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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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T

tedrotheredro

Member
BoogieWoogie said:
Does anyone else find it weird that we have no idea where the heck Flynn and Manafort are?
Click to expand...

I just assume they're cooperating witnesses and then it makes perfect sense.

I find the multiple sudden deaths, from the Russian ambassadors to Peter Smith to Oleg Erovinkin, to be more weird. But I'm trying to keep my tinfoil hat in the closet.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Could've sworn Manchin said in that very same article that he was supporting a compromise w/ Patty Murray to raise the minimum wage to $15. May have been a different article.

*but staggered over such a long period of time, it's basically just $12 + inflation

We might as well just go for something like that because $15 is a completely arbitrary, round number. I suspect it's akin to free college; good for the self-interested constituencies pushing it, but could also come with a wider political blowback. (Unlike, say, single payer - which you can credibly push as for the collective good).
 
K

kirblar

Member
jtb said:
Could've sworn Manchin said in that very same article that he was supporting a compromise w/ Patty Murray to raise the minimum wage to $15. May have been a different article.

*but staggered over such a long period of time, it's basically just $12 + inflation

We might as well just go for something like that because $15 is a completely arbitrary, round number. I suspect it's akin to free college; good for the self-interested constituencies pushing it, but could also come with a wider political blowback. (Unlike, say, single payer - which you can credibly push as for the collective good).
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Brookings had a good article on how free tuition ended up getting walked back in the UK.
 
M

Mac_Lane

Member
428e51f7d0b745eb0a112d0a491cfb5219f12868.jpg


This is amazing. So much for smiling, turtle.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
Mac_Lane said:
428e51f7d0b745eb0a112d0a491cfb5219f12868.jpg


This is amazing. So much for smiling, turtle.
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Maybe don't spend 7 years painting yourselves into a corner about a bill that that was fundamentally based on Republican ideas when the party was more sane? I mean, the egg on your face won't be quite so bad if that was the case.

I still love how reaching across the aisle for a solution is like the nuclear option in Mitch's mind.

Toomey partly attributed some of the GOP's problems to Trump's surprise victory last November.

”I didn't expect Donald Trump to win, I think most of my colleagues didn't, so we didn't expect to be in this situation," he said.
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Oh fuck you, Toomey. Worthless bag of shit. 7 FUCKING YEARS your party had.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Toomey partly attributed some of the GOP’s problems to Trump’s surprise victory last November.

“I didn’t expect Donald Trump to win, I think most of my colleagues didn’t, so we didn’t expect to be in this situation,” he said.
Click to expand...

You caught the fucking car, you dumb dog.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Greigor The Fellhand said:
so the only thing really getting passed right now are executive orders, which will then be stopped by the courts?
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And could all be undone by another president.

Eat shit, turtleface. He and Ryan are exactly alike - two shit-for-brains conservatives propped up by the media as Very Serious because the alternative is people like Cruz or Palin who don't hide their craziness as well.

And can we just talk about Trump? He is an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing, doesn't understand what his proposals do or are supposed to do, and can't make a good deal (or even A deal) to save his life. If there is one silver lining to come from the Trump administration it's to expose how much of a fucking sham the Republican Party is.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Jessie Opoien‏Verified account
@jessieopie
.@SenatorBaldwin on single-payer support: "I'll look @ the bill when it comes in but I anticipate I will. It's been a long position of mine"
DEEQE7WXsAA9ATH.jpg
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hell yeah always support your lesbians from the lakes
 
P

PBY

Banned
kirblar said:
Should they run on $100/hr?

2000?

At what point to you admit that raising the wage past a certain threshold has more than minor drawbacks?
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15 is fine. At some point you can't hedge everything. That's what the D's have done and its just gotten us L after L after L.
 
B

Barzul

Member
Mac_Lane said:
428e51f7d0b745eb0a112d0a491cfb5219f12868.jpg


This is amazing. So much for smiling, turtle.
Click to expand...

Had a feeling we would get back here again. Short term stability. 2018 will be a turning point. If Democrats don't put up solid wins, then expect the Republicans to just ram through a bill and just take their chances in 2020.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
tuxfool said:
Maybe I should point out that conceding that they may not be able to repeal it doesn't mean that they won't keep trying.
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Oh no doubt. But I hope publicly conceding you might not be able to do the one thing you promised and campaigned when you control the whole govt buries the idea that he's good at his job.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Macho Madness said:
If the Democrats can't run on $15 an hour then they are fucking worthless. So of course they won't.
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They're already running on 15/hr. It was in their platform last year. Pelosi set it as a part of her first 100 hours agenda. Schumer wants it too.

I don't get how this kind of shit-posting is productive when it's not even true.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Box of Kittens said:
The Illinois House of Representatives just overrode Governor Rauner's budget vetoes, giving the state its first budget in over two years.
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Did that get any Republican votes?

Aaron Strife said:
They're already running on 15/hr. It was in their platform last year. Pelosi set it as a part of her first 100 hours agenda. Schumer wants it too.

I don't get how this kind of shit-posting is productive when it's not even true.
Click to expand...

and besides, saying you want 15 gives you room to have good-faith negotiations.

with something like:
"States will be able to opt-out, if their median income is < x"
or
"States can opt-out to a median or other formula driven option"
or
"States can opt-out, but cities can choose their own"

I still prefer $12
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
benicillin said:
Oh no doubt. But I hope publicly conceding you might not be able to do the one thing you promised and campaigned when you control the whole govt buries the idea that he's good at his job.
Click to expand...

IF they do manage to do it, then this move will be heralded as a work of genius. Not that it is, but the press loves these nonsense narratives.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
71 votes were needed to override Rauner's budget vetoes.

The revenue veto was overridden 71-42. Ten Republicans voted to override.

The bill was initially passed with 72 total votes, 15 Republican. Four R's flipped and one was absent. Four Democrats flipped from no to yes (presumably they had initially voted no with permission from Speaker Madigan but it was understood they would vote yes on the override if they were needed). My guess is the R's flipped not to kill the budget but rather to force vulnerable D's to vote for a tax increase.

Looks like the spending veto was overridden with 74 votes, but I did see one source claim 75.

Either way: Fuck you, Bruce Rauner.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Suikoguy said:
Did that get any Republican votes?



and besides, saying you want 15 gives you room to have good-faith negotiations.

with something like:
"States will be able to opt-out, if their median income is < x"
or
"States can opt-out to a median or other formula driven option"
or
"States can opt-out, but cities can choose their own"

I still prefer $12
Click to expand...

GOP: "The Democrat Party wants to let States opt out of minimum wage requirements, but don't want to give States the freedom to opt out of health insurance requirements and Medicaid. Why does the Democrat Party hate freedom?"
 
P

PBY

Banned
teiresias said:
GOP: "The Democrat Party wants to let States opt out of minimum wage requirements, but don't want to give States the freedom to opt out of health insurance requirements and Medicaid. Why does the Democrat Party hate freedom?"
Click to expand...

"The GOP wants to kill people and not pay people a living wage. "

The D's have to pick what they think works and control their own message. This is what I'm talking about when I say the party always walks towards the center while the Rs keep pushing to the right.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
teiresias said:
GOP: "The Democrat Party wants to let States opt out of minimum wage requirements, but don't want to give States the freedom to opt out of health insurance requirements and Medicaid. Why does the Democrat Party hate freedom?"
Click to expand...

It's 2017 and we really can't care about what the republicans say anymore because they're going to say it anyway.
 
K

kirblar

Member
PBY said:
"The GOP wants to kill people and not pay people a living wage. "

The D's have to pick what they think works and control their own message. This is what I'm talking about when I say the party always walks towards the center while the Rs keep pushing to the right.
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The center has moved very far left!
 
P

PBY

Banned
kirblar said:
Where it was 15 years ago! 10!

Compare the US to the US not to Europe
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This is the shit I'm talking about.

"We're better than we were 15 years ago, hell yeah"

As if every other country isn't also moving left and the rest of the world laps us. That is meaningless, why can't we compare ourselves against the world? We're still debating about whether healthcare is a basic right, but we've moved "so far left"? Come on man.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Ten years ago getting the minimum wage raised to $7.25 was an accomplishment, now we're talking about $15

Gay marriage was being defeated at ballot boxes everywhere including deep blue states like California, now it's legal in all 50 states

A year ago Republicans were running on repeal and replace Obamacare and now they admit they can't do it

Republicans haven't moved shit to the right. Just because we didn't turn into Sweden overnight doesn't mean progress isn't happening. It's not like those 46% that voted for McCain went anywhere.
 
G

Grexeno

Member
PBY said:
This is the shit I'm talking about.

"We're better than we were 15 years ago, hell yeah"

As if every other country isn't also moving left and the rest of the world laps us. That is meaningless, why can't we compare ourselves against the world? We're still debating about whether healthcare is a basic right, but we've moved "so far left"? Come on man.
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Because the rest of the world can't vote in our elections.
 
A

Autodidact

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Ten years ago getting the minimum wage raised to $7.25 was an accomplishment, now we're talking about $15

Gay marriage was being defeated at ballot boxes everywhere including deep blue states like California, now it's legal in all 50 states

A year ago Republicans were running on repeal and replace Obamacare and now they admit they can't do it

Republicans haven't moved shit to the right. Just because we didn't turn into Sweden overnight doesn't mean progress isn't happening. It's not like those 46% that voted for McCain went anywhere.
Click to expand...

something something neoliberal

something something "Democrats want the 1% to be diverse!"
 
K

kirblar

Member
PBY said:
We've discussed this. You carve out areas that it won't work in. But some of yall are hell bent on not changing anything. And the party will keep losing, the message has to be bold and sweeping.
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This does not work. You can't micro-manage from that level. You are setting a baseline. Nothing more. Let federalism do the rest.
PBY said:
This is the shit I'm talking about.

"We're better than we were 15 years ago, hell yeah"

As if every other country isn't also moving left and the rest of the world laps us. That is meaningless, why can't we compare ourselves against the world? We're still debating about whether healthcare is a basic right, but we've moved "so far left"? Come on man.
Click to expand...
No other fucking country in the world evolved into the stupid employer-sponsored Healthcare setup because most other countries in the world didn't put wage caps in place (that exempted benefits) during WWII!

The ACA was a gigantic step lefward (when we couldn't get a public option through the Senate) but the next time we get a DDD eclipse the fillibuster dies and the public option will go in easily.

How old are you? Because you seem to be incredibly unaware of how party cycles typically ebb and flow in this country. Where your feelings tell you Trump is a "historic" defeat (even though it was by a hair in the EC , we won the popular vote by a significant margin, and gained House/Senate seats) Democrats have won the popular vote in the past 4/5 presidential elections, and the EC robbed us of two of those victories! RRR->RDD->DDD->DRR->RRR is the normal cycle of politics in this country. History doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
The ACA isn't out of the woods yet but it seems clear to me that it pushed the conversation of the role of government in healthcare pretty far to the left than it was 8 years ago. So far left that single-payer, which still has hurdles to cross to be fair, is now a realistic conversation to have. If we are going to have an honest conversation about where we are headed as a country and what the Democrats need to do next, we have to at least acknowledge where we have moved in the past decade.

As an aside, I'm amused that the media seems to have a "frowny face" image for pretty much every politician that they can spam when things don't go their way. It's hilarious :p
 
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