Spoiled Milk
Banned
They gave us Barack Obama, the founder of ISIS.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love
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Cesare Borgia
Banned
She lost to the most unqualified, worst candidate in modern history. And it's been reported Bill and others warned her about ignoring blue states, among other things. I'm sure her bubble is upset, because they believe everything she believes, but everyone else? Nope.
Good riddance.
Veritigo_X
Member
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Hillary fucked up bigly and so did Obama. It's not a zero sum game.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Written by the co-founder of Politico. OK, bub.
Aren't you the person who keeps pretending he's a DNC insider?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Whenever I see an article like this and don't see Mook's name mentioned, I disregard it as having no credibility. That guy destroyed the campaign with his arrogance.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Every Democrat, right down to Dem voters messed up. We got too complacent during Obama's term.
The GOP appears to be falling into the same traps the Democrats did, although much more rapidly.
The GOP appears to be falling into the same traps the Democrats did, although much more rapidly.
It's not a zero sum game. You might want to believe it is, but it isn't. This election was completely stacked against her and the history books will reflect that.
I'm fucking sick of the "good riddance" sentiments. She is and was a good person and if you praise the women's march you're a fraud if you condemn her in the same breath. We're better than Trumpers who only know hatred.
He's the one who didn't want to invest in Arizona or Utah, which many Monday night quarterbacks here list as one of the reasons she lost.
BoboBrazil
Member
Republicans are so chicken shit. They are having a press conference right now and are trying to attach the Muslim ban to Obama.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Good, good. Was worried the talk of being more lockstep was empty words, glad to see them going with matching orders.
Well played, sir, well played.
Right, like others are saying, it's not zero-sum, and the voters have to take their share of the blame. Ignorance, arrogance, naivete, gullibility, false-equivalency - these are all traits that the Dem base and non-voters share.
We can say Hillary fucked-up and leave it there, but that lacks self-awareness, and we're better than that. Voters fucked-up too, and leaving them out of the equation means we'll have learned nothing.
BoboBrazil
Member
Lol one reporter was picked up on mic saying "waste of my fucking time" after it was over
Regarding what?
I didn't see this posted yet? Might've missed it, though.
From: The Daily 202: Trump sacking acting A.G. raises new questions about his respect for the rule of law
From: The Daily 202: Trump sacking acting A.G. raises new questions about his respect for the rule of law
Yup. His weak-willed response to Russia, Comey, etc. helped set up what happened. They're not wrong to be mad, even if they are at fault as well.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Yeah this is exactly what people think. It frustrates me to no end to listen to republicans at work who make literally a seventh of the money I make talk about how all democrats are lazy, unemployed, on welfare etc. People are so deluded.
BoboBrazil
Member
After the Republican leadership press conference was over on CNN.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Do people here think Chris Hayes is right about there being no political price for obstructionism?
Carpe Libertatem
Member
If the president was incredibly popular, I imagine there would be a significant political price.
Luckily, Trump is not popular.
benicillin
Banned
Considering obstructionism more or less got the GOP the house, the senate, the presidency and a stolen SCOTUS pick, I think it's the only way to play the game anymore.
Veritigo_X
Member
At this point there's a political price for not obstructing Trump and the GOP. Any Dem that sides with them is going to have a hard time.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I don't know how people can argue otherwise considering the end result of the last 8 years. People on the left right now are mad as hell and want to see their representatives fight as hard as they can. The only misstep republicans made with their stalwart approach was that they wrote themselves into a very predictable corner with the ACA.
Reaching across the isle doesn't work when your opponent doesn't deal in good faith. Obama had to learn that the hard way.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
No, but you're the person who's using a Tyler The Creator avatar...yikes. I used to work in DC and the WH though.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I don't like them boycotting votes. That's how the Bolsheviks took power in the USSR, the opposition just walked out of the first legislative body in post-revolution Russia.
Also there is a shit-ton of unusual helicopter traffic over my DC suburb right now. Might just be an altered flight path but I've never heard this many before.
I'm getting paranoid is all I'm saying.
Also there is a shit-ton of unusual helicopter traffic over my DC suburb right now. Might just be an altered flight path but I've never heard this many before.
I'm getting paranoid is all I'm saying.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Randolph Freelander
Member
No. The dynamics are different for Democrats.
I've said this before, but Democrats cannot play the same game as Republicans because Democrats do not have a Fox News covering up for them, and mainstream media will not be as wishy-washy with them as they are with Republicans.
When Republicans obstruct, "real Americans" don't know about it. If Democrats follow suit, they definitely will, and Democrats will pay a price.
....
That said, Trump is like a kender traveling through time, so who knows what rules apply.
I mean, for proof of this, look at how Merrick Garland's nomination was handled. 8 months? 9 months? of Republican obstructionism, and they controlled the message to the point where it wasn't a big campaign issue. Yet can you see Democrats being able to do that if a SCOTUS member dies in early 2020?
Dem messaging and narrative control is partly reliant on external media, but because of the Evil Villain status of the GOP (and now Trump), that external media is going to make sure that the Dems don't act in an amoral/immoral fashion, and so they're going to be held to a higher standard.
Edit:
https://twitter.com/PowerDNS_Bert/status/826440994094718976
benicillin
Banned
Sessions was never not going to get confirmed.
I'm kind of ashamed that I immediately got this reference.
Randolph Freelander
Member
And how ashamed I must be for making it!
balladofwindfishes
Member
We don't really know if this is true or not. The Democrats haven't ever been punished for obstructing. But they've never really been in a position to obstruct.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Well, the way I see it is basically like this (also something I've said before)
When Republicans obstruct:
Fox News => Democrats' fault.
MSM => "both sides"
When Democrats do the same thing:
Fox News => Democrats' fault.
MSM => We agree with Fox News.
The grading scale is not the same. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I just don't believe Democrats can get away with using the same tactics for 4 years unless Trump's approval rating completely craters to something south of W's second term.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Democrat voters are screaming for obstruction. They should have been doing this for years. Play politics.
These are my thoughts as well. If Dems could be counted on to show up to vote regularly, that calculus might change, but with all previous performance obstructionism is far more likely to hurt Dems than Republicans.
As you say, maybe Trump changes the game here. We're living in times where "past performance does not guarantee future returns" could be the disclaimer for any political prognostication.
What I do think is inarguable is that if Democrats play obstructionist and it works, I'm far more worried about the future of our country if the go-to play is doing nothing.
I mentioned this the other day, but Democratic voters don't tend to be as open to reflexively mindless obstruction like Republican voters are.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Again, I'll say it don't worry about Republican feelings. Lines are too entrenched and it does nothing to care about what they think. Worry about motivation of the base and getting non-voters to the booth.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Davos plagiarism scandal coming in. She lifted answers on her senate questionaire.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
All it takes is better messaging from the DNC and democratic elected officials.
It shows that she's in touch with the student populace!
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
what is with Trump and plagiarism?
Dude is lazy af
Atomic Playboy
Member
This has certainly been true in the past. But if people get angry enough, they start opening up to mindless obstructionism. Democrats right now feel how Fox News viewers have felt for the past 20 years. When you have someone stoking that blind, seething rage, you stop caring about rationality, which is why logical appeals about Trump's complete unpreparedness for the Presidency fell on deaf ears. Those people were filled with righteous anger. Now the anger is sliding over to people on the left. And when liberals get filled with that rage, they aren't going to give a damn whether or not Trump puts forward a reasonable policy; the rage will cloud their judgment as it has on the right for decades. Trump could come out with a proposal that ends all student debt and makes college free forever and a lot of liberals would oppose it just because "fuck Trump." Honestly, at this point, I think liberals are ready for their representatives to obstruct any GOP action on anything; the rage feels palpable.
Can they actually do that, though? Given that messaging was Hillary's main issue - the deleted emails should never have mattered, the private server should never have mattered, Benghazi shouldn't have spun out of control for her - and given the past few days of Democratic dithering, can they actually message decently if the US depended on it?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Watching CNN, she Melania'd an answer on her Senate questionnaire from......an Obama admin official.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
All I have is faith that this past election shook them up and that the new DNC leadership makes this a top priority.
And, to be fair, she had months and STILL she/the campaign couldn't come up with a concise, understandable explanation for the private server issue. It was one of her worst debate moments. All messaging.
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