Fenderputty
Banned
I want to move to the OC in about 2-3 years. This news makes me happy.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT9| The Wrath of Khan!
- Thread starter B-Dubs
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I want to move to the OC in about 2-3 years. This news makes me happy.
all the democrats there are moving to Stein
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yea, when the DNC did [Enter thing that doesnt exist] and [one email about atheism that had two responses], that really tipped the scales.
Atomic Playboy
Member
Then why bother participating in a discussion forum about it at all? Is it just intellectual masturbation? Seems like a waste of time to dismiss contrary opinions with a blanket statement of "well, we weren't going to change anyone's mind anyway."
Beer Monkey
Member
Only the ones on Reddit.
whyamihere
Banned
Again -- we can get rid of Darrell Issa once and for all.
thezerofire
Banned
I hope you're starting a family or something like that, because OC as a place to do things...yikes
I spent my first 22 years there.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
I just hope somebody asks Hillary whether she'll declassify all of her emails if elected (the ones that still exist, at least), since she's so certain they contained nothing that should be classified.
User 463088
Banned
Which may very well be true. I'm not disputing that. I don't have those numbers, but it doesn't surprise me that it is true.
What I'm saying is we have to make our argument better than whatever bull shit Trump is spewing. Can we do that for everyone? No. We can't. But should we try without immediately throwing labels back at them (even if they rightfully deserve them?) I think we should.
This was the argument Hillary was making today. The type of rhetoric Trump is spewing is not okay. It's not who we are. It's now what we're about. It's never okay. However, the fundamental pain and uncertainty that is often the root cause IS something we need to address and understand.
If the only way to deal with this anger is to deport every Muslim, ever immigrant and every gay from the country? Then too bad. Your pain means nothing, and you are a terrible person. (Universal you, obviously, not directed to anyone). But, if you're scared because you're working two jobs and making less than you were at the coal mine, if you haven't got a raise in a decade, if you're afraid for your families economic security...then let us lay out a plan to help you that doesn't belittle or demean other people.
It's the crux of her campaign "Stronger together." And I think we're well served to take that approach when trying to win over persuadable people.
Now people who are in it for the racism, misogyny, Islamophobia and all the rest? No. We do not and should not entertain those people. They deserve derision and shame.
i don't dismiss contrary opinions on here, but i'm also not expecting to win people over. I prefer not to read the outright hostile post reactions, but i also don't get upset when people can't articulate support in any meaningful way and are then followed by a "its ok to say you support white nationalism"
balladofwindfishes
Member
You want the media to make up stuff?
Also this from OT:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor...ation-status?utm_term=.tlqXbOlOoG#.repBAgqg12
It's just ...
And the thing is all the Syrian mooooslims are actually not part of the "brown people" group.
Apart from the fact that many Syrians are blonde with blue eyes, they are even "legally white".
In 1915, Dow v. United States, ended with this verdict : the generally received opinion . . . that the inhabitants of a portion of Asia, including Syria, are to be classed as white persons".
But then again, would it make any difference if you told them ?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emaoconnor...ation-status?utm_term=.tlqXbOlOoG#.repBAgqg12
It's just ...
And the thing is all the Syrian mooooslims are actually not part of the "brown people" group.
Apart from the fact that many Syrians are blonde with blue eyes, they are even "legally white".
In 1915, Dow v. United States, ended with this verdict : the generally received opinion . . . that the inhabitants of a portion of Asia, including Syria, are to be classed as white persons".
But then again, would it make any difference if you told them ?
Box of Kittens
Banned
I don't think we should dismiss all contrary opinions or anything, but I don't think everyone is worth engaging either.
isn't that all of them? Thats what i was lead to believe
User 463088
Banned
This is true.
But my original post was in response to a question Hillary was asked during the "maybe it's a press conference maybe it isn't."
That's actually a valid tough question. I'd imagine her team has had time to check all the bits that were marked (c) so if she's correct about nothing in them really needing to be classified then de-classifying them might not be unreasonable. I'm not sure what the process involved would be, or if it's worth the time
I was going to make an exception for Abe, too.
+3 in the south? She must be doing well in FL, NC, VA and GA to offset AL, MS, SC, LA, AR, and TN (and KY and WV if they are included).
Fragamemnon
Member
those midwest numbers are more or less fatal for Trump if they stick in that range and are corraborated by more polls
Assuming his core white male w/ less education base is still extremely strong (and no reason not to think that), white educated males and women are fleeing the GOP nominee in unprecedented volumes.
If I saw that as a GOP strategist I wouldn't be thinking about how to fix Trump's campaign, I'd be thinking about how to quarantine and contain his campaign away from the rest of my candidates.
Slurpy2k20
Member
whyamihere
Banned
More. Some of these are so shocking.
Electric Eye
Banned
California is the lesson the GOP keeps ignoring they shat on everyone here with their failed economic policies, racist anti immigration laws etc. especially in the OC. No one has forgotten how they tried to use the police to intimidate and act as a gestapo stoping and asking anyone with brown skin for papers they have wanted to rid Santa Ana of its hispanic population for ages and now they are reaping what the sowed.
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm on my second home and first child. I'm also a beach lover and surf 2 times a month roughly. I would have loved to grown up in the OC.
Literally "This is fine."
campfireweekend
Member
It will never get old to me that 2 democrats are vying for the open senate seat in the GENERAL.
Fucking lol
There were only three emails marked (c). All the rest weren't marked.
Slurpy2k20
Member
This photo creeps me the fuck out each time.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I'm not at the Pigeon extreme but I do feel comfortable making the assumption that the large majority of people voting for Trump are not interested or willing to engage in the kind of debate or self-reflection that would lead to anything constructive. If that was true then I think they would have supported any other republican candidate or vote for Johnson.
You got about ~230m people of voting age, ~60% of them vote in presidential elections, let's say ~45% vote for Trump and ~70% are this unreasonable type of person. That's about ~40 million people or about ~13% of the total population. I'm not sure that I have a problem writing off that small of a cross-section of America.
Sure there's still that minority of Trump voters who maybe just want to burn everything down and they just see Trump as the vehicle to do it. Maybe they would be open to changing their mind, but the odds are that's not the type of person I'm talking to so unless they give me a reason to think that they are, I'm not going to bother.
And while I won't go as far as Pigeon does, I do think that the fact that the media and establishment Republicans have normalized or accepted a Trump nomination is deeply damaging to our politics. No one in any position of power or influence should have taken this lying down and everyone should have followed in Mitt Romney's footsteps and said this is unacceptable, this man is objectively horrible, etc, etc.
If Trump does not represent the type of candidate that we as a society can collectively condemn and repudiate, well, it's hard to imagine what 'rules' are left to play by in the first place. I can't really understand people who say that their line for moral judgement has not been crossed by Trump.
You got about ~230m people of voting age, ~60% of them vote in presidential elections, let's say ~45% vote for Trump and ~70% are this unreasonable type of person. That's about ~40 million people or about ~13% of the total population. I'm not sure that I have a problem writing off that small of a cross-section of America.
Sure there's still that minority of Trump voters who maybe just want to burn everything down and they just see Trump as the vehicle to do it. Maybe they would be open to changing their mind, but the odds are that's not the type of person I'm talking to so unless they give me a reason to think that they are, I'm not going to bother.
And while I won't go as far as Pigeon does, I do think that the fact that the media and establishment Republicans have normalized or accepted a Trump nomination is deeply damaging to our politics. No one in any position of power or influence should have taken this lying down and everyone should have followed in Mitt Romney's footsteps and said this is unacceptable, this man is objectively horrible, etc, etc.
If Trump does not represent the type of candidate that we as a society can collectively condemn and repudiate, well, it's hard to imagine what 'rules' are left to play by in the first place. I can't really understand people who say that their line for moral judgement has not been crossed by Trump.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Box of Kittens
Banned
I wouldn't really consider Abe a third party candidate. By 1860 the Republicans had established themselves as the main opposition to the Democrats in the wake of the collapse of the Whigs. They had finished a relatively strong second in the 1856 election and controlled the House (although they were just shy of a majority). Of course 1860 was an unusual election with the lines between major and third party candidates somewhat blurred by the fracturing of the Democrats.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
that urban/rural/suburban mix is exactly what is scary about polling
Box of Kittens
Banned
The income breakdown doesn't shock me since it's in line with Trump's support in the primary, but it certainly does contradict conventional wisdom.
Politico: July job surge could bring unpleasant fallout for Clinton
Leave it to Politico to try to spin good economic news into a bad thing for Hillary.
Leave it to Politico to try to spin good economic news into a bad thing for Hillary.
campfireweekend
Member
What are you talking about?
Why does it seem like you're only capable of concern trolling?
All of those breakdowns are extremely good news for clinton. Losing by such a small margin among suburban voters and dominating urban! That's most of the population locked up!
Is this right? I'm vaguely aware that there are studies about how if you bring people in and give them articles full of facts to try to change their beliefs about climate change or whatever that you can get a backfire effect. And I find it pretty plausible that most people will respond in the way you want in response to what they perceive as overwhelming social stigma against bad attitudes, though I don't know that they'll actually change their minds so much as they'll just keep quiet about it (which can be good because it prevents transmission).
But that doesn't seem to me to be very useful for figuring out how we ought to conduct ourselves in one-on-one or few-on-few conversations about controversial political topics.
Most of the mind-changing I've observed myself has seemed to be a result of people's relationships. It happens when people develop respect and understanding for people they don't agree with and come to see the other person's side of things. And this often involves reasonable discussion. I think the easy example of this is early on in the fight for gay marriage. There was this period of very rapid progress that was driven by the uncloseting of gay people and people who had been against gay rights finding themselves interacting with people they know to be gay as people. I tend to think that abortion politics is much more stagnant in large part because nobody knows-that-they-know women who have had abortions. Plausibly a message board community is an important opportunity for people to have real conversations with types of people that they otherwise wouldn't interact with (or know that they are interacting with). I suspect that being a welcoming community is important for keeping these people around long enough to possibly change minds this way.
Like I said, I can buy that large-scale shaming can be very effective. To use gay rights again - increasingly progress here is made just because nobody is willing to be the next Maggie Gallagher. It's hard to transmit this stuff to other people or to organize a movement because everyone will call you a bigot. Large companies will do things like boycott states that pass bad laws because everyone knows that being anti-gay is just not a good look. But as the gay rights example suggests, I'm not sure that this works very well when people don't perceive that the shaming is coming from just about everywhere. This would not have worked ten years ago. When an issue seems much closer to 50/50 I think this is more likely to just cause people to dig in. A problem with the way that the internet allows people to construct their own ideological bubbles is that many people may live in worlds where it never really seems to them like they're a small minority and shame becomes ineffective. The sort of parallel world that the far-right always lived in is now accessible to many more people - they're not likely to be shamed into better attitudes when the people they know in real life agree with them, all of the news and opinion they read reinforces their existing attitudes, those attitudes are reflected in their Facebook feeds, etc. The same phenomenon that leads to poll unskewing ("Nobody I know is voting for Obama") is going to get people to discount shaming on the internet as just extremist liberals doing their thing.
There's a reason that cults try to get people to cut off their existing relationships and actually sort of encourage broader society to view them with disdain. Once you're in the cult the biggest threat to your beliefs is people you have close relationships with trying to get you out, and society's disdain for your beliefs actually only serves to get you to rely on in-cult sources of authority for understanding everything going on in the world. Shaming may help prevent people from joining cults but it probably also is an obstacle to getting them out.
There is something going on. Sometimes the words are ok, but just look at the body language, there's something going on. And the words are not often ok, by the way. There's just a bad feeling, and a lot of bad feeling about them.
Sounds like great news for John McCain.
Zero chance of that happening. Especially with inflation below targets.
Fragamemnon
Member
The GDP numbers this year killed any movement on interest rates. The Fed won't make a move until they at least get above 2.0% again even if job growth is hot.
titiklabingapat
Member
If this is the year of the anti-establishment then Obama must be part of the anti-establishment since he seems to be popular these days.
I want to slap a baby seal every time a Trump surrogate tries to use the 'this year is an anti-establishment year' argument.
I want to slap a baby seal every time a Trump surrogate tries to use the 'this year is an anti-establishment year' argument.
But what about Kay Hagan?
User 463088
Banned
Like, this bizzaro wold some Trump supporters on Social Media find themselves in is just fascinating to me. Mainly, the idea that Trump is going to kick ass at the debates.
We have a lot of evidence and data to support thats...you know...not the case. Like, with his convention speech. It was received very, very poorly. And, his actual debate performances were insane.
We have a lot of evidence and data to support thats...you know...not the case. Like, with his convention speech. It was received very, very poorly. And, his actual debate performances were insane.
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