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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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W

whyamihere

Banned
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.1b87ff08b918

Will we have any allies left by 2020

It should have been one of the most congenial calls for the new commander in chief — a conversation with the leader of Australia, one of America’s staunchest allies, at the end of a triumphant week.

Instead, President Trump blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over a refu­gee agreement and boasted about the magnitude of his electoral college win, according to senior U.S. officials briefed on the Saturday exchange. Then, 25 minutes into what was expected to be an hour-long call, Trump abruptly ended it.

At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that, “This was the worst call by far.”

Trump’s behavior suggests that he is capable of subjecting world leaders, including close allies, to a version of the vitriol he frequently employs against political adversaries and news organizations in speeches and on Twitter.

“This is the worst deal ever,” Trump fumed as Turnbull attempted to confirm that the United States would honor its pledge to take in 1,250 refugees from an Australian detention center. Trump, who one day earlier had signed an executive order temporarily barring the admissions of refugees, complained that he was “going to get killed” politically and accused Australia of seeking to export the “next Boston bombers.”

U.S. officials said that Trump has behaved similarly in conversations with leaders of other countries, including Mexico. But his treatment of Turnbull was particularly striking because of the tight bond between the United States and Australia — countries that share intelligence, support one another diplomatically and have fought together in wars including in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The characterizations provide insight into Trump’s temperament and approach to the diplomatic requirements of his job as the nation’s chief executive, a role in which he continues to employ both the uncompromising negotiating tactics he honed as a real estate developer and the bombastic style he exhibited as a reality television personality.

The depictions of Trump’s calls are also at odds with sanitized White House accounts. The official read-out of his conversation with Turnbull, for example, said that the two had “emphasized the enduring strength and closeness of the U.S.-Australia relationship that is critical for peace, stability, and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region and globally.”
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“I don’t want these people,” Trump said. He repeatedly misstated the number of refugees called for in the agreement as 2,000 rather than 1,250, and told Turnbull that it was “my intention” to honor the agreement, a phrase designed to leave the U.S. president wiggle room to back out of the deal in the future, according to a senior U.S. official.

Turnbull told Trump that to honor the agreement, the United States would not have to accept all of the refugees but only to allow them each through the normal vetting procedures. At that, Trump vowed to subject each refu­gee to “extreme vetting,” the senior U.S. official said.

Trump was also skeptical because he did not see a specific advantage the United States would gain by honoring the deal, officials said.

Trump’s position appears to reflect the transactional view he takes of relationships, even when it comes to diplomatic ties with long-standing allies. Australia has sent troops to fight alongside U.S. forces for decades and maintains close cooperation with Washington on trade and economic issues.

Australia is seen as such a trusted ally that it is one of only four countries that the United States includes in the so-called “Five Eyes” arrangement for cooperation on espionage matters. Members share extensively what their intelligence services gather, and generally refrain from spying on one another.

There also is a significant amount of tourism between the two countries.

Trump made the call to Turnbull about 5 p.m. Saturday from his desk in the Oval Office, where he was joined by chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon, national security adviser Michael Flynn and White House press secretary Sean Spicer.

At one point, Turnbull suggested that the two leaders move on from their impasse over refugees to discuss the conflict in Syria and other pressing foreign issues. But Trump demurred and ended the call, making it far shorter than his conversations with Shinzo Abe of Japan, Angela Merkel of Germany, François Hollande of France or Putin.

The Australian Embassy in Washington did not respond to requests for comment.
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I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
O'Malley would have won by 8 points and we would be talking about great U.S. health care and immigration laws now :mad:

I'm sorry for not Stanning for you, Martin :(
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Xi Jinping's window to become dictator of China is wide fucking open right now. This dude needs to invade Taiwan and tell Trump to suck his dick and he will be so loved that he will be chairman for life.

Where's the initiative from Xi? Very low-energy!
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
kirblar said:
Even if they have another woman run?
Click to expand...

I get that Sexism played a role in the antiHillary sentiment, but the only scenario I can see where the GOP could possibly make people hate the next Dem nominee as much as Hillary is if it's Elizabeth Warren (because the GOP has already been building up a negative narrative around her for years).

Anyone else, including women like Harris and Cortez-Masto, is not going to be an easy target for the GOP.

whyamihere said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.1b87ff08b918

Will TRUMP have any allies left by 2020
Click to expand...

FTFY.

Trump is making more and more enemies. And every enemy he makes makes it all the easier to unify our opposition to him.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
kirblar said:
Even if they have another woman run?
Click to expand...
Hillary has a reputation for being more hawkish than the average Democrat. Even discounting the Iraq vote, she was consistently one of the more hawkish members of Obama's cabinet.

I don't think Gillibrand or CCM or Harris would have that issue.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Seems like Trump's policy is "undermine the economies of other countries, any country, except Russia".
 
K

kirblar

Member
TestOfTide said:
I get that Sexism played a role in the antiHillary sentiment, but the only scenario I can see where the GOP could possibly make people hate the next Dem nominee as much as Hillary is if it's Elizabeth Warren (because the GOP has already been building up a negative narrative around her for years).

Anyone else, including women like Harris and Cortez-Masto, is not going to be an easy target for the GOP.
Click to expand...
The issue is that the "CORRUPT" tag is real easy to put on a woman because that view of women as an alien "corrupting" force is what many men are indoctrinated with from birth. The same shit happened w/ Gamergate. Wasn't an accident. (They will claim it's about "Ethics in journalism"/"Clinton foundation"/etc- it's not.)
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Or hell, get Kissinger some Bane-roids and get him to do it.
Click to expand...

Was that a Batman Beyond reference?

kirblar said:
The issue is that the "CORRUPT" tag is real easy to put on a woman because that view of women as an alien "corrupting" force is what many men are indoctrinated with from birth. The same shit happened w/ Gamergate. Wasn't an accident.
Click to expand...

Except gamer-gate only caught on with the Alt-Right.

Yes, the Alt-Right can easily be convinced to hate any woman, but that shit don't work on everyone.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
These phone call news stories scream "fake news plants" by the administration so they can claim how terrible the media is.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
TestOfTide said:
Was that a Batman Beyond reference?



Except gamer-gate only caught on with the Alt-Right.

Yes, the Alt-Right can easily be convinced to hate any woman, but that shit don't work on everyone.
Click to expand...

I mean, the Alt-Right is really easy to convince to hate any woman, but lower-key sexism is pervasive as hell.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
I mean, the Alt-Right is really easy to convince to hate any woman, but lower-key sexism is pervasive as hell.
Click to expand...

I get that, but gamer gate definitely doesn't prove that non-alt-right people are quick to think that women are "corrupt".

Like, Hillary had been negatively painted as corrupt for DECADES, with the most intense attacks in the last 4 years.

Meanwhile Gilibrand is very well liked across the spectrum.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Plinko said:
These phone call news stories scream "fake news plants" by the administration so they can claim how terrible the media is.
Click to expand...

Tbh, I feel like that might have run its course already. Everyone who's going to get on board with "mainstream media is fake news" is on board, and everybody else keeps cracking jokes about alternative facts.

Damn but that line seems to be doing some damage.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
whyamihere said:
It's all over the Australian media as well. There's another source with Mexico, too.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I have a feeling that pushing away our allies is actually going to irritate congressional republicans more than anything else he could do.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
I guarantee for all of Elizabeth Warren's possible faults as a 2020 candidate no one will tag her corrupt like Hillary Clinton. And there's plenty of other women who could run where that label wouldn't stick. If you're a woman fighting for the people, then you'll have less to worry about.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
TheLaughingStock said:
I guarantee for all of Elizabeth Warren's possible faults as a 2020 candidate no one will tag her corrupt like Hillary Clinton. And there's plenty of other women who could run where that label wouldn't stick. If you're a woman fighting for the people, then you'll have less to worry about.
Click to expand...

She is possibly the only candidate less relatable than Hillary was. Plus, as sad as it is, Trump has brought back rampant and blatant sexism into the forefront. I just don't think it's a good idea to run a woman candidate this time around. It only serves to motivate his base to vote even more.

I love Warren, but I think she'd be better as a VP to somebody like Biden.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
TheLaughingStock said:
I guarantee for all of Elizabeth Warren's possible faults as a 2020 candidate no one will tag her corrupt like Hillary Clinton. And there's plenty of other women who could run where that label wouldn't stick. If you're a woman fighting for the people, then you'll have less to worry about.
Click to expand...

It's not about that. It's about the fact that the closest person to becoming the GOP's next "Hillary Clinton" is Elizabeth Warren.

Warren is loved by progressives, liked by liberals, and HATED by pretty much everyone else.
 
K

kirblar

Member
TheLaughingStock said:
I guarantee for all of Elizabeth Warren's possible faults as a 2020 candidate no one will tag her corrupt like Hillary Clinton. And there's plenty of other women who could run where that label wouldn't stick. If you're a woman fighting for the people, then you'll have less to worry about.
Click to expand...
She won't run because she's smart enough to know not to.

She and Bernie voting against that health bill at the end of Obama's term is a strong signal neither's running in 2020.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Unfortunately I think 2020 is a time for the Dems to run the most universally likeable and relatable person they can. In the USA that likely means a white male.

It sucks, but getting rid of Trump by any means is simply more important than trying to send a message.
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
Emerson said:
Unfortunately I think 2020 is a time for the Dems to run the most universally likeable and relatable person they can. In the USA that likely means a white male.

It sucks, but getting rid of Trump by any means is simply more important than trying to send a message.
Click to expand...
I wonder which white dude will be able to captivate black voters in the South.
 
S

StormBrute

Member
Right now my big hope for 2020 is that Bernie and Warren both stay as far away from the primaries as possible. For all the talk of "anointing" Hillary this time, I just know those same people would immediately turn around and say anybody endorsed by Bernie or Warren should immediately be the nominee.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Emerson said:
Unfortunately I think 2020 is a time for the Dems to run the most universally likeable and relatable person they can. In the USA that likely means a white male.

It sucks, but getting rid of Trump by any means is simply more important than trying to send a message.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. We just need a nominee that energizes the Obama Coalition to vote in big numbers (which didn't happen last year).

Old White Experienced Male is what you fill the VP slot with to reassure moderates and old-school types into voting for a ticket with a New Blood Democrat at the top.
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
People have odd memories they will lump Warren in with Clinton. Associate them together. You need a fresh face who can get everyone moving.
 
C

chadskin

Member
The president's announcement reached about 33 million viewers through a combination of eight different broadcast and cable channels, according to Nielsen.
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The first prime time address of Trump's presidency did not measure up to President Obama's first prime time event, however. Almost 50 million viewers -- 49.4 million to be exact -- tuned in when Obama held a press conference the night of February 4, 2009.
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http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/01/media/supreme-court-donald-trump-ratings/index.html

Sad!
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Plinko said:
Hmm. I have a feeling that pushing away our allies is actually going to irritate congressional republicans more than anything else he could do.
Click to expand...

You would think so right? I mean what is it going to take for them?

i would have to suspect internally. They are fucking fuming though.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Sherrod Brown lives in a white-ish state but a large portion of his constituents are black and he has to rely on their turnout to win. Maybe black people in Ohio are different than those in the south, but he has the best shot of any northern white dude who might run.

That isn't to say he has it locked up, but he probably could at least keep the margins better than Bernie did if he was against a candidate who was strong there. Depends on how he plays his campaign I guess.

I don't think we need to run a white guy, even though that might help. If Duckworth can win midwesterners like Obama did I think she could be a strong candidate, though I'm unfamiliar with her otherwise so she might be a stinker on the national level. Klobuchar is probably a little too conservative to win the primary but she'd probably be strong in a general election. There's also Harris and CCM both showing interest, of course, which is "bank on AZ/FL/NC" type of run, which I'm skeptical of but that's probably their most electable strategy. Or maybe they'd actually connect really well with voters in Iowa and Minnesota, I don't really know. Where's Aaron to back up how great Brown is.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
I think Warren wanted/wants to be VP.

I think she'd be up for it to be Pres but she'd prefer the Uncle Joe role. Don't think she runs. But may look for the nod or go all ted cruz and earn street cred with the base
 
K

kirblar

Member
smokeymicpot said:
People have odd memories they will lump Warren in with Clinton. Associate them together. You need a fresh face who can get everyone moving.
Click to expand...
Huh? They have similar weaknesses is all. This isn't something that's getting lumped together after the fact- I like both but wish Clinton had Warren's wisdom to sit out.
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Boke1879 said:
You would think so right? I mean what is it going to take for them?

i would have to suspect internally. They are fucking fuming though.
Click to expand...

Being internally mad doesn't help if they're still playing the wait and see game. I'm convinced that by the time Republicans realize that something needs to be done it'll be too late.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Plinko said:
She is possibly the only candidate less relatable than Hillary was. Plus, as sad as it is, Trump has brought back rampant and blatant sexism into the forefront. I just don't think it's a good idea to run a woman candidate this time around. It only serves to motivate his base to vote even more.

I love Warren, but I think she'd be better as a VP to somebody like Biden.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that Democrats could run another woman and the line of attack won't be that the aforementioned is a corporate shill. I think Dems should run a woman or a minority again. It makes a lot of political sense.
 
K

kirblar

Member
TheLaughingStock said:
All I'm saying is that Democrats could run another woman and the line of attack won't be that the aforementioned is a corporate shill. I think Dems should run a woman or a minority again. It makes a lot of political sense.
Click to expand...
The top 3 names at this point are all women. (Harris, C-M, Gillibrand)
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
kirblar said:
Huh? They have similar weaknesses is all. This isn't something that's getting lumped together after the fact- I like both but wish Clinton had Warren's wisdom to sit out.
Click to expand...

Lets say Trump runs again all he will have to do is remember Warren saying nasty things about me along side Clinton. Will go after Warren being elite or what ever and people will buy that shit.
 
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