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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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P

Poodlestrike

Banned
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
benjipwns said:
The Swiss referenda on this was enlightening to me.

It got destroyed. 77%-23% against. Barely half what I expected.

A negative income tax might be more workable somehow. Congress worked on various forms of it during the Nixon years before Watergate, that eventually became the Kemp-Roth plan.
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I agree. A negative income tax seems way easier to sell, and it's fundamentally the same thing.

Universal Basic Income suffers from the same problem single payer does here. Even if people are individually getting way more money back from the program than they're putting in through taxes, they only see the tax part and go crazy. Negative income tax requires a lot smaller tax hike.

It also helps that conservative hero Hayek endorsed a negative income tax, as a better form of welfare than what we usually do.

I don't understand why UBI is the thing that's getting all the momentum.
 
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nitronite

Member
If you're the media how do you even report on whatever it was that just happened?

'President Trump visited the CIA headquarters and expressed his support for the agency and its cause'. That seems to sound like any other president, but in actuality what just occurred was anything but normal.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
Taking the oil is a war crime
 
S

Sianos

Member
KingK said:
To add to that, we need to have a serious national conversation on automation. The effects it's already had on killing jobs (the fact that many of those jobs outsourced years ago no longer exist) and the exponential increase it may have on the job market in the near future and what that means for our social contract. Obama touched on this in his final speech, and honestly seemed a single sentence away from endorsing a universal basic income at one point.

There needs to be a serious acknowledgment of the negative effects globalization and technological advancement has had for some people (while highlighting the absurdity of a societal structure that allows for technological progress to be a negative development for some people). And a serious plan for adjusting its course towards being a force for global peace and more equal, widespread benefit, as opposed to a vehicle to be hijacked by elites for private, personal wealth accumulation. Rather than portraying globalization/technology as inherently good or bad, portray it as the powerful tool that it is, lacking any inherent morality. Then make the case for how that tool can be used and shaped to everyone's benefit, and back it up/follow through with appropriate policy.
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I really like this way of framing the issue and think it would be quite the effective rhetorical strategy.
 
Z

Ziltoidia 9

Member
The state of ISIS is going to be the "surplus" of the obama/trump transition. Bush had a surplus going into office and 8 years later, there was a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit.

I hope not, but I have fear 4 or 8 years down the road of this.
 
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Wilsongt

Member
Warms my heart to see so many people today using their right to protest, and it seems they are doing it peacefully. I've seen very little salt.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
FyreWulff said:
the weird thing is there's gonna be FBI and CIA peeps that have to pretend to be Trump stans for security reasons lol

they probably hate their job
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Reportedly some are considering quitting and going into the private sector. They don't want to get blamed for his fuckups.
 
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Wilsongt

Member
Never mind. Just read my local news' facebook page calling these people UnAmerica and such.

This county as a whole is going to be fucked for a long while.
 
P

Phantast2k

Member
QyLvZk8.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AjjVMAdWm4
 
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nitronite

Member
Are they really going to be talking about the crowd size? Just ignore it, don't make it out to be a bigger issue than it already is, do a good job and if you get reelected you might get a bigger crowd.

Unless the sinister idea is to make his supporters doubt EVERYTHING the media says.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Good Job Bob said:
Starting to get the ball rolling on the paid family leave plan he campaigned on next week could be an option if his administration was at all interested in being conciliatory.
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This is never ever going to happen. He just froze all new "regulations" and the GOP is not going to play ball on a "burdensome job killer" in the midst of repealing the the PPACA
 
B

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
nitronite said:
Are they really going to be talking about the crowd size? Just ignore it, don't make it out to be a bigger issue than it already is, do a good job and if you get reelected you might get a bigger crowd.

Unless the sinister idea is to make his supporters doubt EVERYTHING the media says.
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Trump lashes out against ANY perceived slight. It's not in his nature to simply ignore things.
 
D

Dubbedinenglish

Banned
nitronite said:
Are they really going to be talking about the crowd size? Just ignore it, don't make it out to be a bigger issue than it already is, do a good job and if you get reelected you might get a bigger crowd.

Unless the sinister idea is to make his supporters doubt EVERYTHING the media says.
Click to expand...

This is a man who is still hurt by one comedian making fun of his hands in the 90s.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Drakeon said:
Trump is nothing if not petty. Of all the things you can predict, he's always been petty.

You better believe he gives a shit, I'm just surprised they've kept him off twitter so long. But it's coming, the 3 am tweet storm about this women's march is definitely going to happen.
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This is true and I am wrong.
 
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Tall4Life

Member
Michael Moore said on CNN that the Democrats need to take this movement as their own Tea Party and push a more progressive platform and candidates in future elections... I think he's right.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Tall4Life said:
Michael Moore said on CNN that the Democrats need to take this movement as their own Tea Party and push a more progressive platform and candidates in future elections... I think he's right.
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The Tea Party also blew numerous winnable elections by nominating complete lunatics. Best to avoid that part of it.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Tall4Life said:
Michael Moore said on CNN that the Democrats need to take this movement as their own Tea Party and push a more progressive platform and candidates in future elections... I think he's right.
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He's not. This is always the answer from these types regardless of outcome.
 
H

hydragonwarrior

Member
Ziltoidia 9 said:
The state of ISIS is going to be the "surplus" of the obama/trump transition. Bush had a surplus going into office and 8 years later, there was a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit.

I hope not, but I have fear 4 or 8 years down the road of this.
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According to the Simpsons (with whom I partially blame for Trump getting elected too), Lisa inherited quite the deficit from President Trump.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
nitronite said:
Are they really going to be talking about the crowd size? Just ignore it, don't make it out to be a bigger issue than it already is, do a good job and if you get reelected you might get a bigger crowd.

Unless the sinister idea is to make his supporters doubt EVERYTHING the media says.
Click to expand...

All those sorts of things are probably just Trump trying to protect his ego, not 4-D chess.

But regardless of the intent, I think these dumb fights have really helped him out. It's as much of a waste of time focusing on it for his opponents as it is for Trump, but his opponents need that extra time to break down Trump's simplistic and destructive policies, while Trump doesn't need that much time to espouse them.
 
R

Roland_Gunner

Member
Tall4Life said:
Michael Moore said on CNN that the Democrats need to take this movement as their own Tea Party and push a more progressive platform and candidates in future elections... I think he's right.
Click to expand...

He's not right because there are way more conservatives than liberals in the US. Democrats have to win the majority of moderates or they'll lose every national election.

ibro5fmjveor830zkk_hiq.png
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Tall4Life said:
Michael Moore said on CNN that the Democrats need to take this movement as their own Tea Party and push a more progressive platform and candidates in future elections... I think he's right.
Click to expand...
I agree, there needs to be a nationally grouping that can get Dems excited again.

Roland_Gunner said:
He's not right because there are way more conservatives than liberals in the US. Democrats have to win the majority of moderates or they'll lose every national election.

ibro5fmjveor830zkk_hiq.png
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I'm not even sure how someone can be a moderate anymore unless they are arguing fiscal policy, in which case they are libertarians, not moderates.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
WaffleTaco said:
I agree, there needs to be a nationally grouping that can get Dems excited again.



I'm not even sure how someone can be a moderate anymore unless they are arguing fiscal policy, in which case they are libertarians, not moderates.
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Keep in mind this is how people describe themselves.

A lot of people are more liberal than they'd ever admit if you simply went issue-by-issue, but we all know it doesn't always shake out that way. See: people who support the individual provisions of ACA but hate the whole thing.

I will agree with Moore to the extent that a movement to energize progressives is essential for the next midterm election, as these are base elections that people in the middle usually stay out of (because they don't understand or don't care about what's at stake)! And that usually benefits the out party because it's their base that's more riled up.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Phantast2k said:
QyLvZk8.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AjjVMAdWm4
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Are we really going to have a press statement just to basically say "nah uh my crowds were HUGE!"? This country is fucked :/

Roland_Gunner said:
He's not right because there are way more conservatives than liberals in the US. Democrats have to win the majority of moderates or they'll lose every national election.

ibro5fmjveor830zkk_hiq.png
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting this chart but if you ask people about a lot of individual points or aspects of the Democratic platform, they are pretty popular. Saying "single payer healthcare" won't go far but its clear that more and more people want some government role in healthcare. Also ACA example as mentioned above.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Roland_Gunner said:
He's not right because there are way more conservatives than liberals in the US. Democrats have to win the majority of moderates or they'll lose every national election.

ibro5fmjveor830zkk_hiq.png
Click to expand...

If Democrats weren't shit at messaging they could work that moderate number properly and make many of these moderates realize they are much closer to liberal democratic views than modern GOP policy views. Of course, this may become an easier messaging problem as the GOP steamrolls everything this coming term.

Crocodile said:
Are we really going to have a press statement just to basically say "nah uh my crowds were HUGE!"? This country is fucked :/
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I say let this administration do this bullshit. The only people that are buying it at this point are the base given his approval ratings already. This will only bury him further and make it harder for him to make an effective re-election message.

In any event, I hope the turnout at these events today makes the Democrats realize that they have a base that they too can harness with rage. No more of this "go high" bullshit. People are fed up with the Democrats acquiescing only to be trodden upon.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
Roland_Gunner said:
He's not right because there are way more conservatives than liberals in the US. Democrats have to win the majority of moderates or they'll lose every national election.

ibro5fmjveor830zkk_hiq.png
Click to expand...

Progressivism isn't really the exact same as the left or the far left... There are a growing number of progressives in my generation, the youngest right now that can vote, and that needs to be capitalized on.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
WaffleTaco said:
I'm not even sure how someone can be a moderate anymore unless they are arguing fiscal policy, in which case they are libertarians, not moderates.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That poll could just as easily been used against the tea party, because moderates + liberals destroy conservatives. It's hard to imagine how democrats can run more moderate than they have been.

If we're going to continue the failed median voter strategy and putting everything in politics on a straight 2D line, what issue is left for democrats to move right on to gain popularity? Seriously, I want to hear it.

Hellwarden said:
Sometimes, once in a blue moon, CNN is alright.
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Is he criticizing Trump, or CNN?

Trump has also said and done plenty of other things that are important to the nation. CNN doesn't have to waste time on what he said about crowd sizes.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
The Tea Party also blew numerous winnable elections by nominating complete lunatics. Best to avoid that part of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think people misinterpret the 2010 elections as being a result of the Tea Party. The reality is that they could have been much worse if it were not for the Tea Party.

Democrats should be careful in looking towards that movement as any sort of model.
 
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