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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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B

Blader

Member
PBY said:
They did interfere, however, to what extent their influence affected the outcome is unclear. That is reported, documented fact. Not sure how you can dispute this?

As to your question, those sanctions are apparently too weak if Russia continues to hack other nations and we're still very concerned about our future elections. Accordingly, if they're not solving the problem, why not negotiate these to save thousands of lives in Syria.

While I would be wary of this outcome, if the above doesn't work, you can always reinstate these sanctions and make them more stringent.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.
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If the sanctions are not solving the problem, then you make the sanctions tougher. Or you launch a military strike. What you don't do is ignore the problem by doing fucking nothing because then Russia knows for sure there will be no repercussions for trying again next year and in 2020.

(note: I do not want us to militarily strike Russia. But there is no third option that isn't military strike or sanctions.)

You're being incredibly naive if you think Trump will ever reinstate any Russian sanctions, let alone sanctions over election interference that he doesn't believe even happened.

RumbleHumble said:
In the meantime, apparently Trump wants to set up a joint US/Russia Cybersecurity team...

https://twitter.com/Lucian_Kim/status/883376519942463489
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This will send the IC into freak out mode.
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
Owzers said:
Trump better hope there aren't tapes of the meeting.
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That would be AMAZING!!! In fact I'll be shocked if CIA at least didn't try to spy on this. There's no way intelligence community trusts Trump. (as for Putin, he probably wore a wire anyway, so I'm sure FSB/KGB knows what happened).
 
D

Daria

Member
Resident_UA said:
That would be AMAZING!!! In fact I'll be shocked if CIA at least didn't try to spy on this. There's no way intelligence community trusts Trump. (as for Putin, he probably wore a wire anyway, so I'm sure FSB/KGB knows what happened).
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Well, they had an additional 1.5 hours to sneak into their 30 minute meeting
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
This is GOOD.

https://www.rosenfornevada.com

As the first in my family to graduate from college, and a computer programmer in a male-dominated industry, I climbed a ladder forged by generations of Americans who worked hard to give me those opportunities. Now I believe it’s our responsibility to strengthen that ladder for our children.

President Trump is trying to pull up the ladder behind him, leaving the middle class stranded while his super-wealthy buddies turn the federal government into a source of enrichment for themselves. Trump ridicules women, people of color, the LGBTQ community, immigrant families, and anyone who challenges him.

With a majority of just two in the Senate, President Trump couldn’t possibly succeed with his hateful far-right agenda without the support of Senator Dean Heller. But instead of standing up to Donald Trump and demanding bipartisan cooperation for the good of the country, Senator Heller supported Trump’s agenda 100% of the time in his first 100 days and has never once spoken out against him on the Senate floor.

I understand the frustration Nevadans feel towards Washington, and that’s why I’m running for Senate – to fight for the families I talk to every day that have been left behind. Nevadans deserve a Senator they can trust to be an independent voice standing up to President Trump, not his enabler. Donald Trump and Dean Heller are working together to rig the economy and the federal government for the super-wealthy at the expense of people who have to work for a living.

I’m running for the U.S. Senate because we have to stop them. We have to protect Social Security and Medicare for the next generation. We have to make health care affordable for every American – period. We have to improve our schools, because today a good job comes from a good education. And we have to lead the way on renewable energy, so we can grow our economy, create good-paying jobs, and secure our energy future.

This Senate seat couldn’t be more important – already this year, Senator Heller has been a deciding vote to confirm President Trump’s deeply unqualified Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, to allow states to defund Planned Parenthood clinics, and to let internet providers sell your data to the highest bidder without your consent. And for years, Senator Heller has been voting over and over again to slash Medicaid funding and repeal the Affordable Care Act instead of working to fix it. Our voices are not being represented.

What drew me to computer programming all those years ago was the ability to see a problem, work together, and find smart solutions. We can find smart solutions in Washington, too, but only if we stand up to Donald Trump’s hatred, bigotry, and narcissism. Please join my campaign, and together we’ll do it.

- Jacky Rosen
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R

Resident_UA

Member
I think Putin might have been thrown off guard by how stupid Trump is. :) I mean everything coming out of this meeting feels random and not thought out. That's definitely not Putin's MO.

In my head Trump just gave Putin an hour and a half speech that he typically delivers during the rallies (basically rambling about random topics). It made absolutely no sense to Putin so in the last 5 minutes he just showed Trump a list of items that they "agree" on.
 
H

Holmes

Member
I got a job interview on Tuesday for an internstional biotech company and the recruiter on the phone really wanted me!!! Guys I am freaking out
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
RumbleHumble said:
Tillerson's all: "OH SHIT, TRUMP'S IN TOO DEEP", sending in FLOTUS and forgetting she loathes her husband.
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Melania:

stop_dont_come_back_willy_wonka.gif
 
L

Lo-Volt

Member
Trump must have been delivering a lengthy report to Moscow Centre. This is beginning to read like a giveaway.

Kusagari said:
Wouldn't Melania not have the clearance to be in that meeting to begin with?
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Was that the point maybe? Basically compel the meeting to break up by putting someone unauthorized in there to make them hit the brakes?
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
PBY said:
Where has that been reported anywhere? Where have I said that I'm okay with this in exchange for the ceasefire? Jesus christ.
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Not to put too fine a point on it but the general thrust of your argument is that you didn't really buy that Russian interference played a major part in our election and were fine with letting that slide in exchange for a ceasefire*. This is the extension of "letting that slide."

*That Putin has no intention of keeping.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Poodlestrike said:
Not to put too fine a point on it but the general thrust of your argument is that you didn't really buy that Russian interference played a major part in our election and were fine with letting that slide in exchange for a ceasefire*. This is the extension of "letting that slide."

*That Putin has no intention of keeping.
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Okay, if this is the framing, then I'm not okay with this/I disagree with this outcome.
 
C

Chococat

Member
PBY said:
For the record - ive never said sanctions are worthless. This only started bc I said i would accept a scaling back of the hacking sanctions if it meant a real ceasefire.
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Why do you seem to only care about Syria people, but not those in the Ukraine?

The sanctions are to punish Russia for invading the Ukraine.

Further sanctions were for Russia interfering in US elections.

Neither have anything to do with the separate issue of the cluster fuck in Syria, which Russia does not have full control over. Appeasing Russia to get them to agree to a ceasefire Syria does nothing to stop the other half a dozen factions still fighting for x, y, and z.

A ceasefire is meaningless when there is no agreement as to how to restore order to the region. Ceasefires are broken all the time. Why give up sanctions for something as fleeting as a cease fire?

Meanwhile, nothing is being done about Russia hacking in France. Nothing has been resolved with Russia hacking in America, with the latest targeting out power grids. Russia still illegally holds Crimea and is fighting with Ukraine. Sanctions are the peaceful way to try to bring people to the table. The next step is either boots on the ground or let Russia do what ever it wants with the Ukraine. We all saw how well appeasement worked in WWII.

So why are you will to throw away Ukrainian lives and sovereignty to appease Russia over Syria by lifting the sanctions for a cease fire?
 
P

PBY

Banned
Chococat said:
Why do you seem to only care about Syria people, but not those in the Ukraine?

The sanctions are to punish Russia for invading the Ukraine.

Further sanctions were for Russia interfering in US elections.

Neither have anything to do with the separate issue of the cluster fuck in Syria, which Russia does not have full control over. Appeasing Russia to get them to agree to a ceasefire Syria does nothing to stop the other half a dozen factions still fighting for x, y, and z.

A ceasefire is meaningless when there is no agreement as to how to restore order to the region. Ceasefires are broken all the time. Why give up sanctions for something as fleeting as a cease fire?

Meanwhile, nothing is being done about Russia hacking in France. Nothing has been resolved with Russia hacking in America, with the latest targeting out power grids. Russia still illegally holds Crimea and is fighting with Ukraine. Sanctions are the peaceful way to try to bring people to the table. The next step is either boots on the ground or let Russia do what ever it wants with the Ukraine. We all saw how well appeasement worked in WWII.

So why are you will to throw away Ukrainian lives and sovereignty to appease Russia over Syria by lifting the sanctions for a cease fire?
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I've actually made this point clearly above - those are distinct sanctions targeting different issues. The 2014-now sanctions re Ukraine along w/ the EU and other allies shouldn't be removed.

The hacking ones, which to me seem ill-equipped to fix the hacking issue, I personally feel okay negotiating these in connection with a cease fire. I think that if the cease fire ends, then other corrective actions can be taken.

I really get annoyed by the OPPO DROPPO calls and the rumor mill around the Russia investigation, and sometimes I do worry about proxy wars and escalation, but I don't think that the above is an unreasonable position.
 
R

royalan

Member
PBY said:
I've actually made this point clearly above - those are distinct sanctions targeting different issues. The 2014-now sanctions re Ukraine along w/ the EU and other allies shouldn't be removed.

The hacking ones, which to me seem ill-equipped to fix the hacking issue, I personally feel okay negotiating these in connection with a cease fire. I think that if the cease fire ends, then other corrective actions can be taken.

I really get annoyed by the OPPO DROPPO calls and the rumor mill around the Russia investigation, and sometimes I do worry about proxy wars and escalation, but I don't think that the above is an unreasonable position.
Click to expand...

But that doesn't really make sense.

Russia hacks our election. Our intelligence community, in conjunction with the intelligence communities of other countries, confirm this.

We sanction them.

Why is it ok to barter with THOSE sanctions? Do people not realize how serious what Russia did is? Barter with these sanctions and you give Russia explicit permission to continue hacking our infrastructure and it'll be ok, as long as the agree to some bullshit and completely unrelated concession somewhere down the line.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
CrimzonSamurai said:
And while most governments established after proxy wars suck South Korea is that rare exception where it turned out to both be a decent independent government that is way better than the visible alternative.
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I remember things suddenly and sporadically because alcohol abuse has negatively affected my brain.

This is because South Korea is one of the few states that didn't let itself be raped and pillaged by foreign powers during the cold war (might have had something to do with being raped, pillaged, and enslaved for thousands of years). They minimized foreign investment to keep the wealth inside of its borders instead of bleeding to American and European corporations. And America was alright with this because it meant having a foothold on the Asian continent and containing Chinese communism.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

BlastProcessing said:
That's not nice to PBY and it's not nice to people with schizophrenia.
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Ok, sorry.
 
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