and you need to make sure your attacks actually land.

Trump's weakness is demographic and suitability to be Commander in Chief. Only one of those is hurt by attacking, but you have to be smart. You have to be very, very smart and careful. Because, if you hit him too hard (or not in a focused, specific and directed way), you've now tarnished yourself and made yourself look less Presidential.

Trump's negatives are out there. His favorability rating is not going to get better. His best chance at that was the convention and he managed to fuck that up. Hitting him there is useless. Instead, Hillary needs to stay on message, stay presidential, stay focused on the suitability question.

Trump's people desperately want her to get in the mud because it legitimizes their strategy. They want an overreaction because it makes their previous batshit statements "politics as usual." The last thing we need to do is play that game.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Was this posted?

Half of all voters say they definitely won't consider voting for Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, according to a new Morning Consult poll.

The poll also found that 45 percent of voters said they definitely wouldn't consider voting for Clinton.

About 35 percent of voters say they will definitely vote for Clinton, and another 16 percent say they will at least consider voting for the Democratic nominee.

For Trump, 29 percent of voters say they will definitely vote for the GOP nominee and 16 percent said they would consider voting for him.
Click to expand...

Another Morning Consult poll found that Clinton leads Trump by 3 points in the presidential race.

In a four-way matchup, Clinton is favored by 39 percent of voters and Trump is backed by 36 percent. Another 8 percent support Johnson and 4 percent support Stein.

Among independents, 23 percent said they supported Clinton and 30 percent said they backed Trump.

In a head-to-head matchup between both major party's nominees, Clinton holds a 6-point lead over her Republican rival, 44 percent to 38 percent.
Click to expand...

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/292157-poll-half-of-all-voters-wont-consider-voting-for-trump
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
adam387 said:
We were at Easton, yup.



Eh, no. That's really not the read I'd take on that. Daddy Mook knows what he's doing. They hit back against the health things early. At the same time, you don't refute it every single time someone brings it up because it legitimizes it. Remember during the debate when Chafee tried to argue Hillary wasn't honest enough to be President? Do you remember the attack, or do you remember her refusal to go there and her answer of "No"?

Mentioning Manafort is simply because that's the most current Trump campaign issue in the news. You bring it up to tie his campaign shift to it. You plant the idea that he had to fire people because a Russian operative was running his campaign.

A lot of you guys are arguing for her to just start throwing random shit out and see what sticks to him. That's the exact thing Trump has been trying, and it hasn't been working. It never does. You need message discipline, and you need to make sure your attacks actually land.

Trump's weakness is demographic and suitability to be Commander in Chief. Only one of those is hurt by attacking, but you have to be smart. You have to be very, very smart and careful. Because, if you hit him too hard (or not in a focused, specific and directed way), you've now tarnished yourself and made yourself look less Presidential.

Trump's negatives are out there. His favorability rating is not going to get better. His best chance at that was the convention and he managed to fuck that up. Hitting him there is useless. Instead, Hillary needs to stay on message, stay presidential, stay focused on the suitability question.

Trump's people desperately want her to get in the mud because it legitimizes their strategy. They want an overreaction because it makes their previous batshit statements "politics as usual." The last thing we need to do is play that game.
Click to expand...

Look, I know. I argued the same thing yesterday, she can't get distracted by Trump attacks like these. It's an important lesson she and other Dems learned from Obama over the course of two presidential campaigns. And she's doing as well as she can.

Again, they are doing great work where it counts: GOTV, ground game, campaigning in battleground states and getting good headlines, messaging, etc. But I also hope that, when they do attack, they can be a little better than what Mook just did in ABC. Stephanopoulos had a "wtf, really?" face when Mook began that line of attack and in an insecure way. Mook stood his ground and didn't let up the attack, which kind of saved face for him at the end, he didn't back down from the insinuation of "Trump is Kremlin puppet", so he didn't look completely ridiculous, but I hope the attacks come latter and better.

Doesn't do any good to get nervous about every single detail, that is true.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
The state organ of trumpism is outright attacking the mormon church

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...-for-muslim-immigration-block-trumps-victory/

It is an open secret in Washington, D.C. that the Mormon church supports open borders and lax enforcement of immigration laws. Many Mormon politicians have been supporting amnesty and open borders for decades. When I was in Congress I had a confrontation with former Utah Senator Robert Bennett over his sponsorship of an amendment to exempt religious institutions from a Sanctuary City bill establishing penalties for harboring illegal aliens. It turned out he did it at the request of his church leaders. Mormon church support for John McCain in his Arizona Republican primary race is also due in large part to his open borders record and his challenger’s strong criticism of McCain’s hypocrisy on border security.

So, no one should be surprised that Trump’s call to build a wall on the southwest border and his plan for putting the war on Islamist terrorism above open immigration has encountered resistance among some Mormon politicians. What is surprising is the dishonest way even some Republicans have framed that disagreement as opposition to infringement on religious liberty.
Click to expand...

and the comments... lord have mercy
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Joeytj said:
Look, I know. I argued the same thing yesterday, she can't get distracted by Trump attacks like these. It's an important lesson she and other Dems learned from Obama over the course of two presidential campaigns. And she's doing as well as she can.

Again, they are doing great work where it counts: GOTV, ground game, campaigning in battleground states and getting good headlines, messaging, etc. But I also hope that, when they do attack, they can be a little better than what Mook just did in ABC. Stephanopoulos had a "wtf, really?" face when Mook began that line of attack and in an insecure way. Mook stood his ground and didn't let up the attack, which kind of saved face for him at the end, he didn't back down from the insinuation of "Trump is Kremlin puppet", so he didn't look completely ridiculous, but I hope the attacks come latter and better.
Click to expand...

The problem with that whole line of attack is it requires you to connect like six dots. Plus, it was done by one campaign manager against another campaign manager. It's going to be less effective for that reason alone. The attacks that will come from the Clinton camp, I bet, will be based around his outsourcing, his refusal to release his taxes, etc. Those are easily digestible things for the public to grasp onto.

One thing I wanted to mention since I had time to look at that YouGov poll of Ohio.

The managed to fuck up the male/female split. In 2012, it was 52% women, 48% men. This sample is 51% men, 49% women. And she's still leading.

Trump's also getting 3% of the African American vote. He's doing well.
 
M

mo60

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Trump surrogates are now claiming that Hillary has CTE.

This is gonna get more amazing, but I'm not sure how.
Click to expand...

What those surrogates are doing is pathetic. Will the trump campaign(not just his surrogates) try to attack hilary for health problems which most likely don't exist eventually via ads and other methods.
 
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