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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
VanMardigan said:
You guys are still in your bubble. Trump is doing exactly what he said he was going to do. If the election were today, he'd beat Hillary again.

Now, once his actions continue to inflict more pain on more people, including his base losing healthcare and seeing that the factories aren't opening back up and the economy isn't improving....... Then the needle starts to move and we can begin dreaming of a one term presidency.
Click to expand...

The only anxiety among those of us that supported Trump that I detect is that there's no movement yet on tax reform. If he can push that through, and rebrand obamacare, he will not lose support of his base. With the economy at 1.9%, he is well-positioned to see the economy rise. Tax cuts and tariffs can have that effect. Additionally, it isn't realistic to think he will support anything that will hurt the poor working class -- despite what other Republicans may want.

So basically you are counting on Trump fucking over his core supporters, and being unable to rebrand an unpopular law into a popular one.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
GuyKazama said:
The only anxiety among those of us that supported Trump that I detect is that there's no movement yet on tax reform. If he can push that through, and rebrand obamacare, he will not lose support of his base. With the economy at 1.9%, he is well-positioned to see the economy rise. Tax cuts and tariffs can have that effect. Additionally, it isn't realistic to think he will support anything that will hurt the poor working class -- despite what other Republicans may want.

So basically you are counting on Trump fucking over his core supporters, and being unable to rebrand an unpopular law into a popular one.
Click to expand...

I mean, I'm glad you admit that you're okay with banning Iraqis who helped us in the Iraq war and may be fighting ISIS right now.

What have you done for your country, btw?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Pretty convinced the people saying "Dems aren't saying anything" at this point only think they're not saying anything because they do not actually listen to them because they're in their own far-lefty/anarchist/etc echo chamber.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
GuyKazama said:
The only anxiety among those of us that supported Trump that I detect is that there's no movement yet on tax reform. If he can push that through, and rebrand obamacare, he will not lose support of his base. With the economy at 1.9%, he is well-positioned to see the economy rise. Tax cuts and tariffs can have that effect. Additionally, it isn't realistic to think he will support anything that will hurt the poor working class -- despite what other Republicans may want.

So basically you are counting on Trump fucking over his core supporters, and being unable to rebrand an unpopular law into a popular one.
Click to expand...
There are millions of voters who stayed home or voted for Trump reluctantly who are already being turned off.

Tariffs are a tax increase and and almost universally considered not to be stimulative.
 
B

BoosterDuck

Banned
JP_ said:
MPyj8Qa.jpg


Ted Cruz thinks defeating public schools is the civil rights issue of the 21st century.
Click to expand...

what a piece of shit, his banner has several latino children attending class yet he wants them kicked out because of his 'fuck you got mine' attitude
 
D

Dierce

Member
GuyKazama said:
The only anxiety among those of us that supported Trump that I detect is that there's no movement yet on tax reform. If he can push that through, and rebrand obamacare, he will not lose support of his base. With the economy at 1.9%, he is well-positioned to see the economy rise. Tax cuts and tariffs can have that effect. Additionally, it isn't realistic to think he will support anything that will hurt the poor working class -- despite what other Republicans may want.

So basically you are counting on Trump fucking over his core supporters, and being unable to rebrand an unpopular law into a popular one.
Click to expand...

I hope you teach yourself some basic macroeconomics dude. A few minutes worth of that would make you smarter than orange turd mother fucker and the average republican.

Tax cuts and tariffs do not stimulate the economy because the working class is the one who will be offsetting the tax cuts and tariffs.
 
R

royalan

Member
kirblar said:
Pretty convinced the people saying "Dems aren't saying anything" at this point only think they're not saying anything because they do not actually listen to them because they're in their own far-lefty/anarchist/etc echo chamber.
Click to expand...

Every Democrat of prominence should be doing what the mayor of Boston just did.
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
Dierce said:
I hope you teach yourself some basic macroeconomics dude. A few minutes worth of that would make you smarter than orange turd mother fucker and the average republican.

Tax cuts and tariffs do not stimulate the economy because the working class is the one who will be offsetting the tax cuts and tariffs.
Click to expand...

You are assuming that the money saved will not go back into the US economy, which is where the protectionist policies, regulation cuts, and corporate tax cuts come into play.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
GuyKazama said:
You are assuming that the money saved will not go back into the US economy, which is where the protectionist policies, regulation cuts, and corporate tax cuts come into play.
Click to expand...

What's your experience in the field of economics? I'm interested in hearing more about how tariffs increase economic activity.
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
Gruco said:
What's your experience in the field of economics? I'm interested in hearing more about how tariffs increase economic activity.
Click to expand...

BS in Finance, Minor in Econ. Tariffs redirect spending, making international markets less desirable. I'm not going to argue economics here, as I don't feel qualified. If I'm wrong, then Trump is screwed by his own policies, and it will work itself out.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
GuyKazama said:
BS in Finance, Minor in Econ. Tariffs redirect spending, making international markets less desirable. I'm not going to argue economics here, as I don't feel qualified. If I'm wrong, then Trump is screwed by his own policies, and it will work itself out.
Click to expand...
I'd encourage you to revisit the international chapters from your old texts.
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
Gruco said:
I'd encourage you to revisit the international chapters from your old texts.
Click to expand...

Hey, I could be completely wrong. My only point in posting is that everyone attacking Trump seems to be ignoring that he campaigned on these issues and was relentlessly attacked on them. If he and the Republicans fail to push his policies through, that is where my support will drop. If the policies fail to produce results, then yeah -- that is also a problem -- but that could take years to have a political effect.
 
D

Dierce

Member
GuyKazama said:
BS in Finance, Minor in Econ. Tariffs redirect spending, making international markets less desirable. I'm not going to argue economics here, as I don't feel qualified. If I'm wrong, then Trump is screwed by his own policies, and it will work itself out.
Click to expand...

So you are the kind of person that believes that tax cuts stimulate wealth and therefore increase revenue? Even though that has been proven false since the early 1900s.

Tariffs will stifle business investments unless you are betting on the rest of the world to face an economic recession. Either way you are creating a problem you can't dig out of.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
GuyKazama said:
Hey, I could be completely wrong. My only point in posting is that everyone attacking Trump seems to be ignoring that he campaigned on these issues and was relentlessly attacked on them. If he and the Republicans fail to push his policies through, that is where my support will drop. If the policies fail to produce results, then yeah -- that is also a problem -- but that could take years to have a political effect.
Click to expand...

To the contrary, many of the people attacking Trump seemed to be naive enough to have believed there was no difference between the parties or that Hillary was the real threat. Many others said we should take him "seriously and not literally" and that Muslim bans, walls, and conspiracy theories about rigged elections wouldn't be part of his presidency. To your point, governing as he campaigned is losing support as well as it is winning it, which is why Trump has historically low approvals, and by increasingly absurd margins.

Fortunately the Democrats don't have to rely on open Islamophobes to kick him out of office because there are more promising and responsive margins available.

I am curious why you are happy about kicking permanent residents (green card holders who have already been through heavy vetting) out of the country, along with starving Syrian children waiting to be adopted by supportive communities of all religions, along with Iraqi translators who risked their lives for us and are targets for terrorists. Why does that make you happy?
 
S

SomewhatGroovy

Banned
Guys, I get your upset, but if someone has a curious position, lay it out and challenge the holes in their logic. Come on, we can do this.

Random thought: and people were rooting for Mattis to be one of few sane picks in his cabinet.
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
Gruco said:
I am curious why you are happy about kicking permanent residents (green card holders who have already been through heavy vetting) out of the country, along with starving Syrian children waiting to be adopted by supportive communities of all religions, along with Iraqi translators who risked their lives for us and are targets for terrorists. Why does that make you happy?
Click to expand...

I'm not happy about stopping travel, but I'm also not happy with the current and past vetting processes. The government has provided no asssurances about who is travelling into the US. For the non-refugee situation, I see the upside of this as a way to pressure these countries into providing better background information on their travelers. With the exception of Iran, the ban will be lifted in the 90/120 day period and we will have better screening processes and information as a result. Regarding refugees, where there is no government or proper way to screen people, it makes sense to resettle them closer to their native country and stablize the area.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
UberTag said:
The resigning was protocol. That's what happens when any new administration takes over. It's a formality.
In every instance except this one, those resignations are disregarded until a proper assessment of one's capacity in the position is determined.

I mean, we had a diplomat on a plane to Rome for a conference have his plane turned around and re-routed back to the States so he could clear out his desk.
Does that sound like someone who wanted to leave the State Department to you?
Click to expand...

Ah, no, that's true. I totally forgot about that dude. :/

I feel the US is one-step away from a serious insurrection. This Muslim ban is crazy, and with the administration's attitude towards minorities, only the whitest of white neighbourhoods is not going to know someone who is affected by what's going down.

GuyKazama said:
I'm not happy about stopping travel, but I'm also not happy with the current and past vetting processes. The government has provided no asssurances about who is travelling into the US. For the non-refugee situation, I see the upside of this as a way to pressure these countries into providing better background information on their travelers. With the exception of Iran, the ban will be lifted in the 90/120 day period and we will have better screening processes and information as a result. Regarding refugees, where there is no government or proper way to screen people, it makes sense to resettle them closer to their native country and stablize the area.
Click to expand...

On the assumption you're without knowledge, and not concern-trolling:

Trump says Syrian refugees aren't vetted. We are. Here's what we went through.

Wrong: Donald Trump says there's 'no system to vet' refugees

This Is How the Syrian Refugee Screening Process Works

This was on a simple Google search.

Edit:
Kal Penn Verified account
‏@kalpenn

To the dude who said I don't belong in America, I started a fundraising page for Syrian Refugees in your name.
https://www.crowdrise.com/donating-...d-i-dont-belong-in-america/fundraiser/kalpenn ...
Click to expand...

Oh, and going back to the post above me, with regards to this sentence: "Regarding refugees, where there is no government or proper way to screen people, it makes sense to resettle them closer to their native country and stablize the area."

Refugees of the Syrian Civil War

The US is way down on the list. The top 5 countries are Turkey, Lebanon, Germany, Saudia Arabia, Jordan. Bolded countries are neighbours to Syria, or close by.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
GuyKazama said:
I'm not happy about stopping travel, but I'm also not happy with the current and past vetting processes. The government has provided no asssurances about who is travelling into the US. For the non-refugee situation, I see the upside of this as a way to pressure these countries into providing better background information on their travelers. With the exception of Iran, the ban will be lifted in the 90/120 day period and we will have better screening processes and information as a result. Regarding refugees, where there is no government or proper way to screen people, it makes sense to resettle them closer to their native country and stablize the area.
Click to expand...

The government has a two year vetting process for refugees. Why do you think this provides no additional information and assurances? What additional additional steps which can take place in 90 days do you recommend? What assurances will it provide that the 20 steps in the previous two years didn't?

Why don't you trust religious (Jewish and Christian as well as Islam) communities to take care of the starving children they want to sponsor?

Why don't you think the army did a good job identifying who was trustworthy in the 8 years they spent in Iraq?
 
GuyKazama

GuyKazama

Member
Pixieking said:
On the assumption you're without knowledge, and not concern-trolling:

Trump says Syrian refugees aren’t vetted. We are. Here’s what we went through.

Wrong: Donald Trump says there's 'no system to vet' refugees

This Is How the Syrian Refugee Screening Process Works

This was on a simple Google search.

Edit:
Click to expand...

This being poligaf, I'm not trying to argue the merits. There are other threads for that. It is the right of everyone to blast stories of those negatively affected, and the realities of the current screening process all across the media for the next 120+ days. In my opinion though, it will not have a net political effect because Trump campaigned on the issue. He campaigned on providing security to Americans, and even if there is no reality that this will have that effect, it does provide a psychological effect that he's doing stuff to keep Americans safe.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
GuyKazama said:
The only anxiety among those of us that supported Trump that I detect is that there's no movement yet on tax reform. If he can push that through, and rebrand obamacare, he will not lose support of his base. With the economy at 1.9%, he is well-positioned to see the economy rise. Tax cuts and tariffs can have that effect. Additionally, it isn't realistic to think he will support anything that will hurt the poor working class -- despite what other Republicans may want.

So basically you are counting on Trump fucking over his core supporters, and being unable to rebrand an unpopular law into a popular one.
Click to expand...

You seem to be under the impression that just because Trump says he'll do something for the working class, it will automatically be good for them. That's not true.

Also, his base is not enough to get him elected FWIW. He needs much more than that.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
GuyKazama said:
This being poligaf, I'm not trying to argue the merits. There are other threads for that. It is the right of everyone to blast stories of those negatively affected, and the realities of the current screening process all across the media for the next 120+ days. In my opinion though, it will not have a net political effect because Trump campaigned on the issue. He campaigned on providing security to Americans, and even if there is no reality that this will have that effect, it does provide a psychological effect that he's doing stuff to keep Americans safe.
Click to expand...

What have you sacrificed for this nation.

Wilsongt said:
How much of this shit is Bannon and how much is Trump?
Click to expand...

I mean the Muslim ban idea came seven months before Bannon was hired by Trump.

Rushing the order out so that it came out on Holocaust Memorial Day was 100% Bannon though.
 
D

Dierce

Member
Carpe Libertatem said:
You seem to be under the impression that just because Trump says he'll do something for the working class, it will automatically be good for them. That's not true.

Also, his base is not enough to get him elected FWIW. He needs much more than that.
Click to expand...
Well, he just admitted that he is content with the "psychological effect."

So keep on being ignorant, is pretty much what I make of what he is saying. Ignorance is strength after all...
 
R

RustyNails

Member
GuyKazama said:
This being poligaf, I'm not trying to argue the merits. There are other threads for that. It is the right of everyone to blast stories of those negatively affected, and the realities of the current screening process all across the media for the next 120+ days. In my opinion though, it will not have a net political effect because Trump campaigned on the issue. He campaigned on providing security to Americans, and even if there is no reality that this will have that effect, it does provide a psychological effect that he's doing stuff to keep Americans safe.
Click to expand...

What are you arguing exactly? Let Trump do whatever he wants? I dont understand. What's your problem with poligaf?
 
G

Gruco

Banned
GuyKazama said:
This being poligaf, I'm not trying to argue the merits. There are other threads for that. It is the right of everyone to blast stories of those negatively affected, and the realities of the current screening process all across the media for the next 120+ days. In my opinion though, it will not have a net political effect because Trump campaigned on the issue. He campaigned on providing security to Americans, and even if there is no reality that this will have that effect, it does provide a psychological effect that he's doing stuff to keep Americans safe.
Click to expand...

Poligaf often talks policy as well as politics, and people should and do get called on on making baseless claims, as you have done in this thread with both your "tariffs are expansionary" claim, as well as your "refugees don't get vetted" claim. I don't understand why you aren't willing to argue for your beliefs. I always thought Trump voters considered that a virtue.

If your goal is to just talk politics, feel welcome to address my counterpoints on your interpretation, instead of just ignoring them and repeating your argument.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
GuyKazama said:
This being poligaf, I'm not trying to argue the merits. There are other threads for that. It is the right of everyone to blast stories of those negatively affected, and the realities of the current screening process all across the media for the next 120+ days. In my opinion though, it will not have a net political effect because Trump campaigned on the issue. He campaigned on providing security to Americans, and even if there is no reality that this will have that effect, it does provide a psychological effect that he's doing stuff to keep Americans safe.
Click to expand...
"You may be right, but my feelings say you're wrong!"

Well that's the Trumpian way, isn't it?
 
R

royalan

Member
GuyKazama said:
This being poligaf, I'm not trying to argue the merits. There are other threads for that. It is the right of everyone to blast stories of those negatively affected, and the realities of the current screening process all across the media for the next 120+ days. In my opinion though, it will not have a net political effect because Trump campaigned on the issue. He campaigned on providing security to Americans, and even if there is no reality that this will have that effect, it does provide a psychological effect that he's doing stuff to keep Americans safe.
Click to expand...

So, even though it's demonstrably factual that what Trump is doing is not providing security to Americans, that in fact it's likely doing the opposite by providing ISIS with a ton of new recruitment material and hobbling our international intelligence gathering efforts...

...it feels like he is providing us security, so great?
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Carpe Libertatem said:
You seem to be under the impression that just because Trump says he'll do something for the working class, it will automatically be good for them. That's not true.

Also, his base is not enough to get him elected FWIW. He needs much more than that.
Click to expand...

Yup, indeed. If the Obama/Trump voters who voted for Trump because of legit economic anxiety don't feel any better, they won't vote for him again, and he'll lose. And, at this stage, it's an almost-certainty that they won't - Trump is pushing the country so hard, he's destabilising it. All it needs is for the markets to take-fright - possibly because of, say, all those dual-nationality skilled workers who are hit by this ban - and the economy plummets even sooner than everyone expected.

Wilsongt said:
How much of this shit is Bannon and how much is Trump?
Click to expand...

I'd expect if it were Bannon, there'd be something about Jews in there. I think this is all Trump, being the ignorant Average Joe he's always been, and thinking that this'll acually help.
 
D

Dierce

Member
royalan said:
So, even though it's demonstrably factual that what Trump is doing is not providing security to Americans, that in fact it's likely doing the opposite by providing ISIS with a ton of new recruitment material and hobbling our international intelligence gathering efforts...

...it feels like he is providing us security, so great?
Click to expand...

But it makes the racists feel safe and warm inside so it's all fine...
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Pixieking said:
Yup, indeed. If the Obama/Trump voters who voted for Trump because of legit economic anxiety don't feel any better, they won't vote for him again, and he'll lose. And, at this stage, it's an almost-certainty that they won't - Trump is pushing the country so hard, he's destabilising it. All it needs is for the markets to take-fright - possibly because of, say, all those dual-nationality skilled workers who are hit by this ban - and the economy plummets even sooner than everyone expected.



I'd expect if it were Bannon, there'd be something about Jews in there. I think this is all Trump, being the ignorant Average Joe he's always been, and thinking that this'll acually help.
Click to expand...

But there is something about Jews in there!

The order was signed on Holocaust Memorial Day.

That's as Antisemitic as the administration can be right now.
 
C

Chumley

Banned
GuyKazama said:
Trump campaigned on the issue. Relitigating the campaign will only lead to the same result.
Click to expand...

I have no good feelings towards people like you whatsoever, especially now, and I wish you'd stop wandering into threads to drop nothing but blind fucking skull crushing ignorance.

royalan said:
So, even though it's demonstrably factual that what Trump is doing is not providing security to Americans, that in fact it's likely doing the opposite by providing ISIS with a ton of new recruitment material and hobbling our international intelligence gathering efforts...

...it feels like he is providing us security, so great?
Click to expand...

This fucking piece of work dropped into a recent Russia thread, called everything about the dossier report lies and that nothing Trump did before being sworn in can get him impeached, and then dipped out.

I am so infuriated at the influx of Trumpers on GAF now. I'm worried it'll only get worse.
 
F

Fergie

Banned
Hasn't Trump fucked over many small businesses?

What makes anyone think he gives a shit apart from running on that message?

Everything the 'poor' hate about the elite, Trump has dabbled in.

You would think anything he says that pertains to the average american runs hollow.
 
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