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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!
- Thread starter B-Dubs
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Beer Monkey
Member
To the point that the soldiers that actually turn the keys to launch the missiles have no way of knowing what is actually going on up on the surface.
Is this another drill, and will the missiles actually not fire?
Is this a "legitimate" launch, aka the missiles are being fired in retaliation for a nuclear strike?
Did the president lose his fucking mind and just decide to launch them?
Has the "fail safe" system been hacked by terrorists who want to initiate an illegitimate launch?
They do not know any of these things when they turn those keys.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
As Chichikov said, there will be a lot of replies and I won't be able to respond to each but make sure not to cherry pick. Since most of the replies are about the nuke point I'll just reply to that...
To be fearful of a President Trump using nuclear weapons haphazardly would be implying the guy has no concern for innocent human life whatsoever...that he would knowingly kill hundreds of thousands (millions?) of innocent human beings. That would be psychotic. It would start WW3 and pretty much end civilization. Do you REALLY think this guy is that psychotic...is that completely deranged?? It is fear-mongering to suggest that, no matter how much you dislike DJT. It's a fantastic sound bite for Hillary's stump but that's about it.
Ignoring your campaign advisors about toning down the controversial remarks and Twitter tweets does not compare to ignoring your cabinet about the use of nuclear weapons. Is that not a reasonable conclusion?
To be fearful of a President Trump using nuclear weapons haphazardly would be implying the guy has no concern for innocent human life whatsoever...that he would knowingly kill hundreds of thousands (millions?) of innocent human beings. That would be psychotic. It would start WW3 and pretty much end civilization. Do you REALLY think this guy is that psychotic...is that completely deranged?? It is fear-mongering to suggest that, no matter how much you dislike DJT. It's a fantastic sound bite for Hillary's stump but that's about it.
Ignoring your campaign advisors about toning down the controversial remarks and Twitter tweets does not compare to ignoring your cabinet about the use of nuclear weapons. Is that not a reasonable conclusion?
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
But seriously, if your conscience says to vote for Trump, get off the internet.
This doesn't make anything he said any less racist or better. He has nothing to back up his claim that many, most, a lot, or whatever stupid-ass method of couching he wants to use and the fact that the only two policy proposals he has involve banning others from entering the country should tell you that he hasn't changed, as you claimed in the post you linked to. He's a racist, xenophobic, fool with no redeeming qualities and doesn't even have consistent views on anything beyond the wall or Muslim ban.
Politifact and Wapo were absolutely brutal to her after her interview with Chris Wallace. Her "pants(uit?) on fire' ratings have been pretty minimal (currently at 5 compared with 37 for Trump), but if she keeps repeating this shit it's going to add up.
Thank god for Trump, though (and this is the only time I would ever utter such words).
Has he given ANY indication that he is not psychotic, deranged, and will snap at the slightest provocation?
He torpedoed his campaign because a Muslim father called him out live. Somehow he won't do anything once an ACTUAL threat comes around? What do you think happens if there's a terrorist attack on US soil during his presidency and he has the slightest indication of where it came from? Do you genuinely see the candidate currently campaigning having a measured response to that?
I'm sorry, you are completely abandoning any shred of logic by assuming he will listen to his cabinet. Regarding not just nuclear weapons, but anything else whatsoever.
Zero. Every single indication so far shows he would govern exactly as he has campaigned.
User 463088
Banned
Do I think he is that psychotic? Yes. Yes I do.
This man has no qualms about separating 11 million people from their families. So, ya, nameless, faceless people somewhere? Ya, I think he'd nuke the hell out of him if it made sense in his small little mind.
Beer Monkey
Member
Never before has there been a candidate in my five decades on this planet that has made me seriously consider the possibility.
eBay Huckster
Member
And that's a total that almost includes Goldwater!
I'll echo the thoughts about Rubio being weaker than polling currently suggests. Murphy is basically a nobody statewide and is still in a primary against a sitting Senator.once he's the Dem nominee, polling will tighten and, with Rubio's comments about not wanting to be a Senator, I guarantee that it'll tighten further once that starts getting hammered home. On top of that, there is almost no way Rubio outruns a 6 point loss regardless of crossover.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
No I agree, it's fair to rationally respond once. It's not really something preventable, but I'm specifically discussing multiple multiple people repeating the same obvious thing like the President has unilateral nuclear powers.
You're talking with someone who admittedly supports Trump and has internet access on August 4, 2016. After all we've seen and all we know, why bother piling on except for masturbatory satisfaction? I'll convince him with this one!
Yes, I honestly do believe that. He is completely unfit and unqualified to be President. Can you explain why his "policies" are so important that'd you'd even be willing to take that chance?
Great!
So why are you supporting a white nationalist? No cherry picking!
I believe in the power of shame to change minds.
BotoxAgent
Member
Trump is literally the closest to being the worst possible candidate for President I have seen in my life.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Look our opinion on this doesn't matter as much as the people who would actually be in the decision loop. And there was an article linked/referenced just a couple days ago from someone who *was* in the nuclear weapons launch system who was expressing this very fear/concern about Donald Trump launching a strike.
If the people who would have to execute the order are concerned, I think that says a lot about how objectively reasonable the fear really is. The fact that we even have to consider or second-guess that kind of problem is itself an indictment of the worst kind.
I'll also add that after talking to my cousins I'm starting to become a little bit more sympathetic towards Pigeon's point of view (in the short term anyway). If even they (as Tea Party Rs) can't find anything defensible about the people who are supporting Trump, well, I dunno how else to interpret that besides a very bad look. Of course they are in the same intellectual/educational elitism class of myself just on the opposite side of the political spectrum so I'm still reluctant to go too far down that path.
If the people who would have to execute the order are concerned, I think that says a lot about how objectively reasonable the fear really is. The fact that we even have to consider or second-guess that kind of problem is itself an indictment of the worst kind.
I'll also add that after talking to my cousins I'm starting to become a little bit more sympathetic towards Pigeon's point of view (in the short term anyway). If even they (as Tea Party Rs) can't find anything defensible about the people who are supporting Trump, well, I dunno how else to interpret that besides a very bad look. Of course they are in the same intellectual/educational elitism class of myself just on the opposite side of the political spectrum so I'm still reluctant to go too far down that path.
Some of the bullshit Hillary has had to endure from reporters over the years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSYZ12LGVxw
Some of the questions are legitimate. Some though made me want to punch the reporter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSYZ12LGVxw
Some of the questions are legitimate. Some though made me want to punch the reporter.
Yes, I do believe he is that deranged, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe there would be any major consequences.
As President, I see him as one big terrorist attack in the US away from wiping out most of Syria and Iraq with nuclear strikes.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Then again maybe I should pile on.
The question isn't whether he's actually mentally unstable re: NATO alliances and nuclear weapons, the question and fact is that Trump suggests these things are up for debate while simultaneously accidentally revealing he doesn't know why they're not (see: not knowing Russia is already in Ukraine and why we don't use nuclear weapons.
Barrack Lesnor: Do you know why we don't use nuclear weapons?
Edit: more nuanced -- do you know the difference between 'disciplined' and 'haphazard' (your phrasing) use of nuclear weapons? And why there isn't room between those? And why even talking about it as a candidate for President of the United States is an unpardonable sin? "We take nothing off the table" is the only thing you're ever allowed to say about the use of nuclear force, ever. Every rookie pol on the planet knows this.
nature boy
Member
Oh boy
Aaron Strife
Banned
Yup.
I think the only extent to which he might be ok is that he doesn't seem to give a shit about certain social issues (marriage and abortion), even if he's staked out generic Republican stances on those. If he was as religiously dogmatic as Cruz... Sweet Martha.
Fragamemnon
Member
Jumping in late on this, but the nuance here (that horrifies political and defense observers) is that Trump might see them as actual weapons to be used. You don't use nuclear weapons. The whole point of having having a nuclear force is so that no one else thinks of using them too.
The minute you say that "hey we might use nuclear weapons. They aren't off the table!" is the moment where other countries get a green light to saying the same thing too. Then you're in a situation where diplomatic flashpoints start with a nuclear escalation level FAR beyond the "use of nuclear weapons is unthinkable" threshold.
Sixty years of unprecedented world peace despite being a half hour away from total annihilation point to the power of "don't rock the boat" when it comes to nuclear weapons policy and strategy.
I agree that the nuclear codes thing is actually fearmongering-very effective fearmongering I might add-but the real worrisome point is that he doesn't understand why we have the weapons in the first place.
BlastProcessing
Member
They don't compare, but not in the direction you are insinuating. If Trump won't listen to advisers in a low stress, low importance situation like a campaign, why would he be able to handle a higher stress, higher leverage situation better? Trump has consistently proven that he is a candidate that fails at the easy stuff. Why would he do better at the hard stuff?
This also assumes that he won't surround himself with the same Russia loving sycophants that he currently hangs with.
Also, like, he has said a couple of times that we should nuke people more.
Like so much of Barack Lesnar's argument, the core idea is basically "despite the things Trump has said, he probably will do a totally different thing because I wished for it in my heart."
Obama wrote and article for Glamour about raising his daughters and his feminism
I love it
http://www.glamour.com/story/glamou...obama-says-this-is-what-a-feminist-looks-like
I love it
http://www.glamour.com/story/glamou...obama-says-this-is-what-a-feminist-looks-like
Yes many people do.
That is why his comments on NATO and urge more Russian hacking is deeply troubling. NATO is the best deterrence against a nuclear Russia. If that alliance is shaky, then Putin will test that alliance to see the response. The Baltics are very nervous about Putin.
I am 0% shocked at Morning Joe's claims that he repeatedly asked "why can't we use nukes" in a 1 hour meeting. He does not understand that the _threat_ of nukes is more valuable than the actual use. He just understands that nukes are the most bad-ass weapon and he should be able to use them.
In terms of his character, he has decades of ignoring contracts, debts, etc. This whole campaign he has shown no respect for institutions, protocols, or norms. There is no guarantee he will respect any checks and balances of the Constitution if he gets that power.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I would be so mad.
I think they'd get a SCOTUS nominee through eventually, but Garland would be a best case scenario.
I like how many people, across the spectrum, including military personnel who have directly had access to firing nuclear weapons from their silos, and prominent arms control advocates, have had serious reservations or are all out balking at giving Trump the nuclear authenticators....
And this is spun as being an argument "of the left". Such a person has already demonstrated they will not change their mind.
And this is spun as being an argument "of the left". Such a person has already demonstrated they will not change their mind.
Atomic Playboy
Member
I absolutely think he's that psychotic, yes. This is a man who responded to an article claiming he had small hands by sending the writer pictures of his hands for decades. He responds to any perceived slight with a lawsuit. He would absolutely be the leader who would bully other countries with the threat of nuclear attack, and even if you think he wouldn't follow through, outright threatening everyone on Earth is a really piss-poor strategy for avoiding war. But I firmly believe he is psychotic enough to follow through with those threats. He has a pathological need to portray himself as "not weak" and if that means bombing the hell out of some foreign nation, he would do it without any hesitation. There is not a single thing in his entire history that suggests he has the temperament to be trusted with the power to destroy the world.
BlastProcessing
Member
@ksausville
Maybe we should take Clint Eastwood seriously. After all, that empty chair he talked to last time is on the Supreme Court now.
Maybe we should take Clint Eastwood seriously. After all, that empty chair he talked to last time is on the Supreme Court now.
Seriously they suck. Debbie. Crist. Grayson. And Fucking up 2010 which helped Rubio big. Get your shit together.
Fragamemnon
Member
Let's be real-understanding basic nuclear policy in a presidential campaign is the political equivalent of passing the FizzBuzz test in a programming interview.
If you can't explain the basics of deterrence, proliferation, and escalation theory for the ONE thing you can't fuck up while in office, here's a handshake and a water bottle with our logo, "we'll get back to you later" and see them to the door.
If you can't explain the basics of deterrence, proliferation, and escalation theory for the ONE thing you can't fuck up while in office, here's a handshake and a water bottle with our logo, "we'll get back to you later" and see them to the door.
Fenderputty
Banned
Dick Morr is ______ .
Fragamemnon
Member
The FL Democratic party has been a mess for decades. Don't go blaming the recent dud of candidates-the rot runs deeper. There hasn't been coherent leadership in the state since like the Lawton Chiles era.
I don't know. I don't pretend to understand Trump's mental state. I don't pretend to know what he'll do at any given time. Someone completely unknowable, whose actions are so erratic they seem like they're selected by a random number generator? That is not someone I want to be in charge of the most powerful nation on earth. Up to and including because it would provide him with instant access to nuclear weapons.
"I don't know" is more than enough to disqualify him as someone I'd even contemplate electing president.
It's pretty clear at this point that anyone using that argument is either disingenuous or not very rational.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
So, as other people have pointed out, POTUS does have unilateral power to launch nukes. Best case scenario is that the military refuses to follow an order from the CiC. In other words, the best-case scenario is a Constitutional crisis.
I wish that Trump voters took their vote and who leads the country more seriously. I really wish they did. This isn't a video game. And shit, I don't even use nukes when playing Civ! I think Planet Busters are a weapon-non-grata in Alpha Centauri! But some people think there's a giant reset button on actual civilization, and it's scary.
gutter_trash
Banned
Yesterday I was checking to see deadlines for States to lock candidates on the ballot
Some like Texas has it as early as September 1st this year.
Some like Texas has it as early as September 1st this year.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I still think Murphy will pull out a win, although that's more of a gut feeling than anything.
NH and PA seem to be breaking our way, in any case.
It's already passed in Arizona, New Jersey, Michigan, Wyoming, Illinois and one other I believe.
Like we're brushing up against the point where a candidate could enter and be reasonably competitive. If we're not already there.
nature boy
Member
.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
@Barack Lesnar
Trump is mentally unsound, due to at the very least a narcissistic personality disorder that prevents him from behaving rationally. Think of somebody with crippling OCD. Similar thing. The person suffering from crippling OCD can't help themselves, whatever the compulsion might be. In Trump's case, his behavior is driven by his narcissism. He has no empathy for others, he needs constant approval and attention, and will lash out at anyone who he thinks is disrespecting him. It's the reason he's running for President.
Your anecdote about him relying on experts is an absurd take, as we know that he does not rely on anyone's advice or give two shits what anyone else says if he doesn't want to hear it. He doesn't want to learn. He's an idiot.
Trump is mentally unsound, due to at the very least a narcissistic personality disorder that prevents him from behaving rationally. Think of somebody with crippling OCD. Similar thing. The person suffering from crippling OCD can't help themselves, whatever the compulsion might be. In Trump's case, his behavior is driven by his narcissism. He has no empathy for others, he needs constant approval and attention, and will lash out at anyone who he thinks is disrespecting him. It's the reason he's running for President.
Your anecdote about him relying on experts is an absurd take, as we know that he does not rely on anyone's advice or give two shits what anyone else says if he doesn't want to hear it. He doesn't want to learn. He's an idiot.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Good news for John McCain.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
So basically she did what Reagan did in Afghanistan...
The Lamonster
Member
Barack Lesnar even said Trump was an idiot, like two pages ago. He doesn't seem to care though.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Agreed that Murphy can win. Accurately polling Hispanics isn't easy and we can pretty much bet the turnout will be rather high. How much can Rubio outpace Trump by? We'll see. I'd imagine democrats will be tying him to Trump, and perhaps see if they can force Rubio to withdraw his endorsement.
They better push hard on Rubio abandoning immigration reform.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
How do people feel about mail-in ballot only systems like in WA, OR, and CO? I recognize that there's some value in preserving voting as a communal activity, but I think all the ways you can interfere with the traditional voting methods are outweighed by the simplicity of the mail in ballot; there's no need to show up at a particular location at a specific time, no under-staffing or under-funding problems, no interference from weather or other circumstances, etc.
Fenderputty
Banned
Even though I think he's a loose canon and capable of launching nukes, I don't think he'll be provoked enough to do it. I'm much more worried about national issues. With a GOP controlled congress (I'm assuming a trump win would be good for down ticket support) he'll have the votes to fuck up the SCOTUS, fuck up the economy, make our taxes more regressive and would fuck up our social safety nets. I mean ... a trade war with China?
I'll also say again that if you want to deport 11 million people regardless of societal and economic impact you just want them gone and are probably a white nationalist yourself.
I'll also say again that if you want to deport 11 million people regardless of societal and economic impact you just want them gone and are probably a white nationalist yourself.
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