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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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N

nature boy

Member
FIND THE LEAKERS

Trump criticizes House health care bill

The president offered no detailed directives, but pressed for a deal.

President Donald Trump directed Senate Republicans to pass a generous health care bill at a meeting with more than a dozen GOP senators on Tuesday, arguing that the House’s austere health care bill is difficult to defend, according to people familiar with the meeting.

The president also said Republicans risk getting savaged in the 2018 midterms if they fail to repeal Obamacare after a seven-year campaign against the law.

But he made clear that the Senate needs to pass a bill that Republicans are able to more easily defend and is not viewed as an attack on low-income Americans as the House bill has been portrayed by critics, the sources said. He also advocated for more robust tax credits for people who buy insurance on the individual market, a move that would increase the bill’s cost.

Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), who is pushing the Senate to slow the repeal of Medicaid expansion, indicated Trump is concerned about the people who are enrolled in the program for low-income Americans.

“He talked about the need to take care of people,” Portman said of the president.

The gathering included 13 senators of all ideological stripes, from the moderate Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska to the conservative Sens. Mike Lee of Utah and Ted Cruz of Texas. The meeting left some Republicans on Capitol Hill with the impression that Trump is siding with more moderate Republicans, particularly when it comes to winding down Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion, which brought insurance coverage to millions of people.

Trump has told associates that the news media coverage of the House health care bill was "terrible," in the words of one associate who has spoken to him.

Conservatives want to wind down the expansion quickly and curtail future Medicaid spending, while more centrist senators are trying to preserve as much coverage as possible. Republicans said Trump spent a significant portion of the meeting observing senators disagreeing over the matter.

Sen. Lisa Murkowski, who like Portman is from a state that expanded Medicaid, said she made it clear to the president that she is concerned about repealing the expansion.

“I reinforced that I think Medicaid expansion has been very important to the state of Alaska,” she said.

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa,), who is arguing to constrain future Medicaid spending to a lower rate than the House bill, said that finding the sweet spot “remains a challenge.”

“It feels like we’re making a little bit of a progress. It’s slow, but it was always going to be a tough slog,” said Toomey, who attended the meeting.

A White House official said Trump did not take a firm position on Medicaid, which is the subject of much deliberation within the Senate Republican Conference. Seema Verma, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, attended both the White House meeting and a subsequent GOP lunch on health care, playing point for the administration on the matter.

And rather than instructing senators to meet with hard deadlines, Trump urged Republicans to have a more orderly process than the chaotic House. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is trying to vote this month, though it may slip until June due to ideological disagreements and the difficulty of drafting such a complex bill.

The president asked Republicans to set aside their vast policy differences and find consensus.

“The message really was, I know you have your differences but work through them and let's figure out a way to get it done,” said Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.). “We have to get a product.”

"He wants us to pass this bill and improve this House bill,” Senate Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch told reporters.

Republican senators believe it will be at least a week before a coherent blueprint emerges for the GOP to chew over. Leaders are still going back and forth with the Congressional Budget Office to lay out options for Medicaid and tax credits and how much each option would cost.
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W

whyamihere

Banned
@leedrutman
Obama -> Trump voters look like Republicans on race and immigration issues, but like Democrats on economic issues https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond
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DCOOT_DUAAEjm0V.jpg
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
As a first step to open borders we should create a new Anglospheric Union like the EU.

This is marginally more plausible than a North American Union

America's population is just too goddamn big for any sort of non-global supranational structure but I want open borders with Canada dammit
 
E

Ernest

Banned
Didn't really catch i so I don't know, but was the Sessions testimony nothing, or something, or can it at least lead to something?

I'm fucking tired of "nothing's gonna happen", when we all know full well something should!
 
A

Autodidact

Banned
What if he vetoed it? They'd be angry, and we know they wouldn't have the numbers to override it.

It won't happen because the tears would be too delicious.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
AntraxSuicide said:
This position holds that countries should leave people to poverty, starvation, or even death because our social services are for us only.

The open borders position starts with the question, "what's the difference between an American human and a non-American human?"

The answer is nothing at all.

Though I agree this means a more international world instead of a national one. I think opening borders spurs that on. Pigeon is right that it's not super popular but I agree that a clause like "kill someone and you're out" would help.
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I agree with this, but without either global governance or binding international cooperation, it becomes a policy of 1-2 states absorbing the problems of other countries in times of strife, whereas the species, collectively, could divert resources to dull the impact of mass migrations.
 
N

nature boy

Member
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/13/trump-travel-ban-supreme-court-appeal-239512

The Trump administration will request more time to prepare its arguments for the Supreme Court to consider the president’s travel ban, according to a letter sent to the high court Tuesday.

The Justice Department proposed a change to the expected briefing schedule to allow it to formulate a response to an opinion issued Monday by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. DOJ's maneuver risks delaying Supreme Court consideration of the case until October, inviting administration critics to question whether the sense of urgency that inspired Trump's travel ban is shared by the lawyers who are defending it.

In a unanimous decision, a three-judge panel for the 9th Circuit chose to leave in place a lower court’s injunction against the policy, which temporarily bans visas for travelers from six majority-Muslim countries and suspends the refugee resettlement program. The 9th Circuit’s move follows a decision in May by the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, which also let stand an injunction against the travel ban.
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#somuchwinning
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
So Trump said the bill was "mean" but also keeps going forward with the ludicrous idea that republicans will be destroyed in 2018 if "they do not repeal Obamacare."

I am dumbfounded they are clinging to this belief. It makes absolutely no sense. All polling shows it is a ridiculous stance to take.
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Plinko said:
So Trump said the bill was "mean" but also keeps going forward with the ludicrous idea that republicans will be destroyed in 2018 if "they do not repeal Obamacare."

I am dumbfounded they are clinging to this belief. It makes absolutely no sense. All polling shows it is a ridiculous stance to take.
Click to expand...

Fake polls, everyone loves me and thinks im smart and handsome.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Plinko said:
So Trump said the bill was "mean" but also keeps going forward with the ludicrous idea that republicans will be destroyed in 2018 if "they do not repeal Obamacare."

I am dumbfounded they are clinging to this belief. It makes absolutely no sense. All polling shows it is a ridiculous stance to take.
Click to expand...

It's a matter of hoping their base stays energized if they keep their promise and their election advantaging policies stay in place until then, and that anger won't materialize because of some of the shitty stuff being delayed.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Basically, there are lots of racists who voted for Obama because they thought Rmoney would take their Medicare and Social Security but they voted for Trump because they thought Trump wouldn't take their Medicare or Social Security.

Basically, these are the voters that are racist, but often decide that their own financial situation is more important (unlike poor whites in the Deep South that would die to take away Medicaid from black people).
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Plinko said:
So Trump said the bill was "mean" but also keeps going forward with the ludicrous idea that republicans will be destroyed in 2018 if "they do not repeal Obamacare."

I am dumbfounded they are clinging to this belief. It makes absolutely no sense. All polling shows it is a ridiculous stance to take.
Click to expand...

Have there been any public polls of what would happen to them come primary season if they fail to pass it? Because there is this scenario:

-Fail to pass Repeal/Replace
-Base rebels
-Base primaries large swaths of Republicans
-House & Senate Republican majority loses incumbency advantage
-House & Senate Republicans suffer devastating losses due to pendulum effect + lost incumbency
-D control of government for decade+

If this is what their polling is telling them could happen, their behavior does start to make more sense.

Still horrifying (take the L over this abomination, jesus Christ), but at least not wholly irrational.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Kevinroc said:
Oh my god...

What if- and I know this is a long shot- but what if he vetoes this bill?
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Doubt he vetoes anything that ends up at his desk, but this probably throws a wrench into the Senate negotiations.

How funny would it be if Trump is the only one with enough political acumen to know this bill is political suicide?
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Kevinroc said:
Oh my god...

What if- and I know this is a long shot- but what if he vetoes this bill?
Click to expand...

I... don't know. He gets a hell of a lot more popular personally, that's for sure.

I mean, he won't do it. He's an easily manipulated mean-spirited halfwit. But... I don't know, he's also CRAZY. So maybe he'll do it!
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Poodlestrike said:
I... don't know. He gets a hell of a lot more popular personally, that's for sure.

I mean, he won't do it. He's an easily manipulated mean-spirited halfwit. But... I don't know, he's also CRAZY. So maybe he'll do it!
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Yeah. I wouldn't count on it, but it's something that could actually increase his popularity and saying he wants to make sure the bill is good before it ends up getting passed.

Please ignore all other statements relating to bill.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Bonen no Max'd said:
As a first step to open borders we should create a new Anglospheric Union like the EU.

This is marginally more plausible than a North American Union

America's population is just too goddamn big for any sort of non-global supranational structure but I want open borders with Canada dammit
Click to expand...

It's a really good idea. Basically, like, a "hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders." Man, what a great concept! Whoever came up with that is a great socialist. Way more socialist than a guy who called open borders a conservative plot!

i don't even know why I'm trolling you right now
 
O

Owzers

Member
Everything is a lie, they will declare the senate bill to be the "nice" one even after the cbo says it will still drop 20 million.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Dubbedinenglish said:
I'm very confused right now
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Trump has never read the bill and does not understand it. All he knows is what he sees on television.

When he was desperate for some kind of accomplishment in his first 100 days he was willing to make any compromise and to applaud and celebrate any bill.

Now he's starting to realize that the news reports on the bill are terrible and it's very unpopular, so he wants to distance himself from it. Since the GOP is unwilling to defend it, there are no spin stories out there to convince him that the bill is actually good.

The fact that it's the same bill is utterly meaningless to him, because Trump lacks the concept of ideological consistency.

Honestly I feel like I should've seen this coming.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Box of Kittens said:
Likewise, the point about the Democratic message being confused/convoluted is salient. I think there are a variety of reasons for that. Part of it is the lingering effects of the Reagan era (and more generally losing 5 of 6 presidential elections, often in blowouts, going back to Nixon). Democrats were left with a sense that there is a conservative consensus in the country and they had to work their policies into that framework to make them palatable to voters. That may or may not have been true in 1992, but I think in general the party should recognize that it isn't 1992 any more and we don't need to play the game on Republican terms. I think there can also be a sense of what certain blocs of voters want (such as professionals) that aren't necessarily correct. We should be careful about applying lessons from elections in one country to another, but it is worth noting that in the UK Labour moved to a more unapologetically left position and made major gains among more educated voters. Again, this was a major issue with the Clinton campaign. There was no simple answer to the question "what is your vision for the middle class?" There was a mishmash of policies (many of which were good) but again it all came across as muddled and focus grouped.
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See this is where...I dunno. Its not 1992 anymore. But how far are we from 2010 when the ACA caused half this country to lose its fucking mind and kick the Dems out of congressional power for coming up on eight years? Or, to put it another way; I would not be surprised if we win in 2018 and 2020 and lose the house in 2022 when whatever progressive stuff we manage to get through spurs yet another frothing backlash
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Doubt he vetoes anything that ends up at his desk, but this probably throws a wrench into the Senate negotiations.

How funny would it be if Trump is the only one with enough political acumen to know this bill is political suicide?
Click to expand...

We know Trump doesn't get optics in the slightest, he just doesn't like the heat that's coming from the picture-box about this law.

So he's smarter than the Congressional GOP in that he understands that a bunch of people badmouthing the bill might mean that it's a bad bill.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
The Technomancer said:
See this is where...I dunno. Its not 1992 anymore. But how far are we from 2010 when the ACA caused half this country to lose its fucking mind and kick the Dems out of congressional power for coming up on eight years? Or, to put it another way; I would not be surprised if we win in 2018 and 2020 and lose the house in 2022 when whatever progressive stuff we manage to get through spurs yet another frothing backlash
Click to expand...
I agree with this, we need to brace for a big loss in 2022 should 2018/2020 go well for us.

We need to go balls out with progressive legislation should we be lucky enough to get a Dem trifecta again. If it means we have to nuke the filibuster then oh well. It's a new ballgame.

Something that might insulate us from too heavy of losses would be new maps in 2022 and the Senate map that year actually being decent for Democrats, but we need to get out there with a robust jobs plan, healthcare and college for everyone, and goddammit some way to turn our base out in midterm years.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
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