Basileus777
Member
A Kasich vs Clinton map would probably look something like this:
Colorado would be the state to decide it.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!
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If you have Hulu their adaption of Steven King's Kennedy assassination book is pretty good. I'm also finally making my way through "The Man in the High Castle" and am enjoying it a bit. Not a whole lot, but it's far better put together storywise than I thought it would be.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Perhaps.
Except the person you responded to was saying democrats were lucky Kasich wasn't the nominee. That's the reference--not his lack of ability to get through the primary.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Well, I mean going off the reporting by female reporters he was incredibly hostile towards them. If he can't handle female reporters without flying off the handle how would he be expected to handle a debate against a female candidate with the pedigree of Clinton? He's always struck me as one of those guys who was good on paper, when you described him to someone, but once under the microscope he just fell apart.
nah
Nobody is attacking Kasich, and compared to Trump he looks way better. He's still a pretty regressive guy and that would come out more in a GE campaign
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Kasich has got to be the frontrunner for 2020 though, right? I feel like he's the only Republican that wasn't embarrassed or targeted and he's one of the few with some national recognition that didn't bend the knee to Trump. Cruz is dead in the water like Santorum or Huckabee imo and the big names this year (Jeb, Christie, and Rubio) were all embarrassed and I think are done. Ryan will get killed for his Trump stance and might lose his spot as Speaker and I think won't get it. Who else is left? Maybe Sandoval?
User 463088
Banned
The issue with this is that the people that Hillary is winning over are fine with dogwhistles and Romneyesque shit....as long as the person is qualified. In fact, I'm willing to argue that if Trump wasn't seen as dangerous, his racism wouldn't be as big of an issue.
Kasich couldn't make it out of the primary process, But, he's a really, really good bullshit artist. His "I want everyone to get along" thing is something he can wear fairly well,and it comes off moderately well.
He also is smart enough, unlike most of the GOP, to know when to stop. He knows that you can strategically retreat on an issue, only to get your way down the road.
Basileus777
Member
He has no chance in 2020. He doesn't appeal to Republican primary voters and couldn't even get any support when the only alternatives were Trump and Cruz. Republicans won't lack for new candidates that will be fresher than Kasich, that's the benefit of controlling most of the country's government.
Do you think this Republican primary electorate would take Kasich
balladofwindfishes
Member
Kasich came in fourth place in a three man race
2020 will be another unelectable conservative wacko.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I don't see who else can do it and eventually they have to get tired of losing like Democrats did in 88, right?
Unless this election is a landslide and the base goes through some introspection the front runner with be someone in the Trump mold because that's what the base wants.
Basileus777
Member
It wouldn't be that lopsided, but if Kasich were on the ticket Hillary wouldn't even be spending in Ohio.
balladofwindfishes
Member
In 2020 the GOP will control both the House and Senate. That's not really losing.
nature boy
Member
Kasich is from PA, he would likely win it.
Yea, but 2020 is when redistricting happens. If the Dems win big that year, which they very well could if Hillary does a good job, that'd set the table for the next 20 years.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Dems had the House and Senate in 1988 too.
The party that holds the White House is always seen as being the one on top.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Republicans and Democrats nowadays have no friends outside of their political party and have no idea who appeals to people outside their party.
Republicans consistently voted Trump as the most electable candidate and Kasich as the least electable candidate in the polls of "who would have the best shot of winning in November?"
balladofwindfishes
Member
2020 should be better than 2016 for Hillary. She gets much more popular when she's actually in office, and I think she'll do a good job.
Maybe even better than Obama. Obama wasted a couple of years trying to play nice with the GOP. Hillary won't even bother with that.
Against a generic D or better Kasich would have struggled, but I think practically any Republican other than Trump would have beaten Hillary this time, even Cruz or Bush (but maybe not Carson).
A story that will probably be buried after the election by obituaries on Trump is the hubris of Hillary running in 2016 when she knew her email problems, foundation, and paid speeches would be big problems. She jeopardized the Democratic party's chances and we just got lucky with Trump.
A story that will probably be buried after the election by obituaries on Trump is the hubris of Hillary running in 2016 when she knew her email problems, foundation, and paid speeches would be big problems. She jeopardized the Democratic party's chances and we just got lucky with Trump.
Basileus777
Member
Obama had 2 years to work with a Congress that could get stuff done, Hillary likely won't even have that. She'll be running for reelection after 4 more years of gridlock and 12 years of Democratic rule. And she won't be facing Trump. It'll be a hell of a lot tougher than this year.
Yea, no. Literally no one cares about the speeches (outside of Bernie-stans that haven't given up the fight) and no one thinks the Foundation is corrupt outside the conservative bubble.
Bush could have given her a hard time, but everyone else in that primary was 1000% clown shoes.
I expect the 2020 R candidate clowns to be either worse than Trump
yes, we know, Hillary sucks, she'll be an illegitimate president with no mandate, no matter what her margin, no political skills, even the tonsil stone eating ultra-conservative would've beaten her, she's terrible
she's so bad she stepped out of her ground-floor political office window and fell up through the glass ceiling
Yup. I don't see Hillary gaining any legislative victories whatsoever to run on. The only hope is 1) the economy improves even further 2) she completely obliterates ISIS 3) Republicans run another Trump-like candidate.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
This isn't really true. She gets more popular when she's not attacked. Which isn't going to stop.
I'm worried about 2020 and democratic apathy in going for a 4th term in a year where shit matters all up and down the ballot.
Basileus777
Member
I'm sure they'll be a clown, but they won't be worse than Trump who is the worst candidate in over 50 years. And honestly he might be worse than Goldwater.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
(everyone said what I was going to say, Adam)
The shorter version is that Kasich only looks like a threat in a world after which Trump is the nominee, not before. After Jeb, after Rubio, after Christie, after Ted Cruz and after Rick Freakin Perry.
So he's a decent person, trained in old-school mainstream political savvy, with governor experience from a big battleground state. Yet all of these were true before Trump.
The only reason we're talking about him now is because he held onto the primary to see if he could win Ohio and because Trump is legit fucking scary. In all other contexts there's a reason this guy couldn't beat out two schmucks from Florida and two creepers from Texas. It's because he's a forgettable, boring mess with a terrible record.
The shorter version is that Kasich only looks like a threat in a world after which Trump is the nominee, not before. After Jeb, after Rubio, after Christie, after Ted Cruz and after Rick Freakin Perry.
So he's a decent person, trained in old-school mainstream political savvy, with governor experience from a big battleground state. Yet all of these were true before Trump.
The only reason we're talking about him now is because he held onto the primary to see if he could win Ohio and because Trump is legit fucking scary. In all other contexts there's a reason this guy couldn't beat out two schmucks from Florida and two creepers from Texas. It's because he's a forgettable, boring mess with a terrible record.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Jesus fucking shit, the amount of mass killings over domestic violence in the last few weeks is fucking sickening.
It's just horrible to open up massshootingtracker.org and see "oh, that's another family executed by a domestic abuser"
It's just horrible to open up massshootingtracker.org and see "oh, that's another family executed by a domestic abuser"
Those are all trumped-up (pun not intended) nothingburgers, not real scandals. Sure, the media would have probably inflated them further were it not for the Trump circus and we don't know how that would've played out. But to suggest she shoudn't even have considered a run because of them is a bit much.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Right now his high approval rating isn't because of the stuff he did in the first half of his first term. People's political memories aren't that long.
She'll be fine. She's an accomplished leader and popular when actually doing the job. And the GOP has shown no signs of actually getting any better.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
And that he could be Hillary on the heels of Obama's mind-boggling approval ratings right now is bullshit. Kasich ain't shit!
nature boy
Member
Trump +9 in Alaska from a June poll that only now is public.
Johnson 16%!
Johnson 16%!
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Didn't her approval ratings go up after the Benghazi hearings though?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Goldwater did stuff and was a senator. Trump is the worst ever. By far.
Like a tiny bit but still not to her time when the GOP literally didn't give a crap about her.
like maybe to the 40s. Remember the media is going to be cheering on all the investigations too. Good ratings!
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Yeah, if I had to guess, I would say Hillary is more likely than not a one-term president. I just hope the Republicans sort their mess out beforehand. (although that might be the only way they win IMO)
Basileus777
Member
This is revisionist history. Kasich was talked about as dangerous well before Trump was the nominee.
So was Scott Walker
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Walker was always a lightweight who kept getting lucky.
Roland_Gunner
Member
And Chris Christie. And Marco Rubio. None of whom could even get second place in the primary.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Well, "scared" is perhaps a strong word but here's a post of mine from a year ago saying he'd be a formidable opponent. I also thought he'd have trouble making it through the primary, so there's that.
My views are informed by having lived in Ohio. His image of a reasonable moderate is not based in reality (or, to the extent that it is, what people are really seeing is more pragmatism than moderation), but perceptions are powerful. I did not find his actions as governor that much different from Scott Walker's when I lived in Wisconsin, Kasich was much more popular across the political spectrum. People who absolutely can't stand Walker would turn around and praise Kasich for being so much better. On the other hand I was never that concerned about Jeb! or Rubio (though I didn't predict that Jeb would flame out so fast in the primary).
I can't say exactly what would happen if Kasich were the nominee, but I do think it's fair to say that any poll you were to take right now would be overstating his support.
And Kasich was the Jon Huntsman of 2016.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
He couldn't beat out BEN CARSON!!!!
C'mon people, this entire exercise is nonsense. He's Scott Walker without the Harley.
C'mon people, this entire exercise is nonsense. He's Scott Walker without the Harley.
I still can't believe people were afraid of that fool.
Basileus777
Member
So? Who has been claiming that he could actually get through a primary, the discussion has mostly been focused on how he can't.
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