• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

Status
Not open for further replies.

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Gotta give GreenPeace credit for this one:

AOPFZvK.jpg
 
None of his constituents live in areas with infrastructures that have a high volume of use on a near constant basis and are crumbling.

The thing is they're requirements to be on here was to have plans and know funding. Shovel ready stuff.

The issue is the Red States and rural PA aren't doing that. Blue areas are
 

Sianos

Member
I know it's bad form to pull a "but where are the ____ people when ____ is happening?!"...

But it's pretty disheartening to see the people who are so up in arms about "self-censorship" with regards to the free market - which is to say the desire to make more money through reaching a wider audience - influencing the removal of panty shots from video games notably silent on our government actually censoring scientific study.
 
OMG this tweet is so stupid

https://twitter.com/sonicdork/status/824038243935158276
@sonicdork

Our Democrats are not fighting for us...
C2-SYsYXcAAL1yF.jpg

Lets not have a UN ambassador who's literally not done anything too bad

I know it's bad form to pull a "but where are the ____ people when ____ is happening?!"...

But it's pretty disheartening to see the people who are so up in arms about "self-censorship" with regards to the free market - which is to say the desire to make more money through reaching a wider audience - influencing the removal of panty shots from video games notably silent on our government actually censoring scientific study.

I too read sam biddle's tweets
 

Wilsongt

Member
The thing is they're requirements to be on here was to have plans and know funding. Shovel ready stuff.

The issue is the Red States and rural PA aren't doing that. Blue areas are

Well, he's giving red states jobs and blue states infrastructure.

You can't ignore half of the country...
Unless your democrats.
 
Haley is vanilla when compared to the rest of the Cabinet legion of doom. She's still wholly unqualified but whatever. At least she's not Bolton.

Is Gillary one of the nays.
 
At some point, you shouldn't block everything.

Like, after the Tea Party came in, they went and blocked Obama trying cutting taxes for workers at small businesses.

... I mean, that's just blocking for its own and stupidity's sake.

I know it's bad form to pull a "but where are the ____ people when ____ is happening?!"...

But it's pretty disheartening to see the people who are so up in arms about "self-censorship" with regards to the free market - which is to say the desire to make more money through reaching a wider audience - influencing the removal of panty shots from video games notably silent on our government actually censoring scientific study.

Total list of people who make "removing panty shots makes us like North Korea!" arguments and actually buy in those arguments:
 
Gillibrand voted yes on Haley.

The streak ends! Seems like an odd political move from her, could have campaigned with "I voted no on literally every Trump appointment" and gotten a lot of support from that.

Adam Serwer is being annoying on Twitter and seems to think that the Dems are disrespecting their base by Rubio and McCain and Graham caving on Tillerson. Which is... interesting.
 
Wanting every Dem to automatically vote against every cabinet position is beyond ridiculous. Haley isn't great, but she's about as good as you are going to get from a Republican president
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
They're not going to stop them from getting confirmed, but every Dem should absolutely vote against Sessions, Carson, Devos, and the douches running for EPA chief and Treasury secretary.
 
They're not going to stop them from getting confirmed, but every Dem should absolutely vote against Sessions, Carson, Devos, and the douches running for EPA chief and Treasury secretary.

I'd be fine with red state Dems voting for them if they feel like that would boost them for their reelection.

I'm not sure people really care, though. Like, they're going to get approved by the Senate. It'd be a waste of money to run ads like "you voted against Trump's nomination who got in anyway!"
 

Morts

Member
As far as executive orders and what seems like an overwhelming flood of updates on what could be radical changes, did things move this fast eight years ago? Or does it just seem faster now because I'm against all of it and each one seems devastating?
 
Who were the 4 who voted against Nikki Haley?

EDIT: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-NM), Sen. Tom Udall (D-NM), and Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE)

lol Coons wtf.

Also what did Haley do to piss off New Mexico?
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
As far as executive orders and what seems like an overwhelming flood of updates on what could be radical changes, did things move this fast eight years ago? Or does it just seem faster now because I'm against all of it and each one seems devastating?

Sorta, but it was shit like banning torture, Ledbetter, you know things that won't fuck up the planet or screw anyone over.

Guys we have to vote for Haley or we get peeps like Bolton, Rudy or God knows who else.

Sessions, price and tillerson need to be fought against no matter what.
 
Trump's Supreme Court list is pretty scary. All around 49-53 years old, so they'll be around for 30+ years.

I guess that was to expected, but I was hoping for someone a bit older.
 
Sorta, but it was shit like banning torture, Ledbetter, you know things that won't fuck up the planet or screw anyone over.

Guys we have to vote for Haley or we get peeps like Bolton, Rudy or God knows who else.

Sessions, price and tillerson need to be fought against no matter what.
Not that I think Haley should be fought against or anything but I think there's a fair argument that the Bolton/Giuliani types were privately discussed and rejected because they wouldn't be confirmed, so they "moderated" to Tillerson.

Of course, that assumes Republicans had a spine at any point and that seems dubious.
 

Gotchaye

Member
Well they are benefiting from it in the short-term.

It kind of depends how you mean this, right? Sure, you can argue that it helped get people elected in 2010 relative to a more normal opposition strategy. Maybe it hurt in some individual races because they nominated crazy people, but probably the scorched-earth strategy it was part of helped to make the Democrats look bad overall.

But that's good for a relatively small number of politicians and I guess donors. Lots of the people who were originally pro- Tea Party would not have wanted to end up where they've ended up, if you'd asked them at the beginning. I mean, Trump would have been universally horrifying to them. This is true for the politicians and the base. Go talk to John Boehner. As for the base, like, lots of them wanted (and want) health care reform. They generally want higher taxes on the rich, I think. They might always have had some terrible and uniformed ideas about economics, but the key word there is "uninformed" - it's reasonable to think that them getting what they thought they wanted is in fact bad for them. You could say something similar about climate change; the Republican Party has gotten worse on science since the rise of the Tea Party. In general, although the trend here predates the Tea Party, conservatism is in a state of total intellectual collapse. There is not really such a thing anymore as a mainstream non-hack conservative intellectual. If you disagree with the party line you get purged. The think tanks are tightly controlled by donors who want advocacy rather than ideas. Literally the closest thing they've got are people the New York Times hires to write vaguely conservative op-eds, mostly not about policy, and other conservatives don't like those guys much.

That's got to be the worry about a liberal Tea Party. You want the enthusiasm. You want the unity. But you want to retain the ability to tell good ideas from bad ones. You need to still be able to have arguments. You need to have respect for expertise even when you'd like it if the experts were wrong. You want to not elect Donald Trump.
 
Wouldn't remaining a governor be better for Haley's career than being an ambassador?

Had Trump lost, Haley likely would have been a big deal in 2020 for President. But being out of the spotlight for 4 years, and not even being able to run until 2024 is going to hurt her. She probably should have remained governor for as long as possible, just to remain relevant.
 

Grexeno

Member
Wouldn't remaining a governor be better for Haley's career than being an ambassador?

Had Trump lost, Haley likely would have been a big deal in 2020 for President. But being out of the spotlight for 4 years, and not even being able to run until 2024 is going to hurt her. She probably should have remained governor for as long as possible, just to remain relevant.
She probably knew that being a non-white woman smothered any national ambitions she might have in the Republican party in the crib.
 
Awww

https://apnews.com/61415760238042f2ad7bc38acc2f468c

After relishing in Friday's inaugural festivities, the new president grew increasingly upset the next day by what he felt was "biased" media coverage of women's marches across the globe protesting his election, according to a person familiar with his thinking. Trump was particularly enraged with CNN, which he thought was "gloating" by continually running photos of the women's march alongside the smaller crowds that attended his inauguration the day before, according to this person, one of several White House aides and associates who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about private conversations.

Trump has had a tumultuous relationship with the press, frequently calling the media dishonest and insulting individual reporters by name at his rallies and on Twitter. Still, two people close to Trump said he expected his coverage to turn more favorable once he took office. Instead, he's told people he believes it's gotten worse.

The bad press over the weekend has not allowed Trump to "enjoy" the White House as he feels he deserves, according to one person who has spoken with him.

The result has been a full display of Trump's propensity for exaggeration and more. During an appearance at the CIA Saturday, he wrongly said the inaugural crowds gathered on the National Mall stretched to the Washington Monument, despite clear photo evidence to the contrary. And during a reception with lawmakers from both parties Monday night, he repeated his false assertion that millions of illegal immigrants provided Hillary Clinton's margin in the popular vote.

Poor baby!
 
Did he not pay attention to the media for the last, what, ten presidents that he's lived through?

The media is never really kind at all to the president once they're in office.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Not that I think Haley should be fought against or anything but I think there's a fair argument that the Bolton/Giuliani types were privately discussed and rejected because they wouldn't be confirmed, so they "moderated" to Tillerson.

Of course, that assumes Republicans had a spine at any point and that seems dubious.

Actually I think names like Giuliani and Bolton were floated on purpose to make tillerson seem better. He was the guy they wanted in the first place imo.
 
The NYT has had lie prominently in headlines recently.
Wouldn't remaining a governor be better for Haley's career than being an ambassador?

Had Trump lost, Haley likely would have been a big deal in 2020 for President. But being out of the spotlight for 4 years, and not even being able to run until 2024 is going to hurt her. She probably should have remained governor for as long as possible, just to remain relevant.
Needs foreign policy experience for her eventual Presidential run.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
So it looks like Trump's plan is that whenever the government has an opportunity to allow or block a project, they'll let it pass on the supposed conditions that most of the investment be spent in the US, such as buying US steel for the construction of the pipeline, that kind of stuff. Seems to be the direction he's taking.

Bae

Is there some semantic reason that they cannot use the word "lie"? Falsehood sounds like there is wiggle room for them to get out of it. "Lie" is so powerful and everyone knows exactly what the word carries with it. Maybe year 2?

A lie would be intentional, and they can't say for sure.
 

Sianos

Member
I too read sam biddle's tweets

I actually don't read his tweets nor most of Twitter in general: GAF acts as my filter for the maelstrom that is Twitter. I'm referring to just the microcosm of GAF, because after all those gaming side megathreads about """censorship""" and all the semantics essays I've posted, I feel like throwing some shade on those being egregiously inconsistent-

...

Wait, shit, he's specifically calling out that same crowd - albiet off of GAF - and he made those tweets just an hour ago?! My hot take, superceded!

I guess my principle of "if you can think of something easily, it means someone else has already most likely thought if it" applies to me too, haha. At least I was close in timing, which means I'm just a little bit clever.

Total list of people who make "removing panty shots makes us like North Korea!" arguments and actually buy in those arguments:

Yeah, I mean my heart knew they weren't arguing off of general principles, but my mind demands that I be excessively charitable and that maybe there was a chance. But it seems like that was indeed the case.
 
I've been reading old entries from that blog I linked a while ago (yeah whatever it has a spoof on communist imagery, the dude is a liberal) and I found this article from 2008 pretty interesting in light of Alternative Facts.

These disagreements are common in the political sphere when we have to deal with inherently subjective issues. We can't really debate social welfare policies if we can't agree on the fundamental premise that government should do something to assist the poor. But this isn't a problem. After all, things like social welfare, abortion, gay marriage, and so on are "should" questions. There are no objective answers. Neither you nor I can definitely "prove" that society should or should not help the poor. One faction will make a stronger argument than the other, but that doesn't prove anyone right or wrong. Politics exist to peacefully and productively hash out disagreements about these unanswerable questions.

So here's the problem. Prior to the advent of CNN in the mid-1980s, Americans got broadcast news from exactly three sources: ABC, NBC, and CBS (discounting local or public-access programming). One could argue, and right-wingers have made a multi-billion dollar industry out of doing so, that those three news behemoths were biased. They leaned to the left. I'll accept that premise. They may have had a bias, but everyone was seeing the same news and getting the same sets of facts. That is crucially important. When people disagreed, they disagreed by diverging from a common point. Some people wanted to stay in Vietnam and some wanted to leave, but they had the same basic set of facts about how the war was going and what was happening.

Now we have a bifurcated media and, predictably, a bifurcated public. People do not disagree about Iraq by diverging from a common understanding of the facts. They simply have different versions of reality – different facts about the same events. We do not have a simple disagreement about Staying vs Leaving in Iraq; there is a deep, fundamental, and unbridgeable gap in what different Americans "know" about the war and the run-up thereto. We cannot debate the rightness or wrongness of the invasion if, as surveys show, 30-40% of the public thinks we found WMD and that Sadaam was personally responsible for planning 9/11. A productive debate about right and wrong can only take place in the context of one set of facts. But Americans have self-selected (based on their existing biases) a source of information. There's the NPR/Blogosphere camp with one set of facts and the Fox News/Talk Radio camp with another. In between are the CNN/Big Three Networks camp with a confused porridge of correct and incorrect "facts."

And that's why we'll forever be talking past each other – we've abandoned the idea that there are such things as facts. We've introduced the kind of disagreement I mentioned in the Catholic vs Fratboy example into every area of politics. Everything is treated as subjective. Moral issues are subjective, but many other issues are not. Either Hussein did or did not plan 9/11. It is not possible to say "Well, we'll just have to disagree about that." It is either true or false. Period. Instead we've let lassiez-faire ideology and free-market worship redefine the way we are informed as a society. Each person is a demographic, and each demographic has a news source to tell them exactly what they want to hear and, in most cases, what they already believe to be true.

Not sure how much of this is "new" to the discussion but it's sort of interesting to think of this as a pre-Trump phenomenon.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I've been reading old entries from that blog I linked a while ago (yeah whatever it has a spoof on communist imagery, the dude is a liberal) and I found this article from 2008 pretty interesting in light of Alternative Facts.



Not sure how much of this is "new" to the discussion but it's sort of interesting to think of this as a pre-Trump phenomenon.

You find that impressive for being from 2008? I raise you with MGS2 in 2001!

Colonel : But in the current, digitized world, trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible.
Rose : Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander...
Colonel : All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate.
Rose : It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution.
Colonel : Raiden, you seem to think that our plan is one of censorship.
Raiden : Are you telling me it's not!?
Rose : You're being silly! What we propose to do is not to control content, but to create context.
Raiden : Create context?
Colonel : The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards the development of convenient half-truths. Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.
Rose : Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.
Colonel : Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.
Rose : Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species. Everyone grows up being told the same thing.
Colonel : "Be nice to other people."
Rose : "But beat out the competition!"
Colonel : "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."
Rose : But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...
Colonel : You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.
Rose : Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.
Colonel : The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.
Rose : Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth."
Colonel : And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.
Rose : We're trying to stop that from happening.
Colonel : It's our responsibility as rulers. Just as in genetics, unnecessary information and memory must be filtered out to stimulate the evolution of the species.
 
I like how Trump put his nepotism aside to not appoint his sister to the Supreme Court.

She wouldn't have lasted all that long and not been completely crazy...

And is actually qualified
 
So after Clinton's loss and #hottakes that a women can't be president in this time period we've got like 3 potential women running in 2020? Harris is obvious, seems like CCM is a choice too, and I'm guessing there's something more to Gillibrand not voting for any Trump nominee?
 
You find that impressive for being from 2008? I raise you with MGS2 in 2001!
Man, I really do need to play MGS2 again.

So after Clinton's loss and #hottakes that a women can't be president in this time period we've got like 3 potential women running in 2020? Harris is obvious, seems like CCM is a choice too, and I'm guessing there's something more to Gillibrand not voting for any Trump nominee?
Yo don't count out my Klobuchar/Brown ticket.
 

kirblar

Member
So after Clinton's loss and #hottakes that a women can't be president in this time period we've got like 3 potential women running in 2020? Harris is obvious, seems like CCM is a choice too, and I'm guessing there's something more to Gillibrand not voting for any Trump nominee?
All 3 are pretty clearly setting up runs.
 
So after Clinton's loss and #hottakes that a women can't be president in this time period we've got like 3 potential women running in 2020? Harris is obvious, seems like CCM is a choice too, and I'm guessing there's something more to Gillibrand not voting for any Trump nominee?
She voted for Haley.

It's not about saying whether women should or shouldn't mount runs. I think that there's general agreement they should. It's about recognising systemic and/or ingrained cultural biases that will make their runs harder.
 

daedalius

Member
You find that impressive for being from 2008? I raise you with MGS2 in 2001!

I watched the metal gear rising Drew edition, and god damn is Armstrong a slightly worse trump, smarter anyway.

Also after watching Maddow about the B2 bombers and Trumps idiotic statement about taking the oil, the Middle East is probably just going to get even worse under this dumbass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom